The SCOURIES reader – for both fans and serious scholars…

BOSTONFICTIONWRITER said:

You know, Stella, please show me one post where someone has offered me genuine, careful critique without following their post with a personal attack and a zero score.

Put up or shut up.

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I'm talking about here on the forum.

Dumb Ass

Ah, you're talking about the forum.

Well, my friend, you only read the end result on the forum. Apparently, you don't read the "genuine and helpful' critiques that I receive on my stories along with the zero scores.

Apparently, you aren't privvy to the nasty PM's that I receive.

So, don't go shooting your mouth off when you know nothing about nothing.

It's quite true, I do not read your stories and i don't read the critiques. I am not privy to Pms-- Private messages, after all.

I see one thing and that is the way you behave right here. I see the way you respond to people who have not critiqued your stories where they are posted. I see the way you respond the the thoughtful, and sometimes even approving, critiques that you get right here on this thread.

If your nasty attitude is the "end result" it's the "first cause" for a lot of other people.

its a beautiful day for the beach...take this story along...

Hi, it’s [size=+2]Gabby[/size] again,

Good morning – it’s a beautiful day in South Florida. It’s so nice in fact that the boss and I are going to jump into the boat and head down into the Keys.

Are you going to the beach today? Or are you just going to sit around the house? Nothing to read? How about trying a 1000+ VOTE STORY today? One of only 105 stories on the site that have achieved this remarkable feat…Let me recommend one… it’s great…takes place in Miami…enjoy…


[size=+2]

Swimming with the Dolphins

​

[/size]

Gabrielle L.
literotican…actress…threadmaster’s assistant…lover…and
ALT killer…and
V.P. ScouriesWorld seminars…and
assistant accountant reporting to mr. tex…and
deputy art director reporting to miss (I’m in charge of bananas)…and
official committee member
literotica royalty distribution committee…and
friend of GBers…and
director of scouriesworld translation services…and
vice-president marketing –Orgasming Centres Inc….and finally
secretary, 1000+ VOTE CLUB
collins avenue
miami beach, florida

And while I'm thinking about it, the only reason scouries pisses and moans about having "all the facts" about contest stories is because the scores are usually low enough on all the contest entries that they don't appear in the toplists for him to cherry-pick through the stats to find ways to disqualify them in his tiny little mind

Now he can fume about that all day as he pretends he's out romping on a beach.

Darkniciad said:

Now he can fume about that all day as he pretends he's out romping on a beach.

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I doubt he would lie about romping on the beach, Dark. However, it may be quit a small beach. Just about the same size as the catbox under the bathroom sink.

davidwatts said:

I would assume that the premise that AH ers do well in contests may or may not include me, since I doubt whether many here knew/know me. I have no quid pro quo arrangements with any writers here, and I did not vote on any other stories in this contest, or in any other contest I have entered here....I do not have a blog, an e-mail notification list or a website, and certainly don't have a legion of followers hanging on my every word and waiting for my command to vote early and often.

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I remember ya You wrote that "cat" story that won the xmas contest a few years back... wasn't it "Norman the Cat?"

Just jumping in to talk about the "blog, email list, website and legions of voters" deal... I've got all of the above, and I have to tell you, after a certain point, it doesn't really help. You're actually much better off in contests on Lit, the way they're currently run, being either unknown, or someone in the AH with lots of friends who doesn't write very often.

The more your name is known (and I've been #1 on the author favorites list now for months, which I almost hate to mention, because Scouries seems to have dropped that ball and I'd hate to have him pick it up again *sigh* ) the more fans you have, sure, but the more "enemies" as well. Name recognition cuts both ways, and like drksd mentioned about that "glowing review" followed by a "2" vote - it happens way way way way more often than folks around here would like to admit, especially in contests, and yes, most of those low-ball votes come from other competitors.

I've said from the very very verrrrrrrry beginning of Scouries rants here on the AH--I agree with a great deal of his ideas about Lit's voting system. I got jumped on and reamed out by lots of "regular" AH-ers at the time for agreeing with him, too. Taking the man out of the message, the message itself has a lot of validity when it comes to contests and voting.

So before you start in about "They have legions of fans! They have an advantage" - just know it's not necessarily true. It actually can be quite a disadvantage in contests. I frankly don't ever expect to win another Lit contest again, unless the voting system is changed. Which is fine... you take the good with the bad.

Me, I just stopped checking scores altogether, contest or otherwise!

The voting system is broken, but there's no real way to fix an internet poll. Scouries underhanded suggestions to "better" the site are doing more harm than good, because his motives and a lot of the more ignorant suggestions ( charging to post on the forum, etc. ) make you question agreeing with anything he says.

The closest you could come to fixing contest voting is to force a login for the vote to count in the contest. Not posting the author's name wouldn't prevent voting by who wrote it over the story. I probably wouldn't bother entering contests if that were the case. Without the exposure of my stuff to new readers, there isn't much point in me putting it out there for a contest where I'm way outclassed.

Really, taking the cash out of the picture is the only way to truly fix the contests, short of having an impartial panel pick the winners. I'd be perfectly happy with a credit for moving a set number of stories to the top of the queue and that blue W meself.

Selena_Kitt said:

I remember ya You wrote that "cat" story that won the xmas contest a few years back... wasn't it "Norman the Cat?"

Just jumping in to talk about the "blog, email list, website and legions of voters" deal... I've got all of the above, and I have to tell you, after a certain point, it doesn't really help. You're actually much better off in contests on Lit, the way they're currently run, being either unknown, or someone in the AH with lots of friends who doesn't write very often.

The more your name is known (and I've been #1 on the author favorites list now for months, which I almost hate to mention, because Scouries seems to have dropped that ball and I'd hate to have him pick it up again *sigh* ) the more fans you have, sure, but the more "enemies" as well. Name recognition cuts both ways, and like drksd mentioned about that "glowing review" followed by a "2" vote - it happens way way way way more often than folks around here would like to admit, especially in contests, and yes, most of those low-ball votes come from other competitors.

I've said from the very very verrrrrrrry beginning of Scouries rants here on the AH--I agree with a great deal of his ideas about Lit's voting system. I got jumped on and reamed out by lots of "regular" AH-ers at the time for agreeing with him, too. Taking the man out of the message, the message itself has a lot of validity when it comes to contests and voting.

So before you start in about "They have legions of fans! They have an advantage" - just know it's not necessarily true. It actually can be quite a disadvantage in contests. I frankly don't ever expect to win another Lit contest again, unless the voting system is changed. Which is fine... you take the good with the bad.

Me, I just stopped checking scores altogether, contest or otherwise!

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Hi Selena.

Norman came in second in 2005, and he was tickled to do so.

Firstly - the mention of the fact that I didn't have any sort of fan base or group to call on to make a block of votes suddenly appear was in reference to my also losing a great number of votes in the sweeps just like everybody else.

Hope that wasn't taken as being anti-self promotion because it wasn't. I don't hold it against anybody for doing what you and others have done. If I wasn't a computer numbskull, I would do it myself. I want readers. I want more people writing to me to tell me that I made them laugh - or cry- or jerk off.

I would like to know where I am on the author's favorites list, and perhaps when if they change it from a scanty 500 to something like the top 10,000, I'll find out. I did scan down the list for my name once when it came out, and got depressed around #100 and weepy at around #250 when I finally gave up.

My only suggestions to improve the contests would be:

1. Make the story scores secret until the voting closes. Secret to everyone - authors and readers.

2. If you enter a story in a contest, you can't vote in that contest. Not even for yourself. Either that or make your voting record public.

3. Eliminate the money - give out a plaque or a leg lamp instead - or have the prize money go to a charity of the winning author's choice.

4. I think the idea of having all the numbers of the winning stories published is fine by me. The last time I had looked, which was yesterday after the announcement came out, Frost Heaves had about 7000 reads/113 votes/4.77 rating. It had about 180 votes two days earlier and a 4.81. Obviously, I have no idea the actual number of votes swept, except that it had to be at least 70. I'm sure that it was done for good reason.

I'm kind of embarrassed about the low reads - I guess that comes with the category. I've got a real piece of crap Loving Wives story that makes me cringe that's got 200000 reads.

thanks.

A Leg lamp! I'd work awful hard, for a leg lamp!

The cash prizes work to draw in the other kind of writer- you know, the ones that aren't writing because they can't stop themselves. It's a much cheaper way of doing it than, say, paying per story, right?

I'm kind of embarrassed about the low reads - I guess that comes with the category. I've got a real piece of crap Loving Wives story that makes me cringe that's got 200000 reads.

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Eh, my clicks were always low, too, although thousands of hits felt like a lot of reads! My votes never got about 40, but my scores were pretty decent-- except for two stories that people either adored or hated. fives and ones, fives and ones.

Well, the money's probably not going away. I should imagine it's a huge draw for new submissions, which in turn is a big draw for new visitors, which is what keeps the site alive and profitable.

Hiding the scores would have one of two disadvantages. Lots of editing the code for pages with if/then to keep contest stories from displaying scores if you go one way. If you go the other, then you have to put contest stories in their own database for the duration of the contests, and then move them once it's over into the normal database so search/etc. will work properly. Either way represents a lot of coding.

I really have no problem with disallowing voting by anyone entered in the contest. Don't think it will make a hilla beans worth of difference, but I've got no problem with it. Except on stories that struggle to make the qualification bar, every author in a contest couldn't possibly tip the scales one way or another against the overwhelming tide of the general readership. Any statistically relevant change would probably come from the fanbase of the authors, and preventing the authors from voting isn't going to change that.

Same pretty much applies to any other vote trading. Except on stories with really low vote totals, which usually don't represent the top three spots, every person who visits the AH isn't going to amount to a fart in a whirlwind against the regular readers. Once again, the fanbases of posters who also write could have a statistically relevant tipping power, though.

I never vote on my own stuff in contests, but I do go through and vote on as many other entries as I can ( where I don't back-click, anyway ) I am leaning away from making public comments or sending emails because a lot of people perceive that as trolling for your own votes in tit-for-tat. If something really strikes me, I'm still going to comment, though -- damn the perceptions

Don't have any problem with displaying the rankings of the stories with all stats at the close of the contest, either. It might even be interesting to see a snapshot at the close of the contest, along with a current listing. Most of the time, the scores on contest stories steadily creep up once all the contest scrutiny has passed ( except for the winners, which have just as much chance of a death spiral from sour grapes votes )

When you boil it down, though, every suggestion scouries makes is directly aimed at either ensuring he wins every contest, or can at least find some way to disqualify every other story in his mind so he should have won.

Dark

Not showing scores wouldn't be that hard if you use a second small data base to hold the contest stories. The vote box would be 0.00 in all cases with a second score box to hold the true scores. All views and votes would show as normal. Then at the end of the contest, the secondary score box is dumped to the main one and everything is transferred to the main data base.

It would also make it easy to prepare a printout of the scores of all stories involved.

TxRad said:

Dark

Not showing scores wouldn't be that hard if you use a second small data base to hold the contest stories. The vote box would be 0.00 in all cases with a second score box to hold the true scores. All views and votes would show as normal. Then at the end of the contest, the secondary score box is dumped to the main one and everything is transferred to the main data base.

It would also make it easy to prepare a printout of the scores of all stories involved.

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Still involves recoding of a couple of pages with if/then, though. Even those miniscule amounts of processor ticks would add up quickly on a site this size.

Could also bugger up the automation of the New page. I get the feeling that an effort/benefit analysis of hiding the scores for contest stories is going to fall heavily on the side of effort.

Darkniciad said:

Still involves recoding of a couple of pages with if/then, though. Even those miniscule amounts of processor ticks would add up quickly on a site this size.

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Listen to Dark!

You guys know how, sometimes, lit takes forever to load? This would add a little more time per page look, and a lot more time in toto.

Stella_Omega said:

Listen to Dark!

You guys know how, sometimes, lit takes forever to load? This would add a little more time per page look, and a lot more time in toto.

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Had to learn this the hard way when I was helping code the battle system for IPB boards. I'd never coded anything in any language for a site getting real hits, and that mod is all over creation. The gripes were fast and furious until I tightened up a lot of my queries and shunted off lesser used features onto their own pages where they were only using ticks when someone wanted them.

Now if I could just manage the motivation to code my real time LST3K editor and fan riff project

Darkniciad said:

Had to learn this the hard way when I was helping code the battle system for IPB boards. I'd never coded anything in any language for a site getting real hits, and that mod is all over creation. The gripes were fast and furious until I tightened up a lot of my queries and shunted off lesser used features onto their own pages where they were only using ticks when someone wanted them.

Now if I could just manage the motivation to code my real time LST3K editor and fan riff project

Click to expand...

I'm really interested in Ajax, and Ruby on Rails. It looks like a faster and simpler way to do a lot of stuff, with far less server load-- I signed up for a project class, but... welll.... you know....

I amaze myself at how little I know about computers. Thanks for the info.

I suppose you guys are right about the money also, and the amounts are probably about right too. Enough to catch your interest but not enough to encourage too much skullduggery.

rambling missive???

MOONMAN QUOTE Generally, Romance stories are better written pieces with a lot more thought going into the story. The writer of romance has to hold the reader with quality writing, and a quality plot.


Usually Brian you make halfway intelligent comments. Not this time! Romance stories=quality writing? What planet have you been on lately?

To believe that ROMANTIC CATEGORY stories are somehow better written than stories from other categories is simply idiocy. Utter bullshit!

The fact of the matter is that certain categories deliver higher average scores than other categories irrespective of quality (Sci-Fi, Romance, Novels are the highest). This is the product of the different reading audience for each category and the way they score stories. One could argue quite easily that in fact ROMANCE readers here on LITEROTICA are the least discerning group of readers here.

There is a bell curve of scores for every category – the ROMANCE curve is simply the one with the highest median and average scores. Romance readers are the least critical of our reading groups, and quite frankly the least demanding. They’ll score just about any story highly.

As a quick example: How many times have you read a post in AHLand something like the following – “I never vote under ‘4’; if I don’t feel I can give the story a ‘4’ or a ‘5’ I don’t vote at all”. I’ll bet I’ve read that sentiment expressed 100 times over the last couple of years. It’s an attitude that pervades the scoring of ROMANCE stories and which of course leads to higher average scores than for other categories (i.e. LOVING WIVES) where our readers are more critical.

Don’t believe me? Well I challenge you to try it then. Write a story (perhaps a husband-wife cheating story with a happy ending) and then give it two different titles and enter one as a ROMANCE story and one as a LOVING WIFE story under two different and new LITEROTICA names. I’m quite prepared to bet any amount you’d like to specify that the ROMANCE story will have a higher rating. Anywhere from 0.2 to 0.8 higher. For the same story!

The funny thing is that the lower rated story, the LOVING WIVES one (with no chance of winning a contest), will almost surely have more ‘views’ and ‘comments’ than the higher rated ROMANCE one.

The irony is, as I pointed out in a post quite a while ago, that ROMANCE category stories in many ways are the laughing stock of serious publishers and critiques. ROMANCE authors are generally regarded with derision by serious writers. Not in AHland!

Jim

p.s. did you really describe my post as a “rambling missive” in your post #2468?

scouries said:

The irony is, as I pointed out in a post quite a while ago, that ROMANCE category stories in many ways are the laughing stock of serious publishers and critiques. ROMANCE authors are generally regarded with derision by serious writers. Not in AHland!

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So, oh wise *snicker* one, how do the publishing world and serious authors view incest stories, pray tell? Where's that section at Barnes and Noble?

He doesn't even have the slightest clue how idiotic he makes himself look. It's almost too sad to be funny.

she's ok...

…I know exactly where she is…

To those of you concerned about the disappearance of the woman known as cloudy please, do not fear.

Unlike her little friend miss jenny, who is taking the ScouriesCure by correspondence over the Internet (but who later of course will need a couple of intensive in-hospital weeks), miss cloudy decided to check herself in right from the start and is now ensconced in a lovely room in the ScouriesTower of the ScouriesMedicalCenter overlooking South Beach.

And I might add that after just a couple of days here she is showing remarkable improvement! In fact her mental outlook has shown such a radical change for the better that she is now musing about also augmenting her physical attributes in our surgical wing while she’s here.

It is now our hope and belief that within weeks miss c will be back home, merrily back at her computer posting away, perhaps typing just a tad slower as she adjusts to her much larger breastworks.

But the tone of her posts will be different….a new, modern, with it, optimistic, heterosexual, obedient woman is being crafted as you read…soon when you click open her FAVORITE AUTHORS list you may just find scouries listed…

jrs

=scouries;26951056]MOONMAN QUOTE Generally, Romance stories are better written pieces with a lot more thought going into the story. The writer of romance has to hold the reader with quality writing, and a quality plot.


Usually Brian you make halfway intelligent comments. Not this time! Romance stories=quality writing? What planet have you been on lately?

To believe that ROMANTIC CATEGORY stories are somehow better written than stories from other categories is simply idiocy. Utter bullshit!

The fact of the matter is that certain categories deliver higher average scores than other categories irrespective of quality (Sci-Fi, Romance, Novels are the highest). This is the product of the different reading audience for each category and the way they score stories. One could argue quite easily that in fact ROMANCE readers here on LITEROTICA are the least discerning group of readers here.

There is a bell curve of scores for every category – the ROMANCE curve is simply the one with the highest median and average scores. Romance readers are the least critical of our reading groups, and quite frankly the least demanding. They’ll score just about any story highly.

As a quick example: How many times have you read a post in AHLand something like the following – “I never vote under ‘4’; if I don’t feel I can give the story a ‘4’ or a ‘5’ I don’t vote at all”. I’ll bet I’ve read that sentiment expressed 100 times over the last couple of years. It’s an attitude that pervades the scoring of ROMANCE stories and which of course leads to higher average scores than for other categories (i.e. LOVING WIVES) where our readers are more critical.

Don’t believe me? Well I challenge you to try it then. Write a story (perhaps a husband-wife cheating story with a happy ending) and then give it two different titles and enter one as a ROMANCE story and one as a LOVING WIFE story under two different and new LITEROTICA names. I’m quite prepared to bet any amount you’d like to specify that the ROMANCE story will have a higher rating. Anywhere from 0.2 to 0.8 higher. For the same story!

The funny thing is that the lower rated story, the LOVING WIVES one (with no chance of winning a contest), will almost surely have more ‘views’ and ‘comments’ than the higher rated ROMANCE one.

The irony is, as I pointed out in a post quite a while ago, that ROMANCE category stories in many ways are the laughing stock of serious publishers and critiques. ROMANCE authors are generally regarded with derision by serious writers. Not in AHland!

Jim

p.s. did you really describe my post as a “rambling missive” in your post #2468?

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UH, Jim, have you ever been in a book story or a place that sells books? Did you see the shelves of Romance novels? Did ya ever see even one loving wives story or incest story?

If you actually believe that last paragraph you wrote then you are seriously whacked and deserve the fantasy world you inhabit.

scouries said:

…I know exactly where she is…

To those of you concerned about the disappearance of the woman known as cloudy please, do not fear.

Unlike her little friend miss jenny, who is taking the ScouriesCure by correspondence over the Internet (but who later of course will need a couple of intensive in-hospital weeks), miss cloudy decided to check herself in right from the start and is now ensconced in a lovely room in the ScouriesTower of the ScouriesMedicalCenter overlooking South Beach.

And I might add that after just a couple of days here she is showing remarkable improvement! In fact her mental outlook has shown such a radical change for the better that she is now musing about also augmenting her physical attributes in our surgical wing while she’s here.

It is now our hope and belief that within weeks miss c will be back home, merrily back at her computer posting away, perhaps typing just a tad slower as she adjusts to her much larger breastworks.

But the tone of her posts will be different….a new, modern, with it, optimistic, heterosexual, obedient woman is being crafted as you read…soon when you click open her FAVORITE AUTHORS list you may just find scouries listed…

jrs

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Quoted so it can't be deleted.

scouries said:

MOONMAN QUOTE Generally, Romance stories are better written pieces with a lot more thought going into the story. The writer of romance has to hold the reader with quality writing, and a quality plot.


Usually Brian you make halfway intelligent comments. Not this time! Romance stories=quality writing? What planet have you been on lately?

To believe that ROMANTIC CATEGORY stories are somehow better written than stories from other categories is simply idiocy. Utter bullshit!

The fact of the matter is that certain categories deliver higher average scores than other categories irrespective of quality (Sci-Fi, Romance, Novels are the highest). This is the product of the different reading audience for each category and the way they score stories. One could argue quite easily that in fact ROMANCE readers here on LITEROTICA are the least discerning group of readers here.

There is a bell curve of scores for every category – the ROMANCE curve is simply the one with the highest median and average scores. Romance readers are the least critical of our reading groups, and quite frankly the least demanding. They’ll score just about any story highly.

As a quick example: How many times have you read a post in AHLand something like the following – “I never vote under ‘4’; if I don’t feel I can give the story a ‘4’ or a ‘5’ I don’t vote at all”. I’ll bet I’ve read that sentiment expressed 100 times over the last couple of years. It’s an attitude that pervades the scoring of ROMANCE stories and which of course leads to higher average scores than for other categories (i.e. LOVING WIVES) where our readers are more critical.

Don’t believe me? Well I challenge you to try it then. Write a story (perhaps a husband-wife cheating story with a happy ending) and then give it two different titles and enter one as a ROMANCE story and one as a LOVING WIFE story under two different and new LITEROTICA names. I’m quite prepared to bet any amount you’d like to specify that the ROMANCE story will have a higher rating. Anywhere from 0.2 to 0.8 higher. For the same story!

The funny thing is that the lower rated story, the LOVING WIVES one (with no chance of winning a contest), will almost surely have more ‘views’ and ‘comments’ than the higher rated ROMANCE one.

The irony is, as I pointed out in a post quite a while ago, that ROMANCE category stories in many ways are the laughing stock of serious publishers and critiques. ROMANCE authors are generally regarded with derision by serious writers. Not in AHland!

Jim

p.s. did you really describe my post as a “rambling missive” in your post #2468?

Click to expand...

You know I was all set to write something scathing since half of what I write is Romance. Then I thought about who wrote the above quote and decided I'd keep my opinion to myself since things are so twisted about sometimes by this person, it's hard to tell what's the truth and what's just part of his rambling delusions. Good luck Jim boy, maybe one day you'll make it with the big boys.

scouries said:

…I know exactly where she is…

To those of you concerned about the disappearance of the woman known as cloudy please, do not fear.

Unlike her little friend miss jenny, who is taking the ScouriesCure by correspondence over the Internet (but who later of course will need a couple of intensive in-hospital weeks), miss cloudy decided to check herself in right from the start and is now ensconced in a lovely room in the ScouriesTower of the ScouriesMedicalCenter overlooking South Beach.

And I might add that after just a couple of days here she is showing remarkable improvement! In fact her mental outlook has shown such a radical change for the better that she is now musing about also augmenting her physical attributes in our surgical wing while she’s here.

It is now our hope and belief that within weeks miss c will be back home, merrily back at her computer posting away, perhaps typing just a tad slower as she adjusts to her much larger breastworks.

But the tone of her posts will be different….a new, modern, with it, optimistic, heterosexual, obedient woman is being crafted as you read…soon when you click open her FAVORITE AUTHORS list you may just find scouries listed…

jrs

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You're an ass! And that is my freedom of speech opinion.

scouries said:

[To believe that ROMANTIC CATEGORY stories are somehow better written than stories from other categories is simply idiocy. Utter bullshit!

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Although I think "utterly" might be going too far, I'll have to agree with the "bullshit" in this statement. The category doesn't have anything to do with "better written." Better written is a function of the writer. And a good writer will make something "better written" in comparison in any category in which she/he writes.

I believe that the overall "quality" of writing in the Romance section here is probably underaverage--by the logic, first, that it's a category that beginning writers tend to gravitate to. Even in published books, Romance has the reputation of including more schlock (in terms of "better writing") than other genres. And, second, I think it tends to the substandard because it's so formulaic and much easier than with other genres to satisfy the reader.

I do think Romance has a prominent place because it does, in fact, satisfy readers. But that's a different animal than "better writing."

I think incest is limiting--it's much harder than in most other genres to write something fresh. And like, Romance, incest is easier than the average to satisfy the reader, so it invites hackneyed and substandard writing.

But, again, a "better writer" will be a better writer in any genre they produce a story that satisfies them enough to share it.