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butters said:
that doesn't make you stupid. it might render you unaware, same as i am about a whole lot of stuff, but stupidity's about the inability to learn or - far worse - the refusal to apply the ability.
look at it this way, tod - you've so much to look forward to reading for the very first time! :rose:
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especially Coleridge Kubla Kahn
 
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todski28 said:
WOW! that is amazing
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did you find it sucked you right in with those opening lines? i almost envy you the pleasure of first-timing! :rose:

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.



ahhh....
 
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butters said:
did you find it sucked you right in with those opening lines? i almost envy you the pleasure of first-timing! :rose:

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.



ahhh....
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..
but, education in poetry is a dual kind of thing, I was editing as I read it this time. :(
 
HarryHill said:
..
but, education in poetry is a dual kind of thing, I was editing as I read it this time. :(
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double-edged sword. *nods*
it ruined plenty of literature for me at school simply because we had to view pieces line by line, phrase by phrase, to extract meaning, intention, reasons for choices and so on. good grounding, perhaps, but i always want to read something with my reader head on first, before donning my critical one - to feel a piece first, dissect after the fact.
 
butters said:
double-edged sword. *nods*
it ruined plenty of literature for me at school simply because we had to view pieces line by line, phrase by phrase, to extract meaning, intention, reasons for choices and so on. good grounding, perhaps, but i always want to read something with my reader head on first, before donning my critical one - to feel a piece first, dissect after the fact.
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that opens up a whole other can of poetic worms, as soon as you cross the line from reader to writer, you have to be concerned with why things work, finding out why merely changes the enjoyment of the thing, true your tastes do change, but usually for the better.

Todski, point I was trying to make, was it took years for Coleridge and Ginsberg to be able to dash off something without serious edit.
Coleridge claimed, and it was great
and
Ginsberg claimed, however when and if he did, it was just merely better than average

whereas the rest of us should spend a little more time,thinking things through, trying a little harder getting it right


here I'm also throwing out some anon meat, bite it anon.
read me!!!!!! cosmic dust bunny, also!!!!!!
 
twelveoone said:
that opens up a whole other can of poetic worms, as soon as you cross the line from reader to writer, you have to be concerned with why things work, finding out why merely changes the enjoyment of the thing, true your tastes do change, but usually for the better.

Todski, point I was trying to make, was it took years for Coleridge and Ginsberg to be able to dash off something without serious edit.
Coleridge claimed, and it was great
and
Ginsberg claimed, however when and if he did, it was just merely better than average

whereas the rest of us should spend a little more time,thinking things through, trying a little harder getting it right


here I'm also throwing out some anon meat, bite it anon.
read me!!!!!! cosmic dust bunny, also!!!!!!
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I gathered that was the point you were making, it is a resounding theme one that I have been doing my best to apply.

can I quiz you on internal alignment to see if what I am thinking it is, is similar to the way you read it?
 
todski28 said:
I gathered that was the point you were making, it is a resounding theme one that I have been doing my best to apply.

can I quiz you on internal alignment to see if what I am thinking it is, is similar to the way you read it?
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..
yeah, things aren't falling into their correct um slots yet. wtf IS internal alignment?
 
HarryHill said:
..
yeah, things aren't falling into their correct um slots yet. wtf IS internal alignment?
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Step 3 as a very rough analogy, all the words are playing in the same key
Step 2 you the writer set up the anticipation
Step 1 you the writer define the centre of the poem
Step 4 wrap it up

out of sequence?
Step 1 what is the reason for the poems existence?
write to that and and maintain the tone
 
HarryHill said:
..
you think that cleared it up? Looks like cookie crumbs, tastes like, MMm, Gingerbread.
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Clearer than it was maybe. I forget that sarcasm doesn't work so well on the Internet. But it is another crumb that leads to the gingerbread house.
 
to those to whom I've been merciless, it's a bitch to make comments and more often than not quite fucking thankless and filled with flak from all quarters, but your focus is your own reward, and to those starting out, but for what its worth, I'm proud.
Platitudes, sour grapes? I got sense enough to leave them out of the poems.
 
twelveoone said:
to those to whom I've been merciless, it's a bitch to make comments and more often than not quite fucking thankless and filled with flak from all quarters, but your focus is your own reward, and to those starting out, but for what its worth, I'm proud.
Platitudes, sour grapes? I got sense enough to leave them out of the poems.
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1201- I think most of the flak you get is because people do not understand your comments, which can be cryptic. Especially when you embark on your anon demon hunting expeditions :devil:. Even with the best of intentions, you need to meet people where they are and speak in language they understand. That means giving feedback in language an 80 year old foreign born grandma could understand.

I agree that there are those who react adversely to any kind of criticism that is not full of adoration, but the best response to that is to let them wallow in their glorious egos alone. You are not going to change them so why bother? It's ok to push people to comment, etc once, even twice but if they don't bite just walk away. I suspect you have to be a teacher ( or a dog trainer) to have such patience/persistence! Anyway, just my 2 cents - if this is too Kumbaya for you it's just my conflict resolution training kicking in. Peace out, dude. :rolleyes:
 
Desejo said:
1201- I think most of the flak you get is because people do not understand your comments, which can be cryptic. Especially when you embark on your anon demon hunting expeditions :devil:. Even with the best of intentions, you need to meet people where they are and speak in language they understand. That means giving feedback in language an 80 year old foreign born grandma could understand.

I agree that there are those who react adversely to any kind of criticism that is not full of adoration, but the best response to that is to let them wallow in their glorious egos alone. You are not going to change them so why bother? It's ok to push people to comment, etc once, even twice but if they don't bite just walk away. I suspect you have to be a teacher ( or a dog trainer) to have such patience/persistence! Anyway, just my 2 cents - if this is too Kumbaya for you it's just my conflict resolution training kicking in. Peace out, dude. :rolleyes:
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yeh, i know been taking lessons
in conflict resolution
 
Des, been here 9 years, some of these people are plants (poison pawns). Some of this is to weed them out. Plus those that are not plants, some are free riders, it is relatively easy to tell the shy ones, from the duds, and from, say, persons of interest. I created an Alt once to tailor a poem so a particular person in new poems would react to it, that was a veracity test, a test of consistency of taste in style. Rybka passed. I don't have a problem with that. That is quite different from the "outing" to teach a certain person "manners" that blew up in the outer's face.

I've never been a big fan of Hegemony games that go on here. Getting people involved and thinking and noticing patterns , which is also the key element of poetic construction, is not a bad thing.
 
Most people here don't want to learn and grow so criticism is lost on them. Kind of sad really, but I guess to each their own.
 
twelveoone said:
Des, been here 9 years, some of these people are plants (poison pawns). Some of this is to weed them out. Plus those that are not plants, some are free riders, it is relatively easy to tell the shy ones, from the duds, and from, say, persons of interest. I created an Alt once to tailor a poem so a particular person in new poems would react to it, that was a veracity test, a test of consistency of taste in style. Rybka passed. I don't have a problem with that. That is quite different from the "outing" to teach a certain person "manners" that blew up in the outer's face.

I've never been a big fan of Hegemony games that go on here. Getting people involved and thinking and noticing patterns , which is also the key element of poetic construction, is not a bad thing.
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I think part of the issue in where you receive flak is your unprejudiced judgement, a poem stands up on its own merit or not. there is no I like you therefore you deserve a higher mark, black and white. which is the way judgement should be, however the over exuberance of voiced opinion can lead to misunderstandings. your tact and decorum can be miles out of alignment, me if something isn't about to kill me, or put me in hospital then I normally don't care so much lol.

plus I know where I stand in terms of ability so people looking down on my work is what I expect I have only been trying to write for 3 months and I want to learn. I agree that dissecting what makes a poem work is a great learning tool but maybe the phrasing is what ruffles so many feathers. A comment you made on mine I think leap free I could have gotten teary eyed over it but like I said no issues here. may not be the way you want to comment and I wont try and change that, but just point out a way you might be able to calm down all the death to 1201 comments and anon's chasing your tail.
 
todski28 said:
I think part of the issue in where you receive flak is your unprejudiced judgement, a poem stands up on its own merit or not. there is no I like you therefore you deserve a higher mark, black and white. which is the way judgement should be, however the over exuberance of voiced opinion can lead to misunderstandings. your tact and decorum can be miles out of alignment, me if something isn't about to kill me, or put me in hospital then I normally don't care so much lol.

plus I know where I stand in terms of ability so people looking down on my work is what I expect I have only been trying to write for 3 months and I want to learn. I agree that dissecting what makes a poem work is a great learning tool but maybe the phrasing is what ruffles so many feathers. A comment you made on mine I think leap free I could have gotten teary eyed over it but like I said no issues here. may not be the way you want to comment and I wont try and change that, but just point out a way you might be able to calm down all the death to 1201 comments and anon's chasing your tail.
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trust me, I tailor, who gets hit the hardest are generally guys that can take it
you, E, etc.
after that - complete and total fuck-offs, but with a different lesson in mind, i.e. serial submitters and shelf cloggers
and so on down the ladder, and I am often rather gentle to a new poet that may be timid, in one case an Alt, who did it to 'out' me, for praising bad poetry.

The Anons are a persistent problem and furnish me with a source of amusement, however, some in the past have been hurt by them. And at least twice I have been accused of being the said Anon. Like I'm afraid to tell you. Right.

There is no reason that their vote should count. Lit could very easily set it up, so they think their votes do, but not have it register. heh, heh, instead of the dubious sweeps that they perform. Which might not be a bad idea when it comes to Tazz.
 
Wasn't sure where else to put this, but here seems right.

Your comment in new poem recommends regarding SusanSnows piece, the "two's" you mention, would that be the double alliteration as a standout, thus making it the "core" of the poem or focal point that gives it internal alignment?
 
todski28 said:
Wasn't sure where else to put this, but here seems right.

Your comment in new poem recommends regarding SusanSnows piece, the "two's" you mention, would that be the double alliteration as a standout, thus making it the "core" of the poem or focal point that gives it internal alignment?
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yes, and she tells you also
Red between two fingers.

A rather tight and cynical poem

She said you were no good.
But you were my hero:
died

And she is

Sinking every shot.

or maybe I'm reading way too much into it, but there is an invisible reference to holes here. This is packed.
 
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