IR Stories Suck...

I wonder if part of the problem with interracial stories is that you really can't do them without focusing too much on the racial factor, which inevitably leads to caricature and stereotyping.

In a porn movie, all you have to do is toss two people of different races together and get off on the visual of it. In a story, if you have two characters of different races and they fuck each other like normal people, all you have is a plain old sex scene.

PervOtaku said:

I wonder if part of the problem with interracial stories is that you really can't do them without focusing too much on the racial factor, which inevitably leads to caricature and stereotyping.

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So then smash the stereotypes. And explore the implications of the taboos. Turn the racial beasts into humans. Stories that play on racism -- yeah, they suck.

In a porn movie, all you have to do is toss two people of different races together and get off on the visual of it. In a story, if you have two characters of different races and they fuck each other like normal people, all you have is a plain old sex scene.

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We can go beyond vanilla sex by exploring cultural differences or throwing in special twists. The hot Iroquois woman with kids by black & white fathers. The honky cowpoke and the Hopi sisters. The Balinese woman's odd expectations of her new German husband. The Kenyan girl disappointed that her gringo hubby can't afford sister-wives for her. I wont even get into Mormons and Polynesians...

IR needn't be tawdry but it too often is. Lazy authors...

Hypoxia said:

So then smash the stereotypes. And explore the implications of the taboos. Turn the racial beasts into humans. Stories that play on racism -- yeah, they suck.

We can go beyond vanilla sex by exploring cultural differences or throwing in special twists. The hot Iroquois woman with kids by black & white fathers. The honky cowpoke and the Hopi sisters. The Balinese woman's odd expectations of her new German husband. The Kenyan girl disappointed that her gringo hubby can't afford sister-wives for her. I wont even get into Mormons and Polynesians...

IR needn't be tawdry but it too often is. Lazy authors...

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So agreeing with these comments. So pointing out new IR story just submitted which so explores cultural differences between so gorgeous chinese girl and so hunky american guy. So excellent an example of turning racial beasts into humans while so not playing on racism. So welcoming you all taking a quick look and commenting (and okay, it's 9 LIT pages, but the last page is footnotes) - author so not lazy.....LOL.
https://www.literotica.com/s/strawberry-a-shanghai-girl-in-america-ch-04

PervOtaku said:

I wonder if part of the problem with interracial stories is that you really can't do them without focusing too much on the racial factor, which inevitably leads to caricature and stereotyping.

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Oh, I think you can do them without the focus on the racial factor. Race just becomes part of the overall setting if you do it right, just you use race and cultural differences to throw in little twists. A lot of authors that write IR really get off on the caricatures and stereotyping tho, particularly many of the authors writing black-white stories. But then, for some readers thats a lot of the attraction.

ChloeTzang said:

Oh, I think you can do them without the focus on the racial factor. Race just becomes part of the overall setting if you do it right, just you use race and cultural differences to throw in little twists. A lot of authors that write IR really get off on the caricatures and stereotyping tho, particularly many of the authors writing black-white stories. But then, for some readers thats a lot of the attraction.

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I've written a couple where racial differences were an element of the story, but I never considered putting them in IR because I got the impression readers there were looking for that fetishing/stereotyping. Is that so, or is there a readership for less exaggerated IR?

Bramblethorn said:

I've written a couple where racial differences were an element of the story, but I never considered putting them in IR because I got the impression readers there were looking for that fetishing/stereotyping. Is that so, or is there a readership for less exaggerated IR?

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I don't read IR so I don't know what fans want. My multi- and inter-racial stories, those where ethnicity and color DO matter, focus on other themes. Story I'm cooking now *might* go into IR but won't be fetishistic -- it's more of a double romance. With some group and cousin sex. (Cousins aren't really incest.)

Like I said, I haven't really explored or exploited the taboos. Yet. I'm also cooking SF stories, one of which has our mad professor's time-travel machine taking him back to fuck an Australopithecus and forward to fuck a Yeti. Do those count as IR? Explore the social issues of dating a Sasquatch, sure... [/me tips beret to R.Crumb]

Bramblethorn said:

I've written a couple where racial differences were an element of the story, but I never considered putting them in IR because I got the impression readers there were looking for that fetishing/stereotyping. Is that so, or is there a readership for less exaggerated IR?

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Oh, there's definitely a readership for more nuanced IR stories. All of mine are written around asian girls and white guys and I totally stay away from the stereotypical story archtypes for IR. I have some in IR, some in First Time, some in Loving Wives and I find my readers follow me across the categories once they hit my stories and like them. For a lot of mine, the IR aspect is really just the backdrop to the story, altho I tend to try and work in bits and pieces of chinese culture, but really, its just romance or sex where the girl happens to be chinese.

I wasn't sure which category to drop them into to start with, so my first few stories were in First Time. Try submitting in IR and see. Although I think there tends to be a smaller readership there. My biggest # of views still tend to be in First Time, but thats also a big aspect of some of my stories. I mean, I'm 5 chapters and 80-90,000 words in to "Chinese Takeout" and they still haven't had sex - and #4 of Chinese Takeout is ranked #5 in the First Time Hall of Fame.

Anyhow, IR isn't just those awful caricatures so yeah, give it a try and see what happens.

Hypoxia said:

I don't read IR so I don't know what fans want. My multi- and inter-racial stories, those where ethnicity and color DO matter, focus on other themes. Story I'm cooking now *might* go into IR but won't be fetishistic -- it's more of a double romance. With some group and cousin sex. (Cousins aren't really incest.)

Like I said, I haven't really explored or exploited the taboos. Yet. I'm also cooking SF stories, one of which has our mad professor's time-travel machine taking him back to fuck an Australopithecus and forward to fuck a Yeti. Do those count as IR? Explore the social issues of dating a Sasquatch, sure... [/me tips beret to R.Crumb]

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Hey, why not. Altho an Australopithecus and a Yeti is a bit of a stretch in IR. Neanderthal maybe, but I somehow suspect that might be a stretch for IR readers. Not quite what they're looking for. But a double romance.... why not. The boundaries get a bit vague sometimes....

ChloeTzang said:

Oh, there's definitely a readership for more nuanced IR stories.

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That's good to know. I'll see what more I can do with Native American vs Euro-American culture-clashes. Hmmm, maybe a story of an Tigua indian from Texas mixing-up with a Saxon Mennonite from Durango and an Afro-Mexican from the Costa Chica. I've already done one about a Korean girl and Honduran boy in Arizona, and others with Anglos and Latinos. Then there was that Cree woman in Winnipeg pulling a train with anybody of any color...

Hey, why not. Altho an Australopithecus and a Yeti is a bit of a stretch in IR. Neanderthal maybe, but I somehow suspect that might be a stretch for IR readers. Not quite what they're looking for. But a double romance.... why not. The boundaries get a bit vague sometimes....

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I wasn't serious about the inter-species stuff. That's straight SF. I might tag it as IR for fun.

But the double romance... White guy Dave runs into his long-lost half-Japanese cousin Jill being comforted by her protective black GF Laysha after dumping an abusive BF. Dave and Jill return to childhood closeness. Dave and Laysha are confrontational over Jill but after contention and stress they find they're right for each other, as are Jill and Laysha's close cousin Alex. Cue the Happy For Now ending. PS: Laysha and Alex are both cops. Should Alex be half-Japanese too?

PervOtaku,

While what you say is true, I think some of the best literature takes advantage of stereotypes and cliche' by breaking them down or taking them to logical extremes. I think the focus could also be changed and played with creatively to craft an amazing story that is both sexy and challenges assumptions. The IR category set up for the reader that race is a central focus of the story rather than just an odd detail, but racial dynamics, though a potential mine field, is also full of all kinds of conflicts to be resolved.

ShyTammy,

You're quite right. Much IR pr0n panders to fetishists who want to see African cocks (and maybe cunts, to a lesser extent) reverse the slave-master relationship. I used the BBC trope slightly at the end of my short Make Me Scream! but outside a USA context. Again, I don't seek out the IR category, so I don't know if (m)any stories have strong black women, not welfare queens, seducing and dominating white men. Is that a reversed stereotype? The stereotype is of irredeemable and inexhaustible black studs and sluts, right?

Bramblethorn said:

I've written a couple where racial differences were an element of the story, but I never considered putting them in IR because I got the impression readers there were looking for that fetishing/stereotyping. Is that so, or is there a readership for less exaggerated IR?

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There are some good authors out there like EveryonesaVoyeur – I like his writing a great deal.

Bramblethorn said:

https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html



A similar experiment explored how race and criminal record affect job-seeking:
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager_ajs.pdf

It reports that for otherwise-equivalent applications, 14% of blacks without criminal records received callbacks, compared to 17% of whites with criminal records and 34% of whites without records.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...rgency-medicine-white-patients-black-patients



I could go on all night posting more research like this, but it's past my bedtime. Suffice it to say, yes, the USA has serious racial inequities.

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Put yourself in the position of an overworked HR person working through 1197 applications to fill a position yesterday.

Seeing an application with a 'ghetto' type name and thinking the applicant was raised in that society with those attitudes is not a big stretch, so eliminate that one and go on to the next.

Not saying racism is in any way right, but parents aren't doing their children any favors naming them something like Moon Unit either.

Like it or not most employers want conformity.

NOIRTRASH said:

I go with who I collide with in the real world. Real People shape my mind. Nice people are about as common as two headed chickens. I read it last night in a popular German novel, THE BETTER YOU KNOW SOMEONE THE MORE YOU WANT TO BE A HERMIT. Its true.

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“The more I know about people, the better I like my dog.” – Mark Twain

Tw0Cr0ws said:

Seeing an application with a 'ghetto' type name and thinking the applicant was raised in that society with those attitudes is not a big stretch

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Of course the part where the racist stupidity comes in is imagining there's a "that society" with "those attitudes" to be feared in the first place, and that therefore you should feel any type of way about "ghetto" names.

Actually someone who went by the image Trumpkins have promoted of themselves would probably be convinced that employers should filter for names that sound stereotypically white and rural, right? Aren't these the people likeliest to come into your workplace with beliefs that the Zionist Occupation Government is screwing them and they have a God-given right to shoot anyone who thinks otherwise? The people likeliest to be meth or opiate addicts? Obnoxious Dominionists who harangue people about abortion? Bigots who'll insult and demean any client that's noticeably Hispanic, Black, Muslim, Jewish, female, liberal or non-straight?

Or maybe would that be an unfair stereotype? Is a white parent doing their kid a disservice naming their baby Earl or Jethro or Braxton or Kaidence? Or is it nobody else's business -- or anyone's excuse for treating them like shit -- what they name their kid?

Any type of racial or other identity obsession to me indicates an insecure and weak person. "Race" isn't really applicable to humans, what we call that is just another phenotype, like hair or eye color. If you have to base your worldview on irrelevant innate characteristics (what someone is as opposed to who someone is) you probably lack intelligence or an identity based on your personality.

I rather think that having obsessions that turn you on is more stable than having obsessions that turn you off. There are some aspects of interracial that turn me on sexually and I sometimes write about them. I don't obsess over doing that half as much as some folks here do about what they see as negative aspects of that and their need to post to the forum about it.

sr71plt said:

I rather think that having obsessions that turn you on is more stable than having obsessions that turn you off.

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Aye, it's certainly less dangerous in the long run.

sr71plt said:

There are some aspects of interracial that turn me on sexually and I sometimes write about them. I don't obsess over doing that half as much as some folks here do about what they see as negative aspects of that and their need to post to the forum about it.

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I never understood the appeal (I don't think I've ever explicitly detailed the race of any of my human characters) but yeah as long as it's just a bit of healthy fetishism and not an obsession or something you believe in for real it's harmless. Like noncon or w/ever, as long as it doesn't cross over into the real world it's fine.

Cmdr_L said:

I never understood the appeal (I don't think I've ever explicitly detailed the race of any of my human characters) but yeah as long as it's just a bit of healthy fetishism and not an obsession or something you believe in for real it's harmless. Like noncon or w/ever, as long as it doesn't cross over into the real world it's fine.

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And if it's not impacting on you personally, you probably should just mind your own business and not be judgmental about it, right?

CyranoJ said:

Of course the part where the racist stupidity comes in is imagining there's a "that society" with "those attitudes" to be feared in the first place, and that therefore you should feel any type of way about "ghetto" names.

Actually someone who went by the image Trumpkins have promoted of themselves would probably be convinced that employers should filter for names that sound stereotypically white and rural, right? Aren't these the people likeliest to come into your workplace with beliefs that the Zionist Occupation Government is screwing them and they have a God-given right to shoot anyone who thinks otherwise? The people likeliest to be meth or opiate addicts? Obnoxious Dominionists who harangue people about abortion? Bigots who'll insult and demean any client that's noticeably Hispanic, Black, Muslim, Jewish, female, liberal or non-straight?

Or maybe would that be an unfair stereotype? Is a white parent doing their kid a disservice naming their baby Earl or Jethro or Braxton or Kaidence? Or is it nobody else's business -- or anyone's excuse for treating them like shit -- what they name their kid?

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What are you going to claim next?

That 'gangsta' rap and the 'thug life' it glorifies are a myth created by 'whitey' to keep the black stereotype going?

Tw0Cr0ws said:

What are you going to claim next?

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That you're transparently and cravenly evading the question I asked you.

(Let's try it again. "Gangs" are to black culture what the Klan and other assorted nutcase terrorist militias are to rural white culture. Is it okay with you to stereotype rural whites as violent militia nutcases? Is that behaviour you would defend as just one of those things?)

Tw0Cr0ws said:

What are you going to claim next?

That 'gangsta' rap and the 'thug life' it glorifies are a myth created by 'whitey' to keep the black stereotype going?

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Yeah, it's awful when people glorify violence and criminality.

I remember one song about a guy who made his living robbing people. When the cops staked out his girlfriend's place, she heard him coming and shot herself so he'd get away, but when he found out she was dead he went mad and went down guns blazing trying to kill the cops. And the whole thing presented him as a romantic hero! ...oh, wait, that wasn't gangsta rap. That was white folk singer Loreena Mckennitt singing "The Highwayman", based on lyrics by white poet Alfred Noyes.

But there was that song about a thug who stole sheep, until the cops caught him and he drowned himself to avoid justice. Again, presented as a hero. ...oh, wait, that wasn't gangsta rap. That was Waltzing Matilda, by Scottish-Australian white guy Banjo Paterson.

Okay, how about when 2 Chainz rapped about a guy who wants to kill his woman because she's such a ho? ...oh, wait, that was white guy Kenny Rogers singing Ruby, Don't Take Your Love To Town.

Well, Jimi Hendrix did write that song about murdering his cheating woman, right? ...oops, no. He performed Hey Joe, but it seems to have been written by white guy Billy Roberts, and covered by a whole bunch of other white people.

Or what about the time Ice Cube rapped about murdering a woman and throwing her into the Ohio River because she wouldn't marry him? ...whoops, my bad again! That wasn't Ice Cube, that was white guy Johnny Cash, later covered by white lady Olivia Newton-John.

Not to be confused with white guy Nick Cave singing about murdering Eliza Dane for, uh, no reason in particular. In an entire album devoted to murder ballads - a genre that was around long before gangsta rap, mostly popular with white people.

Who was that thug who rapped about how he "shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"? Oh, right, that was white guy Johnny Cash again.

Here, have a handy helping of white people singing country songs about murdering people. Or have a more recent example with white guy Jon Bonjovi singing about wanting to die in a gunfight.

And that's just music. Shall we talk film perhaps? Arsenic and Old Lace. Kind Hearts and Coronets. Ocean's Howevermany, The Italian Job, Heat, Ronin, the list goes on and on: sympathetic dudes, most of them white, robbing and killing.

...

Gangsta rap's glorification of criminality? Real thing. The idea that all rap is gangsta, or the idea that glorifying criminals is a uniquely black thing? Racist myths.

If you manage to deplore gangsta rap for that while failing to notice how often white people do the same thing, you're either a racist or a fool. Take your pick.

So you have been a fan for many years, but you don't like the stories, say, huh? I started writing stories on LIt. because I have always noticed this great divide between love stories and sex stories. I could find good love stories, like "Ghost" or "Love story". I could find great smutty stories like, "Debbie Does Dallas," But I could never find a great, well, written love story that had great love, AND great sex. love and sex. Now aare a few in which I have capture the, love and the physical activities that those who "love" do for and with one another Now I don't know about you but with my actual lovers, including my wife of 35 years, I actually do those nasty things I write about, not to tell 'true' stories, but to use the 'lies' of my fantasies to tell a greater truth.