Old 01-28-2017, 08:02 AM   #26
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Another poster who hasn't been back for two days...well at least they got a nice list of stories to...
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Old 01-28-2017, 08:52 AM   #27
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Jehoram, thank you for the link. I looked at it and from the titles there seems to be stories I would like. I already read one of the stories “Endymion” and I enjoyed it. It is very much the type of story I like.

Bramblethorn, I would think that the Lesbian category would be a good place to find woman-focused stories

Wise, your observation that my answers (so far) are all from men is interesting.

Holliday, thank you for your statement for gentlemen to play nice.

NicoleZ, you bring up a very good point. I don’t “. . . want to read stories that confirm male misconceptions and fantasies . . .” But since my guess is that most Lesbian sites are done by men (men tend to dominate must areas of our culture) it is difficult.

Choe Tzang, thank you for your comment, but I’m not sure if you meant that your “Chinese Takeout” series are about women.

Beast, I know there are many amazing female writers and many books about women, because I have been reading them, but my main concern is with the lack of movies about women.

Thank you Areala-chan for your suggestion,

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Old 01-28-2017, 09:00 AM   #28
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Over my long life I have seen many movies and also have heard or read about many more and as a result I feel that there are many more movies about men than about women. That is there are many more movies where the main character, the one that we learn the most about, the one whose emotions we are most likely to see and the one that gets things done are men. So I decided to look into this more and this is what I found.

The Internet Movie Database (IMDb) see here http://www.imdb.com/stats contains lots of information on virtually all films. According to their data they list 1,128,247 actresses and 1,936,490 actors for a ratio of 1.7 actors for every actress. Further they show 8,958,877 actress credits and 13,989,534 actor credits for a ratio of 1.6 actor credits for every actress credits. This means that for every three actresses and actress credits there are approximately five actors and actor credits. But this does not necessarily show how important actors and actresses are for the story.

The Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism conducted surveys on the top-grossing films in the five years from 2007 to 2010 plus 2012 see here: http://annenberg.usc.edu/pages/~/med...mith_2013.ashx. According to their data on average (over those five years) 30.84% of on screen speaking characters were female and on average 10.74% of films had a balanced female to male cast.

According to the Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media see here: https://seejane.org/research-informs-empowers/data/ “In 2015, 17% of the top grossing films had a female lead.” Further, the amount of screen time and speaking time for men were double that for women. In films with a male lead men appeared and spoke approximately three times the amount that women did and in films with a female lead the amount of screen time and speaking time for men was approximately the same as for women. Finally in films with female and male co-leads the screen and speaking time for men were more than for women.

I also looked at the 88 Best Picture Oscar winners. For each film I read the IMDb storyline to determine whether the film had a female lead or a male lead or a mixed lead. Mixed leads could be female and male co-leads or groups that included both female and males. Of the 88 films I feel that 12 have female leads (14%), 15 have mixed leads (17%) and 61 have male leads (69%). This means that for every best picture with a female lead there are approximately five with male leads. Also in the mixed lead category I have included four with mixed groups leads. However each of these four has more males than females in their group.

Just because there is a woman and man in a relationship does not meant that they are both equally leads as one member of the relationship may be important out of that relationship. For example I included “Gone with the Wind” (1939) in with female leads and Casablanca (1940) in with male leads. Also there could be characters that are important, but not so much as I considered them to be leads. I admit that my determinations are somewhat open to question, but I do not feel that such questioning would significantly change my conclusion.

Moonlight and Roses,

PS I plan to list, in the future, the "best pictures" that I feel are mainly about women.

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Old 01-28-2017, 09:26 AM   #29
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Over my long life I have seen many movies and also have heard or read about many more and as a result I feel that there are many more movies about men than about women. That is there are many more movies where the main character, the one that we learn the most about, the one whose emotions we are most likely to see and the one that gets things done are men.
This is only natural as the egos of men are easily bruised and as a consequence, they constantly need to be comforted and reassured. From a biological perspective, mankind does not differ significantly from other most other species of animal where the male struts his stuff before the female who is the one who chooses, thus rejection is the ubiquitous companion of males. Next time you go out, just seat yourself in a dark corner and observe who does what and you will see the truth of this.

It is because of this that in advertising and art, we almost always find a role reversal where the most attractive of women preen themselves helplessly, their mating lust overpowering, for the male who is wise enough to choose Pepsi, Armani and what have you.

Sometimes, I almost feel sorry for men.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:41 AM   #30
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Choe Tzang, thank you for your comment, but I’m not sure if you meant that your “Chinese Takeout” series are about women.
Oh, it is, but all my stories are about asian (mostly chinese) girls in america. The protagonist in Chinese Takeout is slowly finding herself, while going thru that clash between chinese familial and cultural expectations and finding her own place. Its a chinese girl / biker romance with Jay-Lin gradually growing in to biker culture. Have had a few bikers tell me they I've really nailed the whole biker culture thing, which is great. Anyhow, part of the plot is Jay-Lin becoming a lot stronger and more self-reliant .....

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Old 01-28-2017, 11:54 AM   #31
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Nicole, your post is a very thoughtful and interesting. My opinion is that the way people behave in any particular culture is determined by the interaction of “nature” and “nurture.” Roughly nature is the genes that we are born with and nurture is how we are brought up. Since I am interested in how cultures change I am more interested in nurture. My opinion is that there being many more movies about men than about women is not necessarily more natural to humans than is the treating of women as second class citizens or that women should not vote or not wear pants or that men cannot be beautiful. Because women have been treated as second class citizens or worse in every complex society (civilization) means, in my opinion, that women have taken on the more passive role, for example dressing to attract men and men have taken on the more active role, getting most things done and earning the most money. Thus, these cultural roles are reflected in movies. That is in movies women tend to be there for their visual appearance and men are there to accomplish things. Also women tend to have the more superficial roles and men are the ones that we tend to know most about. Now, our culture is changing, but it doesn’t seem to me that movies have caught up with that change yet. I feel cultural change takes time. This is very simple outline of my thoughts. I don’t disagree with you in terms of men’s egos, I just am not sure of the source of that.

This is why I wrote that “I see this topic as being a companion to “The Male Form” and “that I feel that both this topic and “The Male Form” are examinations of female and male gender roles.” It is also why I chose the name “Moonlight and Roses” as I feel that in our culture it is more likely to be a name a woman would pick. Also I was clear I am a man because I am one.

Thank you for contributing.

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Old 01-28-2017, 12:00 PM   #32
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Chloe Tazng, thank you for the clarification. Your description that “The protagonist in Chinese Takeout is slowly finding herself, while going thru that clash between Chinese familial and cultural expectations and finding her own place” interests me as I like slow character development and I am interested in cultural differences.

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Old 01-28-2017, 08:46 PM   #33
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I would tell you to read Rideme Cowgirl's masterpiece, but she's not here anymore and neither is her story but it was published in the Literotica anthologies books so maybe you can get it there and stuff.

Ooops. sorry that just sorta slipped out and stuff.

DAMMIT ! there it is again and stuff.

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Old 01-29-2017, 10:45 AM   #34
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Nicole I’ve been thinking about your interesting last comment. My idea, which may be incorrect, is that what we see in movies comes from the long history of men dominating and controlling women. The desire for men to control women may be enhanced by male insincerities as you explained so the nature of movies today may be indirectly a result of those insincerities. Further, as I thought about your comment I realized it was a compliment to me (maybe you didn’t mean it to be), as I tend not to like movies about men and prefer movies about women.

Moonlight and Roses,

I added this after and as a consequence of my reading Nicole’s comment of 1/29/17 number 35, the next comment. Above I wrote regarding a “. . . long history of men dominating and controlling women.” Some may think this is too strong of a statement and perhaps it is. What I was referring to is the various norms, laws and customs that have tended to keep women dependent on men and to reduce their influence on society as a whole.

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Old 01-29-2017, 01:05 PM   #35
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Nicole I’ve been thinking about your interesting last comment. My idea, which may be incorrect, is that what we see in movies comes from the long history of men dominating and controlling women.
If you delete the last part and instead write "who desire to dominate and control women" and and add "in the same manner they perceive that the alpha male is" and I think you have nailed it. As an example it explains so many facets of male behaviour such as domestic violence or verbal abuse designed to shatter her confidence.

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The desire for men to control women may be enhanced by male insincerities as you explained so the nature of movies today may be indirectly a result of those insincerities.
That is not a recent feature but one that has been present since a long time ago, Moonlight & Roses. Take a look at the roles played by John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Sylvester Stallone, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon etc. All play roles other men want to identify with (which is perhaps why films like The Bridges of Madison County come as such a surprise). Far from every man is the alpha male and those who aren't enjoy the fantasy of being one. Against that, films such as Miss Secret Agent or Erin Brockovich are gender-reversed carbon copies of that pattern.

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Further, as I thought about your comment I realized it was a compliment to me
Yes! Anyone who prefers movies about women rather than those about "real" men should be complimented.
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Old 01-29-2017, 02:16 PM   #36
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Nicole, I’m glad you responded. I was concerned that you may have felt that I simply dismissed your idea, I did not mean to do that, so I was hoping that I could clarify what I meant. Again I found your comment to be thought provoking. Also thank you for the complement and the rose.

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Old 01-29-2017, 02:21 PM   #37
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Here are the 12 “best picture” movies that I feel are primarily about a woman or women (14% of all “best pictures”):

The Broadway Melody 1929
Gone with the Wind 1939
Mrs. Miniver 1942
All About Eve 1950
The Sound of Music 1965
Terms of Endearment 1983
Out of Africa 1985
The Silence of the Lambs 1991
The English Patient 1996
Titanic 1997
Chicago 2002
Million Dollar Baby 2004

A list of best picture winners up until 2015 can be found here: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls009480135/
The 2016 winner was “Spotlight.” What is interesting to me is that the last “best picture” that I feel was primarily about a woman or women was made 12 years ago and that since then I feel there were nine “best pictures” primarily about men.

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Old 01-29-2017, 06:14 PM   #38
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Jehoram, thank you for the link. I looked at it and from the titles there seems to be stories I would like. I already read one of the stories “Endymion” and I enjoyed it. It is very much the type of story I like.
Why, thank you! It's always nice to know when one is connecting with people. As for "Endymion," it started with a writing assignment I had in college. It was more "Victorian" then, abounding in euphemisms for body parts. I re-wrote it a few years back, and that's what ended up here. It's still one of my favorite stories.

You'll notice that it has no dialogue. That's because I was horrible at writing dialogue. I have to thank Jehoram for getting me out of that. He re-wrote much of my dialogue in the early "Emily" series to reflect a more conversational tone, rather than an expository one. Thankfully, he hasn't had to do much of that anymore.
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:10 AM   #39
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Athalia, I didn’t think of it having no dialogue until I read your post, however, while I feel dialogue helps many stories I feel no dialogue gives “Endymion” more of an enchanted feeling. It may also be the ultimate in the active, asserted female and passive male story. I’ve known of the story before I read yours and I feel yours is perhaps the best version of it I have read. This myth has been a favorite subject for painters, including the female artist Angelica Kauffmann and if you do a google image search for Endymion you should be able to find many such paintings. Another myth that you may know of that is similar in a way is that of Hylas and the Nymph(s).

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Old 01-30-2017, 11:24 AM   #40
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Here are the 15 “best picture” movies that I feel are mixed female/male leads (17% of all “best pictures”). The 12 female lead best pictures can be found three comments above:

Cimarron 1931 - couple
Grand Hotel 1932 - group more male
Cavalcade 1933 - couple
It Happened One Night 1934 - couple
You Can’t Take It with You 1938 - couple
Rebecca 1940 - couple
Gigi 1958 - couple
West Side Story 1961 - couple
My Fair Lady 1964 - female/male
Annie Hall 1977 - couple
Ordinary People 1980 - group more male
Driving Miss Daisy 1989 - female/male
American Beauty 1999 - female/male
Crash 2004 - group more male
Spotlight 2015 - group more male

A list of best picture winners up until 2015 can be found here: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls009480135/
The 2016 winner was “Spotlight.” It seems to me that the full decade which best represents women in “best picture” is the 1930s, not because it has many female leads, but because it has four mixed leads and only five male leads.

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Old 02-01-2017, 10:34 AM   #41
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Continuing with the subject of “best pictures” here is a list of the nine “best picture” nominees for the upcoming Oscars along with my determination as to whether they about a female(s), male(s) or a couple:

Arrival, female
Fences, male
Hacksaw Ridge, male
Hell or High Water, male
Hidden Figures, female
La La Land, couple
Lion, male
Manchester by the Sea, male
Moonlight, male

So, 2.5 nominations are for movies where the main characters are female and 6.5 are for movies where the main characters are male (the half is due to La La Land). I’m not claiming that this imbalance is due to a bias among the members of the Academy, but I do feel that it is due to an imbalance in what movies are being made. Also I am not saying that one of the movies with a female(s) lead should win. So far I have already seen La La Land and Hidden Figures and I plan to see Arrival. Now, I’m sure that someone could have made an interesting and enjoyable movie about three white men working on the space program, but to me it is much more interesting that these characters were three black women. Showing men striving in movies is pretty commonplace.

Here is a link to a picture that shows some of the feeling I get from the movie's story: http://cdn4.thr.com/sites/default/fi...kodachrome.jpg.

Moonlight and Roses,

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Old 02-04-2017, 09:52 AM   #42
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The painter Dame Laura Knight was born in Derbyshire, England in 1877. At the age of 13 she entered the Nottingham School of Art with a scholarship. During the Second World War, Laura Knight produced paintings for the War Artists Advisory Committee. These pictures include the dual portrait of “Corporal Elspeth Henderson and Sergeant Helen Turner” (1941) – two female members of the Women’s Auxiliary Air Force who had received the Military Medal for their bravery in remaining at their posts during a 1940 air raid on Biggin Hill, England. See here: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...nderso-001.jpg

Other paintings the artist produced for the committee include the picture “A Balloon Site, Coventry, 1943” and the portrait of “Ruby Loftus Screwing a Breech-Ring” (c. 1943). See here: http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/176/456/large_000000.jpg and here http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/146/374/large_000000.jpg.

Laura Knight was made a Dame of the British Empire in 1929 and after becoming an associate member of the Royal Academy of Arts in 1927 became a full member in 1936. I like all of the pictures, but I particularly like the Balloon Site one. Any one of these paintings could be used to inspire a story about women.

Moonlight and Roses,

PS, I have written that there are many more movies about men than about women and I gave some evidence for my feeling. No one disagreed with that claim. Do people feel I am correct in that or not?
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:47 PM   #43
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PS, I have written that there are many more movies about men than about women and I gave some evidence for my feeling. No one disagreed with that claim. Do people feel I am correct in that or not?
You are correct.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...mination-study
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:36 AM   #44
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Electric Blue, Thanks for the reply and the link.

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Old 02-08-2017, 08:26 AM   #45
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To illustrate the type of story that could be written about a group of women I have come up with the following scenario:

It would be realistic and set during the 1920s in either Paris or Berlin and a working title would be “The Flappers.” There are at least five main characters, all female and each living in Paris for a different reason. One is an artist – a painter, another volunteered as a nurse during the World War, then there is a Bass player for an orchestra and a jazz combo, a fourth is a physics and mathematics student at The Sorbonne and of course one is a dancer in the corps de ballet with the Ballets Russes. The woman who had been the nurse during the World War would, as she is a little older, more experienced and responsible than the others, act as a mother figure answering questions and listening to problems and heartaches.

This story would highlight the companionship among the women. Their relationships between each other, as well has their individual emotions, pleasures, fears, disappointments and achievements.

The women would be from different nations. At least one was born in Paris, another from an East European nation, another from Russia, and then there could be women from Germany, Ireland and America. The woman from America would have left home as, because of her race, she was treated as someone foreign even though she, her parents and grandparents were born in the United States. Also one of the women would have been born into the Jewish faith. Each woman would be a different body type.

For the most part the women are heterosexual, but there would be one or two lesbians or partly straight women. They would have different erotic, romantic styles of life. One would be in an unmarried long term relationship, another may be interested in nightly flings, a third’s husband may be out of the county, a forth may not be interested in any sexual relationship until she has a one-night stand and a fifth may have a crash on someone who hardly knows she exists. No orgies.

The women would be shown going around Paris, to their jobs or university or to visit the sights – the museums, the parks, Montmartre, the Left Bank and to the cafes, restaurants and night clubs. One episode which illustrates the nature of the women’s relationships to each other and the nature of their adventures is the following: Five of the women are walking down a dark Paris alley after leaving a night club and are a little tipsy. Two very drunk men approach them and block their way. After being harassed the ballet dancer, who though she looks frail is really quite strong and used to quick and accurate movements suddenly hauls off and punches the more abusive guy in the face, breaking his nose. As his companion goes to help him the women all run off laughing. Other than this the men that the women meet would be nice.

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Old 02-08-2017, 09:35 AM   #46
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An interesting concept although I think you'd find that the former nurse was far from being the oldest whereas the ballet dancer would probably be so, being a former Ballerina or Ballet teacher of the Bolshoi with unhealthy connections to the former Russian Court. This would make for a more powerful dynamic between the women.

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For the most part the women are heterosexual, but there would be one or two lesbians or partly straight women.
How about making all of them except the ballerina sexually inexperienced and closet bi-curious?
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:10 PM   #47
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I was reading something the other day about a test that you can make to determine how male-centric a movie is (I wish I could remember the name of the test). It says that it's truly non-male-centric if two women are having a dialog, and the subject of the dialog does not concern a male, then it passes the test.

The only movie I've seen recently that fits that description is "Don't Think Twice" where two women are discussing their career paths.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:25 PM   #48
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To illustrate the type of story that could be written about a group of women I have come up with the following scenario:
Your scenario provides characters and a location, but seems to be missing a story; plot? conflict? resolution?
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:37 PM   #49
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I was reading something the other day about a test that you can make to determine how male-centric a movie is (I wish I could remember the name of the test). It says that it's truly non-male-centric if two women are having a dialog, and the subject of the dialog does not concern a male, then it passes the test.

The only movie I've seen recently that fits that description is "Don't Think Twice" where two women are discussing their career paths.
The Bechdel Test is what you're thinking of.
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:51 PM   #50
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Nicole, thank you for the comment, I didn’t think I would get any. You idea of the ballet dancer being the oldest and previously being connected with the Bolshoi is interesting. There could be a flashback of her leaving (escaping) from Russia during or just after the revolution. What is most important for me is that the women would be diverse as being from different places and with different ambitions, but at the same time, because they are all human and all women they would have certain similarities as to their feelings and emotions. It is this interplay of differences and similarities that most interests me. I feel that some of the women being sexually inexperienced would be a good idea. I would not like to have most of them be “closet bicurious” for two reasons. One, for my own personal preference, I want most of the women to be exclusively sexually interested in men. Second, I see this to be a story of random women becoming friends and while it is likely that among a random group of women some would be bicurious or lesbian women I don’t feel it is that likely that most would be. But, that is just my preference. An interesting scene could involve straight, bisexual and lesbian women discussing their preferences.

Actually I got a little secret to tell you, so don’t let anyone else know. With the exception of “solo sex” I didn’t think of this story as having much explicit sexual descriptions. This is one reason I wrote “No orgies.” While I don’t feel this story would be like most non-erotic ones I also don't feel that it would be like most erotic ones either. I plan to continue this tomorrow and hopefully that post would make clear what I mean.

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