Professional women that secretly like to be dominated

Gianbattista said:

My heart is always gladdened when I meet a women who says she has experienced no off putting, unwanted attention in her life, no inappropriate grabs or touches on public transport or in pubs or clubs, not 'abuse' as we think of it, but 'uncomfortable' comment or touching from people ever, no pressure to do something unwanted....

Click to expand...

cascadiabound said:

I can not recall the last woman I had a conversation with that would have elicited this type of information who did not have at least one of those experiences.

Elle...it gladdens my heart that such women actually exist in the world.

Click to expand...

We exist

Looking back, even before I was sexually active ConNonCon was a fantasy. I did a lot of writing and most of my themes included this, or put a character in a situation where she couldn't say no. I didn't realize this was something other people wanted until Master, who shared the same fantasy with me. (Him being the "rapist").

I worked a lot of retail and food, a daycare for a while, then a veterinary clinic while I worked towards my final degree. The clinic was the most high stress job I've had, but as a technician I was not a "head person", the job is just high paced and difficult.

I've never been sexually abused, unless you count years of really terrible vanilla sex.

My older brother is also into BDSM, his GF is my best friend, I didn't want details so I just know that he's a PYL. He was sexually abused as a child. They have done some ConNonCon but it's not something they do alot or need.

In my experience, the relcon female is a common male fantasy. I recall reading a research somewhere (can't find it right now) that a very common fantasy for men is a) man found a girl tied up, b) he fucked her tied up that she climaxed, c) he untied her and she begged for more, never mind the noncon/relcon.

So the uptight "ice bitch/queen" secretly craving to be dominated in private is just an extension on that, except it replaced real ropes with social ties and expectations.

KayceeCharles said:

In my experience, the relcon female is a common male fantasy. I recall reading a research somewhere (can't find it right now) that a very common fantasy for men is a) man found a girl tied up, b) he fucked her tied up that she climaxed, c) he untied her and she begged for more, never mind the noncon/relcon.

So the uptight "ice bitch/queen" secretly craving to be dominated in private is just an extension on that, except it replaced real ropes with social ties and expectations.

Click to expand...

Love it.

I'm no CFO, but I am a Director at a fortune 500 Company, early 30s, have my doctorate. I love it, beyond measure. No sexual abuse, there is just something about being tied up/ treated roughly that gets me wet. I've always been that way, was too afraid to ask. Luckily I've discovered my husband is always game. . . .yes we exist, are real, and it's surely a thing xxxxxx

Hazardo said:

Cliché maybe, but accurate, so worth pointing out to someone who hasn't thought about it. Would you prefer me not to state any established psychology in future threads?

Click to expand...

Established?
As established by what school of thought, exactly? Before you go presenting something as fact, instead of just citing vague personal experience, you would do well to actually back up your claims with something reputable, instead of copping an attitude when your statement is viewed as superficial rhetoric.

Hazardo said:

It's really common in high powered women. My ex was in a high powered position and could only get off by being held down and called a whore.

The psychology makes sense if you think about. Spend your life dealing with responsibility, dragging people up to your level, and working your ass off, the idea of a guy who will just take all the stress of sex away and give you the pleasure you desire without you having to have yet more responsibility and control ... that's got to be appealing. And of course, for that to make sense, that's going to manifest itself as a whole bunch of various fantasies, including non-consent. Wanting to be degraded a called a whore ... it's all part of that image in their head of what a powerful guy would be like, and obviously they're typically so confident that they don't really take offense to the comment (as they don't believe it on any level), so can just revel in the sexualisation of those extreme words.

Click to expand...

It makes sense, when viewed as a sweeping generalization aimed at women in positions of power, or as a frustrated male power fantasy. The psychology of someone's sexual preferences are made up of a complex mix of experiences during formative years, how the brain processes external stimuli, individual interpretations of societal influence, and about a hundred other things. Consigning an easily recognized pattern ( popularized mostly by fiction, look around ) does nothing more than degrade the individual by slapping a classification on them, effectively labeling them as something they more than likely are not, and provides misinformation to those that have no frame of reference for the topic, perpetuating further ignorance.

Established psychology. Individual speculation. Big difference.

Hazardo said:

As someone who has a non-consent side to my kink, I've spent about 8 years on an NC forum. There are countless female members whose story involves surviving abuse and that being the start of their NC fantasy exploration. Whether you think that unlocked a latent kink or psychologically changed them, the fact remains that key life experience was the turning point for them.

I'm not implying this is the hard and fast rule for everyone. Of course I'm not implying everyone who gets raped suddenly develops an NC kink. Nor am I implying that all women in a high powered job want to be subs, and nobody in lower powered jobs do. I'm merely proposing explanations which apply to some people, and are a possible answer to the OPs question.

Click to expand...

... I'm curious to know. When does a FACT ( pulled straight from "established psychology ", mind you ) explaining the origins behind a group's sexual inclinations, not applicable? Or... Are we supposed to see past your words to the fact within the fact? A dream within a dream? A herp within a derp? Logic's for pussies? What the fuck are you talking about?!?

Hazardo said:

Would anyone like to have sensible discussions considering each others' points and looking for common ground without making jabs? That'd be a pleasant community attitude.

Click to expand...

Yes, but only if you get down off that shitty, backwards pedaling bicycle, and say something of worth, pumpkin

_Necrosomantic_ said:

Established?
As established by what school of thought, exactly? Before you go presenting something as fact, instead of just citing vague personal experience, you would do well to actually back up your claims with something reputable, instead of copping an attitude when your statement is viewed as superficial rhetoric.



It makes sense, when viewed as a sweeping generalization aimed at women in positions of power, or as a frustrated male power fantasy. The psychology of someone's sexual preferences are made up of a complex mix of experiences during formative years, how the brain processes external stimuli, individual interpretations of societal influence, and about a hundred other things. Consigning an easily recognized pattern ( popularized mostly by fiction, look around ) does nothing more than degrade the individual by slapping a classification on them, effectively labeling them as something they more than likely are not, and provides misinformation to those that have no frame of reference for the topic, perpetuating further ignorance.

Established psychology. Individual speculation. Big difference.

... I'm curious to know. When does a FACT ( pulled straight from "established psychology ", mind you ) explaining the origins behind a group's sexual inclinations, not applicable? Or... Are we supposed to see past your words to the fact within the fact? A dream within a dream? A herp within a derp? Logic's for pussies? What the fuck are you talking about?!?

Yes, but only if you get down off that shitty, backwards pedaling bicycle, and say something of worth, pumpkin

Click to expand...

As usual...looking around for the LIKE button after reading one of your posts NSM

A study was done here:

Attractiveness of the underling: An automatic power → sex association and its consequences for sexual harassment and aggression.
Bargh, John A.; Raymond, Paula; Pryor, John B.; Strack, Fritz
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 68(5), May 1995, 768-781. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.68.5.768

They did two experiments. In the first they found that in the selected group of men whom are likely to aggress or sexually harass there was an existence and automaticity of mental association between sex and power.

In the second experiment, they took the male participants and primed them with either power stimuli or neutral stimuli and found that the males who were sexually aggressive and exposure to the power stimuli. The attraction metrics were significantly higher to the females in the study group. The same correlation was not found among the non sexually aggressive males as to the higher attraction ratings by the females.

While this is only one study, to me it showed that power affects different males that were likely to agress differently then males who did not show that trait. It also showed that there was a link where the females in the study showed an attraction toward the males state of behavior after the power stimuli was primed. While not exactly "Domination" it does show that certain males behavior traits are rated higher to some females at a statistically significant number.

I'd be very curious to see if they reversed the experiment and exposed females likely to agress to power stimuli if they would become more or less attractive to a confederate group of males.

I think one has to be very careful in there application of stereotypical bias in assuming what would be vs what has been shown to be. That being said there may be some support for a subconscious link between males framed into sexually powerful states and attractiveness to females observing them in this state.

As to the relativity and relationship of the reciprocal and if it links at all to professional women or just women we need more peer reviewed data and experiments to cut through the obfuscatory veil of our collective ingnorance.

Vorpalone said:

A study was done here:

Attractiveness of the underling: An automatic power → sex association and its consequences for sexual harassment and aggression.
Bargh, John A.; Raymond, Paula; Pryor, John B.; Strack, Fritz
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 68(5), May 1995, 768-781. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.68.5.768

They did two experiments. In the first they found that in the selected group of men whom are likely to aggress or sexually harass there was an existence and automaticity of mental association between sex and power.

In the second experiment, they took the male participants and primed them with either power stimuli or neutral stimuli and found that the males who were sexually aggressive and exposure to the power stimuli. The attraction metrics were significantly higher to the females in the study group. The same correlation was not found among the non sexually aggressive males as to the higher attraction ratings by the females.

Click to expand...

I don't have the full text of that study, only the abstract, but I think you're misinterpreting it. The abstract says (emphasis mine):

In Experiment 2, male participants were unobtrusively primed with either power related or neutral stimuli. For men likely to sexually aggress, but not other participants, attraction ratings of a female confederate were significantly higher in the power priming than the neutral priming condition.

Click to expand...

You appear to be interpreting the bolded text as "women's ratings of these men's attractiveness". While the wording is ambiguous, I'm pretty sure the correct interpretation is actually "these men's ratings of women's attractiveness" - they're talking about ratings OF women, not BY women. Note the article title: "attractiveness of the underling".

Note also the word "confederate". In psychological work, a confederate is somebody who pretends to be another subject of the experiment but is actually working for the researchers. It would be very odd to base analysis on a confederate's ratings, since she has pre-knowledge of the experiment.

See also this related work by Bargh and Raymond which says: "It is shown, for example, that for men likely to sexually harass, merely activating the concept of power without their knowledge causes them to find the same woman more attractive."

So the take-home from that work is not "women find aggressive men more attractive when those men are powerful" but "aggressive men are more sexual when they feel powerful". It says nothing at all about women's attitudes towards those men.

Also, as you've acknowledged, nonconsensual aggression/harassment is VERY different to BDSM, so we can't assume the same drivers. There are plenty of people who are turned on by nonconsent as a fantasy but revolted by the reality.

I would like to watch my wife being sexually dominated by a younger woman.

cookiecat said:

In April of 2009, psychologist Patricia Hawley published a paper in the Journal of Sex that studied how each gender responded to dominant sex. She concluded it is true that "alpha" women responded more positively than any other group to the idea of being dominated. The reason, however, wasn't the act of submitting. Instead, Hawley writes:

Click to expand...

Is that this article?

Hawley, Patricia H.; Hensley, William A. (10 November 2009). "Social Dominance and Forceful Submission Fantasies: Feminine Pathology or Power?". Journal of Sex Research. 46 (6): 568–585. doi:10.1080/00224490902878985.

http://patriciahawley.org/Publications/HawleyHensley_JSR_ 2009.pdf

It seems to me to be more about rape fantasy/forced seduction (whatever the difference is...?) in romance novels - are these the main appeals of submitting in the context of BDSM?

Bramblethorn said:

I don't have the full text of that study, only the abstract, but I think you're misinterpreting it. The abstract says (emphasis mine):



You appear to be interpreting the bolded text as "women's ratings of these men's attractiveness". While the wording is ambiguous, I'm pretty sure the correct interpretation is actually "these men's ratings of women's attractiveness" - they're talking about ratings OF women, not BY women. Note the article title: "attractiveness of the underling".

Note also the word "confederate". In psychological work, a confederate is somebody who pretends to be another subject of the experiment but is actually working for the researchers. It would be very odd to base analysis on a confederate's ratings, since she has pre-knowledge of the experiment.

See also this related work by Bargh and Raymond which says: "It is shown, for example, that for men likely to sexually harass, merely activating the concept of power without their knowledge causes them to find the same woman more attractive."

So the take-home from that work is not "women find aggressive men more attractive when those men are powerful" but "aggressive men are more sexual when they feel powerful". It says nothing at all about women's attitudes towards those men.

Also, as you've acknowledged, nonconsensual aggression/harassment is VERY different to BDSM, so we can't assume the same drivers. There are plenty of people who are turned on by nonconsent as a fantasy but revolted by the reality.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the link,

Upon review it is probable that your correct in your interpretation. The text in the abstract and the paper was someone ambiguous. I was unaware of the jargon and while I was not purposely spouting fallacilaoqience, as you point out my interpretation was flawed.

I was if fact a C level executive for a number of years so the subject is interesting to me in a retrospective fashion. I dealt with countless female professionals over the years and while I never pursued any workplace or industry relationships I did find that from my perception they defiantly seemed to have a liminal attraction toward various men prone to dominance. My observations stem from my frequent dealings with numerous law firm principals and litigation attorneys. I found many tended to be more alligator then litigator and pressed to dominate within the scope of their practices.

I'm going to look into it and see what I can learn.

Wow. This is a great topic and one that I don't get to talk about very often although I do have strong feelings about it.

First off, I should confess I have been for years and still am guilty of reading a fair amount of what some of you would probably call pulp romance novels.

Second, I am a relatively tall woman (almost 5'11") nearing 40 who wears heels and dresses for work and I have a somewhat high profile job where I have a fair amount of latitude to call the shots on a day-to-day basis.

That being said, part of the appeal I have for strong, dominating men (like the man I married despite frequent arguments) is that, honestly, I get my way more often than not, at work and in the bedroom even with what you'd probably call an alpha male.

Not getting my way, or being told I can't get my way, simultaneously pisses me off AND, often, is a huge (usually inconvenient) turn-on.

It's my theory that those two conflicting emotions, or perhaps you might call them reactions, are what fuel my secret fire. I'm totally guilty of tell me I can't have something and I want it more, even if I didn't originally want it.

I think it boils down to power, perceived power and honestly, trusting someone else enough to want to give them your power - which is HUGE, at least for me. Most of my customers are men. I like being thought of as tough and I work at projecting confidence. I like being respected (or feared lol) at work but I like being a woman sometimes too.

Maybe I've read too many romance novels and self-help books, but that's my theory - at least until we're stuck in an elevator together for hours and you convince me to play strip poker with you and (I decide to let) you win because the building's on fire and there's a strong chance we're going to die anyway.

I'm in charge except when I want you to be in charge but I'm not going to tell you when I want you to be in charge and if you guess wrong there's going to be hell to pay.

Nothing to add, just saying hi to Liz.

submit4pleasure69 said:

I wonder if there are any professional, well educated women that have high end jobs that secretly like to be dominated and used by a man. Years ago I worked for a office cleaning company and was seduced by an older women, she was in her 40s and I was in my 20s. She was the CFO (chief financial officer) of this big company and I was on the custodial staff. She came on strong and I'm not one to turn down a hot women. So we started banging during her lunch break. The thing is she wanted me to dominate her, treat her like a cheap slut and I did. The dirtier and more aggressive I got the more she loved it. So are there any professional women out there that are the same? Professional well educated business women that secretly wants to be fucked like a cheap slut by the guy that cleans your office?

Click to expand...

Some do and some don't. It can sometimes be a big thrill for those in management or ownership status, or maybe in a high stress life, to enjoy someone else taking over the control in their sex lives, but you can't expect it from everybody.

I have met a few women who were that way, but I've also met executive women who were dominant in their sex lives, too. It's said that they have to be in control all day long in their day to day lives and so they subconsciously enjoy letting their partner control all aspects of their sex lives. And there are some who have no idea at all about what BDSM sex is like, because so many people are just very vanilla until and unless they are open to it and someone helps them experience it. That can be very volatile, too, if not handled correctly.

I must also add that men in management or ownership positions can also prefer to be submissive in their sexual lives. And, just like with women, men don't always prefer this kind of thing, so you can't just expect it, the next time you meet a business owner.

And also just like women, it's entirely possible that many men have no idea about BDSM sex and unless they are welcome to experimenting new things, they may never find out.

The subconscious mind is quite interesting. People can repress their desires and needs and never know how to bring them to the surface. But, if they are open to it, and they have a sexual partner who is willing and also patient enough to help someone investigate their inner most secrets, satisfying experiences can happen.

I've recently attempted to help an abused woman come to terms with her repressed sexual desires. She has hidden them deeply inside her subconscious mind and is very, VERY reluctant to ever trust a man again. I know she could get over this, if she is just willing to trust someone again, but she has been hurt by someone she thought she knew and loved and while he's in jail, she's also in a kind of mental jail, herself.

Trust is a very large part of any relation ship and trust and BDSM are two things that should always go together. If a trust is broken in a BDSM relationship, it's very difficult to ever gain that person's trust again.

A submissive woman gives you her body and mind to control. She knows you both have talked out what was to happen before hand and you told her you agreed to her terms, her desires and mostly of all, her limits.

If you break that trust with her, you not only damage the trust she had for you and most likely will never trust you again...she might not ever trust anybody else again, either. It's one of the most important things you can do in a relationship...gain and hold their trust. Don't ever break it. It's like breaking a sacred code between the two of you.

DVS sighting!!!! Wow. Missed you dude.

DVS said:

Some do and some don't. It can sometimes be a big thrill for those in management or ownership status, or maybe in a high stress life, to enjoy someone else taking over the control in their sex lives, but you can't expect it from everybody.

I have met a few women who were that way, but I've also met executive women who were dominant in their sex lives, too.

Click to expand...

Ayup. And there are impoverished subs working crappy McJobs or living on disability, too.

Perceptions of BDSM are VERY much influenced by observer effects. Somebody who's working two jobs to make ends meet is less likely to find time to post on boards like this one, and even if they do they may not feel like calling attention to their poverty. They almost certainly won't be heading to BDSM clubs with an entry charge. So that sort of person is almost invisible to discussions like this one.

I for one am a professional, very in control, often considered intimidating, assertive, well-respected, and highly educated professional woman (and modest and beautiful ).

Today I have to give a professional talk and I am dressed to the nines. But, I will tell you, the more stress I am under, the more control I am expected to exert, and the more deadlines I must meet, the more need I feel to be "taken" and dominated.

Part of being a Type A alpha-female is not feeling comfortable abdicating control. I think that is why I like the thought of a larger imposing male figure "taking" the control from me. This way I needn't feel I've sacrificed my position. Having someone bigger and more aggressive than me allows me to relax.

So, I think it makes sense that as I (dare I say, many women) feel increase stress and pressure, I feel an increased craving to be dominated.

Just my $.02. Have a wonderful day lovely people.

K

Wet from Restraint

Eros322 said:

I'm no CFO, but I am a Director at a fortune 500 Company, early 30s, have my doctorate. I love it, beyond measure. No sexual abuse, there is just something about being tied up/ treated roughly that gets me wet. I've always been that way, was too afraid to ask. Luckily I've discovered my husband is always game. . . .yes we exist, are real, and it's surely a thing xxxxxx

Click to expand...

I am no where near being in your league Eros, but Oh God I have the same desires. I get so wet just being tied up by another woman before she even touches me with sexual intent.

Bramblethorn said:

Ayup. And there are impoverished subs working crappy McJobs or living on disability, too.

Perceptions of BDSM are VERY much influenced by observer effects. Somebody who's working two jobs to make ends meet is less likely to find time to post on boards like this one, and even if they do they may not feel like calling attention to their poverty. They almost certainly won't be heading to BDSM clubs with an entry charge. So that sort of person is almost invisible to discussions like this one.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. A big voice is missing in this discussion, and it does not mean that it doesn't exist.

My GF likes to be dominated at times; she has a high power job and when she comes home she usually texts me how she wants it to be. Tonight we are going out to dinner with our gay couple and she texted me:
Tight black dress, heels, rhinestone butt plug, NO PANTIES
I had been texted earlier to pleasure myself , enema myself so she will have a quickie with our strap on and large dildo before we leave.
I've learned to follow instructions exactly. This works for us.
A few times she has asked me to give her a very hot,high enema and then fuck her ass. I think this was because things did not go well that day and she wanted punishment. It brought her to tears. She took a nap and then called for me to hold her and she suckled my breasts until she fell asleep. I have learned to look for clues as to what to do.

GrrlFriday said:

Is that this article?

Hawley, Patricia H.; Hensley, William A. (10 November 2009). "Social Dominance and Forceful Submission Fantasies: Feminine Pathology or Power?". Journal of Sex Research. 46 (6): 568–585. doi:10.1080/00224490902878985.

http://patriciahawley.org/Publications/HawleyHensley_JSR_ 2009.pdf

It seems to me to be more about rape fantasy/forced seduction (whatever the difference is...?) in romance novels - are these the main appeals of submitting in the context of BDSM?

Click to expand...

No. I can't say being forced is the main appeal - for me - in submitting to someone else. I don't want my guy to wrestle my submission out of me. I want to serve him joyfully. I submit because I want to serve him. I put his pleasure, his needs before mine. Submission isn't always related to sex. It's the desire to see someone pleased or content or happy because of my actions. It can be rubbing his feet after a long day.

There is a sub-set (!!!) of sexual acts related to non-consent. I'm not quite sure this has anything to do with being submissive. It might be a submissive act but you don't have to identify as submissive to engage in this stuff. It's just a fun, kinky "take me, make me be a bad girl" fantasy.

I pointed this out earlier:

In April of 2009, psychologist Patricia Hawley published a paper in the Journal of Sex that studied how each gender responded to dominant sex. She concluded it is true that "alpha" women responded more positively than any other group to the idea of being dominated. The reason, however, wasn't the act of submitting. <snip> She discovered women fantasize about aggressive lovers because it makes the women feel desirable, not because they like being physically hurt or rejected.

Click to expand...

So, it's more about getting turned on that a guy is so crazy with lust for you, he had to have you NOW... it has more to do with desire than force.

In the end, though, I'm not sure the reasons why matter. Whether you're a stressed out, in charge alpha type woman or a happy go lucky chick, can't we just all enjoy our consentual non-consent rape play?

Bringing it back to your question, though, the rape fantasy romance novel stuff is is not submission in a bdsm context.

BDSM relationships are about power transfer. The sub relinquishes power to the dom, trusting the dom will not abuse the power.

Asking for a particular roleplay / fantasy is basically PRETENDING to lose control of the situation, and get lost in the moment, get the emotional release, to face the rest of the day.

And lifestyle partners can read each other's desires... AND moods AND thoughts. It's what separates a real D/s pair and wannabes (or pretenders).

Correct, rape fantasy romance has NOTHING to do with submission in the BDSM sense.

Rape fantasy is basically implied pretext about desire, and desire leads to passion, and passion to steamy sex. As stated before, he want me THIS MUCH, OMG, I'M SO WET! (ahem!)

It's a duality where the man will be rough to possess her, but turns into gentle and accommodating lover once in bed, demand ONLY what she can give.