A strange conversation about an Idea

lovecraft68 said:

Fixed that for you.

Nothing you're coming up with is insider information its basic information and common sense.

But the conversation isn't about the author being screwed(which they are) its what the legality stands on the gray area of digital product and beyond that who is ever going to enforce it and how.

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I don't know how many, or even IF, any EU organisations are involved with DRM, but from what I read of Wiki, it's a right mess, and an unholy one at that.

2 cents, tho I should know better

Lots of good points have been made on many sides.

Regarding libraries, they pay more for a book or journal subscription than a reader walking into a bookstore would. In fact, many university libraries have a hard time because of the higher costs. Some of that extra cost must go to the publisher, and honestly I have no idea if an ever gets back to the author. I know for textbooks authors are paid very little, and authors pay to have their research published ( irrelevant for this discussion, just pointing out other models of publication).

Presumably, the library does give the author a wider readership and when those readers see something from someone they like in a bookstore (E or brick) they may splurge.

Regarding lost royalties on reselling used books - I see Pilot's point, but the author received royalties on the original copy sold. It is, however, a big gray area, but again, provides opportunity for a larger readership ultimately.

One reason I'm not as fond of e-books is that I can't share them easily with my partner like we used to do.

PILOTS right! Make every moron send money to Detroit to the drug addict who built his used Gremlin. Send Good Housekeeping money for reading their old magazine at the dentists office. And when you wipe your ass send Sears some money for the catalog.

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

PILOTS right! Make every moron send money to Detroit to the drug addict who built his used Gremlin. Send Good Housekeeping money for reading their old magazine at the dentists office. And when you wipe your ass send Sears some money for the catalog.

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Uggghhhh, really?

Mara12 said:

Uggghhhh, really?

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Give everyone residuals and royalties.

Handley_Page said:

I don't know how many, or even IF, any EU organisations are involved with DRM, but from what I read of Wiki, it's a right mess, and an unholy one at that.

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MY wife just had to go to court because when she changed jobs her former employers wanted her e-mail address because they had asked her to set up their google calenders and other things though it. They told her it was now theirs and kept going into it and locking her out of it.

She said it was hers and told them to set things up under them. They were withholding her last check as well as trying to black ball her with her new employer saying she had stolen from them. So she had to go to court over who retained the rights to the intellectual property.

The judge found in her favor saying the employers should have never asked an employee to do something under a personal account(The real issues was my wife and them used to be best friends a mistake on both their parts to work together honestly). My wife had to give over the password to them for the three days the judge gave them to transfer everything over.

So even e-mails are gray areas, let alone countless other internet related things.

DRM is really almost impossible to enforce. And let's face it, in the US you can be robbed blind on something you have copyrighted and still lose out because who has the money to get it into court and the court is back logged and....

Really yet another way the wealthy control the little guy in this fantastic Goverment we have going on here. They can rob from you and you can't fight it.

Don't bring a pool-noodle to a gun fight.

PennLady said:

That's true (I didn't know that about SW). And if that's the case and authors are concerned, they shouldn't sell at SW until SW gets rid of that option.

I was talking more specifically about Kindle books, since that's what I have most experience with.

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For what it's worth, one of the reasons SW makes books available as PDFs is that a lot of non-piratey readers dislike DRM and won't buy DRM'ed books. (DRM = Digital Rights Management: software protection against copying.)

DRM often comes locked into a specific platform: if you buy Kindle e-books from Amazon, they'll only play on a Kindle. So if you you've bought several hundred dollars worth of Kindle e-books, it's going to be painful switching platforms if you decide the new Nook looks shinier.

In the end, if people really want to copy it they're going to find a way. If a human can read it, a machine can read it, and what a machine can read a machine can copy. And most of the people who'd pirate it probably wouldn't have paid for it anyway.

lovecraft68 said:

MY wife just had to go to court because when she changed jobs her former employers wanted her e-mail address because they had asked her to set up their google calenders and other things though it. They told her it was now theirs and kept going into it and locking her out of it.

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Ugh. Yeah, gotta be REAL careful about mixing work and personal stuff. I know of some companies that make a big deal about letting employees use their own iPads etc for work; some got really surprised when they found out that on termination the employer gets to wipe your entire drive.

Bramblethorn said:

Ugh. Yeah, gotta be REAL careful about mixing work and personal stuff. I know of some companies that make a big deal about letting employees use their own iPads etc for work; some got really surprised when they found out that on termination the employer gets to wipe your entire drive.

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Listen, Boss. You want me to use an iPad for your work?
You buy me one for just that task. Otherwise, it gets done my way.

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

PILOTS right! Make every moron send money to Detroit to the drug addict who built his used Gremlin. Send Good Housekeeping money for reading their old magazine at the dentists office. And when you wipe your ass send Sears some money for the catalog.

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You sentences one and three make no sense whatsoever (which you apparently don't see as a requirement).

Re sentence two, magazines pay flat fees, on a work-for-hire basis, no royalties. You really should try to know something about what you ridicule, or the only one being ridiculed is you.

PennLady said:

However if an author or musician or whatever is going to offer something for free, I don't think you can slam people for taking advantage of it.

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Which I covered in post #17. There's really no use discussing it with you if you are going to argue against something I explicitly excepted.

Mara12 said:

Regarding lost royalties on reselling used books - I see Pilot's point, but the author received royalties on the original copy sold. It is, however, a big gray area, but again, provides opportunity for a larger readership ultimately.

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Yes, first copy sold. Every other one is a lost opportunity cost and someone who has paid nothing for the creative input on that piece of art. From the author's perspective wouldn't a word for these people be parasite or freeloader or thief?

I haven't said there isn't a balance to be had. I've said that here on the Author's Hangout almost no one seems capable of seeing the author's perspective of such things.

sr71plt said:

Which I covered in post #17. There's really no use discussing it with you if you are going to argue against something I explicitly excepted.

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I'm not arguing against it. I misread your sentence, it appears. So, sorry.

Handley_Page said:

Listen, Boss. You want me to use an iPad for your work?
You buy me one for just that task. Otherwise, it gets done my way.

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Yeah, it's a great way for the business to save on IT costs while pretending to do the employees a favour by letting them BYO device. See also: "work from home".

Bramblethorn said:

For what it's worth, one of the reasons SW makes books available as PDFs is that a lot of non-piratey readers dislike DRM and won't buy DRM'ed books. (DRM = Digital Rights Management: software protection against copying.)

DRM often comes locked into a specific platform: if you buy Kindle e-books from Amazon, they'll only play on a Kindle. So if you you've bought several hundred dollars worth of Kindle e-books, it's going to be painful switching platforms if you decide the new Nook looks shinier.

In the end, if people really want to copy it they're going to find a way. If a human can read it, a machine can read it, and what a machine can read a machine can copy. And most of the people who'd pirate it probably wouldn't have paid for it anyway.

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Within a week of the first DRM implementation, DRM removal software was being circulated on the net. Nobody who has paid hundreds of dollars for things really believes that they should not actually own that thing and the right to dispose it as they wish.
Especially with Kindle- Amazon has a nasty habit of removing things from people's kindles without recompense.