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Shame and Humiliation

I wrote a humorours chapter for my book about a man dressed like a priest wildly fucking a pretend nun across an altar. It worked very well. And then he begged to be whipped, of course.
 
AllardChardon said:
I wrote a humorours chapter for my book about a man dressed like a priest wildly fucking a pretend nun across an altar. It worked very well. And then he begged to be whipped, of course.
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Funny. I have a medieval story where a girl seduces a priest and whips him too. Priests and whips: they just go together. :D
 
dr_mabeuse said:
In that regard I'm surprised there's not more porn that exploits religious shame. Why not more nun/priest fucking stories? Is it because the religious taboos have lost their potency while incest taboos haven't?
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I wrote a teen confessing in a confessional to a masturbating priest... and I find nun-porn incredibly hot. :eek:
 
Selena_Kitt said:
I wrote a teen confessing in a confessional to a masturbating priest... and I find nun-porn incredibly hot. :eek:
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Not me, it doesn't mean a thing to me. All this ridiculous I-say-I-shouldn't-do-this-but-I-don't-have-any-real-reason-why-not-so-im-going-to-anyway-while-we-wallow-in-transcendental-guilt. Big whoop.
Your mileage may vary, of course!
 
Stella_Omega said:
Not me, it doesn't mean a thing to me. All this ridiculous I-say-I-shouldn't-do-this-but-I-don't-have-any-real-reason-why-not-so-im-going-to-anyway-while-we-wallow-in-transcendental-guilt. Big whoop.
Your mileage may vary, of course!
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That's just cuz you never got nun! :D
 
As a writer, I work out the irritations of life in my work.

I married a full blooded Italian Catholic, complete with self-loathing guilt. I was born into a bohemian lifestyle without guilt. In comparison, I was able to see how the effect of guilt on a person is really nothing to laugh at.

But humor is what I used to exorcize "the guilt effect" from my life. Being around a person who is guilty all the time for basically nothing is not enjoyable for anyone. And I am sure it contributed to my ex-husband getting cancer twice. Again, not funny. But, you either laugh or cry. I chose laughter.

We poke fun at what we cannot change, hoping humor will shed light.
 
AllardChardon said:
As a writer, I work out the irritations of life in my work.

I married a full blooded Italian Catholic, complete with self-loathing guilt. I was born into a bohemian lifestyle without guilt. In comparison, I was able to see how the effect of guilt on a person is really nothing to laugh at.

But humor is what I used to exorcize "the guilt effect" from my life. Being around a person who is guilty all the time for basically nothing is not enjoyable for anyone. And I am sure it contributed to my ex-husband getting cancer twice. Again, not funny. But, you either laugh or cry. I chose laughter.

We poke fun at what we cannot change, hoping humor will shed light.
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I had a boyfriend like this-- such a wonderful, loving man, and gay. I was his last gasp at being straight, although our relationship was hardly the normal straight one...:eek: And when he finally decided to be gay after all, he completely cut me out of his life. The whole time, I watched his family use Catholicism as a weapon against each other. It wasn't even a dysfunctional family, either-- very close and loving. But that religion sure makes a good weapon-- like a flamethrower!
 
I find the different religions outlook and "attempted" use of shame to be interesting. The two that we are personally familiar with are Catholic and Baptist.

Amy was raised Catholic <insert disgusted gasp here> IHO, Catholic shame is, as Allard opined, based upon guilt for what you have personally done (i.e., You suck and you are fucked because it's all your fault and you are shit out of luck unless we say different).

I was raised Baptist <insert disappointed, knowing nods here> IMO, Baptist shame is based more what you are REGARDLESS of how good of a person you might be (i.e., You suck and you were fucked even before you were born so you are just shit out of luck. Period! Even we can't do anything for you!)

(should answer ALL of you that spend your entire day windering why I'm not pro-religion) :rolleyes:
 
AllardChardon said:
Yes, those Catholics are so easy to bash, sexually that is.
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No, this is exactly it. It's not the bashing. It's the internal struggle with guilt and shame that's hot. Incredibly hot. The inner conflict. That's what's hot about incest, about degradation, about obsessive passion, about D/s. It's always about the individual's struggle with themselves: their desires versus their conscience. That's the basis of all erotic heat right there.

Shame is the source of all erotic heat.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
No, this is exactly it. It's not the bashing. It's the internal struggle with guilt and shame that's hot. Incredibly hot. The inner conflict. That's what's hot about incest, about degradation, about obsessive passion, about D/s. It's always about the individual's struggle with themselves: their desires versus their conscience. That's the basis of all erotic heat right there.

Shame is the source of all erotic heat.
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All of your erotic heat, anyway.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Shame is the source of all erotic heat.
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I think that it can be a source without being the source. It could very well be the wellspring of all eros for some people, but Stella and Manque seem to offer clear indications that this is not so for all people.
 
BlackShanglan said:
I think that it can be a source without being the source. It could very well be the wellspring of all eros for some people, but Stella and Manque seem to offer clear indications that this is not so for all people.
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Zoot is just adorable when he gets excited! :cattail:

And his writing does resonate for a lot of women. Of course those women tell him so, and those of us who aren't ringing like gongs don't care to rain on the parade. But this isn't yahoo groups, and Doc isn't the boss of me. Or something childish like that, since I have my own monomanias, lord knows!
 
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For the most part, I agree with Doc. It is the struggle against oneself, one's desires, which often betray our intelligence on the way, that drives a good story.

In erotica as well as other gneres, something has to be overcome and it is usually morals. This allows the characters to find their inner beast. We, the reader, are allowed to get off vicariously, as we all need and want our animals selves to emerge, completely, at times.

Like great English comedy, it is the perfectly sane orderly man or woman about town caught in some ridiculous situation, whether silly or sexy, that makes us love the character and feel sympathy. Mr. Bean Takes A Holiday comes to mind. Now, all we need is a Mr. Bean Goes to a Massage Parlor.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Zoot is just adorable when he gets excited! :cattail:

And his writing does resonate for a lot of women. Of course those women tell him so, and those of us who aren't ringing like gongs don't care to rain on the parade. But this isn't yahoo groups, and Doc isn't the boss of me. Or something childish like that, since I have my own monomanias, lord knows!
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I know. I just go apeshit.

But let's look at this for a minute, Stella. I don't think I'm revealing any secrets if I say that you've got a thing about women and mud. What's the thrill there? Pure esthetics? There isn't a sense of pushing someone past a transgressive barrier? There isn't, in all sex, a hint of violation and compromised autonomy that contains a hint of shame?
 
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dr_mabeuse said:
Well, let's look at it, Stella. I don;t think I'm revealing any secrets if I say that you've got a thing about women and mud. What's the thrill here? Pure esthetics?
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Squeamishness is not the same thing as shame. Matter of fact, transgressivness need not be internalised either. It's certainly transgressive-- but only in regards to germs and other people seeing you fuck in your backyard. And I have to say, the two reactions women give me are; "How do we keep our pussies clean?" and my GF's roommate who said; "I'm not coming to bail you guys out of jail for indecent exposure!"

Both reactions, you see, are practical and not moral. So there's a certain amount of risk-taking. But I don't think I'm risking my soul or my reputation. :rolleyes:

What I love are; the smell of clean earth after a rain, the textures of wet grass and silky mud (and the occasional pebble), the contrast of heat of her body against mine, and the cool drizzle or cold rain on the rest of our bodies. I like the way her face looks with mud scraped away, and the surprised sense of freedom my lovers have expressed once they experience this.

But I've never heard a woman say; "I'm so ashamed of getting muddy!"

ETA: Compromised autonomy? Sure. that, too, need not be a matter of "shame".
 
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The way you describe it, Stella, almost makes it sound the opposite: a gleeful revelling in shamelessness. Hurrah, we're muddy and naked and having sex in the back yard, and it's FUN!

I can see the appeal.
 
I do agree with Doc that I get a kick in pushing my partners past that barrier. I don't think shame is the only barrier out there.


Thinking back, I would say that if someone expressed a sense of shame to me-- I'd be out the door. I am not willing to accept responsibility for their morals. In my experience, what you get is ALL the blame, and you see no beneficial change for the person.
 
BlackShanglan said:
The way you describe it, Stella, almost makes it sound the opposite: a gleeful revelling in shamelessness. Hurrah, we're muddy and naked and having sex in the back yard, and it's FUN!

I can see the appeal.
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She does have the advantage of a very large back yard. I'm waiting for the trees along one side of ours to grow high enough to block the neighbors' windows. Not that they should have anything to complain about, given the amount of giggling I've heard coming over the fence from their hot tub. Textures, scents, sensations . . . where in Hell is the shame in that?

Guilt, BAH!
 
Stella_Omega said:
Thinking back, I would say that if someone expressed a sense of shame to me-- I'd be out the door. I am not willing to accept responsibility for their morals. In my experience, what you get is ALL the blame, and you see no beneficial change for the person.
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That is a very good point. I'd suggest that some people have managed to come to a better method of coping, but yes, I've seen it and it's ugly, the aftermath of the classic "get drunk and do what I'm ashamed to sober" act.

It doesn't necessarily have to work that way, however. Sometimes revealing shame to a partner is only a part of the ultimate goal. Some seek a partner to punish the shame; others seek one to absolve it or accept it. Some, of course, seek both. In its way it can be like other boundary games: it can evoke a deeper sense of trust and connection when done with that goal in mind.
 
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