Writing Porn vs Writing Erotica

I like to think I write erotica - if it's defined as slow burn, character driven, moments in time, yes, that's me. I've even written what I call "erotica with a social conscience" - my best received story cycle reminds us that people with disabilities don't stop being sexual beings.

I don't know how to write stroke stories, but reader comments tell me that my writing gets women wet and makes their toes tingle - "Omigosh! Exquisite. I needed this. Again!"; and men hard - "VERY effective. My response is... considerable!"

So something works. Maybe it is porn, I don't know.

I am in agreement with you and I think you're right that people should get more just titillation from your writing. I have been writing short stories. plays and poems but wanted to try my pen at erotica, not pornographic writing. When I upload my first story I'm going to make sure that it has a nice style and flow, that the characters have a feeling of reality about them and (because I want to write a series based on my character Pixie) like them and enjoy reading them. Of course I want readers to bit a little aroused by them but that is not the be all and end all of the stories I will write. I put a post up the forum about my character and would appreciate your thoughts and advice on that (here's my link: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1379544) if I may. I am really keen to get started and look forward to people reading them and enjoying them. But I won't just rush any rubbish out. I must give some of your stories a read for inspiration, the chat rooms didn't give me that!

To paraphrase Neil Gaiman: "Erotica" is to "porn" as "lady of the evening" is to "prostitute."

Does it matter? I don't think so. I find that how ever one tries to differentiate between the two it doesn't work. So many people have so many definitions. I don't think dialogue is the difference. Basically, the writer tries to give the reader an experience. If the reader doesn't like the experience it is porn( if it contains sexual matter.) If the reader likes the experience it is erotic( if it contains sexual matter). Some times "porn" is better to read than what can be miserable erotica.

Any way, don't porns belong on chess boards?

SusanJillParker said:

I've never written a story that doesn't have plot, tension, character development, description, imagery, and dialogue, ingredients that are lacking from most porn stories. Yet, from my observations, those who write porn are better rewarded on this site.

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Hello, friend. I know how you feel.
The only good thing I can say is that it's a free site so you can do whatever you like. And, people aren't always that shallow. Everyone needs a bit of both, so we need both kinds of stories- or authors.

Porn? Erotica?

No matter what we write, the decision on whether it is porn or erotica is the reader's.

For some, everything sexual is porn. For others, anything that isn't in-your-face sex is erotica. For a few, our stories are neither.

I don't think I write either porn or erotica as such...

The reason I write here is because I can't believe how badly most of the mainstream culture, be it television, books, or films, has utterly failed to be honest and authentic about the people of today's world.

I only write here because the format gives me adequate latitude to write 'ordinary/normal' stories (for me normal, anyway!) using something like the intellectual idiom of the wider world of human beings as they actually are today.

There is a difference, in my mind, between the Booker Prize winner employing 'realism' via a string of obscenities in some dialogue, or gratuitous and very forced attempts at including or introducing some element of real-world 'sex' - and even then they seem to ABSOLUTELY HAVE to talk about 'sexuality' and academia fad issues like gender or whatever - and the intellectual higher ground of an advancing human culture that necessarily contains what the most intelligent people have acquired in terms of having learned more erotic skills, technical capacities, and richer sexual interactions.

A lot of what passes for current literature is artificial, and indeed somewhat false.

I never talk down to readers. What they get from me is what I hear and what I talk about where live every day. Even though I go to mostly the same places that you do or that you might, like you, I also have my own closer, that is, intimate circles too that are more opaque to the open world than that just any bystander might perceive was there at first look. But there's nothing in the world of written narrative or film and television that reflects my own personally experienced intimate world - which is not a world of dumbed-down air-blown pretend vanilla at all, and I write to do something about that imbalance.

I don't want people to make mistakes about what is out there; I am out there.

My stories are about a different understanding of the human being, the material condition, and what lies behind the surface of things. What lies behind things includes sex. Always. Sex is power. Sex is an education beyond what you will ever be able to receive at Harvard or Princeton not for any money. Sex is a philosophy. Sex is how the human mind thinks... Everybody has a message to deliver about how they individually see sex.

Unlike politics though, here you can vote for the biggest or the nastiest or the cleverest cunt with great confidence.

I like the slow development and the challenge of erotica. When you write, you can create anyone you want and challenge yourself to sell that character as sexually desirable. It sounds shallow because it kind of is -- I'm assuming everyone agrees that our first responsibility as storytellers of any stripe is to tell a good story, so I have no desire to go over that. But speaking strictly from an erotic perspective, things get interesting once you realize that you're not held back by the uniform standards of pornographic beauty, nor are you boxed in by the demands of a visual medium. That puts you in a unique position to sexualize anyone, and you can use qualities beyond a character's physical description -- thoughts, feelings, personality -- to do so. That can give a sense of agency to people who are not used to being seen as sexual beings; that's not to say that people have to feel like sexual beings in order to feel fulfilled, but it's certainly not a bad thing to expand our horizons beyond young big-tittied women and tall, dark, mysterious white men. The magic of erotica (as fucking ridiculous as the phrase sounds) can facilitate that.

Now, having said as much...

When I think of erotica, I think of melodrama, flowery prose, romance, and anything outside of vanilla sex to mutual, internal orgasm being treated as scandalous, regardless of whether or not the characters are into it. This is all probably an error in my thinking as opposed to a legitimate characterization of erotica -- and don't get me wrong, I think that has a place too. However, I'm personally turned on by the casual vulgarity of porn. So I try to have it both ways; I tend to build things up, develop unique characters, try to get the reader excited about the prospect of them getting it on. But then I go full pornographic for the payoff; direct prose, lots of activity that wouldn't necessarily fall under "passionate lovemaking," and not necessarily leading to love.

I care about my characters too much to write them into blatant text-porn.

SusanJillParker said:

I've never written a story that doesn't have plot, tension, character development, description, imagery, and dialogue, ingredients that are lacking from most porn stories. Yet, from my observations, those who write porn are better rewarded on this site.

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Perhaps you're being too hard on yourself?

SusanJillParker said:

I charge $150 for a 6,000 to 8,000 word story, about 16 to 24 Word for Windows pages or 2 to 3 Literotica pages.

When I first started writing stories, I was charging $300 and getting it. For the sake of more volume, I cut my price in half.

To create, develop, write, edit, rewrite, and reedit a story takes about 75 to 90 hours. At that rate, I'm lucky to earn $2 an hour.

I think $150 is a fair price. I wouldn't write a story for any lower than that.

I've even bartered my rate for a story. You'd be surprised some of the treasures I've received from all over the world.

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SusanJillParker said:

Years ago, when I wrote my first celebrity story, Paparazzi or something like that, I don't remember, as BostonFictionWriter, I thought out of the box. I wrote about Cher, Madonna, Susan Sarandon, and others. Cher contacted me. You never know who reads your work.

Cher is the one who gave me the idea of writing erotica for celebrities when she contacted me back in 2008. I love Cher. She's so generous with her time. I discovered what to do with erotic stories that seemingly no one else had thought of doing. I thought of a way to earn more money than I could earn selling thousands of e-Books.

...

The answer is Hollywood or wherever else they make movies, Burbank, New York, wherever, even India. I can't tell you how many stories I've written for Bollywood celebrities.

You have questions? I have answers. You'd be more surprised by the celebrity who will write you to ask you to write their story than you'd be surprised by how money you can earn writing erotica for celebrities.

I wrote more than one story for Oprah and Gayle King, I did. I wrote a story for Beyonce and JayZ. I did. I wrote a story for Jennifer Aniston. Yep, I have. I've written more than one story for Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Over the years, I've written more stories for celebrities than I can remember.

The ones who want the longer multi-chapter stories are the ones who want a story where they have sex with the celebrities they know. Those are the people who will pay you the most money. Most celebrities don't have the time to even read your erotica but there are a boatload of retired and out of work actors and actresses with lots of time on their hands and lots of money to spend.

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Honestly, all that sounds like a far bigger reward than a few red "H"s. How many writers on this site, erotica or porn, could claim that kind of success?

Like some other commenters, I'm cynical about the "erotica"/"porn" distinction. But I write stories at the non-explicit end of what this site hosts, and I feel reasonably well rewarded for it. I can't say I've ever been commissioned by a celebrity (or anybody else) and my total e-book sales would just about pay for a nice dinner out with my partner and a couple of friends.

But every time some Literotica reader decides that they liked my story enough to pay $5 for the e-book version, or comments/contacts me to say that it means something to them, that gives me a warm happy feeling.

It has been mentioned above that every reader brings a unique preference and definition to Lit. regarding porn vs erotica. I think it is also good to remember that there are two broad groups who read these stories we create; One is made up of fellow writers and Lit members, the other is composed of a vast group of 'anonymous unknowns' who probably don't have the same interest in writing as the first group. By it's very nature, Lit draws a lot of traffic from late night readers who are perhaps too horny to sleep and just want some of that "porn" to give their imaginations enough boost to get the job done and turn out the lights.

To answer the question: Nah, no reason to change to please any market since we're not really selling anything. Most of us write for ourselves anyway, and little red "H" symbols come and go without much fanfare. Plus, writing for ourselves proves we're "artists"....right

Bramblethorn said:

Honestly, all that sounds like a far bigger reward than a few red "H"s. How many writers on this site, erotica or porn, could claim that kind of success?

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Honestly, as someone who's been writing for pay for decades, I can say that Freddie's just full of crap on these claims.

oggbashan said:

No matter what we write, the decision on whether it is porn or erotica is the reader's.

For some, everything sexual is porn. For others, anything that isn't in-your-face sex is erotica. For a few, our stories are neither.

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This is so very true! Also, no matter how careful one's definitions are there will still be stories that stand betwixt; neither flesh nor fowl. Is what story-line there is only there to establish context for the sex? Or is the sex only there as a natural consequence of the story?

oggbashan said:

Porn? Erotica?

No matter what we write, the decision on whether it is porn or erotica is the reader's.

For some, everything sexual is porn. For others, anything that isn't in-your-face sex is erotica. For a few, our stories are neither.

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Agreed - the 'beauty' is in the eye of the beholder. I write what I write, and it's up to the reader to take it however they want.

I've been known to write some of the slow-burn sappy stuff as well as the wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am stokers, and they all have their proper place in my mind and the reader's eye. Writing the stuff gets it out of my brain, and it's (hopefully? usually?) consumed by readers who have a need for that one story at that one time. If I'm lucky, my tale is remembered, and if I'm even luckier, folks will stick around to read and appreciate a few more.

Porn? Erotica? Meh... It's an appetizer of lust or romance, the main course of desire and copulation, and a desert of feels. Then maybe an after-dinner mint or coffee with a side of 'chapter 2' teasing. It's all the same to me, the name can change in a heartbeat depending on the audience.

CeasarBoobage said:

Porn? Erotica? Meh... It's an appetizer of lust or romance, the main course of desire and copulation, and a desert of feels. Then maybe an after-dinner mint or coffee with a side of 'chapter 2' teasing. It's all the same to me, the name can change in a heartbeat depending on the audience.

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I'll second that.

I just finished my first story and uploaded it today, not sure how long it'll take to get approved, but fingers crossed it won;t be long.It's called: Anything for a Saturday and it's the first (i hope) in a series I'll be sharing on the site about my character Pixie. I have never written erotica before and found that the sexual element of the story worked better with a slow burner, just little things to keep the readers interest and immerse them more in the story and the characters, i don't know if in pornographic writing that happens. Basically I'm not sure if my erotic writing went too far and bordered into porn, i don't think so though. Some really interesting points here i must say. Lots of things to take on board as a new writer here.

When someone says "porn" I think of a description of sex without plot. Erotica tells a story that includes sex that hopefully complements or enhances the overall story. I suppose a really good plot could do without any sensuality, but then it wouldn't be erotica.

There's readers a'plenty for both.

I try (emphasis on 'try') to write a story with a plot, but if a reader has to take a break and clean up, I hope it's interesting enough that they want come back to find out what happens next.

Porn is fake, erotica isn't, or tries not to be. Porn is paid actors faking emotions, arousal, everything. The single thing not fake in porn is the (chemically enhanced) dick and cum shot. The girls in porn are blow up dolls faking everything.

If the girl is faking it, it's porn. If the females are written as girls straight out of studio produced films, it's porn. If the girl's orgasm is laughably fake, it's porn.

Why is a simple uploaded vid or audio of someone jerking off or a couple going at it in their bedroom so much hotter? Because it's real.

Fake/authentic, especially when it comes to the female characters, is the difference for me

As I see it, there is "pornography", there is "entertainment", and there is "art"; and "erotica" falls somewhere in between all three. But "pornography" is difficult, and "art" downright impossible to define... which makes "erotica" an even more vague term. It's fun to think about these things; but ultimately, does it really matter how we draw the lines, and in which cathegory what falls?

The stories I publish here on Lit are wank stories. My goal is to get the reader (and myself) off. I usually put some work into plot and character, but it's always in the service of creating an erotic moment. I guess that makes me a porn writer? Not sure how that's so terribly offensive and problematic, though. Don't read my stuff if it's not to your taste, or give it a bad rating if you must - problem solved.

I just think of porn as mechanical and erotica as emotional. I can be entertained by porn and it can be artistically rendered.

No, it doesn't matter--unless we're out to police things, which we're not.

Actually to me the terms are meaningless. I use pornography as a substitute for erotica all the time. "Porn," on the other hand is probably my personal "dislike" word.

It's all subjective and fluid.

hylas_ said:

It's fun to think about these things; but ultimately, does it really matter how we draw the lines, and in which cathegory what falls?
.

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My take

I can feel the pain. I generally write novella-length pieces targeted towards men for Kindle. Generally, they come out to about 100 pages and (IMO) are fairly well-written. I see other authors way ahead of me in my categories with 24 page quickies (that at least to me are not as good, I'm biased though...)

What it came down to for me? I write what I want to write, and do it because I enjoy it. Well, there's the income, that's not too bad, either!

I see the terms as synonymous. Or at least, "erotica" is a shorter way of saying "prose porn", since porn also includes photos and movies.

Like some people that try to define a difference between nerds and geeks, you could try to slice up erotica and porn by length or by amount of non-sex content or complexity of the plot. But then, you could do that for porn movies too, and nobody has multiple names for those.

A brief guide to writing porn

Storyline: the storyline is there to spread the sex out. For some strange reason, even porn writers think you mustn't have the first sex scene before the third paragraph and there have to be gaps between the subsequent ones.

Literary quality: spelling 'nnnnnnnnnn!' correctly.

Sex scenes: must be described graphically because readers have no imagination. All aspects (size, frequency, recovery, quantity, loudness, etc, etc) must be far in excess of real life.