An Editor's Angst

CaveCat12401

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So I recently edited Chapter 2 of what I consider a cringe-worthy 2-3 star story from a new writer. Other than quotation marks, he did not use any punctuation in his dialogue blocks... no periods, commas, semi-colons... nuthin'! No exaggeration, I had to place close to 200 punctuation marks in this 3-4 page story. I also suggested numerous stylistic changes and some (many) dialogue improvements. No problem... I had the time and patience to hopefully help an inexperienced writer complete and post an acceptable story.

So he sends a revised Chapter 2 that addressed just a few of the changes I suggested. That's not a problem. He evidently has a style and approach that he doesn't want to change. But unfortunately, he revised the original Chapter 2 document, not the edited document that I returned to him. His revised chapter is still missing +/- 200 missing punctuation marks! I reviewed his new revised chapter, complimented the few changes he did make, but pointed out that I wasn't inclined to correct-- for a second time -- his numerous punctuation and grammatical errors.

I'm waiting for a response, but now I'm starting to feel guilty. Did I fail to go the extra mile for this guy? Should I have just gone ahead and spent the couple of hours needed to do another complete edit?

Interested to know how other editors would have handled this situation...
 
I've had this happen in the paying world. When I send them the first edit, I include the statement that what I've sent is now the master copy and it's the only one I want back. I also lock it in such a way that they can add comments but can't delete the tracking changes I've put in it (the tracking change doesn't delete the original either). If they send back a different version, I send it right back, telling them I'll only continue dealing with the master.

I don't do that with Lit. story edits, though. The author has the manuscript last and is the one who submits it, so I don't do any of the back and forth. I send them an edit and it's up to them what they do with it then. And I say I don't want to be credited as editor, because, since they had it last, I have no control over what they have submitted.
 
First off, no, you didn't do anything wrong. I have a general rule when someone sends me a story like this that I will make these basic changes one time, and then after that and if there are any future stories, I expect the author to have learned these basic things. There are websites and books that explain it all; I will not keep making the same edits.

Presuming you had your copy of the edited file, you might have been able to enter the new changes into that and send it back. But I would have asked the author to put the new changes into the file you'd sent and then go from there.

I am all for style and experimenting, but there is a difference between that and just being wrong. There are rules/guidelines on punctuation and grammar and they have come about for various reasons. I would think that a story with that amount of errors is not going to go over well with readers for the most part, and I'd mention that as well.

But don't be shy about protecting your time and effort. If you are editing for someone then you are taking time away from your own projects. If a story is going to require more time than you have to give it, or are willing to give it, you're well within your rights to say no. I've done it a few times.
 
editing

We all appear to be on the same page more or less- I will edit one page of the story completely- but when it has those simple repeating errors, I will send it back with the issues that are there and let them know that I'd be happy to look it over again, but THEY have to fix all those repeating basic errors throughout the story first. I will work with an author, but I will not write the story for them... Everyone makes a mistake or misses something here or there, but just not knowing the rules of basic grammar makes it difficult to write a story and is rather tough on an editor...

After all that is what they are attempting to do- therefore if you don't know or understand those rules, then perhaps you should study that before you send off a piece to be posted or edited.

Just my method and thought...
-M
 
Thanks, all, for your input. Some good suggestions on how to handle multiple revisions and multiple errors. I've told this particular author -- in fact, all that I have edited for -- that spelling, grammar and punctuation must be pristine or Lit will reject their submission. I know it's an empty threat, but I'm hoping the prospect of rejection might get their attention. Sometimes it does, sometimes not. Jury is still out on this latest project. And he says it's a 7-chapter story! Sigh....
 
I recently busted my hump editing a story. The original 36 page story used the word "and" over 300 times. I went through the trouble to edit this "manuscript" over the holidays, because I thought the author was a bit impatient. Now he says he rejects nearly all my changes. Well that is his prerogative as writer. Yes there are some style and other changes which are "opinion", but folks, the rules of good writing are there to make us better communicators. One final comment: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you ask for editing, don't be put off if your editor tells you that certain usage is "undeveloped" or "immature". That's what editors are for. If one is going to ask someone else to edit his/her work, one better be prepared to hear comments which may not be flattering.
 
Edit twice?

I would not consider editing something twice.

I don't care if an author does not like my suggestions on plot, character, or so on. I will discuss those as long as he likes.

But mechanics are mechanics and if they won't learn once, I am not going to do it twice.

If somebody is trying I will stick with them. But if they aren't making the effort why should I?
 
Agreed. Especially if it is a very long story, and there is a lot of work, I also like to see about editing the first few pages for basic punctuation, dialogue changes, etc. Then send back to them and ask if they understand my changes, and if they could try walking through and re-editing their entire doc before sending to me again.

I think it's important as a learning tool for the writer, as well. They can't just rely on an editor to be a crutch to craft their idea into a readable story - as an editor, I feel it's part of the job to help them grow and improve as a writer as well.
 
editing

Editing is a chore forsure and it sure gets tiring and annoying. The more editing needed the more difficult it gets. Don't feel guilty. Every little bit of help is appreciated, I'm sure.
 
What's fun is when the writer credits you in author notes at the beginning of a piece but doesn't change the most cringe-worthy parts of the story.
 
What's fun is when the writer credits you in author notes at the beginning of a piece but doesn't change the most cringe-worthy parts of the story.

Yep, I demand that I not be credited. The author had it last and can post anything he/she wants.
 
Jeez...! I've just received my "thank you for signing up as a volounteer editor" email, truly hoping I don't experience anything that frustating any time soon
 
Jeez...! I've just received my "thank you for signing up as a volounteer editor" email, truly hoping I don't experience anything that frustating any time soon
ginger: a little heads up. I like to ask for a small sample before I commit to more than about 3000 words. Some writers are absolutely atrocious, not that I am 100%, especially with my own work, but some are like swimming through peanut butter.(chunky)
 
ginger: a little heads up. I like to ask for a small sample before I commit to more than about 3000 words. Some writers are absolutely atrocious, not that I am 100%, especially with my own work, but some are like swimming through peanut butter.(chunky)

Then don't do it, whiner.
 
ginger: a little heads up. I like to ask for a small sample before I commit to more than about 3000 words. Some writers are absolutely atrocious, not that I am 100%, especially with my own work, but some are like swimming through peanut butter.(chunky)

That's why they ask for help. :rolleyes:
 
We have many authors and editors on Lit. that believe grammar, spelling, usage, punctuation, are second consideration and that to insist on proper grammar is to stifle creativity. I was recently told that I wanted to stifle authors creativity because I insisted that a writer should be solid in the fundamentals before reaching out for special effects, that using first person narrative does not give one license to be illiterate. Your characters can be illiterate, but not your narrator. (except in certain carefully planed circumstances) Yes, I said, let the creativity flow, but then go back and re-read, proofread, edit. I have run into many writers who think because they now have an editor, they do not have to proof or edit. I know I will get some flak for this statement, but I have seen so may manuscripts in which the author CLAIMS that all the usage errors are intentional, but I can tell that they are actually errors. Anyone else run into this?
 
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Agreed. Especially if it is a very long story, and there is a lot of work, I also like to see about editing the first few pages for basic punctuation, dialogue changes, etc. Then send back to them and ask if they understand my changes, and if they could try walking through and re-editing their entire doc before sending to me again.

I think it's important as a learning tool for the writer, as well. They can't just rely on an editor to be a crutch to craft their idea into a readable story - as an editor, I feel it's part of the job to help them grow and improve as a writer as well.

I'd agree with this.

As a writer, when I've received edited copy, I've always gone through it to identify what my recurring faults are, and summarised them in a separate document. A lot on the list I was unsure about anyway, so it helps cement the 'correct' way in my mind.


I've been thinking about sticking my name down here, but I'm not really sure if I would be good enough. I need to educate myself a bit first.
 
Mixed bag

I have found editing to be a mixed bag. Some pieces are so bad I wonder why they got written. Others are so good that editing essentially becomes a long philosophical discussion of character motivations.

As an editor I try to help where I can. If someone sends me a story full of errors in using quotations, let's tackle that first. Then their reaction to what I did will determine where we go next. If they say, "Hey, thanks," and post it and get a 3.1 rating, then that is their way of doing it.

If they say, "What else can I do to make it better?" then the relationship goes on. I love nothing more than seeing a writer I have edited get a 4.8 rating!
 
IRL How many people accept advice or counsel or hints? Few & None?

Editing is a fools errand.
 
There are different editing circumstances. Here at Literotica, with the author having the file last before the story is submitted, the editing can tend toward the futile, yes--in some circumstances. It's cynical and wrongheaded to assume that all Lit. authors ignore all editorial suggestions.

In the mainstream, there is certain style that is going to be imposed by an editor whether the author likes it or not--if the author wants the work to be published. And the publisher has the file last. So, in that publishing world, editing isn't futile at all.
 
I just went through one that I feel guilty about ending.

So the first couple of chapters needed a little spit and polish. Word usage, character development, as well as 'set and setting' or environmental adjustments. By the fifth chapter though, I had fallen in love with the story. At 6 the author was pushing 200 pages so far and I was correcting one or two things every four to five pages.

I honestly had no idea why the author even needed me. They felt that their passion for it (even though it had already been completed) was gone. And was wondering why it was so poorly received. It isn't though. All the chapters are posted here and are between 4.30-4.75.

Originally I was told the story was BDSM. Eh... Not my thing but I have read and enjoyed all of Etaski's work and a few others that get into the darker side of sex. So I figured I could handle it. It became a problem.

What are you supposed to do when you know someone has the potential for a great book, and they ask you what you would change? And, the answer turns out to be everything that drives the main characters because otherwise you cannot force yourself to continue reading about people that need professional help that may include being committed?
 
Robertreams, I just got into trouble!
One of the stories I'm editing at the moment is proving to be particularly tricky... because of the author. He contacted me to help out with his dialogue, but after a week of emailing me hints and prompts I got frustrated of his fumbling around and asked him for his full draught to start editing: "Please send me your story so that I may understand your writing style and offer more focused help, corrections and integrations. An editor must always be invisible: without any of your work that's difficult for me."
He says he understands, then after a few days he writes "For my stories to really work, I need to be that Greek solider and I need you to be that Amazon. As I write the story, I need you to provide the dialogue of the Amazon. But I need you to be that Amazon-what are you thinking as you chase me. I want to get horny when I read your comments. I want you to get horny as you read my stories."

I'm no prude (otherwise I wouldn't even BE here), but I really don't feel comfortable with this turn of events... I'm here as an editor, not anything else. Any advice on how to handle the situation?
 
S
What are you supposed to do when you know someone has the potential for a great book, and they ask you what you would change? And, the answer turns out to be everything that drives the main characters because otherwise you cannot force yourself to continue reading about people that need professional help that may include being committed?

Been there. Recently. In the mainstream. It had become a self-pity party. I bowed out. The one thing I wouldn't do, other than ask questions that should lead the author in that direction if they could perceive that approach, is to try to massively redirect the theme/message of someone else's work.
 
Robertreams, I just got into trouble!
One of the stories I'm editing at the moment is proving to be particularly tricky... because of the author. He contacted me to help out with his dialogue, but after a week of emailing me hints and prompts I got frustrated of his fumbling around and asked him for his full draught to start editing: "Please send me your story so that I may understand your writing style and offer more focused help, corrections and integrations. An editor must always be invisible: without any of your work that's difficult for me."
He says he understands, then after a few days he writes "For my stories to really work, I need to be that Greek solider and I need you to be that Amazon. As I write the story, I need you to provide the dialogue of the Amazon. But I need you to be that Amazon-what are you thinking as you chase me. I want to get horny when I read your comments. I want you to get horny as you read my stories."

I'm no prude (otherwise I wouldn't even BE here), but I really don't feel comfortable with this turn of events... I'm here as an editor, not anything else. Any advice on how to handle the situation?

Sounds like the author wants you to be the author. I wouldn't go there myself. Editing isn't coauthoring.

Of course if what you want to do is coauthor this one, go right ahead. (I do such bantering stories with a coauthor and enjoy it). But it's not an editorial function.
 
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