Old 03-12-2019, 07:22 PM   #51
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Why would the EU not support Norway style soft Brexit?
Still in customs Union and single market. Still paying for the privilege. EU gets access to the UK market. Still gets UK money. What's not to like?
Because the UK gets the benefits without contributing as much as the EU would want. If Norway-style was suitable, the Brexit deal negotiated by Theresa May would be it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:27 PM   #52
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Because the UK gets the benefits without contributing as much as the EU would want. If Norway-style was suitable, the Brexit deal negotiated by Theresa May would be it.
Wrong. Theresa May ruled out Norway by refusing free access for people. That's why it's not on the table. Nothing to do with the EU. If Britain wanted the same deal as Norway it could have it tomorrow. The problem is Britain thinks it's special and deserves a better deal than Norway and any existing EU member
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:56 AM   #53
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And what about the option that Europe is fed up with Britain and just tells them to leave asap? No more negotiations, no more waste of time, no delays but just ripping off the bandaid?
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:22 AM   #54
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And what about the option that Europe is fed up with Britain and just tells them to leave asap? No more negotiations, no more waste of time, no delays but just ripping off the bandaid?
It's the cloak of uncertainty that's so frustrating. It's like getting economists to agree on anything. All the smarmy pundits are giving us a load of bullshit. Cameron should be lynched for what he did.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:48 AM   #55
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And what about the option that Europe is fed up with Britain and just tells them to leave asap? No more negotiations, no more waste of time, no delays but just ripping off the bandaid?
Because that would do untold damage to one of the member states, Ireland, and all 27 countries have to agree on the deal. If Ireland says NO then the EU can't just say get out. That is also the current sticking point on the deal. Ireland is insistent on having an open border which would leave Britain as a backdoor into Europe for any country without an EU trade deal. The current EU offer is designed to give Ireland what they want while closing the back door.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:57 PM   #56
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It just gets better. More chaos in Westminster tonight. These people could not organize a piss up in a brewery
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:29 AM   #57
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It just gets better. More chaos in Westminster tonight. These people could not organize a piss up in a brewery
The thinking now is that Theresa May is taking a leaf out of Chris Grayling's book. She is trying to fail her way to success. She now plans to put the same deal before Parliament AGAIN. Unlike failing Grayling she stands a chance of pulling it off.

You have to love the Irony here. The person who said a second referendum would be a betrayal of democracy is making Parliament vote for the third time on the same deal.

The idea is that as it gets closer to leaving day it really will be "My Deal or No Deal".
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:48 AM   #58
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The thinking now is that Theresa May is taking a leaf out of Chris Grayling's book. She is trying to fail her way to success. She now plans to put the same deal before Parliament AGAIN. Unlike failing Grayling she stands a chance of pulling it off.

You have to love the Irony here. The person who said a second referendum would be a betrayal of democracy is making Parliament vote for the third time on the same deal.

The idea is that as it gets closer to leaving day it really will be "My Deal or No Deal".
With moggie and Borris jumping up and down playing knock down ginger on the doorbells of the Palace of Westminster
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:20 PM   #59
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Donald Trump: "I'm surprised at how badly it's all gone," I gave Theresa May "ideas on how to negotiate... she didn't listen"

It's complicated; it's very complicated, you know?

It looks like 'Hotel California', or 'The Terminal'.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:31 PM   #60
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Donald Trump: "I'm surprised at how badly it's all gone," I gave Theresa May "ideas on how to negotiate... she didn't listen"

It's complicated; it's very complicated, you know?

It looks like 'Hotel California', or 'The Terminal'.
President Trump doesn't understand that the British Prime Minister isn't the Head of State*, doesn't have executive powers, is 'first among equals' and can be removed by her own political party.

When her party is split, has no majority in Parliament except with the help of the DUP, it's negotiating with her own so-called supporters that is impossible.

As for the whole of Parliament? The Liberals and SNP do not want Brexit and the Labour Party changes its stance frequently. There is no consensus for any particular outcome.

Note* Perhaps he does because he has met the Queen. But the rest? Unlikely.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:59 PM   #61
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President Trump doesn't understand that the British Prime Minister isn't the Head of State*, doesn't have executive powers, is 'first among equals' and can be removed by her own political party.

When her party is split, has no majority in Parliament except with the help of the DUP, it's negotiating with her own so-called supporters that is impossible.

As for the whole of Parliament? The Liberals and SNP do not want Brexit and the Labour Party changes its stance frequently. There is no consensus for any particular outcome.

Note* Perhaps he does because he has met the Queen. But the rest? Unlikely.
It looks like even 'no solution' is no option.

'Not Leaving' is no option, 'Deal' is no option, 'No Deal' is no option... What are they hoping for; for Europe to grant all of their wishes, and even to solve their own contradictions? I think the last little bit of goodwill within Europe to Britain is quickly deteriorating; I don't expect much of a helping hand from our side. Hope not...

Perhaps it's election-time; it seems unlikely that the current politicians are going to tackle this Gordian Knot. Have a delay of the decision, elect new troupes, and make them start from the beginning, every option open to start with.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:08 PM   #62
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It looks like even 'no solution' is no option.

I think the last little bit of goodwill within Europe to Britain is quickly deteriorating; I don't expect much of a helping hand from our side. Hope not...

What goodwill??

Britain is just a cash cow to the EU.

All they want is to fuckin' milk it as they see fit.

The whole reason so many in the UK wanted to leave in the first place.

From what I've heard it seems the Uk needs to give the EU the finger and not a god damn penny more.

Fucking shame the British let the EU fuck them dry for as long as they have.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:15 PM   #63
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What goodwill??

Britain is just a cash cow to the EU.

All they want is to fuckin' milk it as they see fit.

The whole reason so many in the UK wanted to leave in the first place.

From what I've heard it seems the Uk needs to give the EU the finger and not a god damn penny more.

Fucking shame the British let the EU fuck them dry for as long as they have.
Never considered you to be the bright one...
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:15 PM   #64
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It looks like even 'no solution' is no option.

'Not Leaving' is no option, 'Deal' is no option, 'No Deal' is no option... What are they hoping for; for Europe to grant all of their wishes, and even to solve their own contradictions? I think the last little bit of goodwill within Europe to Britain is quickly deteriorating; I don't expect much of a helping hand from our side. Hope not...

Perhaps it's election-time; it seems unlikely that the current politicians are going to tackle this Gordian Knot. Have a delay of the decision, elect new troupes, and make them start from the beginning, every option open to start with.
'No Deal' has been ruled out by the UK Parliament yesterday but that is only advisory, not mandatory. If the EU does not agree an extension, No Deal might still happen on 29 March.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:16 PM   #65
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Yep pretty much, I would only add: that a general election should have been held before article 50 was invoke, so that we could take the time to work out and discuss an exit strategy and return a government with a working majority to carry out this plan.

The majority left from the Cameron election had no mandate and the May election had no majority under either of those conditions article 50 should never have been invoked.

We’re in this mess due to staggeringly embarrassing incompetence.

Woof!
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:30 PM   #66
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This afternoon the House of Commons overwhelmingly rejected the so-called 'Peoples' Vote' - a second referendum on Brexit.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:06 PM   #67
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And what about the option that Europe is fed up with Britain and just tells them to leave asap? No more negotiations, no more waste of time, no delays but just ripping off the bandaid?
Because that would do untold damage to one of the member states, Ireland, and all 27 countries have to agree on the deal. If Ireland says NO then the EU can't just say get out. That is also the current sticking point on the deal. Ireland is insistent on having an open border which would leave Britain as a backdoor into Europe for any country without an EU trade deal. The current EU offer is designed to give Ireland what they want while closing the back door.
I doubt that all EU countries will support the extension; one veto is enough, and there is enough backbiting within the EU to expect one country to rebel and say no, just to show it can. What do the bookies say; Romania, Hungary, Poland, Italy?
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:22 PM   #68
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I doubt that all EU countries will support the extension; one veto is enough, and there is enough backbiting within the EU to expect one country to rebel and say no, just to show it can. What do the bookies say; Romania, Hungary, Poland, Italy?
Well, that will depend on how much they want Britain out with no deal. So far there is no appetite in the EU for that. Poorer countries like Romania, Hungary and Poland are likely to support an extension as that would also put off the day when the EU has to reduce the grants they give out to these countries.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:31 PM   #69
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Well, that will depend on how much they want Britain out with no deal. So far there is no appetite in the EU for that. Poorer countries like Romania, Hungary and Poland are likely to support an extension as that would also put off the day when the EU has to reduce the grants they give out to these countries.
Many Romanians work in the UK. There were lots of Polish but a lot of them have headed home as the Polish economy is growing faster than the UK. Not many from Hungary have emigrated. The Hungarian PM is a head case , he's the most likely to pull the plug
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:00 AM   #70
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Well, that will depend on how much they want Britain out with no deal. So far there is no appetite in the EU for that. Poorer countries like Romania, Hungary and Poland are likely to support an extension as that would also put off the day when the EU has to reduce the grants they give out to these countries.
I'm not betting on logical reasoning here. Like in Britain, also in the EU, there are some egos in the game.

I do hope for a good solution. I hope contacts with Britain stays as close as possible, because I think that would benefit all, but not at all costs.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:19 AM   #71
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'No Deal' has been ruled out by the UK Parliament yesterday but that is only advisory, not mandatory.
Bit like the referendum then. Strange thing is that magically became mandatory but decisions by the governing body of the land don't.

Theresa May can make Parliament vote on the same deal as many times as she likes but offering the people a second vote is "a betrayal of Democracy"

Anyone else see double standards being applied here?
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:44 AM   #72
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Bit like the referendum then. Strange thing is that magically became mandatory but decisions by the governing body of the land don't.

Theresa May can make Parliament vote on the same deal as many times as she likes but offering the people a second vote is "a betrayal of Democracy"

Anyone else see double standards being applied here?
Double standards seem to be adopted by all parties at Westminster and the Speaker. For just one example, Labour was for a 'peoples' vote' and changed its mind yesterday.

The reason that the vote on the delay isn't mandatory is because the decision on the delay depends not on a vote in Parliament, but the agreement of all EU countries. The UK can ask. Whether it gets? And under what conditions?
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:38 AM   #73
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Double standards seem to be adopted by all parties at Westminster and the Speaker. For just one example, Labour was for a 'peoples' vote' and changed its mind yesterday.

The reason that the vote on the delay isn't mandatory is because the decision on the delay depends not on a vote in Parliament, but the agreement of all EU countries. The UK can ask. Whether it gets? And under what conditions?
No the reason it is not mandatory is that they weren't voting on a bill to be written into law. When they voted on triggering Article 50 they were voting on a bill and the leaving date was written into law. Unless someone tables a bill to change that we will supposedly leave on 29th March. However, there are so many other things that should have been done, but haven't, that date is looking extremely unlikely even without a deal. It is true to say that an extension is dependent on the EU but even if they offer it parliament will still have to change the law before we can take advantage of any extension. Bozzer and Mogger, now have two obstacles to getting their way. They can vote down Theresa May's deal and wait, but if the EU offers an extension they will have to vote down the law change so we leave with no deal by default.

The Irony I see is that the referendum was not mandatory but everyone treats it as if it was whereas the leaving date is mandatory and everyone is acting as if it isn't.

Another irony is that the only reason they are getting the opportunity to push through a 'no deal' is because of the legal action by Gena Miller, an action they roundly condemned at the time.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:00 PM   #74
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I say Britain SHOULD get out of the EU. The Muslims is slavering for the opportunity to bail you out.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:20 PM   #75
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Speaker John Bercow has thrown the UK's Brexit plans into further confusion by ruling out another vote on the PM's deal unless MPs are given a new motion.

Quote:
n a surprise ruling, he said he would not allow a third "meaningful vote" in the coming days on "substantially the same" motion as MPs rejected last week.

With 11 days to go before the UK is due to leave the EU, ministers have warned of a looming "constitutional crisis".
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Mr Bercow cited a convention dating back to 1604 that a defeated motion could not be brought back in the same form during the course of a parliamentary session.

He said the second vote on the prime minister's deal last week was "in order" as it was substantially different to the first, but any further votes must pass the "test" he set out to be allowed.
I don't think this is what May signed up for...


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