the marks of a slave

00Syd said:

This isn't from anywhere near a slave's perspective, so bare with me, but ITW's "When I focus on this exclusively, it's like meditation." comment is pretty relevent for me right now.

Seb keeps having to remind me to focus on him. I'll be in the middle of doing something, something for him, and he'll literally have to slap me and remind me to focus. I'm starting to feel like I'm too easily distracted for submission. Ugh.

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What is distracting you? Is it internal or external?

eastern sun said:

What is distracting you? Is it internal or external?

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Both?


One notable example was this one morning, when I started giving Seb a blowjob when he was still asleep and I was all like, oh yeah, totally going giving him a blowjob because it's awesome and he's gonna like it. But after a little while I started feeling frustrated, and I didn't know why, and when I feel frustrated I can't help but show it, at least a little, and so my performance started to go downhill. Seb slaps me and is like "focus!" and so I try to refocus on him and keep going, but I still feel frustrated, and so things just go down hill. Eventually he just pushes me away, and I'm hurt, and he's annoyed, and he says "look, if you are going to give me a blowjob, then give me a blowjob! But if you are only doing it to wake me up, then don't even bother."

And I'm internally punching myself.

00Syd said:

Seb slaps me and is like "focus!"

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So glad to learn I'm not the only person who does this.

eastern sun said:

Service is the foundation on which my house is built. If I ever lose my bearings, I can always find myself again in the simple acts I am required to do each day.

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Yes, I love this. It's funny. At one point I could never imagine myself enjoying service. Now it's kind of my rock.

00Syd said:

Both?


One notable example was this one morning, when I started giving Seb a blowjob when he was still asleep and I was all like, oh yeah, totally going giving him a blowjob because it's awesome and he's gonna like it. But after a little while I started feeling frustrated, and I didn't know why, and when I feel frustrated I can't help but show it, at least a little, and so my performance started to go downhill. Seb slaps me and is like "focus!" and so I try to refocus on him and keep going, but I still feel frustrated, and so things just go down hill. Eventually he just pushes me away, and I'm hurt, and he's annoyed, and he says "look, if you are going to give me a blowjob, then give me a blowjob! But if you are only doing it to wake me up, then don't even bother."

And I'm internally punching myself.

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Ouch. He's good. What if you let yourself feel the frustration, but give the judgment of your act to him. I mean, it seems as though you're sabotaging yourself by deciding you're not good enough. Let him tell you that.

Or not - that's what I would find helpful, I think - but I'm no expert.

rosco rathbone said:

So glad to learn I'm not the only person who does this.

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Hullo, meet my husband. It's the bread and butter of our relationship. Er, something like that.

intothewoods said:

Ouch. He's good. What if you let yourself feel the frustration, but give the judgment of your act to him. I mean, it seems as though you're sabotaging yourself by deciding you're not good enough. Let him tell you that.

Or not - that's what I would find helpful, I think - but I'm no expert.

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Maybe, I dunno. I have some pretty serious issues with frustration, but that's its own kettle of fish. It's something I need to work out for myself.

But I really feel like I'm doing him a disservice by not even being aware enough of myself to know my own motives. I feel like I need to get this shit under control. I need to focus.

00Syd said:

Maybe, I dunno. I have some pretty serious issues with frustration, but that's its own kettle of fish. It's something I need to work out for myself.

But I really feel like I'm doing him a disservice by not even being aware enough of myself to know my own motives. I feel like I need to get this shit under control. I need to focus.

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You're not the only one with this problem.

BiBunny said:

You're not the only one with this problem.

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*commiserate commiserate*

00Syd said:

Both?


One notable example was this one morning, when I started giving Seb a blowjob when he was still asleep and I was all like, oh yeah, totally going giving him a blowjob because it's awesome and he's gonna like it. But after a little while I started feeling frustrated, and I didn't know why, and when I feel frustrated I can't help but show it, at least a little, and so my performance started to go downhill. Seb slaps me and is like "focus!" and so I try to refocus on him and keep going, but I still feel frustrated, and so things just go down hill. Eventually he just pushes me away, and I'm hurt, and he's annoyed, and he says "look, if you are going to give me a blowjob, then give me a blowjob! But if you are only doing it to wake me up, then don't even bother."

And I'm internally punching myself.

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I could have written the post above.
I've had this slow building up of insecurity regarding my blow job skills (gag at deep throating no matter what) that lead to a situation where I would start out all enthusiastic and slowly but surely get overwhelmed by my sense of inadequacy, leading to frustration leading to lack of focus leading to a sloppy execution leading to disaster.
(Did not help that what Hubby likes and what the Sadist likes felt like two totally different set of skills ...).
I even yellowed during a blow job for it ... can you believe?

What helped has been their patience mixed with proper redirection, such as the "focus!" reminder.

It did not work right away. But eventually, one day when I was entering my usual negative spiral thinking, he told me "don't think. listen to my body. or I could give you the 50 leashing". The moment I gave up trying and accepted the 50 leashing I was finally able to let go of my own judgmental mind.

I'm still failing at times, but am slowly recovering my confidence in it.

intothewoods said:

Ouch. He's good. What if you let yourself feel the frustration, but give the judgment of your act to him. I mean, it seems as though you're sabotaging yourself by deciding you're not good enough. Let him tell you that.

Or not - that's what I would find helpful, I think - but I'm no expert.

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The bolded part: WORDS!

rida said:

I could have written the post above.
I've had this slow building up of insecurity regarding my blow job skills (gag at deep throating no matter what) that lead to a situation where I would start out all enthusiastic and slowly but surely get overwhelmed by my sense of inadequacy, leading to frustration leading to lack of focus leading to a sloppy execution leading to disaster.
(Did not help that what Hubby likes and what the Sadist likes felt like two totally different set of skills ...).
I even yellowed during a blow job for it ... can you believe?

What helped has been their patience mixed with proper redirection, such as the "focus!" reminder.

It did not work right away. But eventually, one day when I was entering my usual negative spiral thinking, he told me "don't think. listen to my body. or I could give you the 50 leashing". The moment I gave up trying and accepted the 50 leashing I was finally able to let go of my own judgmental mind.

I'm still failing at times, but am slowly recovering my confidence in it.

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This is good stuff. Thanks I'm going to try to just let go and get on with things, but I might need a few more slaps upside the head first.

BiBunny said:

You're not the only one with this problem.

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Thirded.

I mostly get frustrated when I realise how ridiculous I'm being, and can't stop it.

I've been through similar experiences with blowjobs. It's hard not to lose your enthusiasm at times. For any number of reasons.

But that's the value of "punishment," in my opinion. Putting aside all those fantasy-based ideas of spankings for bad behavior, etc. etc., used well, it's a means for redirecting your attention and keeping you focussed.

And over time, it can literally change the state of your mind.

For this reason, it's a good idea to watch where you're going. As a sub/slave, you do have responsibility towards yourself, and the type of experiences you're inviting.

(Personally, I like those in-the-moment slap-in-the-face calls to attention much better than the long drawn-out steady-pressure-to-change methods. They both work, but the first is a less frustrating experience once you begin responding to it. The long route to change gives you so many more opportunities to see how you're falling short. )

rida said:

he told me "don't think. listen to my body"

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This is the key.

When I get distracted, like in meditation, I focus on my breath (or his breath), reconnect my mind with my body, and it's easier to "listen." Otherwise, I fall back on a series of techniques or ideas of what I think he will like. Sometimes those moves work if he's close enough to orgasm, but if he feels my disconnect, he either loses interest or takes advantage of it.

If I'm really "listening" to his body, any technique is just a springboard for my creativity and I feel like a sexual artist. In time, it becomes it's own reward.

00Syd said:

Maybe, I dunno. I have some pretty serious issues with frustration, but that's its own kettle of fish. It's something I need to work out for myself.

But I really feel like I'm doing him a disservice by not even being aware enough of myself to know my own motives. I feel like I need to get this shit under control. I need to focus.

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What frustrates you?

(Motives are sneaky things. They like to hide. We tell ourselves one thing, but later discover something else was driving us. I've been struggling with that for years.)

00Syd said:

One notable example was this one morning, when I started giving Seb a blowjob when he was still asleep and I was all like, oh yeah, totally going giving him a blowjob because it's awesome and he's gonna like it. But after a little while I started feeling frustrated, and I didn't know why, and when I feel frustrated I can't help but show it, at least a little, and so my performance started to go downhill. Seb slaps me and is like "focus!" and so I try to refocus on him and keep going, but I still feel frustrated, and so things just go down hill. Eventually he just pushes me away, and I'm hurt, and he's annoyed, and he says "look, if you are going to give me a blowjob, then give me a blowjob! But if you are only doing it to wake me up, then don't even bother."

And I'm internally punching myself.

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Tough to tell from a few sentences, so this could be way off the mark, but it sounds like you initially became frustrated with him, rather than yourself. Frustrated because you thought you were volunteering something "awesome," but he wasn't giving you "awesome" feedback in return.

intothewoods said:

Ouch. He's good. What if you let yourself feel the frustration, but give the judgment of your act to him. I mean, it seems as though you're sabotaging yourself by deciding you're not good enough. Let him tell you that.

Or not - that's what I would find helpful, I think - but I'm no expert.

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I don't judge outcome; I judge effort.

You can't control whether he has to pee, or is distracted thinking about what he needs to do that day, or just isn't in the mood for demonstrative feedback, or whatever. You sabotage yourself when you forget that the outcome you want is not necessarily the outcome you can produce, no matter what you do.

eastern sun said:

What frustrates you?

(Motives are sneaky things. They like to hide. We tell ourselves one thing, but later discover something else was driving us. I've been struggling with that for years.)

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That is truth.

As far as blowjobs go, honestly, I think I mostly get frustrated because it's taking too damn long, and dick sucking is hard work! I've been working on my endurance, and I've also been trying to focus on the act itself, not just the end result (which is where a lot of the *slap! focus!* comes into play).

But that's just one thing y'know? I find that I get frustrated over a lot of different things, and the reasons for it aren't always as easy to figure out. When I do figure it out, though, it's often because of a lack of focus, or I'm focusing too much on the wrong thing - which is why I'm so stuck on the *slap! focus!* idea.

I need to get more zen or something.

JMohegan said:

Tough to tell from a few sentences, so this could be way off the mark, but it sounds like you initially became frustrated with him, rather than yourself. Frustrated because you thought you were volunteering something "awesome," but he wasn't giving you "awesome" feedback in return.

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Naw, I don't think that's it. Well, maybe... I don't know. I want him to react however he's going to. And if I am looking for any specific reaction, then again, that's a problem with focus, because I'm focused on the wrong thing. I should be focused on him, doing something for him, not on getting him to do something, or to act a certain way.

I don't judge outcome; I judge effort.

You can't control whether he has to pee, or is distracted thinking about what he needs to do that day, or just isn't in the mood for demonstrative feedback, or whatever. You sabotage yourself when you forget that the outcome you want is not necessarily the outcome you can produce, no matter what you do.

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I think that's true.

I really need to stop focusing on the end result. What I really need to stop is doing something "for him," that's actually just a means to an end that's for me. I need to start doing things for him, FOR HIM. It's like he said, if I'm going to give him a blowjob, then I need to do it for the purpose of giving him a blowjob. If it's actually for the purpose of waking him up, then why even bother?

I never even realize that I'm doing that until he slaps me and tells me to cut it out. Or just pushes me away.

Ach. Stupid double post.

00Syd said:

That is truth.

As far as blowjobs go, honestly, I think I mostly get frustrated because it's taking too damn long, and dick sucking is hard work!

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This is truth, too! (Don't tell anyone ... but, sometimes I ride my own heel when I'm kneeling. It helps my motivation. )

rosco rathbone said:

So glad to learn I'm not the only person who does this.

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Definitely not the only one.

--

00Syd said:

Maybe, I dunno. I have some pretty serious issues with frustration, but that's its own kettle of fish. It's something I need to work out for myself.

But I really feel like I'm doing him a disservice by not even being aware enough of myself to know my own motives. I feel like I need to get this shit under control. I need to focus.

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I've have been on the receiving end of this. The best piece of advice I can offer, cribbed from Marquis, is just do as you're fucking told. If you really just get into that mindset of doing what you're told, it is his responsibility to direct. That takes the weight off your shoulders. Yes, you have to learn, and figure out how to anticipate, but give him the responsibility of direction.

Homburg said:

I've have been on the receiving end of this. The best piece of advice I can offer, cribbed from Marquis, is just do as you're fucking told. If you really just get into that mindset of doing what you're told, it is his responsibility to direct. That takes the weight off your shoulders. Yes, you have to learn, and figure out how to anticipate, but give him the responsibility of direction.

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Man, that's good advice, but I honestly don't think I have the patience for that. Or something.

Like, he'll direct my actions, but it might be something that I don't like doing, so while yeah, not my responsibility, I'm still being forced to do something that I don't like. I can't just relax into doing something that I'm not into, my responsibility or not, that's not something I really get off on. So for me, most of the time it comes down to endurance.

And I know what you mean by learning how to anticipate, which, for me, is nothing more than just knowing my man, and common courtesy, and hostess skills - but goddamn, phrasing it like that "learn to anticipate" just makes me think of house slaves. Blach. For me, those skills aren't a submissive thing, they are a "being a nice person in a relationship thing." But that's true for most so-called submissive skills, I find.

eastern sun said:

This is truth, too! (Don't tell anyone ... but, sometimes I ride my own heel when I'm kneeling. It helps my motivation. )

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I do that too

00Syd said:

And I know what you mean by learning how to anticipate, which, for me, is nothing more than just knowing my man, and common courtesy, and hostess skills - but goddamn, phrasing it like that "learn to anticipate" just makes me think of house slaves. Blach. For me, those skills aren't a submissive thing, they are a "being a nice person in a relationship thing." But that's true for most so-called submissive skills, I find.

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I've heard the phrase "learn to anticipate" in relation to customer service, and especially the hotel industry, far, far more than anything I've ever read in relation to 'house slaves'.

Homburg said:

I've heard the phrase "learn to anticipate" in relation to customer service, and especially the hotel industry, far, far more than anything I've ever read in relation to 'house slaves'.

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*shrug* That's just the connotation I get, for whatever reason.

There are a lot of terms that get thrown around that make my skin crawl. I don't know why, but they just do. What those terms refer to hardly, if ever, bother me, but the term itself does. Like "training." I'm actually really into a lot of what often falls under "training," but I just cannot deal with it being called that.

JMohegan said:

I don't judge outcome; I judge effort.

You can't control whether he has to pee, or is distracted thinking about what he needs to do that day, or just isn't in the mood for demonstrative feedback, or whatever. You sabotage yourself when you forget that the outcome you want is not necessarily the outcome you can produce, no matter what you do.

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When it comes to blowjobs, I find it best not to focus on outcome at all. Focus on his pleasure and there will eventually be an orgasm. Kind of like Field of Dreams...if you build it...

I think cocks have a sixth sense about being rushed.

00Syd said:

Man, that's good advice, but I honestly don't think I have the patience for that. Or something.

Like, he'll direct my actions, but it might be something that I don't like doing, so while yeah, not my responsibility, I'm still being forced to do something that I don't like. I can't just relax into doing something that I'm not into, my responsibility or not, that's not something I really get off on. So for me, most of the time it comes down to endurance.

And I know what you mean by learning how to anticipate, which, for me, is nothing more than just knowing my man, and common courtesy, and hostess skills - but goddamn, phrasing it like that "learn to anticipate" just makes me think of house slaves. Blach. For me, those skills aren't a submissive thing, they are a "being a nice person in a relationship thing." But that's true for most so-called submissive skills, I find.

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What's wrong with a house slave? Reminds me of Dobby...

It helped me to accept that I don't have to be into what I'm doing. In fact, he thinks that's kinda hot.

Homburg said:

I've heard the phrase "learn to anticipate" in relation to customer service, and especially the hotel industry, far, far more than anything I've ever read in relation to 'house slaves'.

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I say it all the time in my line of work.

00Syd said:

*shrug* That's just the connotation I get, for whatever reason.

There are a lot of terms that get thrown around that make my skin crawl. I don't know why, but they just do. What those terms refer to hardly, if ever, bother me, but the term itself does. Like "training." I'm actually really into a lot of what often falls under "training," but I just cannot deal with it being called that.

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There are BDSM culturally defined terms that don't appeal to me either.

00Syd said:

*shrug* That's just the connotation I get, for whatever reason.

There are a lot of terms that get thrown around that make my skin crawl. I don't know why, but they just do. What those terms refer to hardly, if ever, bother me, but the term itself does. Like "training." I'm actually really into a lot of what often falls under "training," but I just cannot deal with it being called that.

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Language is more flexible than the minds that use it sometimes.

I started writing, in part, because the codified language I was reading didn't fully capture the experience I was having. Though it may challenge aspects of the BDSM subculture, I doubt it will change BDSM at the roots to explore new ways of talking about it, and I encourage you to keep putting your experience into words. There are a lot of people who will recognize what you're talking about.

And ultimately language is meant to serve the people who use it. Too often we get stuck trying to fit the rawness of our experience into pre-defined concepts, and inadvertently limit ourselves in the process.

00Syd said:

As far as blowjobs go, honestly, I think I mostly get frustrated because it's taking too damn long, and dick sucking is hard work! I've been working on my endurance, and I've also been trying to focus on the act itself, not just the end result (which is where a lot of the *slap! focus!* comes into play).

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It might help if you also focus on the act as an expression of your feelings for the man himself.

Whether reasonable or not, "love me, love my cock" = a very basic male expectation. And at no point is there a better opportunity to express that sentiment than when you've got his dick in your mouth.

By the same token, though, unless the guy is actively trying to frustrate you, "this blowjob's taking too damn long" is an attitude that's gonna be a big turnoff.

See the first post of the Oral Servitude thread. I don't know if this is a wiring thing, an individual personality or preference thing, a chemistry of pairing thing, or whatever. So it may not be possible for you to cultivate that particular flavor of focus. But I recommend it highly if you can.