I'm relatively new here and looking for experienced input

M

Mordikai

Guest
Hi

I have been fortunate enough to have had three submissions accepted in the non-consensual story category. I started submitting them in order to improve my story telling but have been disappointed in how little feedback I have received. 12 thousand views 60 star ratings and 2 comments is a paltry return.

So I am requesting feedback to help improve my writing. I am happy to read your stories in return and feedback If you wish... I am old but am inexperienced in story writing.

I was so tempted to put I don't know much about writing but I know what I like.

Here are the links
http://www.literotica.com/s/the-stranger-58
http://www.literotica.com/s/the-devil-and-danni
http://www.literotica.com/s/the-devil-and-danni-ch-02
 
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The typical percentage of votes to views around here is between .50% and 1%, so you're right on the norm, there.

Your "Devil and" series might find more of an audience in Non Human or Sci-Fi & Fantasy. For the most part, stories containing any sort of fantasy elements/creatures perform poorly outside of those two categories, while stories in those two categories can have wide ranging kinks, so long as the fantasy elements are there.

Personally, I feel your stories are too short. The straight-up non-con story isn't really my thing, but I should imagine that the two or three sentences of sexual activity hurt you there.

The devil story is likewise short on sex. In Sci-Fi & Fantasy, you can get away with that, but there's also not enough story to carry it. It's what I call "set-up and sex" ( My primary forte in this pen name ) but that kind of story needs a big pay-off in the sex department to do well, and you don't really have it.

You're writing pure non-con as well. That generally doesn't do well, and it's also #2 for content based rejections, right behind underage. Those stories also have a track record of being rejected after the fact when reported by readers. ( Did that possibly happen with Ch. 02, which you have linked, but leads to a "awaiting approval" page? )

If that's your kink, you may have a frustrating time with publishing on Literotica.

In my opinion, you need to give a little more set-up, and absolutely need to expand the sex in your stories. The bulk of the readership is here looking for sexual gratification. Everything else they can find in mainstream publishing.
 
cheers reject reality

Thank you for that, I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment. I really didn't think that I'd have to put more sex in, maybe I am in the wrong place or at least the wrong category.
I also appreciate knowing about reporting, it seems odd to have a category , then people go there to complain... it's instagram all over again.
 
I don't think it's strange for readers on a porn site to expect to find wall-to-wall sex in a nonconsent category story. So, the "wrong place" might be a possibility. "Nonconsent" here seems to be the "get-past-the-policy-barrier" gateway for rape stories. That's what many would expect to find in the category.
 
Thank you for that, I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment. I really didn't think that I'd have to put more sex in, maybe I am in the wrong place or at least the wrong category.
I also appreciate knowing about reporting, it seems odd to have a category , then people go there to complain... it's instagram all over again.

LIts a little confusing and more than a little contradictory when it comes to non consent or rape fantasies.

They have a rule that at some point the "victim" should begin to enjoy the sex, therefore making it more into reluctance.

But the problem is they have a category called non consent, which by definition would be rape so people assume they can put the material here and I can't say I blame them.

What lit really wants-according to their rule which is enforced erratically as you can see by all the 'true rape' stories on here-is more along the lines of reluctance, but for some reason they call it non con...

If those full out non con stories are what you enjoy writing then lit will be frustrating for you. Some stories will be approved some rejected depending on...who knows? Lush stories does not allow non con, but strictly enforces it.

Storiesonline I am not familiar with their policy, but I know asstr.org has no limits, it could be your best bet.
 
I think the point being proposed is that the stories don't have enough graphic sex in them to do real well in Non-Consent here, not that they have too much.
 
I think the point being proposed is that the stories don't have enough graphic sex in them to do real well in Non-Consent here, not that they have too much.

So you think the story was reported for that reason?

I don't think I've heard 'not enough sex' as a reason for a story to be reported, but...who knows?
 
Who said it was reported? Are you on the thread you seem to think you're on? RR gives that as a possibility (but it may just still be in the normal wait for posting), but that isn't any part of the OP's question.
 
Who said it was reported? Are you on the thread you seem to think you're on? RR gives that as a possibility (but it may just still be in the normal wait for posting), but that isn't any part of the OP's question.

Here is the link

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-devil-and-danni-ch-02

That is not a normal wait for posting....a story has no link until it becomes live.

This is how a story reads when it has been posted then removed after being reported while it is "investigated" If laurel seems to think its okay it will become live again, if not the OP has to fix whatever is wrong and resubmit

Looking at the posts it seems he was unaware it was removed and how would he know? There's no notice if a story is pulled you only see it if you look on your page.

If the story had never posted-as in it says pending on his page-there would be no link for it.

RR was discussing multiple stories and said this

You're writing pure non-con as well. That generally doesn't do well, and it's also #2 for content based rejections, right behind underage. Those stories also have a track record of being rejected after the fact when reported by readers. ( Did that possibly happen with Ch. 02, which you have linked, but leads to a "awaiting approval" page? )

which is what I am agreeing with as in if the OP wants to write 'real non consent" he's not going to have an easy go of it here. The rule is applied inconsistently and some will pass some may be rejected.

I'd like to note that the story in question passed and was then reported. Another testament to the "screening" process here.:rolleyes:

At this point the readers and authors have become the true 'editors' here.
 
Congratulations on putting work out there and expressing yourself. Connecting with readers is an incredibly rewarding feeling—and although learning to be a better writer (a lesson we all need to learn and keep learning, always) is daunting and difficult, it’s even more rewarding. Let’s take a look at what you’ve got on the board right now.


Personally, I feel your stories are too short.

I agree--or at least, I agree that both the stories you've presented already are too brief. “The Stranger" is only a little over 750 words. Now, that might be a fine length for some stories (although it is very, very brief by any standard), but it seems too little for this. As a rule, a story should be as long as it needs to be to communicate everything the reader needs to know, and then no longer than that, but that will always vary. Ideally, you’ll learn to “feel” when a story has reached its conclusion. When it’s over, a story of the appropriate dimensions will impart a sense of finality and gratification. Readers will feel neither that they’ve been left hanging nor that they’ve just slogged through something that was padded. With practice, most writers will find that gauging comes very naturally most of the time.

Let’s look at “The Stranger” in a bit more detail:

She had just been leaving the sex shop as I was going in, she gave me one of those looks, the sort that tells you to get back under the stone you crawled out from.

Your sentence structure (both here and in general) is messy and wordy. You’ve got at least one comma splice here and possibly even two? A better way to arrange this sentence would be:

“She was leaving the sex shop as I was going in and she gave me a look that said, ‘Get back under the stone you crawled out of.’”

Read the original sentence and this one out loud and I think you’ll find that the second sounds more natural. It’s also better grammatically, since it doesn’t join independent clauses with commas. And it's more concise: 28 words instead of 35. Yes, I realize I was telling you a moment ago that I thought this story was already too brief, but bad sentences aren’t a substitute for good pacing. And I’m going to tell you now: Almost every sentence in this story suffers from these same problems.

Furthermore, I’m unclear on the nature of the interaction happening here. What was this woman’s problem? Did the Stranger come on to her in some way, or did she simply not like the look of him for some reason? This is a very important distinction because it could paint both of these characters in two radically different lights, and this is the first time we’re meeting either of them. What the reader thinks is going on here will have a big impact on how they feel about the rest of the story. But right now I’m not sure what to think at all.

I carried on into the shop and by chance noticed a piece of paper on the counter, I smiled. It had a woman's name, address and phone number and details of an interesting order.

Really? This sex shop leaves customers’ personal information lying around unattended? This is a pretty big leap very early in the story. Readers will cut some slack to fiction for stretching the bounds of credulity—it is, after all, fiction—and doubly so for porn, but there are always limits, and this is something that would just never happen. Even worse, this is part of your inciting incident: The entire story hinges on something that almost no one is going to believe or take seriously, so we can’t even call this mistake incidental. I think the story would be much improved if the Stranger found a more plausible way to get his victim’s personal information, not only because it would remove this contrivance but also because it would probably give us more insight into how he thinks and operates.

A car pulls up in the drive and out she gets; it's her, the girl from the shop. My luck really is in, for the next few weeks I follow her and get to know her routine, what there is of one. She seemed to work when she felt like it, often spent all day and night at home alone.

An older man, her next door neighbour, seemed to be her most frequent visitor. Sometimes a woman, I later discovered was her sister, brought children over, other visitors were infrequent. In time I found out the neighbour was her dad, but the most important detail that I discovered was that she rarely if ever went out or had visitors after 9 pm.


So who is this woman? What does he do? What’s this routine he’s observing? Why does she spend so much time alone? Why the trip to the sex shop? I would suggest that another way to greatly improve this story would be for us to see more of what the Stranger sees and learn more about what he learns during this time he spends observing her. Not only would this fill the reader in on who one of the two primary characters is (and do it by letting us observe her actions, which is one of the best and smartest ways to provide characterization), it would also give us an avenue to learn and know more about the Stranger. It would put us in his shoes: We’d be doing and seeing the same things he sees and does. In a way, we would become him, as we imagine the actions the story describes from his point of view.

With a few paragraphs you could create two characters for the price of one and make both feel more real and plausible to the reader, which will mean that the events of the story’s finale will matter more.

I put on the mask, crept along the back path, opened the back door all too easily and slipped into the house. When the little dogs appeared I put down some food with tranquilisers in.

This is the first we’re hearing of any dogs. This is exactly the kind of thing the Stranger should notice (and share with us) much earlier in the story. If we know ahead of time that there are dogs in the house and that they will be an obstacle it will create tension as we speculate how he’ll handle that. It would also (again) lead us to identify with him, in a way: We’d be analyzing the same problem he was, and in a way filling his role.

For all that, though, I wonder why we bother with this detail at all, since it really adds nothing. An obstacle is introduced and then done away with immediately, in a way that is neither difficult for the character not interesting and significant to the reader. If there were no dogs, would this story have lost anything? As a final problem, I find myself wondering why the dogs aren't already barking by the time he gets close enough to drug them.

Once the dogs were asleep I crept up the stairs to her bedroom, opened the door and stood over her. I placed my hand over her mouth and held the knife to her throat, I whispered a warning to keep quiet.

Not to nitpick, but how does he know she’ll be in bed? All he’s observed is that she neither goes out nor sees visitors after 9, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s clocking off by then. Again, if we had a more firm idea of how he’d been observing her and what he’d seen, we might know this already. It’s a minor point, but a relevant one.

Her eyes opened wide in fear but she didn't make a sound. I took my hand off her mouth and pulled off her covers; she was wearing a T shirt and panties. Using the knife I quickly opened up the t shirt and removed the panties her hands tried to cover her modesty but the threat of the knife soon put a stop to that. I used duct tape to tie her hands to the headboard, sat on the side of the bed and ran my hand over her, squeezing her tits and nipples, grabbing her cunt in my hand pressing the knife against her skin.

These bits here are probably the soundest writing in the whole thing. You still have the same problems: wordiness, poor syntax and structure, etc. But it’s more effective than what's come before because this is action, and when writing action the terseness that causes problems in the rest of the story becomes an asset. Notice that you spend almost as many words (106) describing this sequence of events that lasts probably two minutes at best as you did covering a span of events that took place over weeks and weeks previously (147).

I told her that I knew what she bought in the sex shop and how pleased I was that she had been preparing her arse for me. I played a game with the knife pressing the point into her tummy and just above her clit. She started to writhe which caused me to press harder and draw blood which started to run down her cunt. I licked it. I sucked at the wound, I smiled as I slurped , my tongue lapped up the blood and trailed along her lips.

So, really, this is the whole story right here, right? It doesn’t seem like you were much interested in writing about a stalker’s obsession, because we mostly glossed over that part. Maybe all you really wanted to write was a rape scene? And that’s fine. If that's the case, then next time just write the scene and say the hell with the rest. If you’d started the story the moment he puts the knife to her throat, would we really have missed anything important? Certainly nothing that couldn’t be communicated in a sentence or two.

If this part is what the story is all about, then make it all about this. The sense of being unfinished that people have noticed comes from the fact that you make feints at a larger story and then don’t follow through on them. If you have no interest in the rest of the material, then throw it out. On the other hand, if you really DO care about what's gone on before this moment, then we need to learn more about it. Either way would work better than what's here, but it's a question of what you really want to write and what you really want your story to be.

She jumped and yelped. I put the knife back to her throat and she immediately laid still and quiet. I thrust hard in and out . Then without warning switched to her arse... I started to push hard in when I heard the door bell.

Wait, what the hell? I thought she never had visitors this late? What’s going on down there at the front door? Unfortunately, we’ll never find out: The Stranger runs off before we discover what’s up, and his escape from the house is so brief as to amount to no content at all. If this anomalous late-night visit doesn’t provide any further action or any interesting obstacle for the character, then it seems most likely it serves only as an egress from the story: You didn’t want to write more and had to think of a quick and easy reason for him to leave. Unfortunately, it shows.

My advice in the future would be the same that I'd give to any writer: Write more, and read more. You’ve got to read and write constantly if you want to be a better writer. By reading, you’ll be exposed to more and different writing, and that will fine-tune your sense for natural-sounding prose. By writing, you’ll become more and more comfortable with your own work (it's like a muscle: It needs exercise and not just occasionally), and you’ll attract more and more critiques. Some of them will be useful, some of them will not, but all of them will serve you better than a vacuum. It is almost impossible not to eventually improve your style just by doing these two simple things for long enough. It’s also impossible to ever improve if you do neither.

Good luck in the future. It’s rough out there, but worth it.
 
I really appreciate that feedback it's exactly what I was looking for. I now intend to do a complete rewrite of the stranger and hopefully include all your recommendations. Once again, thank you.
 
Thank you everyone

I am pleased that so many of you have replied to my post and how consistent you all are. I am taking note and my next submission after the Satan series will hopefully be a better piece of work than anything I have done previously.
Just to clear up one point chapter 2 is showing on my submissions as pending but has a date and the address.
 
Agree with Lovecraft

LIts a little confusing and more than a little contradictory when it comes to non consent or rape fantasies.

They have a rule that at some point the "victim" should begin to enjoy the sex, therefore making it more into reluctance.

But the problem is they have a category called non consent, which by definition would be rape so people assume they can put the material here and I can't say I blame them.

I wish they would change the category name to "Reluctance," because the best stories in it (my opinion here) are really about people being forced past their inhibitions, and there's internal conflict over the arousal they experience and their own self-image.

So, the first problem with The Stranger is that it's straight-up rape. Then there are a bunch of writing problems centered around writing in scenes vs. summarizing actions, which I suppose is just another way of saying "Show, don't tell."

Since I first looked at the story, someone has posted anonymous feedback after the story that covers two problems that are evident after the first few paragraphs having to do with tense and characterization (there is none).

During the rapist's break-in, "When the little dogs appeared" he gave them tranquilizers. Unfortunately, there's no mention of the dogs before that. So, "When the little dogs appeared" prompts the reader to step out of the story and ask "What little dogs, and how many? Are they small dogs, or puppies? Is he going to run across a cat or iguana?"

Anyway, Mordikai did ask for feedback, so that's part of what I saw beyond the whole category discussion. An editor would be a big help.
 
Agree with Lovecraft

LIts a little confusing and more than a little contradictory when it comes to non consent or rape fantasies.

They have a rule that at some point the "victim" should begin to enjoy the sex, therefore making it more into reluctance.

But the problem is they have a category called non consent, which by definition would be rape so people assume they can put the material here and I can't say I blame them.

I wish they would change the category name to "Reluctance," because the best stories in it (my opinion here) are really about people being forced past their inhibitions, and there's internal conflict when the arousal they experience clashes with their self-image.

So, the first problem with The Stranger is that it's straight-up rape. Then there are a bunch of writing problems centered around writing in scenes vs. summarizing actions, which I suppose is just another way of saying "Show, don't tell."

Since I first looked at the story, someone has posted anonymous feedback after the story that covers two problems that are evident after the first few paragraphs having to do with tense and characterization (there is none).

During the rapist's break-in, "When the little dogs appeared" he gave them tranquilizers. Unfortunately, there's no mention of the dogs before that. So, "When the little dogs appeared" prompts the reader to step out of the story and ask "What little dogs, and how many? Are they small dogs, or puppies? Is he going to run across a cat or iguana?"

Okay, I'm willing to concede that not every reader will stop to ask those questions.

Anyway, Mordikai did ask for feedback, so that's part of what I saw beyond the whole category discussion. An editor would be a big help.
 
I drove to her address, parking close enough to see the house and garden, but far enough to avoid detection. A car pulled into the drive and the girl from the shop emerges. I am in luck!

For the next few weeks I followed her, getting to know her routine. She seemed to work irregularly, often spending all day and night at home alone.

An older man, her next door neighbour, was her most frequent visitor. Sometimes a woman, I later discovered was her sister, brought children over. Other visitors were infrequent. In time I found out the neighbour was her dad, but the most important detail I discovered was she rarely went out or had visitors after nine.

A week later at nine-thirty, parked a quarter of a mile from her house, watching her movements. When I was sure she was alone, I picked up my Jason Vorhees mask, checked my knife and lock picks, and headed to her back door.

I put on the mask, crept along the path, opened the back door and slipped into the house. When the little dogs appeared, I tossed them bits of tranquillized meat. Once the dogs were asleep, I crept to her bedroom, opened the door and stood over her for a long moment. I placed my hand over her mouth, holding the knife to her throat; whispered a warning to keep quiet. Her eyes widened in fear but she made no sound. I yanked off her covers. Beneath she wore only T-shirt and panties. Using my knife, I quickly slit the T-shirt and panties. Her hands moved to cover her nakedness, but the threat of the knife put a stop to that.

I duct taped her hands to the headboard, sat on her bed and ran my hands over her body, squeezing her tits and nipples, grabbing her cunt in my hand while pressing the knife against her skin.
 
So, the first problem with The Stranger is that it's straight-up rape.


I don't think that's a problem. I mean, yes, as people point out, it might run afoul of some site rule. Then again, it might not, and so far it hasn't. All this speculation about arcane standards probably doesn't help the writer that much. Right now the story stands and he wants to know if it's any good on its own merits.
 
Right now the story stands and he wants to know if it's any good on its own merits.

Technically, the OP is asking how to get more views, votes, and comments at Literotica, not whether the story is good on its own merits. These aren't the same things--at Literotica, in particular.
 
I'd like to note that the story in question passed and was then reported. Another testament to the "screening" process here.:rolleyes:

At this point the readers and authors have become the true 'editors' here.

I don't buy that. The chapter is posted now. From the timing of the chapter before it, chapter 2 should still have been in the submissions review window. Looks to me like that's exactly where it was all the time a question the OP didn't ask was being irrelevantly debated by those making assumptions.
 
If the OP may have a say

I am more than happy with ALL the comments on this thread. I understand that some people don't like or agree with my subject matter, but they have still constructively criticised. I appreciate the warnings about being reported or rejected and have realised that my stories seem to go through an extra level of approval. This shows as a dated uneditable pending with an address. My reason for mentioning stats was that I felt that there was too little comment made not scores or people scoring. although being told to get on with chapter two as my reader was wet pleased me.
Once again thank you all, now all I need to do is find a decent editor.
 
I am more than happy with ALL the comments on this thread. I understand that some people don't like or agree with my subject matter, but they have still constructively criticised. I appreciate the warnings about being reported or rejected and have realised that my stories seem to go through an extra level of approval. This shows as a dated uneditable pending with an address. My reason for mentioning stats was that I felt that there was too little comment made not scores or people scoring. although being told to get on with chapter two as my reader was wet pleased me.
Once again thank you all, now all I need to do is find a decent editor.

That pending with a date is nothing more than Laurel approving your story early. It's especially common with chapter stories where multiple chapters are put in the queue at once.

It doesn't have anything to do with the content.
 
Technically, the OP is asking how to get more views, votes, and comments at Literotica, not whether the story is good on its own merits. These aren't the same things--at Literotica, in particular.

Hmm, I suppose that is true. Still, the readers don't know what the content is until they read it--not in explicit terms, anyway. It shouldn't be any more or less popular than anything else in the Noncon category on those grounds. Anyway, if rape stories are what he wants to write, then he should. If he tries to write something that interests him less just because he thinks it will appeal to readers it'll only be more difficult for him.
 
Hmm, I suppose that is true. Still, the readers don't know what the content is until they read it--not in explicit terms, anyway. It shouldn't be any more or less popular than anything else in the Noncon category on those grounds. Anyway, if rape stories are what he wants to write, then he should. If he tries to write something that interests him less just because he thinks it will appeal to readers it'll only be more difficult for him.

Well, yes, but that is beyond any point I wanted to work with here. I started off doubting the OP premise. The views, votes, and comments pretty much were on the stat average.
 
That is not a normal wait for posting....a story has no link until it becomes live.

By the way, this isn't true. It is given a link as soon as it has a posting date, which can be while it's still pending (and obviously was the case with this chapter 2). I waited until I could verify that with one of my own pending stories. As soon as it was given a posting date (tomorrow) it also was given a link.
 
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