Vanilla marriage -- stay or quit?

I hate to sound like a family breaker. That's hard.

But I think that if things go on like they are, it won't be a happy life for both of you.
Either you decide to divorce further on, when you have kids and complications and when it will be harder for both of you to get happiness.
Or based on your frustration you'll turn into a nagging aggressive husband who cheats on the side.

Both are not very good.

That said, I would try to save your marriage by pushing her into this step by step and seeing if MAYBE she comes to like it. Focus on her experience and do it.
Talk to her seriously about your needs. Maybe you won't get a throatfucking submissive sex right away, but if you can start moving towards it - that's good.

Tell her how you feel. Tell her about your dilemma, if needs be. I don't know.
Express your feelings, how this frustration is getting too much for you, how you are afraid that this would be a lousy family and you will be a lousy husband if you don't do anything about it. Tell her how you want to save the marriage and be happy with her.

Make a deal. Vanilla sex - everything she wants - half of the time, and then experimenting the other half.

Start small. Convince her to start doing blowjobs. Get into more diverse positions, diverse activities. Don't go for DS at first - expand on vanilla. Buy some toys, introduce her to them. Start playing with toys and oral sex and maybe anal if that's your thing.
Buy some sexy lingerie. That gives her a proper mindset too.
Then go for submission/BDSM slowly. Start holding her hands behind her back, or make her assume positions, make her do things you ask her. Make sure it's fun and pleasurable for both. Show her that it can be all pleasure and no pain at all, fun for both. When she relaxes a bit, even pain can be introduced as something sexual, and she will not treat it negatively.

Talk about everything. Express your excitement at even the smallest consessions she makes, and if she loves you she will love your happiness so much as to experiment more.

For yourself - think of it as a journey. Not getting a submissive, but carefully training her, because that's what it would be.

I would do everything to save the marriage before going for a divorce. But if she truly, really can't and won't satisfy you, if she can't cooperate with you - well, better do it early than late.

But try. Maybe it helps. Make a 50/50 deal. Have a serious talk about your future.

I wish you both happiness.

p.s. Oh, I didn't see it was an old topic.

Nezhul said:

I hate to sound like a family breaker. That's hard.

But I think that if things go on like they are, it won't be a happy life for both of you.
Either you decide to divorce further on, when you have kids and complications and when it will be harder for both of you to get happiness.
Or based on your frustration you'll turn into a nagging aggressive husband who cheats on the side.

Both are not very good.

That said, I would try to save your marriage by pushing her into this step by step and seeing if MAYBE she comes to like it. Focus on her experience and do it.
Talk to her seriously about your needs. Maybe you won't get a throatfucking submissive sex right away, but if you can start moving towards it - that's good.

Tell her how you feel. Tell her about your dilemma, if needs be. I don't know.
Express your feelings, how this frustration is getting too much for you, how you are afraid that this would be a lousy family and you will be a lousy husband if you don't do anything about it. Tell her how you want to save the marriage and be happy with her.

Make a deal. Vanilla sex - everything she wants - half of the time, and then experimenting the other half.

Start small. Convince her to start doing blowjobs. Get into more diverse positions, diverse activities. Don't go for DS at first - expand on vanilla. Buy some toys, introduce her to them. Start playing with toys and oral sex and maybe anal if that's your thing.
Buy some sexy lingerie. That gives her a proper mindset too.
Then go for submission/BDSM slowly. Start holding her hands behind her back, or make her assume positions, make her do things you ask her. Make sure it's fun and pleasurable for both. Show her that it can be all pleasure and no pain at all, fun for both. When she relaxes a bit, even pain can be introduced as something sexual, and she will not treat it negatively.

Talk about everything. Express your excitement at even the smallest consessions she makes, and if she loves you she will love your happiness so much as to experiment more.

For yourself - think of it as a journey. Not getting a submissive, but carefully training her, because that's what it would be.

I would do everything to save the marriage before going for a divorce. But if she truly, really can't and won't satisfy you, if she can't cooperate with you - well, better do it early than late.

But try. Maybe it helps. Make a 50/50 deal. Have a serious talk about your future.

I wish you both happiness.

Click to expand...

So, given that she's obviously given a lot to be with this guy and has little in the way of resources, basically coerce her into doing something she clearly isn't into. Awesome. "if she loves you she will love your happiness so much as to experiment more" ... because, yeah, we're just here to make guys happy, and nothing thrills us more than seeing that happen, even it means putting up with sex we don't really like.
"... if she can't cooperate with you" ... really? Seriously?

Maybe he should just man up and take responsibility for the fact that he shouldn't have married her when he already knew all this?

You are viewing my post way too negatively. Because you are negatively predisposed to the OP and label him a jerk already.

KimGordon67 said:

So, given that she's obviously given a lot to be with this guy and has little in the way of resources, basically coerce her into doing something she clearly isn't into. Awesome.

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I don't think it's that clear what she is into or not, given you don't have her perspective.
We know next to nothing about their relationship, about if they love each other and how much, if this is just a dragging marriage or if he's the most important man in her life.

Saying "Just divorce" is easy. But there are real people behind it, you know. People that you can't understand just based on a forum post.

"if she loves you she will love your happiness so much as to experiment more" ... because, yeah, we're just here to make guys happy

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Don't you like it when your soulmate is happy with something that you did? It's a natural reaction.

Why do you need to make it a sexist statement?

I'm not a girl, and my girlfriend is not a man, but I adore making her smile and making her happy. And I want to do that as much as I can, even if it takes some concessions from me. Are MEN there to make girls happy? Well yea, but to a point. Not JUST to make them happy. And vice versa. One doesn't mean it's the ONLY thing women (or men) are good for.
What's wrong with that?

"... if she can't cooperate with you" ... really? Seriously?

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Some people are incompatible. Period. It's not like it's someone's fault, it just happens.
If that's the case - then better divorce. But if that's NOT the case and the girl just needs to take it slower - then I say better save the marriage.

Maybe he should just man up and take responsibility for the fact that he shouldn't have married her when he already knew all this?

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Maybe. Maybe not.
We know too little about their relationship to judge. I prefer to give advice how to POSSIBLY save the marriage by introducing her to kink slowly, than to say "Just divorce" and generate a lot of sadness in the world.

Nezhul said:

You are viewing my post way too negatively. Because you are negatively predisposed to the OP and label him a jerk already.

I don't think it's that clear what she is into or not, given you don't have her perspective.
We know next to nothing about their relationship, about if they love each other and how much, if this is just a dragging marriage or if he's the most important man in her life.

Saying "Just divorce" is easy. But there are real people behind it, you know. People that you can't understand just based on a forum post.

Don't you like it when your soulmate is happy with something that you did? It's a natural reaction.

Why do you need to make it a sexist statement?

I'm not a girl, and my girlfriend is not a man, but I adore making her smile and making her happy. And I want to do that as much as I can, even if it takes some concessions from me. Are MEN there to make girls happy? Well yea, but to a point. Not JUST to make them happy. And vice versa. One doesn't mean it's the ONLY thing women (or men) are good for.
What's wrong with that?

Some people are incompatible. Period. It's not like it's someone's fault, it just happens.
If that's the case - then better divorce. But if that's NOT the case and the girl just needs to take it slower - then I say better save the marriage.

Maybe. Maybe not.
We know too little about their relationship to judge. I prefer to give advice how to POSSIBLY save the marriage by introducing her to kink slowly, than to say "Just divorce" and generate a lot of sadness in the world.

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I generally think that, if you average it out, divorce prevents more sadness than it creates. Your suggestion is project that would take years with very little likelihood of a positive outcome.

My responses was based on the information that actually is at hand, rather than conjecture. What we know is he can apparently ONLY get sexual satisfaction from situations of apparent non-consent/throat-fucking, and that she is very 'vanilla' and finds even a blow job untenable. He seems pretty intractable in his preferences, so your suggestion of 'meeting halfway' is pretty unlikely. Given her starting point, it seems pretty unlikely that she's going to willingly play the 'rape victim' at any point in the future, and even if she does, it's only going to be after years of unpleasantness for her (and probably him).

The information that is actually at hand is a thousand words.
You can't describe human life in a thousand words. Can't describe anything, really.

There's a problem. A few points are made, and depending on the person they may have been worded very poorly. All the rest that you know about situation - is your interpretation, projecting the known facts onto your personal experience, and getting the result which is not reliable, not even close.

Did you notice how different people say different things about one and the same post? It's because our personal experience is so different, that the picture that is drawn in our heads is completely different, even though the information we receive is exactly the same.

One would see an unhappy, if not plainly abusive relationship that tortures both parties, and where the man is the ultimate villain who subjected a poor defencless girl to the life of darkness and regret.

Another sees a sad relationship that may yet still blossom if you find the right path. If you nurture it correctly.

I can not know which it is. There's literally millions of facts and complications to this situation that neither you nor I can see. That's why I think it's only up to the original poster to judge what is doable and what isn't.

All I can do is give options. If it's completely hopeless - I say they part and find happiness elsewhere. It's not the end of the world.

But if it is still redeemable, if they live happily but for sexual frustrations - why ruin a marriage over something like sex? That's why I think it's important to give an advice how one could fix their sex lives.

What if they are perfectly happy and compatible in all aspects of life but sex? The original post says nothing about that. And you just tell them - DIVORCE! That's not nearly smart.

When two people get married, they both make a commitment. And they both are responsible for supporting each other and keeping each other happy. Reading the posts in this thread, I get the feeling that most posters think that the entire responsibility lies on the OP.
It's not the case. Excuse me, but when a girl offers only missionary and maybe doggie - that's a PROBLEM, and it's her problem. It's not misogyny, it's just the way it is. It's comparable to a man who cums in 2 minutes and falls back to sleep, not caring for his partner at all.

From what we know, the problem on the girl's side exists. It's not her FAULT per se, but it's a problem nonetheless. And if fixing this problem can get their lives in order - than why not?

Nezhul said:

The information that is actually at hand is a thousand words.
You can't describe human life in a thousand words. Can't describe anything, really.

There's a problem. A few points are made, and depending on the person they may have been worded very poorly. All the rest that you know about situation - is your interpretation, projecting the known facts onto your personal experience, and getting the result which is not reliable, not even close.

Did you notice how different people say different things about one and the same post? It's because our personal experience is so different, that the picture that is drawn in our heads is completely different, even though the information we receive is exactly the same.

One would see an unhappy, if not plainly abusive relationship that tortures both parties, and where the man is the ultimate villain who subjected a poor defencless girl to the life of darkness and regret.

Another sees a sad relationship that may yet still blossom if you find the right path. If you nurture it correctly.

I can not know which it is. There's literally millions of facts and complications to this situation that neither you nor I can see. That's why I think it's only up to the original poster to judge what is doable and what isn't.

All I can do is give options. If it's completely hopeless - I say they part and find happiness elsewhere. It's not the end of the world.

But if it is still redeemable, if they live happily but for sexual frustrations - why ruin a marriage over something like sex? That's why I think it's important to give an advice how one could fix their sex lives.

What if they are perfectly happy and compatible in all aspects of life but sex? The original post says nothing about that. And you just tell them - DIVORCE! That's not nearly smart.

When two people get married, they both make a commitment. And they both are responsible for supporting each other and keeping each other happy. Reading the posts in this thread, I get the feeling that most posters think that the entire responsibility lies on the OP.
It's not the case. Excuse me, but when a girl offers only missionary and maybe doggie - that's a PROBLEM, and it's her problem. It's not misogyny, it's just the way it is. It's comparable to a man who cums in 2 minutes and falls back to sleep, not caring for his partner at all.

From what we know, the problem on the girl's side exists. It's not her FAULT per se, but it's a problem nonetheless. And if fixing this problem can get their lives in order - than why not?

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OK, here's the OP, with my responses to the actual evidence it contains embedded in bold.
Hi there to the BDSM folks out there,

I am sure that this post will invite a lot of ridicule and unwelcome comments but I've decided to ask for advice from people who are or might have been in the same boat as me.

The thing is that I am unhappily married in a Vanilla marriage. Its been about an year and half of married life and I am sure I am not a vanilla person although my wife is one. There is a big mismatch between her and mine sexual needs -- she has a normal sex drive but only wishes to quench it through vanilla sex and that is as vanilla as you can get. She is satisfied with sex in a missionary position and has big trouble adjusting to even variations of the vanilla lovemaking paradigm and there isn't even a blowjob on offer. She is vanilla. That's fine. There's NO indication that's going to change, or that she wants to be 'trained'. Me, on the other hand can't get off unless its something to do with the girl being a submissive, letting me fuck her face when I want. It has reached a point where I can't cum anymore during sex. However, with throatfucking or unconsensual consensual porn, I orgasm very well. This guy can ONLY cum in contexts of domination or simulated rape. [I'm not going to comment on my thoughts about that - but this is the fact of the situation.]

My marriage was based on the fact that at the time, I was a loser and caved in for something I knew I did not want. I'm reading this as basically him not being very honest with her when they got married, and clearly not letting him know about the needs he has in relation to sex. I have moved on to a much better place since then, gotten fit and now attending one of the top universities in the world. I am sure to start with a six figure salary in a couple of years and will be shortly in a position where I could get in the local BDSM scene which is quite happening. Notably he doesn't mention their relationship at all in his list of things that are now good about his life - I'd assume from that that, outside of the sex, they're not particularly close.

Now the question is do I break off the marriage based on this mismatch of sexual interests? The girl in question is innocent and has quit her job to move with me to a new country and is very family and friends dependent kind of person, so she has left that support network behind as well. This woman gave up a LOT to marry him, and I assume has little in the way of financial or social rsources where they are now. I would feel like a dick to ditch her. She tries hard to satisfy me sexually in a vanilla way which is not even close to what I want. I have tried to discuss this with her and introduce her to the BDSM world but the B of BDSM is scary enough for her. Clear evidence that the likelihood of her wanting to 'trained' is extremely low.

So the choice that I see is that of living a sexually repressed life which is making me sick and depressed due to my exceedingly high sex drive and that of being a total dick and fucking up her life. He does seem to have some care for her and sense of responsibility for the situation. She does not consent to an open marriage or sexual liberty and could even be in love with me genuinely. '... could even be in love with me genuinely'? I'm entirely unsure what to make of this, but it doesn't sound a lot like he loves her. I will also get in trouble with the law, if she contests it with a false charge (her father being a big shot).

I am no longer able to concentrate on important things and the sexual repression is really overpowering the other aspects of my personality. Its like a Gay/Lesbian person married to the opposite gender.

Any advice?

Thanks for reading it and would appreciate your 2 cents.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There is nothing in the evidence available to suggest that he's able to 'settle' for a vanilla sex life, or that she has any inclination to all to be 'trained' into submission. In this situation, separation would be best for him, and the only fair thing for her.

It's also notable that you didn't suggest he go on a 'voyage of discovery' and unearth the delights of sensual, consensual, erotic, other-focused sex.

There is nothing in the evidence available to suggest that he's able to 'settle' for a vanilla sex life, or that she has any inclination to all to be 'trained' into submission. In this situation, separation would be best for him, and the only fair thing for her.

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But there's absolutely no evidence of the opposite!

Look, we are not talking cookies here. It's marriage. Human lives.
You can't just ruin this thing based on your understanding of a small post. It's not even humanly possible for the OP to inclue EVERYTHING in his post, so you could make any sort of informed judgment.

Don't you see that? It's like you didn't read my previous post at all.

Can't you see that you "assume" a bunch of stuf? And then when there is "clear evidence" of something - your judgment based on one sentence.

And yet you are somehow confident enough to give a clear "divorce" advice. That's irresponsible.

Nezhul said:

But there's absolutely no evidence of the opposite!

Look, we are not talking cookies here. It's marriage. Human lives.
You can't just ruin this thing based on your understanding of a small post. It's not even humanly possible for the OP to inclue EVERYTHING in his post, so you could make any sort of informed judgment.

Don't you see that? It's like you didn't read my previous post at all.

Can't you see that you "assume" a bunch of stuf? And then when there is "clear evidence" of something - your judgment based on one sentence.

And yet you are somehow confident enough to give a clear "divorce" advice. That's irresponsible.

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Actually, there is evidence of the opposite.

You're basically suggesting she ruin her life for a preordained length of time.

Divorcing doesn't 'ruin lives' but staying in unhealthy and unhappy marriages does.

KimGordon67 said:

Actually, there is evidence of the opposite.

You're basically suggesting she ruin her life for a preordained length of time.

Divorcing doesn't 'ruin lives' but staying in unhealthy and unhappy marriages does.

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I suggest alternatives that may help the one who has the full picture to make an informed decision.

You suggest a solution based on the minimum of info. When Bush invaded Iraq he had more intelligence to make a decision. You - you just speculate and play with human lives here.

Also, divorces do ruin lives. And saving marriages does fix lives. Sometimes. Sometimes the opposite. I'd say it's about 50/50, or else we shoud all divorce all the time.

SMasterJack said:

Hi there to the BDSM folks out there,

I am sure that this post will invite a lot of ridicule and unwelcome comments but I've decided to ask for advice from people who are or might have been in the same boat as me.

The thing is that I am unhappily married in a Vanilla marriage. Its been about an year and half of married life and I am sure I am not a vanilla person although my wife is one. There is a big mismatch between her and mine sexual needs -- she has a normal sex drive but only wishes to quench it through vanilla sex and that is as vanilla as you can get. She is satisfied with sex in a missionary position and has big trouble adjusting to even variations of the vanilla lovemaking paradigm and there isn't even a blowjob on offer. Me, on the other hand can't get off unless its something to do with the girl being a submissive, letting me fuck her face when I want. It has reached a point where I can't cum anymore during sex. However, with throatfucking or unconsensual consensual porn, I orgasm very well.

My marriage was based on the fact that at the time, I was a loser and caved in for something I knew I did not want. I have moved on to a much better place since then, gotten fit and now attending one of the top universities in the world. I am sure to start with a six figure salary in a couple of years and will be shortly in a position where I could get in the local BDSM scene which is quite happening.

Now the question is do I break off the marriage based on this mismatch of sexual interests? The girl in question is innocent and has quit her job to move with me to a new country and is very family and friends dependent kind of person, so she has left that support network behind as well. I would feel like a dick to ditch her. She tries hard to satisfy me sexually in a vanilla way which is not even close to what I want. I have tried to discuss this with her and introduce her to the BDSM world but the B of BDSM is scary enough for her.

So the choice that I see is that of living a sexually repressed life which is making me sick and depressed due to my exceedingly high sex drive and that of being a total dick and fucking up her life. She does not consent to an open marriage or sexual liberty and could even be in love with me genuinely. I will also get in trouble with the law, if she contests it with a false charge (her father being a big shot).

I am no longer able to concentrate on important things and the sexual repression is really overpowering the other aspects of my personality. Its like a Gay/Lesbian person married to the opposite gender.

Any advice?

Thanks for reading it and would appreciate your 2 cents.

Click to expand...

I do not wish to judge or really to suggest you stay or go. This is your life (and hers) and we must all learn to make choices based on our own values, needs and integrity.

I will mention that you don't say if there are any children, so I am assuming there aren't any. From my perspective, this would be a huge indication that perhaps it is time to get out -now- before your vanilla lifestyle produces offspring.

In times of my past, when I have wondered if I should 'stay or go' in a marriage (or other difficult choices) I have found the use of a penny or some such coin to be of great help. Flip the coin, see the results. If you can sit peacefully with the result of your coin toss, (despite being terrified of doing it), then you have made the right choice. If, however, you get a real sinking feeling in your gut when you see the results of that coin toss, then you will know that this is the wrong choice for you and to make another.

I am new to this whole 'life-style' thing, but I will tell you this. One of the reasons why I am now researching this or even thinking of entering through this door, is because of a very special connection to a person whom I consider to be completely worthy of my trust. The reasons why I feel able to trust him are due to qualities such as integrity, honesty, reliability, accountability, genuine caring, -self- discipline which are all admirable and qualities that this gentleman has in spades. These are qualities which enable me to trust him, implicitly and make him a very safe person with whom to explore and open up with. It is because of who -he- is, and how I resonate with him that provides the safety net for me to be able to even think about exploring some of my own darker thoughts and side to my personality.

I think that you have two choices here. One is to continue living a lie and to continue dragging more and more people into this lie. Eventually, you will have children with this woman if you stay and then you will have children who are subjected to a father who is basically an unhappy and resentful man who, I suppose, is denying himself of who he is.

The other option is to face up to your mistakes...to admit them and to allow this woman to move on and find a man who genuinely loves her for the wonderful qualities that she possesses. Because we all possess wonderful qualities and deserve to be loved for those. You, by your own admission, can not do this for her and so, because of this, (IMO) would have no business performing that role in the bedroom with her because it would be lacking in the essential elements of raw trust.

Another suggestion that I have is to sit down with a pen and paper and write down 2 things. 1 would be where you see yourself in 5 years from now .. if you see her with you and if you don't. Then, think on that image. The other (2) would be to write down a list of all of the pros and cons to leaving and staying. Be as honest as you can and admit when one item is on both lists.

And finally, I would try to remember that acceptance is often the key. We may not like the situation as is, but if we are being honest then we need to accept this because living in denial .. helps no one and potentially hurts many.

The original poster's question happened back on December 1st and he hasn't posted anything since.

That isn't really a big deal, perhaps there are others out there reading who have similar issues and appreciate the replies.

Just wanted to point out the original question was over two months ago - something to keep in mind as you reply.