Why do people with an account comment anonymously and why does lit make it easy

Congrats. You have joined the club.

Reading Redzinger's post reminds me of something I've wanted to ask.

There is a rule about posting e-mail addresses and personal contact information in posts.

But I am seeing a lot of people putting their twitter addresses in their signatures.

How is that different?

Is it for some reason or is it just the site not caring about its rules as usual?

lovecraft68 said:

That's the UK, this is the US where women who are raped are still treated as sluts who asked for it.

As for lit rape threats are encouraged here, it keeps lits chosen audience happy.

I have a collection of them and I'm not a woman.

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That makes me sad for you. There is still an element of that here but police forces are instructed to believe allegations of rape until evidence proves different. Rape victims are given anonymity in court but the accused is not. It's not helped by the occasional false allegation. We've had a couple of those where it got to court and the man was branded a rapist in the newspapers. I won't bore you with the details but in the latest case the evidence that emerged was so great that not only was the case dropped but the crown prosecution service charged the woman with conspiring to pervert the course of justice. Sadly she killed herself rather than face trial. Obviously a very disturbed lady.

I have to say that if you want things to change in the US, only the American people can bring it about. That means doing more than moaning about it on Lit. I don't know a lot about your legal system but a situation where prosecuters and judges are elected seems hardly ideal. Elections are turning into beauty contests and a person standing for election is hardly likely to stand up for principles that may not be popular. Sadly there are people here campaigning to get just that.

Sorry all drifting off subject.

lovecraft68 said:

Reading Redzinger's post reminds me of something I've wanted to ask.

There is a rule about posting e-mail addresses and personal contact information in posts.

But I am seeing a lot of people putting their twitter addresses in their signatures.

How is that different?

Is it for some reason or is it just the site not caring about its rules as usual?

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Good point.

I've never really thought of that Twitter address as personal information - that's my author account under my pen name, and I have a separate 'me' account. It's also connected to through the Amazon author page, so if I give a link to any of my novels, it's easy enough to get my author Twitter details.

I respect that I'm in a different situation to many - in real life, everyone knows about my writing too. (It was even a topic of conversation in the pub on Sunday.)

Those rules are in place to protect people from themselves. Your email address can be a gold mine to malicious people. Email is connected to damn near everything you sign up for on the internet, and many people only have one email address that was assigned to them by their ISP even in this day and age.

Twitter is by nature a public thing to begin with. The only part of your Twitter account the public doesn't already have access to are your settings and your DMs.

It's also opt-in, because you have to decide to see what someone is saying, where email is opt-out, because you have to take action after you decide you don't want to see what someone is sending.

DeYaKen said:

That makes me sad for you. There is still an element of that here but police forces are instructed to believe allegations of rape until evidence proves different. Rape victims are given anonymity in court but the accused is not. It's not helped by the occasional false allegation. We've had a couple of those where it got to court and the man was branded a rapist in the newspapers. I won't bore you with the details but in the latest case the evidence that emerged was so great that not only was the case dropped but the crown prosecution service charged the woman with conspiring to pervert the course of justice. Sadly she killed herself rather than face trial. Obviously a very disturbed lady.

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Um. Are you talking about the Eleanor de Freitas case? Because your claim about "great evidence" of a false accusation runs directly contrary to all the coverage I've read on it. The police believed her allegation against Alexander Economou but didn't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, her alleged rapist spent over 200,000 pounds of his own money on a private prosecution before the CPS took that over, and even the CPS' head has expressed concerns over that decision.

I'm tired of rape apologists abusing the principle of "innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt" to turn "not enough evidence to convict" into "false accusation".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ged-with-making-false-accusation-9846505.html

The 23-year-old said she was allegedly drugged and raped by a male associate late in 2012. She did not report the rape for some time after the event and she was told by police they could not proceed further because there was not a realistic chance of conviction.

However, the CPS decided to prosecute Ms De Freitas for allegedly fabricating the rape claims, after the man she accused of attacking her had reportedly spent £200,000 on pursing bringing a private prosecution against her. The CPS took over the private prosecution.

The CPS were informed by the detective who investigated the rape allegation there was no evidence she had lied and the crime was recorded as rape.

...

Her father David told the newspaper his daughter was a “vulnerable young woman diagnosed with bipolar”, who made a complaint of rape which resulted in her becoming “the subject of legal proceedings”. He said his daughter was facing trial despite the fact the police did not believe there was a case against her.

Ms Saunders [Director of Public Prosecutions] is now personally investigating her case. She said she was "very saddened" by Ms de Freitas tragic death and said she has asked those who worked on the case for a "full explanation"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eleanor-de-freitas-rape-case-4585605

Police believed her allegation of rape to be genuine but a case could not be brought because of a lack of evidence due to the gap in time between the alleged rape and her reporting of it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-freitas-cps-humane-decisions-alison-saunders

The case of Eleanor de Freitas, who killed herself days before she was due to face trial accused of making up a rape allegation, appears to contain all of the components that make the issue of prosecutorial mishandling so explosive.

De Freitas reported the alleged rape to the police, who were unable to build a case sufficient to predict that it would be successful at trial. She was herself vulnerable, suffering from bipolar disorder.

But while that fact might have afforded her some legitimate measure of protection, the weight of the system appears to have been deployed against her. When the case against her alleged attacker was dropped, he apparently spent £200,000 pursuing a private prosecution, which was then taken over – on the public’s behalf – by the Crown Prosecution Service. That seems questionable but there are question marks too about the CPS’s stewardship of the case against De Freitas.

This morning her father David, struggling for composure on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, claimed the CPS failed to disclose in good time material that might have assuaged Eleanor’s fear about the ordeal she would face in court. She was a bright and clever young woman, he said. She had apparently been told by police that there was no evidence that her claim of rape had been fabricated. In the end, the pursuit of her “was soul destroying and it ground her down”, her father said.

Does it matter?

Even after creating a Lit account, you're still an Anonymous user, the only difference being that you have a name that other anonymous people can refer you to.

It doesn't matter who's posting a comment on your story. It's the content that matters.

Lit gives you the option to delete comments and reject anonymous feedback. Your choice to do anything you wish to.

Lit is basically a free website that has numerous new visitors each day and many new users joining the community on a daily basis. Many visitors do not want to associate themselves with the website in any way, so Lit provides them the option to comment and vote anonymously, if they wish to.

It may seem to be unfair from an author's point of view, but it's really good for readers and visitors.


Pros and cons for everything exists in the internet. You have the option to walk away or Fight if you don't like it. God knows how many debates will rage on this thing, but that's that.

TheSoulfulBard said:

Even after creating a Lit account, you're still an Anonymous user, the only difference being that you have a name that other anonymous people can refer you to.

It doesn't matter who's posting a comment on your story. It's the content that matters.

Lit gives you the option to delete comments and reject anonymous feedback. Your choice to do anything you wish to.

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Yes, it can matter. Even though a named poster usually isn't connected to a real person, over time their posts start to sort out the relevance and expertise of their critical comments. After establishing over time that they do know what they are talking about on the topic under discussion, their comments start to have value that a sheer stranger's comments wouldn't.

If a named author whose story writing you respect leaves a comment on one of your stories, it jolly well will (and should) have more meaning to you than an anonymous comment does.

sr71plt said:

Yes, it can matter. Even though a named poster usually isn't connected to a real person, over time their posts start to sort out the relevance and expertise of their critical comments. After establishing over time that they do know what they are talking about on the topic under discussion, their comments start to have value that a sheer stranger's comments wouldn't.

If a named author whose story writing you respect leaves a comment on one of your stories, it jolly well will (and should) have more meaning to you than an anonymous comment does.

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Fair point, that one with the author. I can readily acquiesce with that.

The First case. IMO, would be true for a rare few posters out here. Most of the comments out here are plain "Hawt damn" or "It sucks". Very few people go out of their way to critique a story well enough.

Not saying it was wrong, just not many commenter active enough to do that.

sr71plt said:

Yes, it can matter. Even though a named poster usually isn't connected to a real person, over time their posts start to sort out the relevance and expertise of their critical comments. After establishing over time that they do know what they are talking about on the topic under discussion, their comments start to have value that a sheer stranger's comments wouldn't.

If a named author whose story writing you respect leaves a comment on one of your stories, it jolly well will (and should) have more meaning to you than an anonymous comment does.

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This is true. I had several experienced authors come forward to praise my story and it meant a lot to me. Although, most of them came forward via the story feedback option rather than the public comments. Either way, their words inspire me to continue writing

Bramblethorn said:

Um. Are you talking about the Eleanor de Freitas case? Because your claim about "great evidence" of a false accusation runs directly contrary to all the coverage I've read on it. The police believed her allegation against Alexander Economou but didn't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, her alleged rapist spent over 200,000 pounds of his own money on a private prosecution before the CPS took that over, and even the CPS' head has expressed concerns over that decision.

I'm tired of rape apologists abusing the principle of "innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt" to turn "not enough evidence to convict" into "false accusation".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ged-with-making-false-accusation-9846505.html

The 23-year-old said she was allegedly drugged and raped by a male associate late in 2012. She did not report the rape for some time after the event and she was told by police they could not proceed further because there was not a realistic chance of conviction.

However, the CPS decided to prosecute Ms De Freitas for allegedly fabricating the rape claims, after the man she accused of attacking her had reportedly spent £200,000 on pursing bringing a private prosecution against her. The CPS took over the private prosecution.

The CPS were informed by the detective who investigated the rape allegation there was no evidence she had lied and the crime was recorded as rape.

...

Her father David told the newspaper his daughter was a “vulnerable young woman diagnosed with bipolar”, who made a complaint of rape which resulted in her becoming “the subject of legal proceedings”. He said his daughter was facing trial despite the fact the police did not believe there was a case against her.

Ms Saunders [Director of Public Prosecutions] is now personally investigating her case. She said she was "very saddened" by Ms de Freitas tragic death and said she has asked those who worked on the case for a "full explanation"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eleanor-de-freitas-rape-case-4585605

Police believed her allegation of rape to be genuine but a case could not be brought because of a lack of evidence due to the gap in time between the alleged rape and her reporting of it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-freitas-cps-humane-decisions-alison-saunders

The case of Eleanor de Freitas, who killed herself days before she was due to face trial accused of making up a rape allegation, appears to contain all of the components that make the issue of prosecutorial mishandling so explosive.

De Freitas reported the alleged rape to the police, who were unable to build a case sufficient to predict that it would be successful at trial. She was herself vulnerable, suffering from bipolar disorder.

But while that fact might have afforded her some legitimate measure of protection, the weight of the system appears to have been deployed against her. When the case against her alleged attacker was dropped, he apparently spent £200,000 pursuing a private prosecution, which was then taken over – on the public’s behalf – by the Crown Prosecution Service. That seems questionable but there are question marks too about the CPS’s stewardship of the case against De Freitas.

This morning her father David, struggling for composure on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, claimed the CPS failed to disclose in good time material that might have assuaged Eleanor’s fear about the ordeal she would face in court. She was a bright and clever young woman, he said. She had apparently been told by police that there was no evidence that her claim of rape had been fabricated. In the end, the pursuit of her “was soul destroying and it ground her down”, her father said.

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I don't think that you can take a father's view of his daughter as being anything less than biased and rightly so. If one of my kids killed themselves in such circumstances I would be painting them whiter than white and wanting someone to pay.

The rape case was started and the man was branded a rapist. His identity was revealed and immediately had to start defending himself some of the money you mention would have been spent on fighting the rape case. When the rape case was dropped the only way for the man to clear his name is to take out a private prosecution. The CPS did not say that they had no evidence. Bear in mind they are still under great scrutiny for spending millions of pounds prosecuting celebrities for historical sexual harassment charges while securing very few convictions. To make such an admission would probably result in the complete restructuring of the organisation. Had the man in the case been granted the same anonymity granted to the alleged victim there would probably have been no private prosecution and the poor girl might still be with us.

The one that I always remember occurred around 1996. Two student who were already having a sexual relationship went out and got plastered the night before the woman's final exams. they had sex and two weeks later she made a complaint of rape. It was one of the first cases under the victim anonymity rule. As the case proceeded it was revealed that she had consented to go to bed with him but claimed that as things got hot and heavy she changed her mind. The case eventually fell apart when it was revealed that she had failed her final exams. It was then revealed that she only filed her rape complaint after being told that, had she recently suffered a severe emotional trauma, she would qualify for an immediate resit, instead of having to wait another year. I can't remember whether the man, a post grad student, was found not guilty or whether the judge ordered the case to be abandoned.

At the end of the case the judge would have said to the defendant what all judges say when a defendant is discharged. "you leave this court without a stain on your character." Oh yeah. try convincing a man who has seen his name on the front page of every newspaper for months, that he has no stain on his character. If I recall correctly he went home to Ireland, where I hope people left him alone.

I am not belittling the effect of rape nor am I apologising for rapists. I am saying that every false allegation sets the woman's case back years. I also believe that sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander. If the alleged victim can protect their identity then the accused should have the same rights.

I come back to my original statement. If you want things to change, sitting on your arse calling people names on Lit, isn't going to do it. You have to get out there and get involved in active campaigning.

You have said "the evidence [of a false rape allegation] was so great..."

I have linked to multiple reports that stated - not just from her father but from the police who investigated the case - that her allegations were considered credible and there was NO evidence of a false rape allegation. If you're going to accuse a dead woman of fabricating her allegations, could you please offer some citations for that "great evidence"?

And, no, the figure of £200,000 was reported as specifically for the costs of Economou's private prosecution, not for his defence. If you have sources to the contrary, I'm happy to look at them.

DeYaKen said:

If the alleged victim can protect their identity then the accused should have the same rights.

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I would agree with you...apart from there's been a few cases of people only coming forward with further evidence once the identity of the accused has been published. The Jimmy Savile case, for one, which has spun out leads in all directions. (Just a shame the authorities didn't act on the multiple allegations when he was still alive...)

I once worked with a QC who'd just finished prosecuting a very grim multiple rape case. She didn't mention much about it, but did say they knew he was guilty but thought he would probably get off until other victims started coming forward, and (IIRC) other forces connected similar cases. Lots of victims. Think he was done for 12 in the end, but there were another 30 or so in unused evidence.

In this thread....or another Ldy_sea made a remark about a woman pissing herself is a defense against rape...

One thing I have learned from experience, when sufficiently beaten by someone who can fight back rapists piss themselves. usually around the time they start begging for their lives.

The other thing I've learned through being a part of several domestic violence cases is that the woman is better off going to someone they know to take care of their assailant than the legal system.

I've told both my daughters if it ever happens to them I will gladly go on trial for murder than watch them tried as whores.

And anyone who tells me it works otherwise in the system can pretty much go fuck themselves because I don't even know why I bother getting involved in these conversations on a site that promotes the abuse of women both in their stories and even more so on the boards.

redzinger said:

I would agree with you...apart from there's been a few cases of people only coming forward with further evidence once the identity of the accused has been published. The Jimmy Savile case, for one, which has spun out leads in all directions. (Just a shame the authorities didn't act on the multiple allegations when he was still alive...)

I once worked with a QC who'd just finished prosecuting a very grim multiple rape case. She didn't mention much about it, but did say they knew he was guilty but thought he would probably get off until other victims started coming forward, and (IIRC) other forces connected similar cases. Lots of victims. Think he was done for 12 in the end, but there were another 30 or so in unused evidence.

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Indeed. Rolf Harris is another serial predator who'd probably be free today if publicity hadn't brought out more witnesses.

redzinger said:

I would agree with you...apart from there's been a few cases of people only coming forward with further evidence once the identity of the accused has been published. The Jimmy Savile case, for one, which has spun out leads in all directions. (Just a shame the authorities didn't act on the multiple allegations when he was still alive...)

I once worked with a QC who'd just finished prosecuting a very grim multiple rape case. She didn't mention much about it, but did say they knew he was guilty but thought he would probably get off until other victims started coming forward, and (IIRC) other forces connected similar cases. Lots of victims. Think he was done for 12 in the end, but there were another 30 or so in unused evidence.

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Yes but you could apply the same argument to the victim. publishing the victims name would encourage other people that she may have accused in the past to come forward.

Surely the purpose of a trial is to asses the guilt or other wise on the charges put forward. The arguments against equal anonymity are that the trial is not just to assess the guilt or otherwise on a specific charge but also to trawl the bottom to see if we can encourage someone else to jump on the bandwagon. Then, of course, there is the trial by media where the only name they are allowed to mention is that of the defendant. They can even print his picture.

Go back maybe a couple of months ago. Soulfulbard started a thread in disgust over a female poster leaving lit because of rape threats anonymous of course(now, if they had to have an e-mail attached to their feedback would this woman have gotten those threats? Think about that one)

In the same time span three other women left these boards and I know one of them and it was from the same form of harassment.

The site's answer is "you can disable feedback". In other words "I really don't care if that is the trash that pollutes my site I'm fine with it, its up to you if you are or not" that's the message here and I'm not saying lit or any other site could solve this problem completely, but they can make an effort to discourage it.

Back on topic I received a comment today( a decent one on a story that referred to me as "LC".

Now LC is what I'm referred to here -amongst some other things- so whenever I see that in a comment my assumption is this is someone from the boards.

And Pilot has a point on anonymous gaining an identity of sorts because over time I have been able to identify several anon posters that leave comments on my story for both better and worse by their language and style.

I have one person that posts anon but always signs with initials and another than leaves a first name all the time.

Bramblethorn said:

You have said "the evidence [of a false rape allegation] was so great..."

I have linked to multiple reports that stated - not just from her father but from the police who investigated the case - that her allegations were considered credible and there was NO evidence of a false rape allegation. If you're going to accuse a dead woman of fabricating her allegations, could you please offer some citations for that "great evidence"?

And, no, the figure of £200,000 was reported as specifically for the costs of Economou's private prosecution, not for his defence. If you have sources to the contrary, I'm happy to look at them.

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The police said they have no reason to believe she was not telling the truth. That is all they said.
The CPS dropped the rape case because they didn't think they could win. That is the way it works. To continue would be a huge waist of public money. You seem to imply that the same people who dropped one case because they couldn't win it , would willingly take on a case, that was going to come to court anyway, knowing they had not got strong enough evidence to win the case. Had they gone to court and lost the press would have crucified them.

I have not accused a dead woman of fabricating evidence that had already been done. All I said was that the CPS said, as they originally did, that they had compelling evidence. That evidence has not been revealed and now probably never will be. Of course you know that which is why asked me to cite it.

If you spent as much time supporting Women Against Rape or similar organisations as you do spouting forth on these boards you might stand a chance of changing things. You certainly won't affect anything slinging mud on Lit

lovecraft68 said:

Back on topic I received a comment today( a decent one on a story that referred to me as "LC".

Now LC is what I'm referred to here -amongst some other things- so whenever I see that in a comment my assumption is this is someone from the boards.

And Pilot has a point on anonymous gaining an identity of sorts because over time I have been able to identify several anon posters that leave comments on my story for both better and worse by their language and style.

I have one person that posts anon but always signs with initials and another than leaves a first name all the time.

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Thanks for bringing us back.

DeYaKen said:

The police said they have no reason to believe she was not telling the truth. That is all they said.
The CPS dropped the rape case because they didn't think they could win. That is the way it works. To continue would be a huge waist of public money. You seem to imply that the same people who dropped one case because they couldn't win it , would willingly take on a case, that was going to come to court anyway, knowing they had not got strong enough evidence to win the case. Had they gone to court and lost the press would have crucified them.

I have not accused a dead woman of fabricating evidence that had already been done. All I said was that the CPS said, as they originally did, that they had compelling evidence. That evidence has not been revealed and now probably never will be. Of course you know that which is why asked me to cite it.

If you spent as much time supporting Women Against Rape or similar organisations as you do spouting forth on these boards you might stand a chance of changing things. You certainly won't affect anything slinging mud on Lit

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I teach self defense to victims of rape and abuse. Now its volunteer so I have free reign with what I do. I know someone who teaches a similar class, but he's paid through a non profit organization and he is limited to what he can teach, it has to be approved.

I teach no holds barred, cripple them and don't stop until they're dead, show them the mercy you were shown is my motto.

I guess the US is at least a cut above the cesspool of India where even the police think rape is fine and if anyone wants to "cite that" go back to the case of the girl raped to death on the bus.....the chief of police said she shouldn't have been on the bus and was not going to arrest the animals until the populace rioted in the street.

Hmm I bet that raped to death story would make a great plot bunny here and I bet it would get approved.

DeYaKen said:

The police said they have no reason to believe she was not telling the truth. That is all they said.
The CPS dropped the rape case because they didn't think they could win. That is the way it works. To continue would be a huge waist of public money. You seem to imply that the same people who dropped one case because they couldn't win it , would willingly take on a case, that was going to come to court anyway, knowing they had not got strong enough evidence to win the case. Had they gone to court and lost the press would have crucified them.

I have not accused a dead woman of fabricating evidence that had already been done. All I said was that the CPS said, as they originally did, that they had compelling evidence. That evidence has not been revealed and now probably never will be. Of course you know that which is why asked me to cite it.

If you spent as much time supporting Women Against Rape or similar organisations as you do spouting forth on these boards you might stand a chance of changing things. You certainly won't affect anything slinging mud on Lit

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You have NO FUCKING CLUE what I do or don't do outside Literotica, but don't let that stop you from making assumptions.

You specifically brought up this case as an example of a "false allegation". I'm glad you're backing away from it, but at least have the honesty not to start claiming you never said that.

You specifically said the CPS had "great evidence" that her accusations were false. Now you say you have no clue what that evidence was... can you even provide a cite to where they claimed to have strong evidence, or was that just speculation based on their decision to prosecute?

DeYaKen said:

Yes but you could apply the same argument to the victim. publishing the victims name would encourage other people that she may have accused in the past to come forward.

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The police would already have that information. Just because they don't publish the name of people who report rapes doesn't mean they don't keep it on record.

Bramblethorn said:

The police would already have that information. Just because they don't publish the name of people who report rapes doesn't mean they don't keep it on record.

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No, if the complaint is subsequently withdrawn they do not have to keep it on record. This is how so many domestic abusers get off lightly. The partner calls the police who take the man into custody, the next day the partner withdraws the complaint and the abuser walks free, with no charges recorded. They only keep records of crimes and charges, Once a complaint is withdrawn no crime has been committed. As of last night we know that if you live in Somerset, only 80% of crimes are actually recorded.
Remember the Soham murders where it was later revealed that in a computerisation exercise one force deleted all of Ian Huntley's records.

If the prosecution is allowed to reveal the name so they can trawl for useable evidence it is only fair that the defence should be accorded the same right.

Personally I would prefer anonymity for both. Rape trials are hard enough as it is without having your name spread around in an attempt to dig up some dirt.