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What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

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Beco said:
On paper, yeah higher wages might spur consumer spending, but that is only one factor that drives a higher GDP. So in a sense, you're probably right on that one point. I just don't think a union-vs.-management adversarial relationship is in the best interest of the employees like you might think they are.
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And lets not forget the business owner who has their house on the line with this company. what Richard and the others fail to see is how slim margins are these days. a company most likely will NOT be able to pass on the higher costs of wages due to COMPETITION.

Granted, Richard, Marc, and the others have no idea what COMPETITION is

Also, these people do not care about business owners and paint them as evil. for just like the obama, these asshats want government to own and run everything as obama and the others are not only ignorant, lazy, but lack the drive to be successful
 
Beco said:
On paper, yeah higher wages might spur consumer spending, but that is only one factor that drives a higher GDP. So in a sense, you're probably right on that one point. I just don't think a union-vs.-management adversarial relationship is in the best interest of the employees like you might think they are.
Click to expand...

We're not talking about "on paper", there is plenty of historical data to back it up.

So what do you recommend instead of a union-vs.-management dynamic?

Right now, the dynamic for the last 40-50 years has been for management to systematically spread anti-union propaganda and use lobbying power to dismantle unions and reduce the power of the American worker.

I can't imagine that you feel that's acceptable.

We have three major forces at play, and two are staunchly anti-worker: government, management, and unions.

Now, I do realize that it could be argued that some modern day unions are also anti-worker. In those cases I'd say fire them. Start new unions that represent the will and interests of labor, and get this country jump-started.
 
richard_daily said:
We're not talking about "on paper", there is plenty of historical data to back it up.

So what do you recommend instead of a union-vs.-management dynamic?

Right now, the dynamic for the last 40-50 years has been for management to systematically spread anti-union propaganda and use lobbying power to dismantle unions and reduce the power of the American worker.

I can't imagine that you feel that's acceptable.

We have three major forces at play, and two are staunchly anti-worker: government, management, and unions.

Now, I do realize that it could be argued that some modern day unions are also anti-worker. In those cases I'd say fire them. Start new unions that represent the will and interests of labor, and get this country jump-started.
Click to expand...

Unions were important once in this country, but laws have changed there is less and less need for unions. Union membership continues to shrink, why is that?

How is it that GM and others got into such lousy shape they needed a bailout? How about those fools making Twinkies.....

Teachers unions are responsible for our downward slide of education in this country, not the money we pour into it. explain that......and everyone knows private schools provide a better education...

In certain places people are forced to join a union to get a job, how is that democratic? Unions are too political, forcing people to vote for a certain Candidate ........the lists endless why Unions are bad
 
Beco said:
Unions were important once in this country, but laws have changed there is less and less need for unions. Union membership continues to shrink, why is that?

How is it that GM and others got into such lousy shape they needed a bailout? How about those fools making Twinkies.....

Teachers unions are responsible for our downward slide of education in this country, not the money we pour into it. explain that......and everyone knows private schools provide a better education...

In certain places people are forced to join a union to get a job, how is that democratic? Unions are too political, forcing people to vote for a certain Candidate ........the lists endless why Unions are bad
Click to expand...


Please do not use facts, the assmokeies do not like facts
 
here is an idea asshat, find a job that pays more!

omg! what a wild idea to be responsible for one's self


richard_daily said:
We're not talking about "on paper", there is plenty of historical data to back it up.

So what do you recommend instead of a union-vs.-management dynamic?

Right now, the dynamic for the last 40-50 years has been for management to systematically spread anti-union propaganda and use lobbying power to dismantle unions and reduce the power of the American worker.

I can't imagine that you feel that's acceptable.

We have three major forces at play, and two are staunchly anti-worker: government, management, and unions.

Now, I do realize that it could be argued that some modern day unions are also anti-worker. In those cases I'd say fire them. Start new unions that represent the will and interests of labor, and get this country jump-started.
Click to expand...
 
vetteman said:
He's never been educated in the free market and has no clue about state labor laws. Most people who support unionism are marginal workers who need outside job protection, and something for nothing.
Click to expand...

Let's see, teachers, firefighters, pilots, cops, longshoreman, air traffic controllers...sure, they're marginal.

:rolleyes:
 
vetteman said:
He's never been educated in the free market and has no clue about state labor laws. Most people who support unionism are marginal workers who need outside job protection, and something for nothing.
Click to expand...


What we need is a little competition for government jobs. Have an open house and allow people to bid for government jobs. That will help reduce expense as every government salary is based on fantasy performance. hell, obama is way over paid.

on that thought, how much will the corrupt obama be worth after his illegal tenure as POTUS? I'm guessing over 20 million.
 
vetteman said:
Richard believes that companies and Americans in general should suppress their free speech rights, stop speaking out, and be totally willing and complicit in their own demise.
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The Vettebigot has devoted his existence on Lit to explain to others what his political opponents "really believe".

"Ascription" at its finest.
 
vetteman said:
There's an old saying, "those who can't do, teach.

Government is the ultimate arbiter of all labor disputes in the private sector, because we are told it's a benevolent entity, all fair and good, not influenced by the evil profit motive or company politics. The idea that it's employees are being oppressed to the point of needing unions to protect their economic interests is ludicrous. Especially since the civil society is forced to use the angelic good offices of this benevolent force for good to solve our labor disputes.

The truth is, unions no matter where they apply their coercive tactics are businesses too. They exist to force, through coercion and job action, employers to pay their members more in wages and benefits than the market will bear. Their operation is nothing more than an extortion conspiracy.
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Non-responsive. Weak. Cliched. Otherwise, nice going.:rolleyes:
 
Beco said:
Unions were important once in this country, but laws have changed there is less and less need for unions. Union membership continues to shrink, why is that?

How is it that GM and others got into such lousy shape they needed a bailout? How about those fools making Twinkies.....

Teachers unions are responsible for our downward slide of education in this country, not the money we pour into it. explain that......and everyone knows private schools provide a better education...

In certain places people are forced to join a union to get a job, how is that democratic? Unions are too political, forcing people to vote for a certain Candidate ........the lists endless why Unions are bad
Click to expand...


You just went into full meme mode, and ignored just about everything I said.

I realize that the word "union" sends most wingnuts into full on knee jerk reactionary mode, but I have more faith in you personally than that.

Unions have been heavily regulated by the government, who are anti-worker. If you don't realize this, I can school you on the subject if you'd like.

The reasons for the drop in union membership, isn't because all of a sudden workers don't need collective bargaining, in fact, I'd argue that quite the opposite it true in the era of big box stores and multi-national corporations who take no personal responsibility.

The reason for the drop in union membership is because of a systemic anti-union campaign by corporations and the government.

Teachers unions aren't responsible for a downward slide in education. Some of the worst education is coming out of non-unionized states.. how do you explain that?
 
vetteman said:
Richard believes that companies and Americans in general should suppress their free speech rights, stop speaking out, and be totally willing and complicit in their own demise.
Click to expand...

Wait, I thought just a few pages ago, you rallied against assigning viewpoints to other people?

Or is that only applicable when you're defending racism?
 
vetteman said:
Richard believes that companies and Americans in general should suppress their free speech rights, stop speaking out, and be totally willing and complicit in their own demise.
Click to expand...


Conservatives are complicit in their own demise because they're pushing an agenda America doesn't want and then doing the worst job possible to sell it. Asking people for their vote while also calling them scum-sucking shitbags is usually a poor strategy. But as always you're blaming Democrats for your own failings.
 
richard_daily said:
The reasons for the drop in union membership, isn't because all of a sudden workers don't need collective bargaining, in fact, I'd argue that quite the opposite it true in the era of big box stores and multi-national corporations who take no personal responsibility.
Click to expand...
So what!! Workers have a choice, Walmart isnt unionized?? Don't work for them.....

so why the drop in union membership?
 
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vetteman said:
Damn.

Britain's credit rating downgraded from AAA to Aa1
The Government’s economic strategy has been dealt a serious blow after a leading credit ratings agency downgraded UK debt on its expectation that growth will "remain sluggish over the next few years".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...credit-rating-downgraded-from-AAA-to-Aa1.html
Click to expand...

You've been touting "austerity" as a panacea for the world's problems for years.

Britain tried austerity, and this is the result.

Be a man.

Own your failure.
 
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