Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Furthermore;
I agree fervently. Read more;
http://www.autostraddle.com/lesbian-obesity-study-misses-the-point-we-dont-care-if-were-fat-253569/
Study shows that Lesbians don't care if they are fat
- Thread starter Stella_Omega
- Start date
http://www.autostraddle.com/lesbian-obesity-study-misses-the-point-we-dont-care-if-were-fat-253569/
none2_none2
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Posts
- 1,086
weight does matter
Nobody male or female should base their life around being a certain weight to please others. That being said, the author is nuts.
I'm not basing this on random thoughts, but personal experience. I am overweight now, and it is affecting my health. I as of July/August I am officially diabetic. So it is rather silly to say things like watching your blood glucose level is more important than weight. Doesn't she know that mass affects how much insulin you make? Sure some people can be skinny and be diabetic although it is more attributed to obesity now-a-days.
I also think it is pure BS her conclusion that more health problems are due to inactivity. I had been running and exercising 6 am and 6 pm M-Th and 7:30 am Sat with an exercise group for a few months before I went from being pre-diabetic to diabetic. I also did weight lifting. I also almost always take stairs when presented with an elevator.
"The bottom line is that being active and maintaining good physiological measures of health, like fasting blood glucose, blood pressure, and blood lipid profiles, are considerably more important to one’s health than making sure your weight remains proportional the square of your height."
Duh... How does she think you you get these systems within the norm? Just pop pills or go for a jog? If you have diabetes, high blood pressure, high LDL/VLDL cholesterol or triglyceride levels, you may need to take pills, but the amount of medications you may have to take might be reducible if you loose weight.
The fact is that weight is affected by intake and outtake, and as you get older exercise doesn't seem to burn off calories as it does when you are young. I also don't eat junk food. My problem simply is that I eat a lot. Over the years the weight kept going up while my portions did not go down. Luckily, so far I only need to take pills. That being said when I test my blood the thing that has made the most difference is eating less -- not the exercise...
I'm sure everybody can find examples of an overweight person with no health problems, and someone skinny person with health problems, but the bottom line is our bodies are organic machines. The bigger the machine, the more the systems have to operate to make sure the whole machine is working well. For plenty of us, adding to the weight of the organic machine taxes the processes needed to keep that machine operating smoothly. Imagine you have a truck. Do you think the truck will have more stress on its systems if it is empty, or if it is pulling an extra load all of the time?
If you are changing yourself to please others, you'll never please all of the people all of the time. However, to deny the affects of weight on the body's systems is a gross disservice to her readership. This is NOT a political cause, but a health issue.
Loosing weight is so difficult. Keeping it off is even more difficult. It is bad enough that people view you as lazy being over weight when you know you need to loose, without some hack saying don't worry about your weight at all. You bet I worry about my weight. My dad died from complications to diabetes for the same problem.
I seriously doubt the author is a scientist as her bio would make you believe. She simply has a political ax to grind.
Nobody male or female should base their life around being a certain weight to please others. That being said, the author is nuts.
I'm not basing this on random thoughts, but personal experience. I am overweight now, and it is affecting my health. I as of July/August I am officially diabetic. So it is rather silly to say things like watching your blood glucose level is more important than weight. Doesn't she know that mass affects how much insulin you make? Sure some people can be skinny and be diabetic although it is more attributed to obesity now-a-days.
I also think it is pure BS her conclusion that more health problems are due to inactivity. I had been running and exercising 6 am and 6 pm M-Th and 7:30 am Sat with an exercise group for a few months before I went from being pre-diabetic to diabetic. I also did weight lifting. I also almost always take stairs when presented with an elevator.
"The bottom line is that being active and maintaining good physiological measures of health, like fasting blood glucose, blood pressure, and blood lipid profiles, are considerably more important to one’s health than making sure your weight remains proportional the square of your height."
Duh... How does she think you you get these systems within the norm? Just pop pills or go for a jog? If you have diabetes, high blood pressure, high LDL/VLDL cholesterol or triglyceride levels, you may need to take pills, but the amount of medications you may have to take might be reducible if you loose weight.
The fact is that weight is affected by intake and outtake, and as you get older exercise doesn't seem to burn off calories as it does when you are young. I also don't eat junk food. My problem simply is that I eat a lot. Over the years the weight kept going up while my portions did not go down. Luckily, so far I only need to take pills. That being said when I test my blood the thing that has made the most difference is eating less -- not the exercise...
I'm sure everybody can find examples of an overweight person with no health problems, and someone skinny person with health problems, but the bottom line is our bodies are organic machines. The bigger the machine, the more the systems have to operate to make sure the whole machine is working well. For plenty of us, adding to the weight of the organic machine taxes the processes needed to keep that machine operating smoothly. Imagine you have a truck. Do you think the truck will have more stress on its systems if it is empty, or if it is pulling an extra load all of the time?
If you are changing yourself to please others, you'll never please all of the people all of the time. However, to deny the affects of weight on the body's systems is a gross disservice to her readership. This is NOT a political cause, but a health issue.
Loosing weight is so difficult. Keeping it off is even more difficult. It is bad enough that people view you as lazy being over weight when you know you need to loose, without some hack saying don't worry about your weight at all. You bet I worry about my weight. My dad died from complications to diabetes for the same problem.
I seriously doubt the author is a scientist as her bio would make you believe. She simply has a political ax to grind.
Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 16,739
Be careful of post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because A and B happen together doesn't mean that A caused B.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110823165448.htm
"We now have evidence that physical activity is an important part of the daily maintenance of glucose levels," Thyfault said. "Even in the short term, reducing daily activity and ceasing regular exercise causes acute changes in the body associated with diabetes that can occur before weight gain and the development of obesity."
Note the timing. Yes, obese people often have diabetes. But the fact that the diabetic effects start showing up BEFORE the weight gain indicates that it's not as simple as "obesity causes diabetes"; at least some of it seems to be "inactivity causes diabetes and also causes weight gain".
I don't have cites handy, but if I recall correctly, some recent research has indicated that it's not just about the total amount of exercise you get in a day, but about long periods of inactivity - if somebody sits several hours at a computer without a good break, working out hard at the beginning and end of the day isn't going to make up for that.
The point is that "weight" is a very poor way to measure health risks. BMI doesn't distinguish between fifty pounds of fat and fifty pounds of muscle.
[quote[The fact is that weight is affected by intake and outtake,[/quote]
Surprisingly enough, a lot less than most people would think. A lot of people talk about weight as if it was some sort of bank balance: if you're taking in more calories in food than you burn on exercise, you gain weight, and if you take in less then you gain weight.
But a lot of that energy budget is actually resting metabolism, and when you drop calorie intake the body reduces resting metabolism to match. Calorie-restriction dieting can actually INCREASE both weight and percentage of body fat: basically, your body's reaction is "oh no, we're being starved, better lay down as much fat as we can just in case things get even worse".
A large meta-study found that dieting for weight loss is actually worse than nothing: people who diet will lose weight in the short term, but the great majority regain all of it and more as the body reacts to that "starvation".
(This is not a symmetric relationship, BTW - overeating can indeed push weight up, but undereating is not an effective way to bring it down again.)
This doesn't mean that what you eat is unimportant, but it's more about the composition than how much, and focussing directly on "weight" can be counterproductive.
The human body isn't a truck. If you took a truck to the mechanic and complained that it was wearing out and breaking down, you wouldn't expect them to tell you "just drive it more!" but that's exactly what we do with exercise.
Yes, being overweight does increase physical stresses that cause problems in the circulatory system, joints, etc etc. But the mechanisms behind things like diabetes are complex, with feedback loops and balancing mechanisms that we don't full understand. While weight is involved in that system, it's still not clear exactly how the relationship works.
And part of the problem of the focus on weight is that people miss the good news: there are things that reduce diabetes risks (and others) even if they're NOT measurable in pounds lost.
none2_none2
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Posts
- 1,086
more
In my case my health problems did correlate with weight gain. Obviously genetics plays a role although other than my dad, there wasn't a family history of diabetes. I thought that perhaps others might have had it, but it was mis-diagnosed. However a friend who reads up on health topics said that though diabetes was a well understood disease for a very long time. Ancient civilizations were able to diagnose it as "sweat urine disease". I deal with high LDL/VLDL cholesterol, high blood pressure, now diabetes, and sleep apnea. Note that weight gain is also one of the major contributing factors to sleep apnea. Likewise, types of fat tend to be divided by subcutaneous vs visceral. the former tends to be that rolling fat just under the surface of the skin whereas the later tends to be more the hardened fat that raps around the abdominal organs. Visceral fat is known to increase insulin resistance. Not only does it have a larger relationship to diabetes but also to cholesterol and high blood pressure. My fat is primarily visceral fat.
As to exercise most of us cannot help what times of day we can exercise. Yes I have a sedentary job, but that is why I was exercising quite a bit. The hour in the morning and evening involved both exercise as well as long runs. The Saturday morning was not so much exercise as it was going straight to a long run. I also remember a study that indicated that to study groups were isolated for a few weeks without exercise for a few weeks, some gained weight, others did not. The only noticeable difference they could detect is that those that didn't gain tended to be frigidity as opposed to those that did gain. I have at time tried to fidget, but when I do I'm consciously trying to do so -- it is not my nature.
I'm not particularly fond of BMI for measuring weight; though one has to realize that few have access to hydrostatic underwater weighing which separates out fat weight from muscle weight. I had one years ago when I was young, skinny, and healthy. The pinch test is also good at checking subcutaneous fat, but not really for visceral fat.
Bottom line is that for many excess weight in the form of fat is (or will be if maintained for a long period of time) a health problem. I use to be able to deal with it via exercise when my metabolism was higher. I'm also aware that as some loose the body gets resistant to giving it up because your body gets into starvation mode where it slows down even further to conserve "fuel".
Note that there have been some studies that indicate that grapefruit helps to speed up body metabolism and even reduce insulin resistance. Unfortunately, most statins (which many cholestrol medications are) mean you should avoid consuming grapefruit. I may talk to my doctor if there is an affordable statin that does work with grapefruit. If grapefruit truly helps with weight reduction and insulin resistance, it may be worth switching.
.
In my case my health problems did correlate with weight gain. Obviously genetics plays a role although other than my dad, there wasn't a family history of diabetes. I thought that perhaps others might have had it, but it was mis-diagnosed. However a friend who reads up on health topics said that though diabetes was a well understood disease for a very long time. Ancient civilizations were able to diagnose it as "sweat urine disease". I deal with high LDL/VLDL cholesterol, high blood pressure, now diabetes, and sleep apnea. Note that weight gain is also one of the major contributing factors to sleep apnea. Likewise, types of fat tend to be divided by subcutaneous vs visceral. the former tends to be that rolling fat just under the surface of the skin whereas the later tends to be more the hardened fat that raps around the abdominal organs. Visceral fat is known to increase insulin resistance. Not only does it have a larger relationship to diabetes but also to cholesterol and high blood pressure. My fat is primarily visceral fat.
As to exercise most of us cannot help what times of day we can exercise. Yes I have a sedentary job, but that is why I was exercising quite a bit. The hour in the morning and evening involved both exercise as well as long runs. The Saturday morning was not so much exercise as it was going straight to a long run. I also remember a study that indicated that to study groups were isolated for a few weeks without exercise for a few weeks, some gained weight, others did not. The only noticeable difference they could detect is that those that didn't gain tended to be frigidity as opposed to those that did gain. I have at time tried to fidget, but when I do I'm consciously trying to do so -- it is not my nature.
I'm not particularly fond of BMI for measuring weight; though one has to realize that few have access to hydrostatic underwater weighing which separates out fat weight from muscle weight. I had one years ago when I was young, skinny, and healthy. The pinch test is also good at checking subcutaneous fat, but not really for visceral fat.
Bottom line is that for many excess weight in the form of fat is (or will be if maintained for a long period of time) a health problem. I use to be able to deal with it via exercise when my metabolism was higher. I'm also aware that as some loose the body gets resistant to giving it up because your body gets into starvation mode where it slows down even further to conserve "fuel".
Note that there have been some studies that indicate that grapefruit helps to speed up body metabolism and even reduce insulin resistance. Unfortunately, most statins (which many cholestrol medications are) mean you should avoid consuming grapefruit. I may talk to my doctor if there is an affordable statin that does work with grapefruit. If grapefruit truly helps with weight reduction and insulin resistance, it may be worth switching.
.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
The article has two main points; Neither of those disagree that morbid obesity is dangerous and gets more so as we grow older.
One point is that we have focused on shaming fat.
Period.
ALL FAT IS EEEEVULLLL.
All people who are not lean and lanky are lazyass slobs who are morally suspect and also ugly. Women who are dependent on male approval are far more susceptable to being shamed-- both by the male gaze and by each other-- than lesbians are.
The other point of the article is that BMI is absolutely useless as areliable indicator of anything. it's a 200 year old hack, formulated in the days of Victorian belief that everything can, and should, be boxed into categories (which should all be the same wieght) and outlined in a firm, authoritative hand.
One point is that we have focused on shaming fat.
Period.
ALL FAT IS EEEEVULLLL.
All people who are not lean and lanky are lazyass slobs who are morally suspect and also ugly. Women who are dependent on male approval are far more susceptable to being shamed-- both by the male gaze and by each other-- than lesbians are.
The other point of the article is that BMI is absolutely useless as areliable indicator of anything. it's a 200 year old hack, formulated in the days of Victorian belief that everything can, and should, be boxed into categories (which should all be the same wieght) and outlined in a firm, authoritative hand.
Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 16,739
It's been known for a long time, but I'm not sure I'd agree with "well understood"; medical researchers are still trying to thrash out exactly what the mechanism is.
Yup. "Diabetes mellitus" is, literally, "excessive discharge of sweet-tasting urine", named back in the day when doctors really earned their keep.
Yep. I don't think the article is saying "there is no relationship between weight and health problems"; it's just that weight is a very poor index of health and there are better alternatives. Blood cholesterol measurement and blood-pressure readings will give more direct, more reliable measurements of your health than a BMI.
I'm not talking about a workout in the middle of the day. Just breaking up that long sit with a few minutes of standing/walking every half-hour or so seems to have significant health benefits: http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/stories/2012/09/24/3596655.htm
none2_none2
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Posts
- 1,086
more
Her article does a big disservice to the LBGT community. No one in their right mind would argue that shaming people doesn't help whether the topic is weight, smoking, or any other such topics that expose our less-than-perfect conditions that we all have.
Likewise, BMI is a cheap method for categorizing weight that is not nearly as accurate as hydrostatic underwater weighing. (NOTE: While she mentioned the pinch test, that is for subcutaneous fat and does little to detect the more dangerous visceral fat.) Unfortunately, most do not have access to such proper systems of measurement. In my experiences, I usually saw BMI with some input as to one's body build: Endo-, Ecto-, Meso- morph. However, that was more in the university's phys ed department, than in a medical establishment. To be honest it was in that environment where they DID have the correct equipment.
However, there is no "alleged 'obesity epidemic'", it is for real. One can google for charts about it. Here are a couple that show the correlation of increased weight and diabetes
http://www.indiana.edu/~oso/Fructose/Diabetes_Obesity.jpg:
http://www.indiana.edu/~oso/Fructose/diabetes-obesity-risk.gif
Likewise, morbid obesity doesn't exist in a vacuum. It starts with a few pounds over, then more, then classified as obese, etc... It is progressive. In my case, it simply kept going up even though I jogged, lifted weights, etc. I refused to except the fact that most of us cannot exercise 24x7, so I do have to reduce intake.
In the gay male culture, there are some who make a fetish of some of the most unhealthy practices -- getting bred by HIV+ sex partners, smoking during sex, and yes even weight gain. I chatted with a guy who wanted partners who kept getting bigger -- not from steroids (also unhealthy) and body building, but from deliberately stuffing to gain weight. This desire to make a fetish out of known health hazards is insane. Hopefully, this kind of crap isn't as prevalent in the lesbian community.
I think it is great that plenty of lesbians are not out to please the male-dominated cultural view of the slender woman beauty queen (Barbie-esque). I recall years ago in junior high when I was in a running club. There was a girl who was beautiful just the way she was. Her mother made her quit the club because she feared that her daughters calves were developing and thus she would look too "manish". This had nothing to do with her weight as she was not overweight in the least, she simply didn't have "skinny" legs that her mother felt were appropriate. It was a crying shame that she had to quit as she was a great runner, and to think that her own MOTHER would do this to her. (I hope that she eventually disregarded other people's opinions of her perfectly fine body.)
Her article does a big disservice to the LBGT community. No one in their right mind would argue that shaming people doesn't help whether the topic is weight, smoking, or any other such topics that expose our less-than-perfect conditions that we all have.
Likewise, BMI is a cheap method for categorizing weight that is not nearly as accurate as hydrostatic underwater weighing. (NOTE: While she mentioned the pinch test, that is for subcutaneous fat and does little to detect the more dangerous visceral fat.) Unfortunately, most do not have access to such proper systems of measurement. In my experiences, I usually saw BMI with some input as to one's body build: Endo-, Ecto-, Meso- morph. However, that was more in the university's phys ed department, than in a medical establishment. To be honest it was in that environment where they DID have the correct equipment.
However, there is no "alleged 'obesity epidemic'", it is for real. One can google for charts about it. Here are a couple that show the correlation of increased weight and diabetes
http://www.indiana.edu/~oso/Fructose/Diabetes_Obesity.jpg:
http://www.indiana.edu/~oso/Fructose/diabetes-obesity-risk.gif
Likewise, morbid obesity doesn't exist in a vacuum. It starts with a few pounds over, then more, then classified as obese, etc... It is progressive. In my case, it simply kept going up even though I jogged, lifted weights, etc. I refused to except the fact that most of us cannot exercise 24x7, so I do have to reduce intake.
In the gay male culture, there are some who make a fetish of some of the most unhealthy practices -- getting bred by HIV+ sex partners, smoking during sex, and yes even weight gain. I chatted with a guy who wanted partners who kept getting bigger -- not from steroids (also unhealthy) and body building, but from deliberately stuffing to gain weight. This desire to make a fetish out of known health hazards is insane. Hopefully, this kind of crap isn't as prevalent in the lesbian community.
I think it is great that plenty of lesbians are not out to please the male-dominated cultural view of the slender woman beauty queen (Barbie-esque). I recall years ago in junior high when I was in a running club. There was a girl who was beautiful just the way she was. Her mother made her quit the club because she feared that her daughters calves were developing and thus she would look too "manish". This had nothing to do with her weight as she was not overweight in the least, she simply didn't have "skinny" legs that her mother felt were appropriate. It was a crying shame that she had to quit as she was a great runner, and to think that her own MOTHER would do this to her. (I hope that she eventually disregarded other people's opinions of her perfectly fine body.)
Last edited:
Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 16,739
The stories about gay men are trying to contract HIV ("bug chasing") are, at the least, heavily exaggerated. On a planet of seven billion people there's probably somebody out there pursuing every fetish imaginable, but the evidence for real-life bug chasing is very thin on the ground. The waters seem to be muddied a bit by guys using bug chasing as a fantasy who don't follow through IRL:
http://www.salon.com/2003/01/24/rolling/
http://marksking.com/my-fabulous-disease/tracking-the-elusive-hiv-bug-chasers/
http://www.aac.org/media/blog/bug-chasing-the-myth-that.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4895012.stm
Is smoking+sex particularly a GM thing? My understanding is that it's a turn-on for a lot of straight men too.
LesbianChickLit
Virgin
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2013
- Posts
- 19
The lesbian community overall tends to preach to itself and others to not judge and to value ourselves as we are naturally - which is usually a good message - however it's a poor choice to be accepting of poor fitness.
My father died of complications of unacknowledged T2D at 57. Knowing that heredity and life choices in my twenties will affect my odds later, measuring and maintaining a healthy lifestyle is a priority for me.
I'm not arguing for BMI. It's only reliably effective on the ends of the bell curve, and it's probably not needed to discern that being 5'2" and 250lbs is not ideal. (I prefer the bod pod myself for personal evaluation.) Rather, I'd worry about normal weight obesity on the other end being missed by such a generic measurement that doesn't account for body type.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...rt-answers/normal-weight-obesity/faq-20058313
Shaming or judging automatically would be wrong, because different people have different circumstances and priorities. But evaluation is happening nonetheless, and allowing a friend with poor fitness to flounder for the sake of "body image" is not a kindness.
While I've slept with "BBW," I wouldn't date one. Whether obesity is a cause or a symptom of inactivity, I believe that compatibility in fitness is even more important long-term than financial or intellectual compatibility, and not primarily for sex. I want to be with a woman who'll hike, surf, play tennis, etc with me, not a woman who gets winded after two flights of stairs.
Yet this is not an approved stance among my gay friends. Rejecting a woman for low intelligence would just be considered having standards, even though that's a condition wholly beyond her control. Rejecting a woman for being overweight and the resulting side-effects would be considered shallow, even though - in most cases - that's a condition she could actively work to change at least to a degree.
My father died of complications of unacknowledged T2D at 57. Knowing that heredity and life choices in my twenties will affect my odds later, measuring and maintaining a healthy lifestyle is a priority for me.
I'm not arguing for BMI. It's only reliably effective on the ends of the bell curve, and it's probably not needed to discern that being 5'2" and 250lbs is not ideal. (I prefer the bod pod myself for personal evaluation.) Rather, I'd worry about normal weight obesity on the other end being missed by such a generic measurement that doesn't account for body type.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...rt-answers/normal-weight-obesity/faq-20058313
Shaming or judging automatically would be wrong, because different people have different circumstances and priorities. But evaluation is happening nonetheless, and allowing a friend with poor fitness to flounder for the sake of "body image" is not a kindness.
While I've slept with "BBW," I wouldn't date one. Whether obesity is a cause or a symptom of inactivity, I believe that compatibility in fitness is even more important long-term than financial or intellectual compatibility, and not primarily for sex. I want to be with a woman who'll hike, surf, play tennis, etc with me, not a woman who gets winded after two flights of stairs.
Yet this is not an approved stance among my gay friends. Rejecting a woman for low intelligence would just be considered having standards, even though that's a condition wholly beyond her control. Rejecting a woman for being overweight and the resulting side-effects would be considered shallow, even though - in most cases - that's a condition she could actively work to change at least to a degree.
Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 16,739
Noting that if you are concerned about a friend's weight, you don't have to choose between encouraging physical health and encouraging a positive body image. It's actually both or neither: overweight people who are exposed to negative messages about being overweight are more likely to eat unhealthy snacks in the short term, and to gain weight in the long term.
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/fat_shaming_doesnt_work-127398
http://thinkprogress.org/health/201...-people-actually-makes-them-gain-more-weight/
http://consumer.healthday.com/menta...ivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight-691658.html
Erochic
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Posts
- 2,498
I am bisexual (but with more opposite sex attraction/experience than same sex) and I have found that I am attracted to a more curvaceous figure than I am happy with in myself.
It's crazy - if she's more rounded and curvy and soft and feminine I think "oh god I'm so attracted to her" if she loses weight and gets more "in shape" I tend not to be so attracted but think "I want to look like her".
It's crazy - if she's more rounded and curvy and soft and feminine I think "oh god I'm so attracted to her" if she loses weight and gets more "in shape" I tend not to be so attracted but think "I want to look like her".
stickygirl
All the witches
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2012
- Posts
- 21,200
^^^ Kerching!
That hits the nail on the head for me. That body shape envy is what "the media" keeps pushing on us and is what the lesbian community is arguing against because "media=patriarchy=evil".
I once accused a medical friend of being a body fascist for making scathing remarks about obese patients, whose knees were crumbling through being over-weight. You can't write-off people based on a short consult, when you know nothing about a person's background or emotional/mental health. Over-eating is so often a symptom of unhappiness and it's unhappiness that is the epidemic.
Maybe I'm the one being naive
Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 16,739
It also has a lot to do with what people are eating, not just how much. For people who are both cash- and time-poor it can be hard to manage a healthy diet - when you've just come off a second shift and you've got kids to feed, you're not going to be nipping down to the farmer's market and buying vegetables that will take another half-hour to prepare.
Doesn't help that in the USA food manufacturers put truckloads of sugar in things that shouldn't have sugar in them.
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 42,033
I would think-of course I am outside looking in on this-that Lesbian women and Gay men are most likely more comfortable in their skin because they are already part of an alternative lifestyle and worry less about what most people think.
Straight women tend to be more insecure, usually because other straight women and asshat straight men make them that way
On another note, know who doesn't seem to mind being heavy? The asshat men who say women should lose weight
I was at a bar the other night and swore I was the only guy there who could see his dick without a mirror and they're all talking about how the cute bartender would be even hotter if she didn't have a "joey pouch" from having a kid.
Straight women tend to be more insecure, usually because other straight women and asshat straight men make them that way
On another note, know who doesn't seem to mind being heavy? The asshat men who say women should lose weight
I was at a bar the other night and swore I was the only guy there who could see his dick without a mirror and they're all talking about how the cute bartender would be even hotter if she didn't have a "joey pouch" from having a kid.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
And that opens up a whole other can of worms. I think I'm not gonna go there it's a beautiful Sunday morning...
none2_none2
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Posts
- 1,086
In general I would not agree with this. People have insecurities, it doesn't matter their gender nor their sexual desires. It does seem stronger among women than men, but keep in mind society in general objectifies women more than men. Over the centuries many paintings were of the woman's total body, where for men lots of times the focus was just on the bust. (Speaking of which is it interesting that women with lost of lose fat were once typical in female nudes.)
Also keep in mind that being attracted to someone of your own gender isn't about being more comfortable with your OWN skin, but what you are compelled to do with someone else's skin
. Its like opposite polar magnets. They collide simply because of the strong attractional forces. In my case, I had such a strong attraction specifically to hairy, Caucasian, masculine bottoms. Was I always comfortable just approaching such guys? No way. The attraction was so strong when I was a teen. I would see such beautiful hairy bodies in locker rooms and wanted so bad to touch their butts. I was terrified that adult men in their 20's, 30's and 40's would kill a pre-teen/teen who wanted to touch their behinds.
It wasn't just the fear that they were uber-straight and would despised a male's attraction to them. I also felt that I could not be possibly attractive to them even if they were non-straight... I have longish hair to hide a birth defect. I had scars on my body for all the surgeries to correct that (some skin graphs & another cut on my ribs).
While weight wasn't a problem until late in life, I worried about muscularity. Probably one of my biggest concerns was size. Endowment is such a focus for many guys. Personally, I think it is a bigger deal with gay men sex partners than with straight women. My thought on that is because women in general don't seem to be that shallow -- just my indirect observations. Where as with men (gay/straight/bi/whatever), they tend to me more matter of fact in rejecting someone else if they don't measure up (no pun intended). (Kind of as you mentioned in your example of men in a bar.)
There comes a point in everybody's life where they have to decide whether to act on their attraction, or stay virginal with their insecurities. I think my hormones in my 20's were running just to strong to not have sex with others. However, the insecurities simply remained. Over the years eventually the insecurities fade -- from maturity -- not from a particular lifestyle. You simply cannot continue to burn so many "emotional" calories over what you cannot control. I still wish I was better hung, but I'm not. Unless I plan on committing suicide over it (which I'm not), I simply have to accept that I have what I have. Same applies to any insecurities.
As for fat, I HATE it on me - obviously not enough to loose it. I don't buy into this crap of the politics that accept yourself at whatever weight you are at. Maybe I would feel a bit difference if I had been overweight all of my life. As far as I'm concerned fat is unhealthy. Anorexia is also unhealthy, but quite frankly few men have that problem. Disliking fat at least in my case isn't about judging beauty, but strictly about health. Seriously when I cannot tie my shoes without huffing and puffing, am I supposed to look up in the mirror and say I'm beautiful just the way I am with my face all red from lack of oxygen? Even if I was non-diabetic, non-high blood pressure, non-high cholesterol, non-sleep apnea affected (which I cannot imagine with this weight level), I would still say that fat is unacceptable to me.
Netzach
>semiotics?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
- Posts
- 21,732
I don't think actual flesh and blood heterosexual men of adult age actually have the standards that your average advertisement plants in your head as being beautiful. The standards may be developed by "the man" but they are enforced by heterosexual women, and relentlessly so. I think that our relationship to that kind of programming is complicated at best. For me, yeah, those extra ten to fifteen pounds were a terrific way to drive my mother completely insane over something I truly still would give no fuck about. (we're talking I was 135 when she wanted me to be 120 for what fucked up purpose I don't care.) Most men really WILL be interested in just about whatever you put in a short skirt and a little confidence. It's not for their benefit, all this insanity.
The bartender scene was purely a misogynistic bonding ritual. ANY of them would have gotten with her in a minute, that's the ridiculous part of it.
As for weight/health stuff, come the fuck off it. You do not give a fuck about the health of that fat person or yourself when you sound like this, you just freak out over the fat. You do not want to be sure that your hiking partner can keep up with you, when one of the most fit girls I've ever met is also one of the roundest, it's just how it is. You don't love her aesthetic. And that's fine too. It's much better to just say "I can't get into that aesthetic" than some mealymouthed crap about your divergent interests. My tolerance for being out in the woods on a trail is about the same at 125, 150, and 180.
Personally, I can't say that every BBW or very many SSBBW's would be attractive to me. There, no one died.
I've gained and lost weight taking myself in and out of the overweight box, and it wasn't additive shame that got me to do it or got me not to do it, it has to do with a sense of control and empowerment and liking myself whatever I looked like and wanting to control my health, seriously and for real was what made the difference. If I was going to be healthier by GAINING 100 pounds or eating worms or smearing dung on myself I would have done any of those things too. If you're worried about your health, REALLY worried about your health, you are able to unmoor it completely from how you look and should look. Me, I was only able to get more "attractive" (whatever) when I was willing to become LESS attractive and when the only question of the day was "did you put anything in you that is a poison?"
Alcoholism and addiction aren't healthy either and somehow we figured out that amping up the fucking shame doesn't get people into a better place. With weight, somehow piling on that person relentlessly is doing them a favor. Right.
I'm currently not thrilled with how I look, but I've decided to stop letting it ruin my fucking day, and go figure, I wind up losing 10 pounds by not being ashamed to go do shit. Whether it's going for a walk, a drive, buying appropriate groceries or fucking eating a giant piece of cake (poison, tomorrow no poison) IN PUBLIC! Nobody who cares what I'm doing cares for my benefit. Except me and my immediates.
The bartender scene was purely a misogynistic bonding ritual. ANY of them would have gotten with her in a minute, that's the ridiculous part of it.
As for weight/health stuff, come the fuck off it. You do not give a fuck about the health of that fat person or yourself when you sound like this, you just freak out over the fat. You do not want to be sure that your hiking partner can keep up with you, when one of the most fit girls I've ever met is also one of the roundest, it's just how it is. You don't love her aesthetic. And that's fine too. It's much better to just say "I can't get into that aesthetic" than some mealymouthed crap about your divergent interests. My tolerance for being out in the woods on a trail is about the same at 125, 150, and 180.
Personally, I can't say that every BBW or very many SSBBW's would be attractive to me. There, no one died.
I've gained and lost weight taking myself in and out of the overweight box, and it wasn't additive shame that got me to do it or got me not to do it, it has to do with a sense of control and empowerment and liking myself whatever I looked like and wanting to control my health, seriously and for real was what made the difference. If I was going to be healthier by GAINING 100 pounds or eating worms or smearing dung on myself I would have done any of those things too. If you're worried about your health, REALLY worried about your health, you are able to unmoor it completely from how you look and should look. Me, I was only able to get more "attractive" (whatever) when I was willing to become LESS attractive and when the only question of the day was "did you put anything in you that is a poison?"
Alcoholism and addiction aren't healthy either and somehow we figured out that amping up the fucking shame doesn't get people into a better place. With weight, somehow piling on that person relentlessly is doing them a favor. Right.
I'm currently not thrilled with how I look, but I've decided to stop letting it ruin my fucking day, and go figure, I wind up losing 10 pounds by not being ashamed to go do shit. Whether it's going for a walk, a drive, buying appropriate groceries or fucking eating a giant piece of cake (poison, tomorrow no poison) IN PUBLIC! Nobody who cares what I'm doing cares for my benefit. Except me and my immediates.
Last edited:
Similar threads
