Celibacy

I'm not a doctor, but could it be clinical depression? Abnormally low testosterone levels?

ShyJake said:

I'm not a doctor, but could it be clinical depression? Abnormally low testosterone levels?

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maybe but he wont get it checked. the idea of sex is about as weird and gross as joining a polka band or eating live maggots is for most people.

ohwhynot77 said:

To solve the mystery I am a 36 year old woman. I am attractive, successful (VP, six-figure salary, corner office). I work out 4-6x per week - grueling workouts to keep fit. (I lost 35 lbs.) I look younger than my years. I am fun, funny, outgoing, I pay for nearly everything we enjoy. And yet we have only had sex about 5-6x since our child was born in 2004, and no sex at all in years.

He expresses no desire, but yet he is complimentary of my appearance.
We snuggle on the sofa, he rubs my feet, we kiss (chastely) hello and good bye. We say I Love You on the phone or over text. We rarely argue.

But he never, I mean never ever initiates sex. I have, he demurred.

A few years ago i gave him a fabulous blow job and I said, "So, how was that?" and he shrugged saying, "Not gonna complain." That was the last time I gave him a blow job.The very least he could have done is say, "Amazing." or "Great!"

He hasn't performed oral sex on my since before I was pregnant (so about 2003.)

So tell me - what do I do?

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Tough one...

It is not only not your fault nor is it undesirable (to society, your family and if he could wrap his head around it your dear husband) that you are a successful accomplished woman who has done well in this so-called man's world of ours. You have defied stereotypes and succeeded I suspect on your merits.

You know the song, "You and me baby, we ain't nothin' but mammals, so lets do it like they do it on the discovery channel."

Well according to my recently acquired paradigm shift, you have oodles of so-called "Alpha" traits...in some instances I have heard of women such as yourself enjoying very mutually fulfilling relationships with submissive males...I'm guessing though your kink doesn't happen to bend that way and if it does your husband though sexually not assertive is not submissive either...as far as you know he is asexual...(my guess and this is judgement free but he is getting sexual satisfaction somewhere if only in the shower with himself to whatever he gets off to.)

My commentary above is to guys with the opposite problem LOADS of beta traits...nurturing, helpful friendly obedient kind trustworthy loyal....well you know...

Women tend not to be aroused by those traits (alone). Unless there is a ton of ALPHA male thrown in.

Now since im a dude and fairly alpha once I removed the artificial layers of supplication behavior that dear old (well-meaning) mom and society at large had thrust my way, I do sorta alright with the women I wish to engage with socially...to be honest though my fall back is very beta and accommodating and I EASILY come off as someone that is going to get clingy so I have to watch it...make sense?

You have the opposite "Problem".

You either dump the hubby and go chase some captain of industry whose genitals do not shrink at the sight of an accomplished woman (I am not hearing you wanna go that route) OR you make SLIGHT , sincere adjustments to how you present yourself around your husband...I have NO idea on specifics but can hazzard a guess...(flyin across the hood like luke...)

your blow job offering WAS awsome. But probably subconsciously he feels unworthy of it...so what does he have to offer you really.

his response was crass insensitive, hurtfull, etc...but you didn't get where you are salary wise with REACTIVE or passive responses.

yeah it was awesome...even more so that YOU intitiated and YOU probably enjoyed at the time with enthusiasm anticipating his pleasure...

I once was doing group therapy in a couples group with the lovely mother of my children...we both thought the following was revelatory but I'm not sure we ever succeded in putting it into practice.

young couple, male speaking...

"I go to school and am home more than full time working wife that ius supporting us while I work on my education. I had the time and spent with love a good effort making the kitchen spotless. Wifey came home and DIN"Y EVEN NOTICE. I was crushed and resentful. I sulked a while and pouted until wifey noticed and we had a talk leading to the discussion today on planned resentments."

Basically do what you do for you, for the love of the other person, not for specific outcome based gratification/thanks/acknowlegement...

anyway you were on the right track...i recently counseled a "real life" friend whos friend wasnt putting out...(I every girls dick-loathing gay friend at times)

she woke him and blew him, he offered nothing (as I predicted) she just smiled with at least the knowlege that it was kinky fun to blow her boyfriend only because another man had told her to. That night he came home and asserted himself well. Now unlike your situation theirs was recent trouble probably caused by BF's whore madonna problem (he was raised in the same church as I) and her recently becoming the mother of his child not JUST his slutty girlfriend...

yours will take longer...I would look for ways to serve him in girly ways whatever that is...yes he will frustrate the CRAP out of you, no he doesnt 'deserve" even more than are ALREADY providing, but its good practice...we male mammals like a "lil woman" doin stuff for us...are we perfectly damned capable of doing it our damned self? of course....

now so he doesnt get even MORE lazy to the point you have no alternative for his benefit as well to kick him to the curb look for "manly" tasks and activities for your big strong man to accomplish. I dunno, have him change the oil...get a flat tire on purpose have him rescue you ..(im serious) i dunno...ill think more on this a fun challenge I think.

You I would recommend athol kaye's blog he talks in tangents about "Girl Game" but I either accidentally filter it out or he doesnt have any better idea than I..BUT there are no doubt links to other resources for you.

I noticed apparently he has forums now too, and i liked the tag line..."teaching bad boys to add a little bad boy without become total douchebags."

Re-reading your last post for clarity, something jumped out at me. You and I would be having the SAME conversation about the SAME issue (more or less) if we were talking 9 years ago.

Sure you make plenty so the child isn't a FINANCIAL burden in anyway, but does he maybe have anything in his past, absent father, abusive one that makes him fear fatherhood? (Yeah I know too late he's already a father)

but the point is he STOPPED seeing you as a sexual being once you became pregnant. (perverse, yes and not the fun kind of perversion)

The advice above still holds but I wonder about him...sex addiction type issues. and yes you can be a celibate sex addict....

I'm sure you are tired of people suggesting maybe he is gay, but in that vein he may have asexual or abuse issues...

Do believe that he has a self-sex life at all? Was he (like I) raised to believe masturbatory practices or sinful or degrading? The reason I ask is if he isn't having sex with you and isn't cheating and isn't having sex with himself I THINK (but can't source this) that studies have shown higher testosterone levels (and often libido follows) amongst those with robust, (as in frequent) orgasmic activity.

Does he have any issues (I know hard to tell if he isnt putting out) with erection or sustaining one?

If so never mind your sex life health wise he needs to be checked out...his age?

littlecordelera said:

F. Carolyn Graglia actually goes so far as to blame our defeat in Vietnam on feminists.

...nut case.

Oh yeah, and she also thinks that somehow "feminist" cause people to "become homosexual."

...double nut case.

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Ad hominem. Also, citations please. And "nutcase" is not a refutation.

Hey, have you seen the book by Elizabeth Warren? She very capably points out that the two-income family of today has 75% more income than the single-income family. However, while many of the two-income families are still struggling to make ends meet, she clearly demonstrates that this is caused by overconsumption. Consequently, all that prudent financial "belt-tightening" that would allow a single-income family to meet their needs would allow a two-income family, with 75% greater income, to absolutely thrive!

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Which book by Elizabeth Warren?

Also, are the statistics about married, single income families? Or are we talking about single mothers? That makes a huge difference. If we're talking about husband works, wife stays at home, then the statistics I have read have shown absolutely no diminshed wealth whatsoever. It makes sense, considering the expenses of such a situation are far, far less when you consider the cost of child care, domestic chores, et cetera, being sourced to market labour.

That it is -harder- to be a single worker household is certainly the case. But that is primarily because 40 percent of Americans today make less, adjusted for inflation, than those in the 1960s did on minimum wage (which was a fraction of the population). In other words, the majority of Americans today are poorer than their fathers and grandfathers.

So, with greater disposable income, and with mom and dad sharing the domestic duties - since marriage is a partnership - a two-income family has all the advantages in the world, if they choose to take advantage of them.

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LOL. No, actually. Because men and women alike are miserable when their purposes are not satisfied by the relationship. Forcing a man to care for house is to force him to do something he doesn't want to do by his natural antipathy to domesticity, and forcing a woman outside of the workforce prostitutes her to capitalist interests that care nothing for her, while depriving her of the deep, abiding significance of family life.

It is not that a man's desire for outside work is better, it is that this is what he is compelled to do by his nature and inclinations. The fallacy of feminism is equating masculine preference with objective good. No, masculine preference is simply masculine preference. But it is -masculine- preference, not feminine, and to deny this is to deny human nature.

I will point, for instance, that Dutch women are overwhelmingly employed, if at all, in part time labour. The majority want to spend most of their time in the home with their kids, and many do not work, or work hardly at all. 75 percent part-time labour.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/19/the-feminismhappiness-axis/

query said:

Why do you suppose two income households "over-consume?"

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Remember the housing bubble?

Overconsumption began in the 50's and has been steadily increasing ever since. It's common knowledge, it's human nature, it's been part of human history for several thousand years. Two-income families are a consequence of that thirst for overconsumption, and they were not created by "feminists," as Ms Graglia asserts. As a result, all of her arguments about women causing the demise of the American family are miserably, but intentionally, misdirected.

Also, isn't it rather petty to cry about my "snark" when you have come in here to denigrate an entire gender? You and Ms. Graglia are asserting that women, in their efforts for equality, have emasculated men to such a degree that you guys don't even know how to "fight back." She claims that we caused you pitiful men to lose an entire fucking war! She claims that we have caused you to "become homosexual"! That we women have wrecked the entire American family, right under all you men's noses, just so we could have unlimited sex! It's all right there in her book.

Good God! And all you men were completely unaware! What's even more priceless is how all you poor males became enlightened!

A woman had to tell you!

Look, many males have self-esteem issues. I understand that. For them, doing domestic chores appears unmasculine and every failure in their life or those which might be attributed to males in general they blame on women. Statistically, they probably had a mean mother. But for men, real men, they don't care what other males think. They are men. They do what they know is best and they support their families, the wife and children, and understand that they all have a right to grow and to thrive and to live.

There are plenty of happy, thriving, two-income families around here where I live, and it's no coincidence that there is no shortage of men either.

Unfortunately for you, you believe that a male's entire masculinity is determined by what goes on in his bedroom.

HussarVanburen said:

LOL. No, actually. Because men and women alike are miserable when their purposes are not satisfied by the relationship. [/url]

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Exactly.

I made a hell of a lot more money when I had a guy at home while he was working on his phd. He pretty much took care of most things when I was traveling, gave me space to unwind, and organized our social lives.

I would get lots of offers of sex on the road and other relationships at home, but sometimes he would be too tired or worn out for sex. Home work is drudgery even if you are voluntarily doing it.

I couldn't have done the amount of work I did if it were not for having him, I imagine the same is for a wife.

To the OP, I would like to gently correct your vocabulary:

Chastity is life without sex. Celibacy is life without marriage.

I'm basically chaste because my husband doesn't want sex. It's been 9 years of loveless misery. I manage to force it out of him less than once a year. He found out I was going to have an affair and blew a gasket. I don't understand why he cares who I would have sex with since we don't. I've told him flat out several times I want an open marriage and have even tried encouraging him to ask another woman out so I can have a boyfriend.

You may wonder why I don't leave. Money: when I had to quit my last job in order to move close to his family, I had to take a job where I couldn't afford to leave. So, for now, I flirt online. He's trying to force me to give that up too. Get this: he says we will have sex once I give up chatting online. Roflmao, because after all, we were having SO MUCH sex in the 8 years before I started chatting, not. No, wait, it's not funny because I hate lies that insult my intelligence. Right now, since I can't have love, I'm applying for workaholic jobs to have money and ambition fill the cold empty spot in my chest

littlecordelera said:

Remember the housing bubble?

Overconsumption began in the 50's and has been steadily increasing ever since. It's common knowledge, it's human nature, it's been part of human history for several thousand years. Two-income families are a consequence of that thirst for overconsumption, and they were not created by "feminists," as Ms Graglia asserts. As a result, all of her arguments about women causing the demise of the American family are miserably, but intentionally, misdirected.

Also, isn't it rather petty to cry about my "snark" when you have come in here to denigrate an entire gender? You and Ms. Graglia are asserting that women, in their efforts for equality, have emasculated men to such a degree that you guys don't even know how to "fight back." She claims that we caused you pitiful men to lose an entire fucking war! She claims that we have caused you to "become homosexual"! That we women have wrecked the entire American family, right under all you men's noses, just so we could have unlimited sex! It's all right there in her book.

Good God! And all you men were completely unaware! What's even more priceless is how all you poor males became enlightened!

A woman had to tell you!

Look, many males have self-esteem issues. I understand that. For them, doing domestic chores appears unmasculine and every failure in their life or those which might be attributed to males in general they blame on women. Statistically, they probably had a mean mother. But for men, real men, they don't care what other males think. They are men. They do what they know is best and they support their families, the wife and children, and understand that they all have a right to grow and to thrive and to live.

There are plenty of happy, thriving, two-income families around here where I live, and it's no coincidence that there is no shortage of men either.

Unfortunately for you, you believe that a male's entire masculinity is determined by what goes on in his bedroom.

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It's extremely easy to convince people to drink poison if the cup is sweetened. In this case, the cup is easy sex. Men think they gain the world when pussy is abundant. Not so.

No, it is not petty to point out that your snark about my marriage (of which you know nothing about) was in no way instructive or illuminating.

No one is "crying". I think with your penchant for snark (rather than reasoned rhetorical argument) you missed the irony of you using a gender stereotype to try to insult my manhood. If I'm sad or distressed and feel I need to release with crying I guess I will but I assure you...you aren't making me cry. I'm impressed though that you held back from saying what I'm sure you really meant was that I should not get my panties in a bunch?

Expressing my opinion about the dynamics between men and women and sexual/social dynamics is in fact not demeaning to an entire gender as you broadly state.

Neither you nor the feminists that you are parroting- rather than having your own original thought- (see I can snark too does that make my argument more valid?) speak for all women. If you'll notice Noor is a woman and she spoke to the advantages of a stay at home partner...sure the roles were reversed, but she has an opinion differing from your fatally flawed econiomic analysis.

If you want to hear some demeaning talk about women listen to how feminists describe stay at home moms.

I understand that you don't like the frank tone and tenor of either my input here nor hussar's and that's absolutely fine you don't have to like it but you haven't refuted on a valid basis one single point.

Your basic argument is simply "nuh-huh, you guys are misogynists and my heroines said something totally different"... without giving any of those specifics as to why it is that you feel the patriarchy is keeping you down. Your indoctrination in "modern" so called "pro-woman" thought that you fail to recognize your misandryst mindset and that you and those espousing your views do not speak for all women, possibly even most women. Hard to tell...My perception is that a LOT of women DO agree with portions of your viewpoint at least on a surface level because indeed times ARE a changin' and its full-court press in pur schools, workplaces, and popular culture.

My position is that that isn't for a hard fact a good thing for all relationships...it isnt good for all women either. Even if they espouse your views, if it doesn't get them what they want in the bedroom, what has been gained?

Simply repeating the mantra that this is different times we live in and we've evolved and all that kind of crap without questioning the underlying basis of why it is that things are changing and whether they are changing for the better, doesn't mean anyone on an ndividual basis in their relationship has to choose to go with so called modern times.

query, you are right about one thing. My derogatory comments were out of line. I apologize.

GorgeousGeekGirl said:

Get this: he says we will have sex once I give up chatting online. Roflmao, because after all, we were having SO MUCH sex in the 8 years before I started chatting, not.

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Your husband offered you a possible solution to a problem that has been wearing away at your soul, yet you chose to dismiss his offer. It's clear that those 8 years were painful, and I can certainly understand your feelings. However, those of us who choose to live in the past have a difficult time making the changes that we need to make in order to improve the future.

Right now, since I can't have love, I'm applying for workaholic jobs to have money and ambition fill the cold empty spot in my chest

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This would seem to partly explain what you wrote above. Reading between the lines (and pardon me if I'm wrong) you don't feel loved, and you are bitter and angry about it. You also resent being powerless to do anything about it, not only financially but in inspiring your husband to make changes.

In my experience the problem is usually systemic. Sex is an important part of marriage, but is an obvious symptom of a bigger problem. Communication has broken down when one spouse doesn't make an effort to communicate or the other to listen and comprehend what is being said. It may very well be that your marriage is over in terms of your emotional commitment to it and your desire to re-establish a loving relationship with your husband. If not, and if you have any desire to rebuild the marriage and make it stronger then perhaps it's worth taking his olive branch at face value and giving him the chance to prove that if you recommit yourself to your marriage that he will do likewise. This is about more than sex.

It may be your turn to reach out to him again. Offer him the chance to make good on his offer, but IMHO this isn't about "I'll give this up if you do this for me." That's not sustainable in the long run. This is about the health, quality, and future of your marriage. The fact is that your marriage is emotionally draining and perilously close to falling apart. Seize the opportunity to fix that with both hands and don't let it go. Your online chats are not only not giving you any emotional satisfaction, they are probably fostering deeper feelings of resentment in you because you can't make them your reality (putting aside for a moment the misconception that they represent an obtainable reality at all). Your actions are clearly fostering feelings of resentment in him, or he wouldn't have brought them up as a condition of reestablishing a sexual life in your marriage.

Are you justified? That's not my place to say, but I can say that what you are doing isn't doing your marriage any favors. Take some initiative and make an effort to rebuild communication. Start by acknowledging that if online chats might be a reason why you're not having sex today, that perhaps it's time to put them aside and return your focus to your marriage.

I wish you the best of luck

ohwhynot77 said:

To solve the mystery I am a 36 year old woman. I am attractive, successful (VP, six-figure salary, corner office). I work out 4-6x per week - grueling workouts to keep fit. (I lost 35 lbs.) I look younger than my years. I am fun, funny, outgoing, I pay for nearly everything we enjoy. And yet we have only had sex about 5-6x since our child was born in 2004, and no sex at all in years.

He expresses no desire, but yet he is complimentary of my appearance.
We snuggle on the sofa, he rubs my feet, we kiss (chastely) hello and good bye. We say I Love You on the phone or over text. We rarely argue.

But he never, I mean never ever initiates sex. I have, he demurred.

A few years ago i gave him a fabulous blow job and I said, "So, how was that?" and he shrugged saying, "Not gonna complain." That was the last time I gave him a blow job.The very least he could have done is say, "Amazing." or "Great!"

He hasn't performed oral sex on my since before I was pregnant (so about 2003.)

So tell me - what do I do?

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Have you flat out asked him?

I think this is something you can't keep guessing at and have to come straight out and tell him that you want (no, NEED ) more sexual intimacy.

Does he look at porn? Check out attractive women? Masturbate?

ohwhynot77 said:

To solve the mystery I am a 36 year old woman. I am attractive, successful (VP, six-figure salary, corner office). I work out 4-6x per week - grueling workouts to keep fit. (I lost 35 lbs.) I look younger than my years. I am fun, funny, outgoing, I pay for nearly everything we enjoy. And yet we have only had sex about 5-6x since our child was born in 2004, and no sex at all in years.

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I think it may be a red herring to look at your attractiveness as a woman and success as a person and try to draw conclusions about your husbands desire for sex. This isn't about your accomplishments and your sexual attractiveness. This is about him, and about your marriage. Changing your focus may be helpful.

He expresses no desire, but yet he is complimentary of my appearance. We snuggle on the sofa, he rubs my feet, we kiss (chastely) hello and good bye. We say I Love You on the phone or over text. We rarely argue.

But he never, I mean never ever initiates sex. I have, he demurred. ]A few years ago i gave him a fabulous blow job and I said, "So, how was that?" and he shrugged saying, "Not gonna complain." That was the last time I gave him a blow job.The very least he could have done is say, "Amazing." or "Great!"

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Most of us tend to shut down communication when our feelings are hurt. We don't want to risk being vulnerable again when our lover has hurt us. The problem is that what's really happened is that one more barrier to communication has been added to the marriage. "My feelings have been hurt, so I won't risk being vulnerable again". Part of the work in maintaining a healthy marriage is taking that risk over and over again. To be vulnerable because vulnerability leads to emotional intimacy. Sex is communication and when we make an effort to please our partner sexually we are communicating our desire to have a deeper intimate relationship with them. Your feelings are justified, but be aware that holding on to past hurts isn't going to help you solve your problem today. Have you ever told him that you were proud of that BJ and that his comment was hurtful?

He hasn't performed oral sex on my since before I was pregnant (so about 2003.)

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His issues could be hormonal, but since you've mentioned childbirth as being the time that things changed you may find some answers there. It's not uncommon for men to view their wives differently after childbirth. You went from being (pardon the expression) a fuck bunny to being a mother. Some men have difficulty reconciling the two, and he may need to learn how to rethink that.

So tell me - what do I do?

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Believe it or not, you are not alone. There are a surprising number of women in your situation asking the same question on marriage discussion boards. I don't have a prescription answer for you, but in my opinion the answer to this question is a process of discovery.

First, communicate. In my marriage, things didn't really start to change until my wife understood that our sexual intimacy was a serious problem. She knew it bothered me, but she didn't know how to approach the problem - and so the problem persisted because we were both willing to keep up the appearance that it wasn't a serious problem. Sex is fun and feels good, but it also builds and maintains intimacy and emotional well being as a couple. Things didn't start getting better until we both openly acknowledged that our sex life was putting our marriage at risk. Not on any given day, because we did love each other and wanted to be married to each other, but because over time the absence of sex was eroding our intimate emotional relationship.

My suggestion then is that you first take ownership of this problem. If it's a problem for you, it's a problem for the marriage, period. Don't rug sweep it, and don't let it go on the back burner where it will slowly eventually boil over. Your husband needs to understand that your feelings are the kinds of feelings that lead even the most loving and dedicated spouses down the garden path to eventual failure. It may help to take the focus off of sex, and temporarily divert it to the health and quality of your marriage.

I was able to tell my wife that I felt that we were growing apart, and that her rejection of me sexually (she didn't view it as rejection at the time, by the way) undermined my self confidence and my confidence in our marriage. I think we both finally saw that no matter how much we love each other, a marriage can't survive such a void. Yes, we can choose not to divorce but did we really want to live a marriage in name only? For us, the answer was "no" so we had to roll up our sleeves and do the hard work of looking at was wrong together.

From there, it's an iterative process. Start by getting him to agree to discover what's wrong. Get hormones tested. If they're normal, then look at how your being a mother affected his sexual desire for you. Explore how your wage earning potential affects him. Does he feel "less of a man" because you earn more? Is he resentful that your work, combined with motherhood, leaves you with less time for him? All of these questions can be asked and addressed.

I wish you the best of luck.

Aphroditiac said:

Have you flat out asked him?

I think this is something you can't keep guessing at and have to come straight out and tell him that you want (no, NEED ) more sexual intimacy.

Does he look at porn? Check out attractive women? Masturbate?

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Does he wake up hard? If he doesn't it get him checked out by a dr time.

GorgeousGeekGirl said:

To the OP, I would like to gently correct your vocabulary:

Chastity is life without sex. Celibacy is life without marriage.

I'm basically chaste because my husband doesn't want sex. It's been 9 years of loveless misery. I manage to force it out of him less than once a year. He found out I was going to have an affair and blew a gasket. I don't understand why he cares who I would have sex with since we don't. I've told him flat out several times I want an open marriage and have even tried encouraging him to ask another woman out so I can have a boyfriend.

You may wonder why I don't leave. Money: when I had to quit my last job in order to move close to his family, I had to take a job where I couldn't afford to leave. So, for now, I flirt online. He's trying to force me to give that up too. Get this: he says we will have sex once I give up chatting online. Roflmao, because after all, we were having SO MUCH sex in the 8 years before I started chatting, not. No, wait, it's not funny because I hate lies that insult my intelligence. Right now, since I can't have love, I'm applying for workaholic jobs to have money and ambition fill the cold empty spot in my chest

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Maybe if he provides sex every time you want to go online...

Noor said:

Maybe if he provides sex every time you want to go online...

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I suspect that I'm overstepping here, but I think that it might be worth looking at this suggestion in a little bit different light. There's a reason that you go online to chat. It might be for a sexual thrill, or for companionship, or for an intimate connection and interaction with someone who's turned on by you.

It may very well be that sex is really the heart of the matter, or it could be that the absence of sex in your marriage is exacerbating other feelings. The real problem would appear to be that your husband doesn't understand that sex is important in marriage, and not because it feels good to have an orgasm. Understanding what you're getting from online sexual adventures can help you communicate with your husband in a way that encourages him to better meet your needs - hopefully before you ask next time. Being able to tell him, "I'm lonely. I need to feel attractive and wanted sexually" or even "I'm horny and need an itch scratched" are starting points for exploring how to improve your relationship.

IMHO saying "Put out or I'm going online to get off" isn't going to be especially productive and could easily backfire.

ohwhynot77 said:

To solve the mystery I am a 36 year old woman. I am attractive, successful (VP, six-figure salary, corner office). I work out 4-6x per week - grueling workouts to keep fit. (I lost 35 lbs.) I look younger than my years. I am fun, funny, outgoing, I pay for nearly everything we enjoy. And yet we have only had sex about 5-6x since our child was born in 2004, and no sex at all in years.

He expresses no desire, but yet he is complimentary of my appearance.
We snuggle on the sofa, he rubs my feet, we kiss (chastely) hello and good bye. We say I Love You on the phone or over text. We rarely argue.

But he never, I mean never ever initiates sex. I have, he demurred.

A few years ago i gave him a fabulous blow job and I said, "So, how was that?" and he shrugged saying, "Not gonna complain." That was the last time I gave him a blow job.The very least he could have done is say, "Amazing." or "Great!"

He hasn't performed oral sex on my since before I was pregnant (so about 2003.)

So tell me - what do I do?

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You are basically in the same situation I'm in. Without knowing it I married a woman who is basically asexual. The truth is your options are limited. You can only fix a problem if you both feel there is a problem. If he is happy with the marriage and his sex life you nothing you will say or do will change him. Unless you can convince him to have his testosterone levels checked there isn't much you can do outside of, getting a divorce, having an affair, or staying married and not have sex.
Just bare in mind that this situation isn't s reflection on you as a woman, wife, or mother. It's a reflection of his unwillingness to address a problem in your marriage. Don't let your self esteem get beat up or wonder if you did anything wrong. You didn't. You, like me, unwittingly married a person who has no desire for a sexual component in their life.

query said:

Nitpicking at the semantics of a GENERALIZATION tells you didn't comment here for advice, rather an audience for your self pity-party. ALL tigers (with rare exceptions) are black and orange stripes. ALL panthers are solitary hunters. ALL wolves and jackals hunt in packs.

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Disagreeing with factually incorrect statements doesn’t mean I am looking for a pity party it means you are using incorrect statements to back up your facts. Human beings are not lesser animals. We have something called a soul. Something that is unique in the animal kingdom. As such we are individuals. All human beings are unique individuals.

query said:

We separated so she could live happily ever after under a bridge with a troll..(SHE had no problem dragging my kids to sleep on the floor of her boyfriends one bedroom hovel...and lest you think I simply got the 'wrong' woman for nurturing children, I married her BECAUSE of how she treated her son. She was REVERED in school/church/soccer/neighborhood circles as the IDEAL mom.

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And this is exactly why I won’t subject my children to the joys of divorce.

query said:

Spend less time justifying your cowardice with asserting (yes, in a loving oh so appropriate way) yourself with the wifey, read "gamingmywife". Best case it flips your switch and she puts out you get laid everyone's happy. Absolute worst case you at least get some practice gaming women. Your wife to woman isn't she? You will need to practice trust me.

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I love pseudo- intellectuals like you. First you piss and moan when someone is ‘snarky’ to you, without knowing me you determine that I am a coward. I haven’t insulted you once in this conversation but with your ‘superior’ intellect you have gleaned from a few posts on the internet that I am coward. Who’s the bigger coward a man who lets a wife, who wants to be sexually active, go take his children to go live with a ‘troll’ or a man who has communicated his sexual desire for his wife to her and has basically been told in so many words that she just isn’t interested in sex? And by that I mean sex doesn’t interest her at all. And despite that he stays around to assure that his children aren’t exposed to ‘trolls’?
My wife has no interest in sex. Our relationship is completely awesome outside of the bedroom. No amount of ‘manning up’ is going to change that. Like I said before if I wanted sex I could get it. Hell, there are entire websites devoted to married people looking for affairs alone. Like I also stated before if I had an affair then eventually my feeling for my mistress would surpass those I have for my wife and I would be out the door. Trying to convince someone who is asexual to have sex would be like trying to convince a straight man to take it up the ass from another man. Not every problem has a solution. If it did you wouldn’t have the Mid-East nightmare, China wouldn’t be in Tibet and no one would have ever heard of Honey Boo Boo.
If someone disagrees with you at any level you get defensive and angry. I would hazard that you aren’t over the bitterness of a failed marriage and that since “you know it all” any one stupid enough to disagree with is, cowardly, unmanly, ect. I disagree with you on one simple level, I don’t care what books you read, reading doesn’t translate to knowledge. Hell, Adolph Hitler wrote a book. Your fundamental principal is that all women secretly want to be treated like chattel is fundamentally wrong. If that was the case American women would be flooding into countries like Saudi Arabia like an estrogen driven whirlwind. It reminds me of the lie the Communists told about the workers’ paradise that was the Soviet Bloc and the Soviet Union. People voted with their feet. Just because some anti-feminist ‘academic’ with an ax to grind writes a book doesn’t mean it’s worth the paper it’s printed on.

pplwatching said:

I suspect that I'm overstepping here, but I think that it might be worth looking at this suggestion in a little bit different light. There's a reason that you go online to chat. It might be for a sexual thrill, or for companionship, or for an intimate connection and interaction with someone who's turned on by you.

It may very well be that sex is really the heart of the matter, or it could be that the absence of sex in your marriage is exacerbating other feelings. The real problem would appear to be that your husband doesn't understand that sex is important in marriage, and not because it feels good to have an orgasm. Understanding what you're getting from online sexual adventures can help you communicate with your husband in a way that encourages him to better meet your needs - hopefully before you ask next time. Being able to tell him, "I'm lonely. I need to feel attractive and wanted sexually" or even "I'm horny and need an itch scratched" are starting points for exploring how to improve your relationship.

IMHO saying "Put out or I'm going online to get off" isn't going to be especially productive and could easily backfire.

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I wrote that because she said he suggested she would get more sex if she wasnt online. I agree that no sex is often a symtom of something else.

Noor said:

I wrote that because she said he suggested she would get more sex if she wasnt online. I agree that no sex is often a symtom of something else.

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I have been advised that I should try taking his olive branch of "quit chatting and we will start having sex." I have also flipped it around on him: "if we start having sex, ill tell my chat buddies to go pound sand." The chatting is new, the lack of sex is not. Before venting my frustrations chatting, I tried tons of tactics and got every excuse imaginable.

It's been suggested that I'm now emotionally closed to him and the marriage is dying and falling apart. Nailed that on the spot. The lack of love and affection has been tearing me down to the point where it's affected my health.

One thing that drives me and other sexually oriented people nuts is the idea that sex can only take place when EVERYTHING else in a marriage is perfect. The house has to be spotless, and every bill must be paid, and both jobs must be good, and all issues must be agreed upon in a manner that pleases the non-sexual spouse, and if any one thing goes minutely wrong for a second, that is justification for not having sex.

Here's the deal: work sucks, my sex life shouldn't depend on if your boss was a tool today. Bills suck, we are in a recession, and not having sex won't get that bill paid any faster. Housework sucks, spent 3 hours cleaning today, and sorry if there's still one more load of dishes in the sink, but can I get some credit/nookie for the other things I did do? I've capitulated on everything that comes up, your stupid fishtank I don't think we can afford, watching the same boring reruns on tv of only shows you like, doing all the grocery shopping because you don't like it, when it's my birthday going to the restaurant you want. I let you have your way on everything, and still no love or appreciation.

Every time I meet a condition, there is something else that isn't perfect because its life, and that is used as justification, or there is an endless series of other excuses. "I know I promised sex, but my back is out. I know I promised sex but my allergies are acting up. I know I promised sex but my stomach is upset, my shoulder hurts, I have a headache, I'm tired." Or there's the delays: "we will have sex after this movie, after we get the house clean, after we work on the fishtank, after dinner, after you go grocery shopping, after our friends leave after I just called and asked them to come over as soon as you suggested sex."

It's been suggested that I'm bitter and resentful. Ya think?! How do we overcome my bitterness and resentment over no sex? How about by having sex?

GorgeousGeekGirl,
what people don't fundamentally understand about this problem is that an asexual person is not and will not be interested in sex, period. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do they will make every excuse imaginable not to have sex. You could be the very definition of a domestic goddess, have the sex appeal of a porn star, and cater to his every whim and there will ALWAYS be an excuse not to have sex. Asking an asexual person to become sexual is akin to a homosexual to engage in heterosexual activities. It isn't in their make up.
The only possible hope of saving a marriage or relationship with an asexual partner is through hormone therapy. That only works IF the asexual individual person feels the problem needs to be addressed. In the case of the original poster she has suggested that her husband look into a medical reason for his lack of sexual desire and he apparently refused. I know that people are generally trying to be helpful and so I take their suggestions with the spirit that it's intended but they don't seem to understand that we have tried to be proactive with this problem to achieve a healthy, happy marriage. There also seems to be amongst some that if there is a problem in the marriage because of a lack of desire for sex that it is obviously because of something the other person has either done or not done that has caused the relationship to be at this level. If my wife had an interest in sex but just not with me than I would examine my behavior and make appropriate changes to increase my wife's sexual desire for me.
It doesn't matter if I'm pissy with her or the embodiment of light and sunshine her sexual appetite is non existent. Even attempts at talking about sex make her defensive. For example,
Me, hey sweetie tell me a sexual fantasy of yours.
Her, I like you what you do to me in bed.
Me, is there anything we haven't done that you would be interested in talking about?
Her, No.
Me, Nothing at all?
Her, (with an angry tone in her voice) No! I'm happy with our sex life!
Do you have a reason to be angry and bitter? Absolutely. I was exactly where you are several years ago. As I have mentioned before if it weren't for my kids I would have been out the door long ago. I used to beat my self up over why my wife didn't want to have sex with me until I came to the realization that it wasn't that my wife didn't want to have sex with me, it was that she just didn't want to have sex. Any way, hang in there and hopefully you will be in a position to leave soon. And always remember, Geeky is sexy!

My Two Cents

I went round and round with this for 9 years. When my wife and I started dating we were very sexually active and it was quite satisfying. Slowly sex dried up, at the end I was going once every 3 months. Turned out she had medical problems for which there was no cure which brought on depression. I stuck it out, but since there were no kids I ultimately decided to divorce. Tough choice, but for me it was the right one. Happily re married. Unfortunately she overdosed about 3 years ago.

Sex is a part of a healthy and happy relationship unless both parties agree to abstinence. Why live in misery when you can live in happiness?

HussarVanburen said:

Achieving a single bread-winning household is actually easier DONE than SAID. The idea that we can't afford it is largely a myth. This has been established repeatedly, and it is largely due to the "belief" that it persists, not the reality. Besides, even if it does take some tightening of the belt, the better relationship one gains from it is worth it.

Regardless, women do actually spend more time at home even in our current system. It just means they must do a sloppier job, spend less time on things that matter, and have more altercations with their husbands over the whole mess. Why not simply give them the freedom to be everything to a small amount of people - their loved ones - and not nothing to a large group of people - their job - who give absolutely a fucking God damn about them.

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Ah, yes the GOP myth that the reason both parents work is caused by selfishness, that if people didn't want all the luxuries of life, the gold plated this and so forth, it is perfectly possible and it is bullshit, pure and simple. The reality is real world incomes have declined substantially and having a single working parent for most people is impossible, because basic costs have gone through the roof, and real incomes have sagged, and every economic study has shown that. The Sean Hannity and the rest of the extreme right are the ones with beliefs, they know damn well that greed and avarice on the part of the top tiers has gutted what used to be called the American Dream, you can snort all you want but for the first time in generations most Americans don't believe their children will have it better than they had it, and there is a lot of truth to that, we face a world that thanks to huge populations desperate for work and the internet, people are competing against third world workforces working for 19th century wages in labor conditions not unlike that time. India has established itself as a job exportation hotbed, and as a result fields that paid good wages have seen the value of those jobs plummet (jobs that used to go to American born CPA's now are in India; jobs in research (not scientific, business) , tax preparation, of course IT, have been undercut (and then the bloviators wonder why kids skip tech fields, and increasingly law and such).

Women work because they want to provide for their families, and they also know another dirty little secret, that educational opportunities are strongly tied to family economics, and if they have any hope for their kids future, they know what needs to be done.