Someone 1-bombed my latest story and killed my red H!

lovecraft68 said:

Should've started with my first stories in 2010. You'd have stopped reading a lot sooner

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They're kind of long, but all good. I love your style. And element of surprise. It's you somehow. One of my subconscious, mental note taking skills - is to observe a style no one can ever really copy. And if someone can mimic it........well, nothing like the original to keep doing it time and again.

JasonClearwater said:

Maybe it's the brony in me, maybe it's the drugs [it's the drugs], but this place needs a good support system to cancel out the trolls roaming the wasteland, and I wanted to encourage that.

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You know it's not the drugs...


That aside, one thing I've noticed is, you get trolled if you're like Jason and Lovecraft who write on the edge AND have a stick and poke the ant's nest. Or you get trolled if you're like Chloe who's very popular, but she's also got a stick and pokes.

Or maybe you get trolled because, you know what, your writing actually does suck, so pay attention.

Because it seems to me there's a whole mass in the middle for whom it doesn't seem to matter. They're flying beneath the radar, getting one-bombed now and again, sure, but that's okay, it's only a temporary thing. Wait for a sweep, voila, the score's back where it was.

God knows I make enough fuss here on AH that I probably get noticed, but in my time here I've cleaned troll shit off my shoes just once (a deliberate attack), hit the delete button maybe a dozen times, watched my scores wander up and down a bit, think, oh look at that, I'll wait for a sweep.

All of which means I'm either not being read (which is generally not true), or I'm being read but can spell sufficiently well enough, and know that apostrophes and commas are actually different, that I don't provide the most obvious fuel for the trolls. Or, I'm writing sufficiently well that trolls, despite themselves, find themselves reading.

Dunno, but they're a peripheral thing for me. Maybe I don't care enough to encourage them, maybe they sense from my bullshit here, that they're about annoying as a fly, and the system are in place to deal with them.

Maybe I don't need affirmation from a troll, to know that I exist.

I've got a brony for that .

I used to watch the comment portal regularly. It was part of my research into the categories. You can learn damn near as much about them by reading large numbers of comments as you can actually reading the stories in them.

That's where you see the angst from authors who never come here. It gets released in their comments, and their author's notes, and their profiles.

There aren't many people flying under the radar. All it takes is to hit a toplist. Or post in LW. Or post GM anywhere except GM. Or leave a positive comment on a story someone doesn't like. Or make a less than glowing comment on a story someone does like...

There are so many ways to set people off, and so many people to be set off, that few escape unscathed.

electricblue66 said:

That aside, one thing I've noticed is, you get trolled if you're like Jason and Lovecraft who write on the edge AND have a stick and poke the ant's nest. Or you get trolled if you're like Chloe who's very popular, but she's also got a stick and pokes.

.

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It's interesting that you mention those three, because one thing they all share, despite writing mostly in different categories from one another, is that despite whatever trolling they get they're doing just fine in terms of scores and views.

And the reason is that they just keep moving forward, writing stories, and gaining followers and viewers. When you get to a certain level of support from your readers, the trolls are less likely to take a toll on your story scores. So the lesson is not to take it too seriously and just keeping doing your thing writing.

My niece was patrolling my comments earlier and came across some lame-brained comment about how my one-shot stories clearly suck, because I have to rely on multiple-chapter entries to move from 4.75 to over 4.8.

First, I don't think 4.75 is anything to sneeze at, troll, since it would basically equate with a 95 on a percentile system. So I'm not sure what your point here is. Secondly, I don't write multiple-chapter stories to garner higher scores, I write them because I have a story to tell, and one chapter ain't gonna do it.

I don't blame authors for wanting to score well and wanting to see the red H. For some it could be an affirmation of their writing. Others are sometimes using writing to relate personal trauma and need some catharsis. Nobody needs trolls interfering there. I think they just need to understand that losing it or not getting it is not the end of the universe, and not cause to pack it in and quit writing. Keep writing, ask for tips, and slowly build up your followers/readership. Get enough of them, and troll scores will matter less and less.

I dunno if the site allows for it, but I'm considering mentioning new and aspiring writers I like in my Author's Notes and give them some exposure. Then again, my well-meaning intentions might prove harmful, since I'm severely infected with trolls and they might go stampeding off to do harm at the mention of fresh blood... :/

I've got enough followers now that I might turn off anonymous comments on my stories. But this would probably draw protest from my niece, who enjoys deleting troll comments with extreme prejudice, God bless her. Very few people leave nasty, ill-spelled comments when their name is attached. Ah, the bravery of anonymity.

Maybe they could add a button allowing only for registered user votes. You still wouldn't know who voted what, but I ascribe a little more integrity to site members in general. Am I off-base here?

BiscuitHammer said:

My niece was patrolling my comments earlier and came across some lame-brained comment about how my one-shot stories clearly suck, because I have to rely on multiple-chapter entries to move from 4.75 to over 4.8.

First, I don't think 4.75 is anything to sneeze at, troll, since it would basically equate with a 95 on a percentile system. So I'm not sure what your point here is. Secondly, I don't write multiple-chapter stories to garner higher scores, I write them because I have a story to tell, and one chapter ain't gonna do it.

I don't blame authors for wanting to score well and wanting to see the red H. For some it could be an affirmation of their writing. Others are sometimes using writing to relate personal trauma and need some catharsis. Nobody needs trolls interfering there. I think they just need to understand that losing it or not getting it is not the end of the universe, and not cause to pack it in and quit writing. Keep writing, ask for tips, and slowly build up your followers/readership. Get enough of them, and troll scores will matter less and less.

I dunno if the site allows for it, but I'm considering mentioning new and aspiring writers I like in my Author's Notes and give them some exposure. Then again, my well-meaning intentions might prove harmful, since I'm severely infected with trolls and they might go stampeding off to do harm at the mention of fresh blood... :/

I've got enough followers now that I might turn off anonymous comments on my stories. But this would probably draw protest from my niece, who enjoys deleting troll comments with extreme prejudice, God bless her. Very few people leave nasty, ill-spelled comments when their name is attached. Ah, the bravery of anonymity.

Maybe they could add a button allowing only for registered user votes. You still wouldn't know who voted what, but I ascribe a little more integrity to site members in general. Am I off-base here?

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That's a typically dumb troll comment, because 4.75 is an excellent score for a standalone story. There's a big difference between scores of standalone stories and chapters late in a series. A 4.75 standalone story is equivalent to a late chapter story well above 4.8, in percentile terms.

If I were you, I would take the fact of my high following as reason NOT to delete anonymous comments, at least not categorically. You can delete the ones you don't like. When you have more followers they are more apt to drown out your trolls, and you can just laugh at them and not take them too seriously. And the thing is, every once in a while you do get a really nice anonymous comment, and you don't want to miss out on that.

SimonDoom said:

It's interesting that you mention those three, because one thing they all share, despite writing mostly in different categories from one another, is that despite whatever trolling they get they're doing just fine in terms of scores and views.

And the reason is that they just keep moving forward, writing stories, and gaining followers and viewers. When you get to a certain level of support from your readers, the trolls are less likely to take a toll on your story scores. So the lesson is not to take it too seriously and just keeping doing your thing writing.

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Exactly. At some point a story (and a writer's overall portfolio) reaches a critical point where the fans far outweigh the assholes. I reckon critical mass is somewhere between 10 - 20 polished stories, and in terms of an individual story, the stats 20 - 30 days in. Depends on category, obviously - some Cats have a much shorter half life than others.

Creating a setting to individually block anonymous votes is just going to cause arguments and bad blood.

Regardless of whether it actually happens, people are going to believe that anyone with anonymous voting turned off has an unfair advantage, and they're not really earning their scores. Even if you had such a setting automatically and permanently disqualify a story from contests and score-based toplists, people will believe it's sucking reads away from them with its "artificially inflated score" on the hubs.

That's just the first two things that popped into my head. Someone who believes they're being cheated would undoubtedly come up with a whole lot more.

When it comes to scores, it needs to be universal.

RejectReality said:

Creating a setting to individually block anonymous votes is just going to cause arguments and bad blood.

Regardless of whether it actually happens, people are going to believe that anyone with anonymous voting turned off has an unfair advantage, and they're not really earning their scores. Even if you had such a setting automatically and permanently disqualify a story from contests and score-based toplists, people will believe it's sucking reads away from them with its "artificially inflated score" on the hubs.

That's just the first two things that popped into my head. Someone who believes they're being cheated would undoubtedly come up with a whole lot more.

When it comes to scores, it needs to be universal.

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Agreed. It's one thing for an author to have the ability to have individual settings for comments, but you can't do it for votes. The system has to be universal.

That's not just speculation, either. That's watching it actually unfold on another site. It only stopped when they blocked anonymous voting entirely, rendering the setting irrelevant.

Of course, that caused vote totals to drop off a cliff overnight, made 4.95 out of 5.00 a middling score, and "4 bombing" the equivalent of 1 bombing here. There's a thread almost identical to this one there that replaces 1 with 4, making light of the angst that comes up. There's even one of those "Hitler Reacts" videos on the subject.

Clicking a three makes you Satan incarnate, wearing a full length kitten-fur coat made in a sweat shop by slave labor, whose favorite pastime is stealing blankets from premature babies.

Shaking my head sadly as I watched that unfold is why I always speak up whenever someone suggests universally blocking anonymous voting. I've seen what happens in real time, and it is not pretty.

As a result of this thread I watched the votes for my latest story more closely than I usually do.

As expected, the third or fourth vote was a 1, making it impossible for the story to be on the New list with a Red H.

That happens to almost every story I post. Eventually the rating improves (or not) but it damages the story's views in the first day.

RejectReality said:

Creating a setting to individually block anonymous votes is just going to cause arguments and bad blood.

Regardless of whether it actually happens, people are going to believe that anyone with anonymous voting turned off has an unfair advantage, and they're not really earning their scores. Even if you had such a setting automatically and permanently disqualify a story from contests and score-based toplists, people will believe it's sucking reads away from them with its "artificially inflated score" on the hubs.

That's just the first two things that popped into my head. Someone who believes they're being cheated would undoubtedly come up with a whole lot more.

When it comes to scores, it needs to be universal.

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I think you're right that people will say its an unfair edge-if you could shut down anonymous voting, but they would be missing the point that you lose a lot of good votes too.

In fact, what's always amazed me in any debate about trolling and anon is....the vast majority of votes and comments here even from anon are good. People obsess with H's and top lists aside, a 4 vote means someone really enjoyed the story and it seems most stories here are in the fours so in general the lit readership is not Loving wives across the board. In fact that seems to be the only truly mean spirited readership and a lot of them trickle out and hit other stories.

So the point is there's really far more good voting/commenting than bad, but to hear some talk this place is an abyss of abuse.

The other irony is for authors who focus on H's is when they lose one its always a troll. Many times it is, but on occasions-stay seated everyone-someone may just not like your story for a legit reason(to them)

But yet no one with an H wants to think up voting is responsible. I've received many comments here to the affect of 'not your best, but you're my fav author so I gave you a five'

That happens a lot, in fact I think more than the troll one bomb.

So its funny how a lost H is always a troll, but the H itself is always earned.

The site is not going to change anything and even if they said they would? They've also said they would look into removing chapter stories from the monthlies, a bi-sexual category, and this is the third straight year influential author will be runaway with by someone whose work is one long endless chapter and whose rabid fan base s up voting them and trolling others and people are told...oh, next year we'll...

So its pointless to keep brainstorming ideas and making suggestions.

Its also pointless to focus on a red H more than the actual story. I know the only pay here is through statistical success, but people take it way too seriously.

Maybe I can say that because I've been here long enough and have seen enough screw jobs in contests, suspicious winners, crap stories on top lists and very good stories with suspiciously low scores to know none of it is real

Write because you want to, write what you want to worry about what you think of the story, and take the good votes and comments you get and just roll your eyes at the bottom feeders whose life is spent trolling social media and bombing people on sites like this.

Threads like this tell those people they own you. And when they keep going and keep showing up, they're right.

What is more important than the voting practices is that any story posted on Literotica is likely to be seen, and perhaps read, by more people than almost anywhere else.

On Literotica you have an audience. They might not like what you write, can be rude about it, but they have reacted to it. Some of them might actually like the story.

lovecraft68 said:

So its funny how a lost H is always a troll, but the H itself is always earned.

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MelissaBaby said:

My scores have followed the same pattern almost every time.

Phase 1: High initial scores as my followers read and vote.

Phase 2: Steady decline of about .20-.30 points.

Phase 3: Scores climb back up to about .10-.20 points below Phase 1.

So typically, I might get an initial score of @4.80, then it drops to @4.60, then rises and settles in at @4.70.

I don't know if others have such a standard pattern, but it seems I do.

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This is close to the pattern for my stories, although my overall score average is a little lower than that. It's gotten higher over time, and something else I've noticed is that as I've gained followers it takes less time for my stories to reach their peak score. A year ago I noticed that after the ups and downs of the first few days my stories generally would keep rising in score, slowly, for a while, even for as much as a couple of months. But now they settle in near their permanent level fairly quickly.

SimonDoom said:

This is close to the pattern for my stories, although my overall score average is a little lower than that. It's gotten higher over time, and something else I've noticed is that as I've gained followers it takes less time for my stories to reach their peak score. A year ago I noticed that after the ups and downs of the first few days my stories generally would keep rising in score, slowly, for a while, even for as much as a couple of months. But now they settle in near their permanent level fairly quickly.

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That made me curious, so I did some quick calculating, and my guess was pretty close. The average score for my stories is 4.72.

JasonClearwater said:

I'm just kidding. As if anyone gives a flying fk after the first time it happens. Especially on a long piece of fiction. When will these twats learn, no one cares?

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I don't give fk what your opinion is, as long as you keep 5-bombing my stories I'm happy

MelissaBaby said:

That made me curious, so I did some quick calculating, and my guess was pretty close. The average score for my stories is 4.72.

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That's a very high average. Mine is 4.58, though it's dragged down somewhat by a 3.6 I received for a Loving Wives spoof I wrote over a year ago. I was very pleased to see, however, that despite its low score somebody favorited it recently. I value that a lot more than scores.

I have too many stories as oggbashan to be bothered to work out an average.

jeanne_d_artois average is 4.15.

I expect that oggbashan's is lower than that. My guess? 4.05 or slightly lower.

That comes from writing stories for a restricted audience (and pissing off readers who want something more mainstream/popular)

Ratings? A Red H shows popularity and nothing much else, says he who has fewer than most.

But my Ws compensate for the lack of Red Hs.

Maybe.

My average is 4.36 over ten chapters. All grouped within 4.2 - 4.52. Does anybody else think that stories in some categories are more tricky than others to build a score in ? Mine are niche being BDSM, and Fem Dom within that category. Or am I just making an excuse? Having said that I am quite happy with my ratings as a novice.

suboots said:

Does anybody else think that stories in some categories are more tricky than others to build a score in ? .

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This is absolutely true. There's no meaningful way to compare the average ratings of different authors who write different kinds of stories in different categories.

The average ratings, for example, of Loving Wives stories are much lower than those for other stories. So if you've got the balls to submit cheating wife stories to that swamp, you're never going to see the scores you might get in other categories, no matter how good your story is. (You might get lots of views, though-- it's a category with tons of traffic).

If you write standalone stories as opposed to multiple chapters in a long series, your average scores will be lower. But your views might be higher.

Ten of my stories have been published in incest/taboo. This is a category that gets more views than any other. Scores tend to be decent, but not at the top. You can't compare I/T stories with anything else. An advantage of publishing in I/T is that you might not get the highest possible score, but the views and votes are so numerous that it's harder for trolls to drive down your score, especially after sweeps are done.

A crucial element in scores is this: are you delivering what the majority of the readers in a category expect, or are you putting your own twist on it and delivering something different? If you do the former, you are very likely to get the higher score. If you do the latter, you might write a better story, but on Literotica you probably will have a lower score. I've done both, and the results are obvious.

The highest scores are in categories that tolerate long, multi-chapter stories, like Sci Fi. Tefler is a great example of this. He's on his 101st chapter of a story (my mind reels at that), and he has an extremely devoted following of readers who give him high marks for every chapter. The ratio of comments and favorites to views is phenomenally high. I keep meaning to read his series (or, at least some of it) but haven't gotten around to it yet.

So, bottom line, don't think too much about your stories' scores compared to those of other authors, because you're probably comparing apples and oranges.

oggbashan said:

That comes from writing stories for a restricted audience (and pissing off readers who want something more mainstream/popular)

Ratings? A Red H shows popularity and nothing much else, says he who has fewer than most.

But my Ws compensate for the lack of Red Hs.

Maybe.

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Every puffin has its rock. Don't ever forget that.

electricblue66 said:

Every puffin has its rock. Don't ever forget that.

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What exactly is a W? Extra strength E?

JasonClearwater said:

What exactly is a W? Extra strength E?

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Win, Place or Show in a Lit contest.

NotWise said:

Win, Place or Show in a Lit contest.

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OIC.

Not something I'll ever need to worry about.