My daugther, breaks my heart sometimes.

That was a thought provoking post Raffi_sandoval, thank you.

These days she is finding new ways to break my heart. Kids, you gotta love em!

It does get better as the kids get older. My mom and I...we fought like cats and dogs all the time. I'm an easy going person but it's scientifically proven (or so I was told by a shrink I worked for) that female hormones will literally drive a woman to be aggressive to another female sharing her home.

To be honest, Mom's living with me now after Hurricane Ike displaced her. We've had a few tiffs but really, it's not as bad as it was when I was in my late teens and twenties.

We've had a lot of conversations now that she's here..and she pretty much knows that I have no interest in men. And honestly..she took it SO much better than I thought she would. Lol, I dropped a lot of hints.

It's maturity and listening skills on the daughter's side that has to grow. At least, that's how it was for me. And an open mind on the mother's.

Give it time!

NJ

Couldn't help being drawn to your post. So glad you and your daughter found the right time to talk. As a mom; unconditional love, open communication, and encouragement for them to discover their own opinions of and aspirations in the world always felt important to me. They take it from there. Sounds like you're very supportive, which will help her overcome all life's challenges and seek out what makes her happy. Keep it up!

Shame on me for even thinking about giving advice! I felt a little like a hypocrite this weekend; finally choosing to share my fondness for women with my older daughter. Became preoccupied with "protecting" our family and community standing over the years, that I was just too chicken-shit to practice what I had preached for so long. Younger daughter is a strong Christian, and I can't bare to have her think less of me.

On a good note, eldest pup's birthday and we're having filet mignon! She has given me tonight's menu and I better get cracking for when she gets home.

Thanks! I know you are right. I've found that she fights me for both independence (in her own mind, because I am NOT and never have tried to control her, LOL) and because she can trust me and only me, to always love her no matter what.

There were years when she'd actually push us to a physical confrontations but now she controls herself better. I am very happy at her progress in this area so far.

Still she is a teen and often blames me instead of taking responsibility herself.

Night_Jasmine said:

It does get better as the kids get older. My mom and I...we fought like cats and dogs all the time. I'm an easy going person but it's scientifically proven (or so I was told by a shrink I worked for) that female hormones will literally drive a woman to be aggressive to another female sharing her home.

To be honest, Mom's living with me now after Hurricane Ike displaced her. We've had a few tiffs but really, it's not as bad as it was when I was in my late teens and twenties.

We've had a lot of conversations now that she's here..and she pretty much knows that I have no interest in men. And honestly..she took it SO much better than I thought she would. Lol, I dropped a lot of hints.

It's maturity and listening skills on the daughter's side that has to grow. At least, that's how it was for me. And an open mind on the mother's.

Give it time!

NJ

Click to expand...

I totally understand your conflict.

*hug*

Thanks for the kind words!

Freefall_mc said:

Couldn't help being drawn to your post. So glad you and your daughter found the right time to talk. As a mom; unconditional love, open communication, and encouragement for them to discover their own opinions of and aspirations in the world always felt important to me. They take it from there. Sounds like you're very supportive, which will help her overcome all life's challenges and seek out what makes her happy. Keep it up!

Shame on me for even thinking about giving advice! I felt a little like a hypocrite this weekend; finally choosing to share my fondness for women with my older daughter. Became preoccupied with "protecting" our family and community standing over the years, that I was just too chicken-shit to practice what I had preached for so long. Younger daughter is a strong Christian, and I can't bare to have her think less of me.

On a good note, eldest pup's birthday and we're having filet mignon! She has given me tonight's menu and I better get cracking for when she gets home.

Click to expand...

FurryFury said:

We talked about today. She said that she is fairly happy and doesn't think she has a real problem being a female at all. Sometimes she says, she just has to get away from all things female and sometimes from all things male.

At this point I'm feeling like this is a philosophical and/or sensitivity issue. Wherever she is getting all the female input it isn't me. I'm just not much of a girly girl.

Now the overload of maleness, yep, I can see where she is getting that at time. LOL.

Anyway, I'm in a better place now because we've talked.

Click to expand...

Some input from someone with first hand experience regarding this issue:

I don't know all the details, but from what I've read, there does not even have to be a real problem here. At least, it may not lie where it seems to be.

I was 22, when I started to seriously question my own gender identity. I had always received nothing but sopport and encouragement to find my own way of facing life and never felt any kind of pressure regarding my sexuality and plans for my life. When I realized my bisexuality two years earlier, I thought about it for half a minute, felt fine with it, and told my friends the next day. But when I started to question my gender, the thing really got to me for a couple of months. Even under the most favourable circumstances, it's not an easy thing to handle. Being 18 probably doesn't help either.
But after some months of doing lots of thinking and some research regarding gender, I came to the conclusion, that I most probably just are "a bit both male and female, but possibly neither really". I came to accept it and even embrace it, and I think I'm really happy with how things are now.

That said, there might be a possibility, that your daughter is just going through a phase of confusion. But you should also be open to the possibility, that it's really like she said. Not fitting neatly into the binary gender spectrum that is the standard of our society and culture.
Someone mentioned Gender Identity Disorder. It's important to know, that GID is NOT about having a unusual form of gender. It's only a disorder if you suffer because of it, because you can't handle what you are. So if she is having problems, it should not be tried to change what she is, but to help her accept what it is. - Whatever it may be. It's almost impossible to say for everyone but herself, and even quite difficult for her.

Our culture doesn't offer any gender models for such people and we have to figure it out on our own. It's probably never easy to do, so if you are in such a situation, it always creates some tension. For me, my greatest problem that gnaws on me, is how to express my identity to others. Though I lived as a male for the past 25 years, I feel very uncomfortable thinking that other see me that way. But if you lived like that for so long, you picked up so many "male" habits, that you'll never get rid of them again. And that often makes me feel like "forgetting" or even unconsciously denying what I am, and that always makes me feel pretty bad.
But it is a "condition" you can definately live with and live a happy life. I think especially a young woman living in these days, probably has it as easy as it ever was for centuries.

So my advice in short: Try to find out what she feels she is, and what she feels she needs. And of course, support her in figuring out to archieve this.
(You also might look up the terms "androgyne" and "intergender", but again, that's only one of many possibilities. It might also be something completely different.


And yes, fighting with parents is completely normal. That does not have to be related to it at all.
I made it through the last 2 months at my parents home only by thinking "It's just two more months, no need to start a fight about it now." And my mom did he same.

Thanks Little Bird, that was a great and thought provoking post.

I often use the "it's just X period of time" thing to get through things too!

Eight years later my oldest and now adult child is non binary, Bi Polar, has Major Depression and anxiety, ADHD and still, very much loved at 26. Sometimes I worry that they (preferred pronoun) will never been fully functional and independent again after some medical and mental (which are also medical btw) set backs.

It may just be me, but I find the more scientific explanations of gender development to be very helpful. I believe that every person is unique in many ways, and gender is one of those ways. Below is a link to an interesting 5 part series of articles on the Medscape website which provides a lot of information about this and some of the reasons. I'll put it here for the OP and/or any other person who may find this kind of info helpful. Our societies really, really do need to move beyond the binary concept of gender so all humans can be happy in their own skin. Hope this might help you explain things to her so she knows she's perfect regardless of what she discovers about herself as time goes forward ~

Gender Identity --> http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/917990-overview#aw2aab6b3

Thanks!

yukonnights said:

It may just be me, but I find the more scientific explanations of gender development to be very helpful. I believe that every person is unique in many ways, and gender is one of those ways. Below is a link to an interesting 5 part series of articles on the Medscape website which provides a lot of information about this and some of the reasons. I'll put it here for the OP and/or any other person who may find this kind of info helpful. Our societies really, really do need to move beyond the binary concept of gender so all humans can be happy in their own skin. Hope this might help you explain things to her so she knows she's perfect regardless of what she discovers about herself as time goes forward ~

Gender Identity --> http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/917990-overview#aw2aab6b3

Click to expand...

Several years ago, I heard a few stories about my adult son (married with kids) from his older sisters who have caught him with other guys. When alone with him, I told him there were stories going around about him. He started the usual denials and I just told him that if he is gay/bi, I understand completely, that he'll always be my son and I love him. And if he ever wanted to talk about it, I'm here for him. I came very close to coming out for him, but decided that if he decides to have that talk, then I'll tell him about me and some family history that isn't talked about.

FurryFury said:

Eight years later my oldest and now adult child is non binary, Bi Polar, has Major Depression and anxiety, ADHD and still, very much loved at 26. Sometimes I worry that they (preferred pronoun) will never been fully functional and independent again after some medical and mental (which are also medical btw) set backs.

Click to expand...

It's odd, I stumbled across this thread today and was reading from the beginning. My first thought when I saw your initial post was that no matter how awkward it may seem, try your hardest to always use "they/them" pronouns. I'm sure it's incredibly difficult for parents to be able to separate the person they deeply love from the gender of that person, but it will make a huge difference in helping them understand that your love in truly unconditional. Even seemingly meaningless things like changing the affectionate names you use (i.e., using "buddy" instead of "sweetie") will help.

Sounds like it's been a rough 8 years, but I hope you never lose heart that they will emerge from this struggle SO MUCH better off because of having an amazing mom!

Most parents (mine included) still refuse to accept something as common as a different sexual orientation in their kids. So I just wanted to give you a quick verbal hug of thanks and to remind you in case you forget that you're pretty damn awesome.

Ks_man said:

start with "I love you" and go from there

Click to expand...

Great advice.

I feel ya.

Mqoi said:

Several years ago, I heard a few stories about my adult son (married with kids) from his older sisters who have caught him with other guys. When alone with him, I told him there were stories going around about him. He started the usual denials and I just told him that if he is gay/bi, I understand completely, that he'll always be my son and I love him. And if he ever wanted to talk about it, I'm here for him. I came very close to coming out for him, but decided that if he decides to have that talk, then I'll tell him about me and some family history that isn't talked about.

Click to expand...

Wow! Thanks!

I have a friend going through this with her, now, grandson. I think it's hard for everyone but for her, she can use masculine pronouns which I would be more comfortable, you know, one or the other. Her biggest issue other than wrapping her head around it is NOT using the preferred pronouns with people her grandson hasn't come out to yet. I get that.

I'll keep trying and keep loving. It's what moms do.

SarahS97 said:

It's odd, I stumbled across this thread today and was reading from the beginning. My first thought when I saw your initial post was that no matter how awkward it may seem, try your hardest to always use "they/them" pronouns. I'm sure it's incredibly difficult for parents to be able to separate the person they deeply love from the gender of that person, but it will make a huge difference in helping them understand that your love in truly unconditional. Even seemingly meaningless things like changing the affectionate names you use (i.e., using "buddy" instead of "sweetie") will help.

Sounds like it's been a rough 8 years, but I hope you never lose heart that they will emerge from this struggle SO MUCH better off because of having an amazing mom!

Most parents (mine included) still refuse to accept something as common as a different sexual orientation in their kids. So I just wanted to give you a quick verbal hug of thanks and to remind you in case you forget that you're pretty damn awesome.

Click to expand...

My oldest per is now on T and doesn't feel male or female. Had another physical crisis set back last November and is finally back from that. They are possibly poised once again for take off. Currently they have support groups that they sometimes go to and seem to enjoy life which is wonderful.

Have you had either of your kids specifically assessed for ASD ( Aspergers )? Aspies are frequently puzzled by gender and often can't put a finger on what gender they are. Doesn't mean that they are of course, but maybe another thing to check given your posts about bipolar & ADHD, which are often conditions mistakenly ascribed to Aspies.

A counselor said that my oldest is on the spectrum. Hard for me to see. And the next counselor said the testing wasn't done correctly. But over the years there are more and more signs. So this is a bit up in the air.

I'm genderfluid and I would NEVER tell my mom. She'll die not knowing.

So the fact that she feels like she can talk to you is a really good sign. Coming in from the other side, as the kid, I know what I would want.

I would want someone who didn't try to push me, especially as a teenager. You SHOULD be questioning everything at 18. Let her figure herself out and then accept whatever she tells you.

We put way, way too much emphasis on gender, as a society. I'm lucky in that I pass both ways, so I can totally get how growing boobs that you're not sure you want could really mess with your head, because if you're genderfluid and not trans, then the body dysphoria will never really go away, it'll just be something that you have to deal with, forever.

There's a lot to it because of a bunch of social stuff that makes things harder than they need to be, and you can't navigate that for someone else, you can only support them.

If I had had a family that supported me at 18, I wouldn't have done some of the risky stuff I did, probably. I'll never know because it wasn't an option.

Thanks!

Both of my now adult kids have some serious issues but they know they can talk to me and trust me regardless. I do feel good about that.