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Old 01-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #1
scally21
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Time for site name change?

Perhaps the site should be called Illiterotica. I find it particularly irksome to find that moderators on this site pander to the requests of deleting and removing of comments simply to protect an author's bruised ego. On numerous occasions now comments of mine that give fair critiques with regards to spelling and or grammar have been removed. When I do give these critiques it's never done maliciously. I realise that several authors invest many hours and sometimes even their heart and soul into some of these stories and therefore I find it incomprehensible that given that, they neglect to invest a little further by having them proofread or at the very least gone over by a spell checker.

I always allow for those who's first language isn't English but the vast majority of mistakes come from those who's first language is English. Be it via British or US English.

I fully endorse removal of spiteful comments by the spineless 'anonymous'. But moderators, you should allow fair critique and perhaps even guide some of these soft centered authors to the guidance of proofreaders that this site provides.

Rant over!
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:27 AM   #2
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The comments were probably removed by the authors, not the moderators. I've had plenty of comments correcting my spelling, grammar, etc and none of them have been removed by moderators. I'm trying to think of comments removed by a moderator and there may have been one removed because it was a spammer and one removed because it attacked other commenters. Very hazy recollection and I could be wrong.

That being said, I think PM's are a more appropriate way of providing detailed feedback about errors in the story. I prefer my comments to be high-level discussions of the story. I hate it when the only comment a person makes after reading an eight-page story is "You misspelled a word on page four."
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:02 PM   #3
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Completely agree with 8Letters.
I never delete comments, even the ones that piss me off.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:59 PM   #4
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The only time the site will remove a comment is if it contains spam. There are rare occasions where they will if it contains some serious hate speech, but it has to be really over the top.

Other wise if a comment has been deleted the author is doing it themselves. Every author handles this differently. Some, like myself, will leave every comment up no matter how abusive, others will remove ones which offends them. Nothing wrong with either way.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scally21 View Post
I find it particularly irksome to find that moderators on this site pander to the requests of deleting and removing of comments simply to protect an author's bruised ego.
Us board moderators don't have that power.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by scally21 View Post
On numerous occasions now comments of mine that give fair critiques with regards to spelling and or grammar have been removed. When I do give these critiques it's never done maliciously.!
OK - so go make your services available in the Editor's Forum and provide assistance to those that do ASK for help.

You can then point to your huge body of published work here on Lit as evidence of your ability and qualifications...

... oh


... well, here's where we need friend Pilot to jump in with the usual spiel on vigilante editors.

OP - please understand that many, possibly even most, writers here don't actually want unsolicited editing advice. If you provide comments where a writer has explicitly asked for them, then fine, go for your life, comment all you like. But for those writers that DON'T want editorial input, save your energy, save your breath, don't waste your time. They didn't want it, they didn't ask for it, they don't care, they'll just delete it. What are YOUR qualifications, anyway?

It's also clear, from your perception that moderators remove the comments, that you don't quite understand how the site works. A single editor, Laurel, quickly scans every story for basic grammar, but more so, content. There are a set of standard rejection notices, and it's completely up to the writer whether they go find an editor. Once a story gets past Laurel's cursory eye, and the story goes live, it's completely up to the Author to keep or delete comments.

Once you write something of your own here, and get the range of feedback for yourself, you might understand the writer's point of view. But until then, I suggest you keep your comment to the bare minimum, eg: "suggest you use an editor, next time."
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by electricblue66 View Post
... well, here's where we need friend Pilot to jump in with the usual spiel on vigilante editors.

OP - please understand that many, possibly even most, writers here don't actually want unsolicited editing advice. If you provide comments where a writer has explicitly asked for them, then fine, go for your life, comment all you like. But for those writers that DON'T want editorial input, save your energy, save your breath, don't waste your time. They didn't want it, they didn't ask for it, they don't care, they'll just delete it. ....
Well, I don't mind grammar and spelling comments on my stories. ANY comments are welcome. But usually by the time the story is up and live on LIT, as a writer I am DONE DONE DONE with that story and I'm already working on the next one (or half dozen). I never go back and change anything once it's posted, at that point I'm far more focused on the next story and my head is so into that I'm like, ooops, about spelling and grammar and formatting. It's useful in that I try and keep it in mind for next time, and I now have my very own volunteer editor or three who do the grammar nazi thing on me.

It's hard to find a volunteer editor that you kind of gel with (my experience) and I'm feeling rather lucky about that right now.

So for the OP, I'd suggest that rather than commenting on posted stories, where it's, sadly, usually to late, do the volunteer editor thing and jump in there and help one or two budding authors. There's usually a few of us asking for help there and far far better to help someone who genuinely needs it and appreciates it. Every little contribution helps make Literotica a better site for readers and writers, both.

And, you know, it's great that you actually felt strongly enough about it to sign up, find this forum and start a new thread on this. With that kind of motivation and interest, you actually would be a great help for some of the writers on the site.

I just wouldn't get too hung up on the comments. Some authors just don't appreciate it - we all know we make mistakes and they slip through - some care more than others. So find some authors that care and give them a helping hand - they really will appreciate it. I know I do
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scally21 View Post
On numerous occasions now comments of mine that give fair critiques with regards to spelling and or grammar have been removed.
The fact that it's been removed means that the author has seen your criticisms, so your comment has done whatever good it's going to do. Past that point, what benefit is served by leaving the criticism up?

Also, you may want to sharpen up your own grammar a little before critiquing others:

Quote:
I always allow for those who's first language isn't English but the vast majority of mistakes come from those who's first language is English. Be it via British or US English.
"Who's" = "who is" or "who has", which doesn't make sense here. The possessive of "who" is "whose". There are a couple of other minor grammatical glitches I could nitpick in your post, but I hope that's enough to make my point.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Also, you may want to sharpen up your own grammar a little before critiquing others:

"Who's" = "who is" or "who has", which doesn't make sense here. The possessive of "who" is "whose". There are a couple of other minor grammatical glitches I could nitpick in your post, but I hope that's enough to make my point.
Boom tish. And isn't that how these threads always pan out, the OP going down in a blaze of glory in his own smoke, or disappearing right up his own petard.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:24 PM   #10
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Don't forget, the OP has been a member since 2014 but chose now, to bitch about others, for his first ever post.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by EquinoxRising View Post
Don't forget, the OP has been a member since 2014 but chose now, to bitch about others, for his first ever post.
Well, as a reader, if it's something the OP cares about enough, why not and what better forum to do it in. I think what you're seeing is a very interested reader's take on our literacy ("Our" being a kind of generic-author "we"). I for one appreciate that the OP is interested enough to raise this and ask about it. I don't think anyone needs to slam him. As a reader, you don't appreciate the hell that many writers put themselves through to get a story out.

I don;t know about the rest of you but grammar and spelling is low on my list of concerns - I'm usually far more focused on the plot, characterization, dialog, scene structure and just plain telling a good hot story that gets readers off. Now I know spelling mistakes and bad grammar throws many readers out of the story so I do come back and hit those, but you know how it is. With your own work you see what you thought you wrote, not what you wrote.

But most readers without the writing experience don't appreciate that and they don;t usually realize the sheer effort that goes into a good story and how relieved we are when it's finally finished and out the door. I don't think the OP should be criticized. More educated on what it takes perhaps, and pointed in a direction where a genuine contribition can be made. It takes time to write those comments on grammar and spelling - time that's be much better spent going through something for someone else before it's submitted, rather than after when it's too late.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:50 PM   #12
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I've never removed any of the negative comments I've received against my stories, and given the vitriol I've seen written in comments about other stories the comments would have to be pretty bad for Administrators to remove them.

However I did have one comment removed from one of my stories called 'Pretty Paula's Poodle Skirts', which went something along these lines:

'A good story that you ruined by having the characters use condoms. You stupid, stupid, stupid fool this is storyland there are no babys (sic) and no VD. The cock goes up the redhead's pussy (the titular character has red hair) and he bare-backs her.'

Can posters remove their own comments, because I didn't remove it and it certainly isn't offensive enough for Administrators to do so?
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ChloeTzang View Post
Well, I don't mind grammar and spelling comments on my stories. ANY comments are welcome.
This. Absolutely. If I screwed up, even if it's just a typo, I want to know about it. It's the only way I can improve.

I once wrote a paper in college that got an A- with no other comments. I asked the professor what I could have done better, since obviously an A- means there was room for improvement. The professor flipped through the pages thoughtfully for a few minutes and then simply changed my grade to an A. I hated that. I can't get better without feedback.

scaly21, if you're reading this, I'd love to see your comments on any of my stories.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:21 PM   #14
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ICan posters remove their own comments, because I didn't remove it and it certainly isn't offensive enough for Administrators to do so?
I don't believe they can - there's no edit button (unlike here on the forums); which leaves the site overseer. Perhaps a serial pest who got their account banned. That would purge all comments left by them.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:32 PM   #15
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Banning alone wouldn't remove their comments. I have several comments from people who have removed their accounts over the years, and the comments remain, though the names vanish.

It certainly could be a serial pain in the ass that Laurel decided was deserving of having all their comments wiped out wholesale, though. The comment on your story may not have been especially offensive, but it's rude enough to suggest they may have been quite capable of upping their game.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ChloeTzang View Post
I don't think the OP should be criticized. More educated on what it takes perhaps, and pointed in a direction where a genuine contribition can be made. It takes time to write those comments on grammar and spelling - time that's be much better spent going through something for someone else before it's submitted, rather than after when it's too late.
Except the OP opened with a self-professed 'rant', thus setting the high ground from which they pontificated. We're entitled, therefore, to test the OP against their measure on all of us, and as Bramble points out, this "expert" stumbled at the first post. Thus, credibility = zero.

What value is this person's editorial advice when they're wrong in basic grammar? How many writers have in fact been given incorrect advice?

That's more the point, here. I'm usually pretty forgiving, but when someone marches in like the OP did, all guns blazing, all holier than thou, they really do need to be squeaky clean themselves. This is Fail 101.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:41 PM   #17
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Banning alone wouldn't remove their comments. I have several comments from people who have removed their accounts over the years, and the comments remain, though the names vanish.
An own account removal is slightly different. I know in the case of spamming accounts being banned, Laurel purges everything from the comment files and every PM sent by the banned account. The back office can do a total purge.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by electricblue66 View Post
.....I'm usually pretty forgiving, but when someone marches in like the OP did, all guns blazing, all holier than thou, they really do need to be squeaky clean themselves. This is Fail 101.
Having had my own ranting moments and, um, "seriously bugged"(?) a few people, as we all know, I guess I'm rather more forgiving of the rants of others coz I can empathize all too well. Do unto others, and all that ....
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:26 PM   #19
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An own account removal is slightly different. I know in the case of spamming accounts being banned, Laurel purges everything from the comment files and every PM sent by the banned account. The back office can do a total purge.
I've seen people who were banned with the same effects as a voluntary removal, though. Their story file and profile were wiped out, but their comments remained, sans names.

Spammers are a different animal from normal jackasses. The jackasses were at least here for the stories on the site, even if it was just to trash them. Spammers are only here to promote their own agenda and some other site. They get the extra effort of a full eradication by default.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:13 PM   #20
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Before making a comment, you should make sure you get your facts straight. As others pointed out, the author, not the moderators, probably deleted the comments.

I've never deleted comments, even the profane ones, and I welcome corrections to my grammar and spelling. Attentive readers have on a number of occasions pointed out errors I've made, and I appreciate them, even if their comments make me wince at my mistakes.

I would, however, take a critic a lot less seriously if the critic didn't know the difference between "who's" and "whose."
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:20 PM   #21
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Before making a comment, you should make sure you get your facts straight. As others pointed out, the author, not the moderators, probably deleted the comments.

I've never deleted comments, even the profane ones, and I welcome corrections to my grammar and spelling. Attentive readers have on a number of occasions pointed out errors I've made, and I appreciate them, even if their comments make me wince at my mistakes.

I would, however, take a critic a lot less seriously if the critic didn't know the difference between "who's" and "whose."
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:35 PM   #22
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And it's now been 12 hours since the OP made that post...

You would think that they would be peeking in every once in a while to see and respond to others comments. We'll have to see what happens over night.

The only comment(s) I have deleted are those silly one liners "More cuck shit..."

Now I have turned off comments on a (few) of my stories because of the bickering going on.

And of course the day they post is the day I find all the errors that garner me a host of comments about grammar and using the wrong word or having missing words and such.

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post

"Who's" = "who is" or "who has", which doesn't make sense here. The possessive of "who" is "whose". There are a couple of other minor grammatical glitches I could nitpick in your post, but I hope that's enough to make my point.
And not for the first time, I wish that Lit would use the version of the forum software that allows for thumbs-up on people's posts.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Zeb_Carter View Post
And it's now been 12 hours since the OP made that post...

You would think that they would be peeking in every once in a while to see and respond to others comments. We'll have to see what happens over night.
Y'all do realize that was the OP's very first post, right? In over three years, one post.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:51 AM   #25
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Just a Comment on Your (Il)literary Efforts

Quote:
Originally Posted by scally21 View Post
Perhaps the site should be called Illiterotica. I find it particularly irksome to find that moderators on this site pander to the requests of deleting and removing of comments simply to protect an author's bruised ego. On numerous occasions now comments of mine that give fair critiques with regards to spelling and or grammar have been removed. When I do give these critiques it's never done maliciously. I realise that several authors invest many hours and sometimes even their heart and soul into some of these stories and therefore I find it incomprehensible that given that, they neglect to invest a little further by having them proofread or at the very least gone over by a spell checker.

I always allow for those who's first language isn't English but the vast majority of mistakes come from those who's first language is English. Be it via British or US English.

I fully endorse removal of spiteful comments by the spineless 'anonymous'. But moderators, you should allow fair critique and perhaps even guide some of these soft centered authors to the guidance of proofreaders that this site provides.

Rant over!
1) The only "moderator" that I'm aware of that can remove a comment on the Story side is Laurel. But, the only times I am aware that has happened it has been a clear serving of spam and/or other violation of site protocol (and just decent manners) such as posting a URL to a competing site.

2) The author of the work reserves the right to accept any comment at all, much less delete undesirable comments. If quashing a comment that strikes me as little more than vandalistic graffiti on my storefront makes me a special snowflake, then I guess I'll own it, bitch (insert snaps with headpops here). I, personally, have only deleted one comment on any of my twenty-five accepted works and that because the dickhead wanted to pander their own wares in my store. "But, whateves. Like, as if."

3) Put your money where your mouth is, oh bard. Literotica.com allows for volunteer editors to offer their services to writers. Pony up and register and help out the ones over here
who are lined up and clamoring for help from beta readers, proofers, and editors. Personally, I haven't bothered since FOUR volunteer editors couldn't help me squeeze my first attempt at horrific storytelling past Mistress Laurel's whip until I took it on myself to replace two words (which were very much spelled correctly and used correctly, thank you very much). But, please feel free to hang out your shingle and help fight the good fight against "The Illiterati." (Eyeballs original post.) Uh, as much as you can, anyway.

4) If six grammatical and spelling errors pointed out in what is basically a 250 page novel is just that horribly upsetting, I will be more than happy to provide a full refund, unlike the publishing houses who have policies that will accept much worse editorial efforts. Oh, wait. I didn't make a dime, since you didn't pay to read it. Granted, you took out three hours of your busy schedule (depending on reading speed) which you will never get back, if you stuck around to read it all. But, I invested a month and a half of eight, ten, and sixteen hour days to get it as good as I did. So, I'm going to insist that's a wash. However, do feel free to point out any and all errors that you find, if such is your enjoyment in reading. Far be it from me to bash anyone for their kink. And maybe I will avoid that particular mistake in my next effort I am currently working on (again for six, eight, ten, and twelve hours per day).

5) Based on what I am reading in your post here, it's entirely possible the author of the work you commented on was doing you a favor by hiding your idea of corrections from the general public (while printing off a copy to frame and hang over their desk).

6) What you are feeling right now, OP, after reading my careful and well meaning and, ultimately, fair critique of your effort may just be more than a little familiar if you'd ever had the intestinal fortitude to create a little something from a blank screen. And left the voting and commenting options available to readers.

At any rate, counter-rant over. And may you find all the joy and peace you share with those around you as they pass through your sphere of influence returned to you three fold.
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