Do a friend a favour?

groove_kid said:

Good advice. Thanks. The paper wouldn't have any legal effect though and
legalities are time consuming anyway.

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As I said, it's not legally enforceable. That's not the point, which is to have an agreed-upon list of terms. She meets those terms, and doesn't diss you or piss you or dismiss you, then she can stay. Otherwise, she's gone, and she can't say "But we didn't agree on..."

Again, this suggestion may help show you both your limits. Do you really want her out of your life? Apparently not; you want to be friends. Can she be a real friend with some motivation? If she says no, then you have your answer.

groove_kid said:

Must keep this in mind too. Thank you.

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Not to oversimplify things, but we've all elaborated on basically the same point, she is not worthy of the "friendship" that you're trying to impart on her. A friend has YOUR best interests at heart, not their own, and by your own description, this is not the case. Take this as a massive warning that should you invite her into your home, your life will become infinitely more complicated than you ever expected.

You're thinking with your pecker and heart, not your brain. Understand right here and now, that there is no way that this ends other than badly. If you want to help her, then help her find an apartment that accepts pets. Help her find a boarding kennel for her animals if need be. As a last resort, offer her a one time cash offer to assist with the aforementioned items.

DO NOT, under any circumstances, co-sign for her or enter into any financial obligation what-so-ever! By your own descriptions, she's a leech, who will prey upon whomever will provide her with what she needs. Don't fall for it. Trust your gut on this one and just walk the fuck away.

fire_breeze said:

Maybe you and I have a different definition of friends, but if I cannot trust someone, then they are not my friend. Coworker, yes. Acquaintance, sure. Even close lunch acquaintance? Absolutely. But friend? That, in my book, requires mutual trust, care and respect.

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I fully agree with this statement in general, but at the same time I disagree.

I generally trust people as far as I can throw my arm, but then I compartmentalize different levels of trust.
Do I trust a friend who is gay, to turn my back or to trust that nothing will happen at night while sleeping when I share my home with them? No.
I've extended such blind trust to gay friends, numerous times and fell victim to them. Does that mean I can't have gay friends? Sometimes I think that would be easier, but I have gay friends that know I trust them, to a safe distance, and no more.

I had one good friend who noticed I was acting cagy once. I explained to him I was walking around with $5,000 in my pocket. He didn't believe me. I took out the wad, unfolded the neat stack and showed him. He wanted to see if it was newspaper I guess between the hundreds and asked if he could see it. I extended my hand out to him and when he tried to take it from me to leaf through it, he found my grip on the money was very firm.
He gently smiled and said "I'm not going to take it."
I easily smiled back and replied "I know."
The grip on the money didn't relax.

Trust is relative. I am happy when friends fulfill the levels of trust I extend them. I liken the saying "a stranger is a friend I haven't met yet." Then again, I also believe in another saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

Call me naive, but I easily call people friends. Trust is another matter. Good friends are people I feel I can trust marginally. I have very few good friends.

It's very hard to get on my bad side. However, get on that bad side, and you have found your worst nightmare, for life.

Just saying.
(I felt like addressing this because it pertains to what I say next to the OP.)

groove_kid said:

I don't trust her enough right now to let her stay at all. With or without the pets.

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Okay, now we are getting to the heart of the matter. The rest of the dross you you have said up to this point is just a pretense to let everyone know you aren't trying to be a hump to this girl in need. I get it. I'm not judging, but I like to clear away bullshit. It helps for getting to the root of the matter.

I'm generally the anti-social personality type that understands "no trust" doesn't necessarily mean "not a friend."

"I don't trust her"(period) that's enough right there. Forget the pretenses and simply admit this to her. Be honest with yourself, and be honest with her. IF she is a friend (and anything more), she will understand. She has done something to earn that distrust and will have to work at it IF she wants to get back on your good side.

(Most times they don't, which proves out the "fair weather friend" concept everyone is mentioning.)

groove_kid said:

I'd like her to get settled here again and we can slowly become friends again. I still think of her as a friend though. Maybe we can't trust all our friends though. I think my looking for a rental unit for her is enough help for now.

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"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steaks" ~Jayne Cobb
"A friend in need is a pain in the ass." ~Fafhrd (parody via Robert Asprin)

Part of what you said here seems to me to be that you WISH things were better. That's a nice sentiment, but I'll point out that if you only help someone else out only when it's convenient for you, then you are being the fair weather friend (that everyone is suggesting you to be) and not help out this fair weather friend in need.

You've done a token effort and that should be enough, but people have needs that don't correlate with "good timing." In a utopian world, it would be safe to safely be friends with someone when it they are fiscally and socially secure so you safely know their feelings of friendship are true.

Real life isn't like that. If this country goes in a direction I've been predicting it will, we are going to see less people fiscally and socially secure and more people like your friend. Maybe then we will get back to values that we used to value in this country.

For the record, I have good friends that I haven't spoken with in years. Long distance friendships usually don't work out. Some people like to "keep in touch" but more often this is just regurgitating:
"how have you been?"
...
"That's nice"
...
"what have you done lately?"
...
"Not much either"
...
"Any chance you can stop by?"
...
"yeah, I wish I could too, maybe next year."

Put. a. gun. to. my. head. and. pull. the. trigger. now. please!

Maybe your friend is an anti-social introvert like myself. Maybe she had the ability to contact you while she was in California but didn't because she feels this way about long distance relationships, which means, yes she is lying. but then what is her motivation for lying? Is it to take selfishly advantage or simply an act of desperation?

Or maybe she is a completely conniving bitch. The only ones to know for sure are you and her.

The Sparrow said:

Once upon a time there was a non-conforming sparrow who decided NOT to fly south for the winter. However, soon the weather turned so cold that he reluctantly started to fly south. In a short time, ice began to form on his little birdie wings and he fell to earth in a barnyard, almost frozen. A cow passed by and crapped on the little sparrow. The sparrow thought it was the end, but the manure warmed him and defrosted his wings. Warm and happy, able to breath, he started to sing. Just then a large cat came by, and, hearing the chirping, cleared away the manure, found the chirping bird, and promptly ate him.

The Morals of the Story
1. Everyone who shits on you is not necessarily your enemy.
2. Everyone who gets you out of shit is not necessarily your friend.
3. And, when you are up to your neck in shit, have the intelligence to keep your mouth shut.

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My point for my recounting this fable is that things on the surface are seldom what they seem.

Admittedly, I am contrary in what I have just said. Everything I said isn't trying to make it easy for you. It's not supposed to be an easy decision.

Grow a pair.

My ex treated me badly. Really badly. To this day, if she was in need, I would help her. I understand the impulse...it is not easily dismissed.

twister947 said:

My ex treated me badly. Really badly. To this day, if she was in need, I would help her. I understand the impulse...it is not easily dismissed.

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Nonsense, youll drop her like a hot rock when she fucks you in a way that matters.

Lock your doors, they are everywhere...

LWulf said:

Do I trust a friend who is gay, to turn my back or to trust that nothing will happen at night while sleeping when I share my home with them? No.
I've extended such blind trust to gay friends, numerous times and fell victim to them. Does that mean I can't have gay friends? Sometimes I think that would be easier, but I have gay friends that know I trust them, to a safe distance, and no more.

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Seriously, if you have fallen "victim to them" numerous times I think perhaps you should question your own sexuality, especially if you are offering "hop into my bed" so frequently (yeah, I know you didn't write the actual bed thing). Perhaps your choice of friends is just poor and nothing really to do with them being gay. Lack of respect is a sure indicator that a friendship was not really established at all.

There are sleazy heterosexuals who will manipulate and attempt to take advantage just as there are sleazy homosexuals who do the same. I would not want to associate with anyone who is a sleazy manipulator no matter their sexual orientation. Yet this has happened to you many times??? It appears they were not your friends, just sleazy manipulators, yet you chose to have them in your life.

LWulf said:

but I have gay friends that know I trust them, to a safe distance, and no more.

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you are not their friend, not in a long shot.

Your attitudes are homophobic, narrow minded and display very poor judgement in who you choose to have close in your life. If these people happen to be gay then that is most certainly your issue not theirs.

I am curious, why would a gay person view you as an irresistible potential conquest when it would obviously be a hell of a lot more convenient for them to find another gay person? Why has that happened to you numerous times? What signals are you putting out?

What does it feel like to be a homophobic gay magnet?

LWulf said:

Do I trust a friend who is gay, to turn my back or to trust that nothing will happen at night while sleeping when I share my home with them? No.

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So this guy who is more of a business associate than a friend, calls me to tell me he is celebrating and would I join. Meaning he will come over with a dinner, drink and weed.
I say "Look. I am not interested in fucking you, so you can come and try get me drunk and whatnot, but I am telling you in front I am 99% going to say no and if you cant take that no you better drop it." He says he wont push but can I let him sleep over. In my bed. I say fine, you want to torture yourself thats fine with me.

He comes over, we eat, drink, have a joint, talk. We go to bed, he gives me a back rub. Tries an ass rub I say no. He says fine and we go to sleep. In the same bed, all night, nothing happens.

This is a true story. Now compare my acquaintance with your "friends".

NippleMuncher said:

Understand right here and now, that there is no way that this ends other than badly.

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Depends on what each party wants, what they're willing to give, and how firm the OP is. Even leeches have their uses.

DO NOT, under any circumstances, co-sign for her or enter into any financial obligation what-so-ever!

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Quite right.

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

Nonsense, youll drop her like a hot rock when she fucks you in a way that matters.

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Perhaps, but that misses the point, which is, it's a helluva lot easier to hand out advice like this than it is to follow.

There really is a middle ground here.
Absolutely do not attach yourself to this woman. Don't give her a key or access to your home or your car. Don't 'loan' her money (money loaned to friends is money given to friends and there may as well be no pretense about it. That will save a lot of stress later.)
The "grass, gas, or ass" idea of letting her stay (don't recall who thought up that contract) will just make YOU look like an ass. That's only any good as a litmus test. If you want her gone and want to prove that her motives are what you thought. A person who says yes to that should be sent packing with no explanation. A person who says no to it won't have to be asked to leave.

However, if you want to rebuild a friendship with someone you lost touch with that can be done (or attempted.) You have to remember that this is not the person you knew and cared for, who knew and cared for you. This is a new relationship. Nobody gets more credit than they would if you'd only just met when you reconnected online.
I doubt you'd be even considering letting someone you met online recently move in with you. That impulse comes from the previous relationship so it has to be set aside.
Telling her that she can't move in with you (even if the two of you lived together for a while before) doesn't have to be blunt or mean. Has nobody ever told you 'no' without you dropping them as a friend?
Maybe she's looking to stay with you because she hasn't got many options, if you want to reach out to her you could look in to some options in your area for her. Is there a place she could afford? Is there a shelter that will kennel the pets without her having to give them up? Is there any sort of assistance out there? Spend an hour on the computer and/or the phone and when you tell her that your place isn't an option you may have something to suggest instead.
Supporting a friend does not mean SUPPORTING a friend. Yes, getting on her feet is going to be a rough thing so having someone to talk to, to maybe bring over a pizza now and then or just be someone to talk to will be worth a lot. Be the person who helps her solve problems not the one who tries to fix them. In the end that's the person we all want to have in our life.

NightL said:

Seriously, if you have fallen "victim to them" numerous times I think perhaps you should question your own sexuality, especially if you are offering "hope into my bed" so frequently (yeah, I know you didn't write the actual bed thing). Perhaps your choice of friends is just poor and nothing really to do with them being gay. Lack of respect is a sure indicator that a friendship was not really established at all.

There are sleazy heterosexuals who will manipulate and attempt to take advantage just as there are sleazy homosexuals who do the same. I would not want to associate with anyone who is a sleazy manipulator no matter their sexual orientation. Yet this has happened to you many times??? It appears they were not your friends, just sleazy manipulators, yet you chose to have them in your life.

you are not their friend, not in a long shot.

Your attitudes are homophobic, narrow minded and display very poor judgement in who you choose to have close in your life. If these people happen to be gay then that is most certainly your issue not theirs.

I am curious, why would a gay person view you as an irresistible potential conquest when it would obviously be a hell of a lot more convenient for them to find another gay person? Why has that happened to you numerous times? What signals are you putting out?

What does it feel like to be a homophobic gay magnet?

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I am too polite and I'm easily friendly. That probably comes across to some as "approachable." I am also what the gay community would consider a "twink" or "pretty boy." I attribute that to good genes since both my parents looked like they were 10+ years younger than their age.
Because I wore tight jeans. Oh you KNOW someone who wears tight clothing is just ASKING for it!!

I've gone to a fetish party, stood talking to a couple who were online friends of mine, out of the blue, a guy walks up to me and asked if I wanted to play with him. Totally ignored the sticker on my chest that said my name, identified me as heterosexual, etc.

I smiled politely said "thank you for the offer, but no."
After he walked away, the couple were all manner of "OMG. Did (known guy in the industry for being heterosexual) just come out of the closet?!?" (talking about the other guy), meanwhile I looked at them, pained and said "Do I have 'GAY' stamped on my forehead?"

I had one co-worker drop his drawers and start rutting up against my ass at work when my back was turned, all because I said that being homosexual isn't a crime.

I've had more than a couple of guys say they would like to spank me with one of those 'goofy off in never never land already fantasizing' expressions on their face.

I've stopped going to the beach wearing a swimsuit or wearing shorts because guys or friends I'm with, can't stop coming up to me and commenting on "what a sexy tushie you got." WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHY I'M AN ANTI-SOCIAL INTROVERT?

I've had a guy that sat across from me on a train and gave me a knowing smile while I was licking an ice cream cone. I looked straight into his eyes and bit into the ice cream in response (which hurt like fucking hell). He winced and gave an apologetic look back.
I stopped eating ice cream in public after that.

No, I wasn't talking about them sharing my bed. I let a couple of guys sleep on the couch (at separate times) when they had a run of hard luck. I didn't know they were gay. Strangely they seemed to think my being friendly means it's okay to help themselves and walk into my room while I'm sleeping and start caressing me.

I knew these two older guys that were boyfriends. They weren't the prissy kinds of guys but more the regular guy sort of homosexuals. It came out early on that they were gay, which I said "Well, I don't care as long as you don't make any advances at me." The older of the two said "Nah, we are a devout couple, though we DO sometimes bring in a willing third."
He then proceeded to describe how well he could orally please me. I replied that I wasn't really into blowjobs. He gave me a knowing smile and said "That's because you have been with too many stupid women who don't know what they were doing. A GUY KNOWS how to please another guy."
I said "If that did it for me, I'd be all over that, but no. Thanks."
A homophobe would have felt insecure in his own sexuality and been itching to get into a fight because of the come-on. I laughed it off.
Eventually I did stop hanging out with those guys because the come-ons never stopped, it was always angling somehow to getting me in bed with them. Whether it be helping me out with getting a girl followed up with mentioning that the help would have strings attached or some other ploy. I soon after stopped laughing it off and eventually stopped hanging out all together.

I have stuck up for a gay friend once or twice who was getting pummeled by a bunch of guys, just because they were gay and that means, odds against me or not, I'm in it, fighting his attackers.
Once, one fella I was helping out, after I drove off his attackers, looked at me like his knight in shining armor. He was like the stray puppy that you try to be nice to. Lord, did he require a lot of talking to before he got the hint I wasn't gay. I would have thought "I'm not gay" would be enough, but no. He thought I was gay in denial.
That's why I think I'm a friend to gays or at least friendly.

Mostly, I don't like seeing a person getting beat on by a group. Gay or not, friend or not, I'm in it. When I was young, I got used to fighting against groups, mostly because I was that single person against a group being beat on for no reason. Then I got better at fighting back.

I was new in town and walked into a bar. It was a gay bar. It didn't have a sign saying "GAY BAR" so how was I to know? There were guys and girls in there and nobody was dressed like in "The Blue Oyster Bar." I started shooting pool which is why I usually hang out in bars. Of course red flags went up when I got my butt pat fondly.
I looked at the guy I was shooting pool with and asked "Is this a gay bar?"
He looked at me matter of factly like he was ready for a fight "yes."
I said, "Oh, well, I hope nobody minds, but I'm not."
He relaxed and said "No, as long as you're cool, we don't care."
"Cool. Let's keep playing."

Of course, somebody DID care. He was a guy that I worked with. He seemed rather upset that I was hanging out with a bunch of HIS friends.
He made a big dramatic display a couple of times which I asked in an aside to the guy I was shooting pool with "What's HIS problem?"
He smiled and said "He's just being a jealous bitch because you're new here and he's used to getting all the attention."

That I wasn't trying to mooch in on his hunting ground didn't stop him from shoulder bumping me at work while walking towards each other. Trying to instigate a fight, so he could get me fired. Seriously, how fucking junior high can you get? He was about 30 and I was in my late 30's. Please!

Yes, there have also been some respectful and decent ones, but those I could count easily with one hand.

This is just a sampling of all the issues I've had to deal with (the worst and really juicy, sordid ones, I'm withholding).

How does it feel to be such a gay magnet? Probably the same as what a really hot chick feels to a bunch of horndog heterosexual guys. Difference there is the hot chick becomes lesbian to get away from the guys. I'm still in the same boat I was in before, either way.

By all rights, I should be a homophobe. I should be a homicidal homosexual killer, but I'm not.

I should question my sexuality? No, but i definitely question the intelligence of the world around me ALL the time.

LWulf said:

I am too polite and I'm easily friendly. That probably comes across to some as "approachable." I am also what the gay community would consider a "twink" or "pretty boy." I attribute that to good genes since both my parents looked like they were 10+ years younger than their age.
Because I wore tight jeans. Oh you KNOW someone who wears tight clothing is just ASKING for it!!

I've gone to a fetish party, stood talking to a couple who were online friends of mine, out of the blue, a guy walks up to me and asked if I wanted to play with him. Totally ignored the sticker on my chest that said my name, identified me as heterosexual, etc.

I smiled politely said "thank you for the offer, but no."
After he walked away, the couple were all manner of "OMG. Did (known guy in the industry for being heterosexual) just come out of the closet?!?" (talking about the other guy), meanwhile I looked at them, pained and said "Do I have 'GAY' stamped on my forehead?"

I had one co-worker drop his drawers and start rutting up against my ass at work when my back was turned, all because I said that being homosexual isn't a crime.

I've had more than a couple of guys say they would like to spank me with one of those 'goofy off in never never land already fantasizing' expressions on their face.

I've stopped going to the beach wearing a swimsuit or wearing shorts because guys or friends I'm with, can't stop coming up to me and commenting on "what a sexy tushie you got." WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHY I'M AN ANTI-SOCIAL INTROVERT?

I've had a guy that sat across from me on a train and gave me a knowing smile while I was licking an ice cream cone. I looked straight into his eyes and bit into the ice cream in response (which hurt like fucking hell). He winced and gave an apologetic look back.
I stopped eating ice cream in public after that.

No, I wasn't talking about them sharing my bed. I let a couple of guys sleep on the couch (at separate times) when they had a run of hard luck. I didn't know they were gay. Strangely they seemed to think my being friendly means it's okay to help themselves and walk into my room while I'm sleeping and start caressing me.

...

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Congratulations!
You know what it feels like to be a woman in public.

NotHisLady said:

Congratulations!
You know what it feels like to be a woman in public.

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Eye opening isnt it?

Friends help you move.

Real friends help you move a body.

NotHisLady said:

Congratulations!
You know what it feels like to be a woman in public.

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I never realized I had to go through any ordeals just to know what it's like for women ...Actually I knew all that long before any of that stuff happened.

StrayKat said:

Eye opening isnt it?

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Yes, very, and in more ways than one.

LWulf said:

I never realized I had to go through any ordeals just to know what it's like for women ...Actually I knew all that long before any of that stuff happened.



Yes, very, and in more ways than one.

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You may have already known but too many guys have no idea.
If you don't believe me just look at the thread that started a day or so ago in the PG--some guy having a hissy fit because the women weren't answering the PM's he was sending them introducing himself.
Too many think just being in a certain place or dressed a certain way means you will welcome certain kinds of attention. Very much what you were describing but most of us take it in stride and don't let it change our life that much.