Etiquette at a (drinking) bar?

erotica_n_s

Really Really Experienced
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307
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I’ve been teetotal so far…

More recently, I’ve decided – maybe I should start sampling alcoholic beverages…

Not with the intention of ever getting drunk, necessarily, but just as an excuse to go to “posh” bars…

Now there’s two things I’d like advice on…

Any particular drinks that leave no smell of alcohol on the breath?
I’ve noticed that, e.g. beers seem to leave the breath smelling the sign… Now, for, uh… social reasons, I don’t want it to be obvious when I’ve had a drink… Is it true, for instance, that vodka leaves less of an odour on the breath? But then again, I understand that vodka has a higher alcohol content, so I’d probably get “drunk” quicker… so I don’t know if it’s a good idea…

What are the rules of “etiquette” when going to a bar on your own?
Some weeks ago, I went to one of these upscale bars, and everywhere, all around me, there were yuppies/mauppies chatting in groups of two, three or more… I was the only one sitting at the bar without any companion(s)… And I asked for… a coffee… and sat there for about half-an-hour, sipping it as slowly as I possibly could, and then sat there for a little while longer after having finished it… Now I didn’t get any strange looks or anything, but I felt – as someone that rarely goes to drinking venues – that I was perhaps clueless as to the etiquette at such places… There was another time, at a different bar, where I asked the bartender which end the queue started, only to have him look at me oddly and say “well… you don’t “queue” at a bar…”

Most of all, I think spending some time at such upscale social venues might just help to escape the “drabness” of the average day. I can maybe convince myself that I’m a cool man-about-town-type dude.

Sure, I live in the UK, whereas most of you guys here are North American, and I appreciate that the rules of etiquette may be subtly different… but I’d appreciate advice all the same…




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I’ve been teetotal so far…

More recently, I’ve decided – maybe I should start sampling alcoholic beverages…

Not with the intention of ever getting drunk, necessarily, but just as an excuse to go to “posh” bars…

Now there’s two things I’d like advice on…

Any particular drinks that leave no smell of alcohol on the breath?
I’ve noticed that, e.g. beers seem to leave the breath smelling the sign… Now, for, uh… social reasons, I don’t want it to be obvious when I’ve had a drink… Is it true, for instance, that vodka leaves less of an odour on the breath? But then again, I understand that vodka has a higher alcohol content, so I’d probably get “drunk” quicker… so I don’t know if it’s a good idea…

What are the rules of “etiquette” when going to a bar on your own?
Some weeks ago, I went to one of these upscale bars, and everywhere, all around me, there were yuppies/mauppies chatting in groups of two, three or more… I was the only one sitting at the bar without any companion(s)… And I asked for… a coffee… and sat there for about half-an-hour, sipping it as slowly as I possibly could, and then sat there for a little while longer after having finished it… Now I didn’t get any strange looks or anything, but I felt – as someone that rarely goes to drinking venues – that I was perhaps clueless as to the etiquette at such places… There was another time, at a different bar, where I asked the bartender which end the queue started, only to have him look at me oddly and say “well… you don’t “queue” at a bar…”

Most of all, I think spending some time at such upscale social venues might just help to escape the “drabness” of the average day. I can maybe convince myself that I’m a cool man-about-town-type dude.

Sure, I live in the UK, whereas most of you guys here are North American, and I appreciate that the rules of etiquette may be subtly different… but I’d appreciate advice all the same…

If you don't want to drink, then there is no need to drink :). Just sayin'. I know many sociable men who do not drink for various reasons and they do just fine at bars/pubs/taverns. I still meet friends at lounges and rarely drink (if at all) nowadays.

That said, a couple of answers:D

1. All alcohol have a smell. That said, unless you consume litres of the stuff, the smell usually leaves your breath in about 20 minutes, especially if you drink water with your drink or if you eat with your drink. I often have a Black Velvet if I go out for lunch and I don't smell at the end.

Also - and this is just based on experience - some people react to alcohol differently. I know that whiskeys and scotches leave a lingering smell for many, but it doesn't for me. You can smell rye on my breath for hours, even if I had a small amount. YKMV.

You can always drink mixed drinks to cut the smell: rum and coke or gin and tonic, or even a screwdriver (vodka and orange juice), and then just ask for your *insert alcohol's name here* to be shy or easy (so a rum and coke and be shy/easy with the rum); the bartender will pour less of the alcohol.

I know you didn't ask, but drinks are very much a personal taste, and you have to find something that you enjoy and make it yours.

2. Each lounge has its own etiquette system. Usually, there is no queue: you simply go up to the bar, order your drink and pay. The bar itself is the more 'sociable' place; if you want to meet people, that's where you usually do. You also should learn to talk. Talk with the bartender. Talk to the person (male OR female) waiting for their drink. Strike up an easy, non-threatening conversation. It can be anything from commenting on the game (most bars have some sort of game playing) to trying to remember who was the pilot in Original Star Trek (true story - and I was the only one who knew the answer. The guy was so grateful he bought me my drink and we still keep in touch after 10 years). The point is to be friendly and to TALK.

Sending a lady a drink is incredibly iffy. Some would be flattered, some would not, and I suggest that you don't, unless you have become a regular and well-known in the bar (the bartender can then reassure the lady that you're harmless).

Don't get drunk. Yes, it's a drinking establishment. Yes, people do get soused. But if you want to be a 'cool man-about-town-type dude', then getting sloshed is not the way to do it. Drunks make everyone feel uncomfortable.

I'm wondering if a small pub with board games might not be better suited for you. When I did my undergrad, I used to frequent a bar like that. If I wasn't studying, I'd often play a game of cribbage or backgammon with a few regulars or even the bartender if it was a quieter night. I met some incredible people there as well. I know you mentioned upscale locales, but a down-to-earth pub might be more your alley and give you a more comfortable environment. You may check out a hipster tavern for that. Most university ghettos have them and it tends to attract people of all ages and social background.

Or you may go to a place that has live music. You don't always have to talk, you're there, you can appreciate good music (hopefully it's good), and you do have a topic to discuss with a random stranger in between sets.

Instead of going to these establishments alone, would it be possible to go with a friend or a co-worker?

Be friendly, be open, be considerate and back off before you need to and you will be fine. You may have to frequent an establishment several times before the regulars warm up to you. And yes, you will have to be the one to initiate conversation. If you're expecting people to come up to you and talk to you, then you will be waiting for a long time.
 
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You don't need to grace a pub or a bar with your presence and drink alcohol just as an excuse to go. A surprising number of ladies I go to bars and pubs with often decline. So don't feel like you have to. And you certainly don't need to go to such places alone. Why don't you go to a bar that you like the look of, invite a friend or someone you like to tag along and just enjoy the atmosphere. If coffee is what you prefer, drink that.

On the other hand if you want to start trying alcohol. Well, start slow. If you are not use to it you'll find yourself on your back in next to no time. Again, having a friend with you is not a bad idea if you're going to start hitting the 'good stuff'. It takes time to develop a taste for it and your not going to like much of what you try, especially to begin with.

I was fortunate, my grandparents had a European world view I suppose, and introduced me to wine with meals at a very young age. I learnt to appreciate the taste and how it enhanced my enjoyment of meals. It's also excellent opening you up, especially if you are feeling nervous around a date. But, like most things in life, moderation.
 
Most of what fire_breeze says sounds sensible to me.

Rules that I expect are common either side of the pond (though it's a long time since I've been to the UK):

Any particular drinks that leave no smell of alcohol on the breath?

I would just forget caveats about what to mix with what and basically err on the side of a flat no, this is a myth. If you plan to drink, you'd probably best bet on smelling at least a little bit of booze, there's really no way around it, so you'll want not to have any obligations for at least a few hours afterward where that's going to be awkward.

What are the rules of “etiquette” when going to a bar on your own?

I'd recommend not drinking alone. It's best done as a social activity, not least because if you wind up accidentally "overshooting the mark" as it were -- which can sometimes happen no matter how much you try to avoid being "that drunk guy at the bar," especially if you're a neophyte drinker with low tolerance -- it's a good idea to have a buddy around who can pour you into a cab and see you safely home.

Having said this, I do occasionally go down the pub on my own to grab a quick beer and a bite. I don't generally go to "posh" bars for this purpose because on such occasions I prefer to be relaxed and not spending fifteen dollars a drink... but even in the more easygoing atmosphere of a pub it's a good general rule to not sit there taking up space and nursing a coffee or a water for hours, as this pisses off the staff. If you're in the establishment they generally expect you to be ordering at least a few drinks or a meal, something that will at least pay back the cost of bussing a table.

And no, you don't typically "queue" at a bar. You just go up to the bar and order a drink, or sit down somewhere and wait for a waitress. If you're at the bar, avoid being the dude who stands there with his money in his hand as if that's going to accelerate service, as this tends to offend bartenders.

Rules about tipping may vary. In North America it's axiomatic that you should make sure to tip a standard 20% for service unless the waitress or bartender throws a pie in your face. If you're going to be frequenting a bar repeatedly and want solid service it's usually a good idea to go 5 or 10 percent above that. This is one area where I don't feel confident talking about what would work in the UK, though.

Good luck!
 
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stop over analysing things - just do - just live life. If it feels good and you are harming no one, continue. If you are uncomfortable, stop.

From your writings here you have indicated that you have lived under social and cultural rules that you are now questioning. If you are looking for the golden answers to life stop chasing the elusive book of rules - you have them already, you don't need to look anywhere - they are hard-wired into you. Look within, trust your instincts.

Discarding one set of imposed rules for another set of imposed rules will just drain your soul. Try considering your journey to be one of self discovery. It is the imposition of rules that you are rejecting - don't dump an alternate set on your shoulders, they won't set you free.

We are mostly social creatures - just lift your head high and say "hello" with a smile and take it from there - trust your instincts.
 
NightL said:
Discarding one set of imposed rules for another set of imposed rules will just drain your soul. Try considering your journey to be one of self discovery. It is the imposition of rules that you are rejecting - don't dump an alternate set on your shoulders, they won't set you free.

Actually, I think including an attempt to learn about relevant etiquette while on your journey of self-discovery was the smart play.
 
erotica_n_s has previously written of much broader issues than the entrance to a "posh" bar.

My comment was based on observing young people rejecting the rules imposed on them - usually religion. They have been so brainwashed into believing there can only be an external set of rules to live life by. They reject one set then go on a quest for another set of rules. Spirituality, other controlling religions, fervently seeking the golden solution - when that fails along comes excesses in other areas which can include alcohol, drugs & clutching onto relationships way beyond use by dates. "I am ready to love - why don't people love me?" often totally misinterpreting casual interactions to having deeper meanings - then acting like total arseholes when rejected.

The rule of "guilt" from the first set of rules eventually pulls them back and they become part of the cycle they tried to run from.

Maybe all that running and chasing is unnecessary when all they need to do is look within - there is a set of standards built into us. Those who can not live by their internal moral compass will be fuck-ups where ever they go.

erotica_n_s's "posh" bar scenario fails to take into account - that guy over there is a douchebag, that one a sleazy creep, that woman has so many anxieties she is barely more than a blubbering puddle of mess - whose etiquette do you chase to place on your own shoulders in order to appear cool?

erotica_n_s, learn to be comfortable within yourself - be proud for what you find - be happy to be an individual. That will be so much more "cool" than trying to copy someone who is a fake anyway.
 
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I'll skip the other issues and go straight to the scent of alcohol. I can smell flavored spirits (whiskey, gin, brandy, etc) and beer and most wines for some time after someone has consumed them. (The scents are caused by volatile aromatic compounds.) Not so with clear vodka. A marketing manager told his sales staff, when entertaining customers, NOT to drink vodka, but to stick with whiskey drinks, "so they know you're drunk and not just stupid."
 
and in some societies they will sit with a bottle of whiskey each. While working at a club many years ago I watched a delegation of overseas teachers annihilate themselves in this manner. They started out as very prim'n'proper men and women.

Ha - etiquette

A marketing manager told his sales staff, when entertaining customers, NOT to drink vodka, but to stick with whiskey drinks, "so they know you're drunk and not just stupid."

...this is good
 
I'll skip the other issues and go straight to the scent of alcohol. I can smell flavored spirits (whiskey, gin, brandy, etc) and beer and most wines for some time after someone has consumed them. (The scents are caused by volatile aromatic compounds.) Not so with clear vodka. A marketing manager told his sales staff, when entertaining customers, NOT to drink vodka, but to stick with whiskey drinks, "so they know you're drunk and not just stupid."

Heh. I tried the clear vodka no-smell trick more than once in high school and got caught every time. :D

The trouble is that while most vodka is pure ethanol and water and has no distinct aromatic compounds of its own apart from the alcohol... metabolizing alcohol still produces a distinctive smell. And metabolizing vodka, which is often strongly alcoholic, produces a fair amount of that smell. Anyone with a halfway-sensitive nose can detect it.
 
or just have a glass of red wine.
it says, "I'm here to relax. come on over. split the bottle."

sometimes, when I see a man alone in the corner of the bar with his half glass of bourbon and a bead of sweat across his brow, I assume he's recovering from a very long story.
 
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Some more rookie questions (sorry folks :eek:)...

Is there any such things as a "man's" drink or a "woman's" drink?

Is a "screwdriver" a well-known combination? So, e.g., if I walked into a bar somewhere, and asked for a "Smirnoff Screwdriver" - are they likely to know what I'm talking about? (To be honest, I've never tried one, I just like the sound of the name!) And would a Smirnoff Screwdriver be a "men's" drink?


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Some more rookie questions (sorry folks :eek:)...

Is there any such things as a "man's" drink or a "woman's" drink?

Good question. I think that the lines are a lot more blurred now than when I was younger. Back then, whisky or gin-and-tonic were considered the "male drinks" and anything fruity or colorful was considered "female." Things like martinis and Manhattans were considered gender neutral. I don't think people care much anymore, at least not in urban areas of California. If you're a guy and want to order an Amaretto sour, feel free (and they're really pretty good). I don't know about elsewhere, though.


Is a "screwdriver" a well-known combination? So, e.g., if I walked into a bar somewhere, and asked for a "Smirnoff Screwdriver" - are they likely to know what I'm talking about? (To be honest, I've never tried one, I just like the sound of the name!) And would a Smirnoff Screwdriver be a "men's" drink?

Yeah, any bartender should know how to make one. Whether it's a "man's drink," see above.
 
Is there any such things as a "man's" drink or a "woman's" drink?

Yes. The rule is that if it's a form of whiskey, consumed neat or on the rocks, it's a man's drink.

Otherwise, it's a woman's drink.

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Some more rookie questions (sorry folks :eek:)...

Is there any such things as a "man's" drink or a "woman's" drink?

Is a "screwdriver" a well-known combination? So, e.g., if I walked into a bar somewhere, and asked for a "Smirnoff Screwdriver" - are they likely to know what I'm talking about? (To be honest, I've never tried one, I just like the sound of the name!) And would a Smirnoff Screwdriver be a "men's" drink?


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It's really quite simple. If a man is drinking it, it's a man's drink. If a woman is drinking it, it's a woman's drink.
 
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Call me sexist, call me insecure, call me whatever you like, but I think I'd rather start with something that is safely a "men's" drink. I mean, as it is, I'm pretty clueless about etiquette, I don't want to embarrass myself even further.

So what whiskey-based cocktails would you recommend? Or maybe I might just ask the bartender to give me "something whiskey-based"?

I'm thinking I might develop some kind of weekly ritual - I think I'll go to a particular bar once every week, make myself a familiar face, so even though I'll be there on my own, I hope the staff will grow to feel comfortable with me (as opposed to thinking I'm some lonesome oddball).

I think there's a part of me that's hoping/fantasising that somewhere I'll find a bar like Cheers, where I might meet a bunch of assorted, lovably quirky people, people I might not meet anywhere else, but people whom I can nevertheless make friends with... but then again, Sam Malone, Diane Chambers, Carla Tortelli and all the other folks are fictional characters...




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I was actually just kidding about the whiskey thing.

...

To a certain extent. ;)

But if you can afford a decent scotch, you can't go wrong with a scotch and soda.
 
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LOL... okay then...

Maybe I'll just say to the bartender, with a friendly smile - "Surprise me!!"




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This is okay to do IF the bar is just about empty AND the bartender isn't busy. Otherwise, know what you want. If you try this when the bar is busy, you're liable to end up with a shot of something from the rail, probably not the best thing to start with.

You can just be honest. "I'm not really a drinker, but I'd like to start. I like {insert preference here, tart, sweet, fruity, mild, etc.} flavours. Is there anything you can recommend?"
 
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Call me sexist, call me insecure, call me whatever you like, but I think I'd rather start with something that is safely a "men's" drink. I mean, as it is, I'm pretty clueless about etiquette, I don't want to embarrass myself even further.

So what whiskey-based cocktails would you recommend? Or maybe I might just ask the bartender to give me "something whiskey-based"?

I'm thinking I might develop some kind of weekly ritual - I think I'll go to a particular bar once every week, make myself a familiar face, so even though I'll be there on my own, I hope the staff will grow to feel comfortable with me (as opposed to thinking I'm some lonesome oddball).

I think there's a part of me that's hoping/fantasising that somewhere I'll find a bar like Cheers, where I might meet a bunch of assorted, lovably quirky people, people I might not meet anywhere else, but people whom I can nevertheless make friends with... but then again, Sam Malone, Diane Chambers, Carla Tortelli and all the other folks are fictional characters...


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Good whiskey should never be mixed with anything. Even ice is blasphemous.

That being said, a beginner is not likely to enjoy a good scotch or bourbon on the rocks, let alone neat. Luckily, there are a few whiskey cocktails you can enjoy in public while you acquire a taste for fine whiskey in the privacy of your own home.

Your first option is an Old Fashioned. Rye or bourbon, water, sugar, Angostura bitters, ice and an orange peel for garnish. This is your entry level whiskey cocktail.

Your second option is a Whiskey Sour. Bourbon, lemon juice, simple syrup and ice with a lemon wedge garnish.

Finally, you can try a Manhattan. Rye, sweet vermouth, and Angostura bitters over ice.

These are your basic whiskey based cocktails. Any bartender anywhere in the world should be able to make them. They are not the easiest to drink, but your manliness will not be questioned when you order them.

Meanwhile, get used to drinking good whiskey neat or on the rocks. It takes time, but it is the best way to truly enjoy a well-made spirit. There are few pleasures in life that exceed sipping an aged, single malt scotch. But don't go out and buy an 18 year old Macallan right away. You wouldn't appreciate the complexity of the malt. Better to start with a decent blended whiskey, like Chivas or Johnny Walker Black, and once you've acquired a taste for it branch out into the single malts.

Good luck and enjoy.
 
Do you enjoy pool or darts? The few times I do venture out on my own, I find there is a certain camaraderie among the pool tables, making it easier to meet people, especially if you can hold your own.

As for men/women's drinks, I'm glad I wasn't aware I should be worried about that because I love a good single malt Scotch. Then again I smoke cigars on occasion too, so I'm probably not a good 'girlie' barometer.

Beer is a good bet, and if you are worried about your breath, carry gum or mints, or do a shot of something minty at the end of the night. That was one of my girlfriend's tricks, she would always end her night with a shot of Dr. MaGuillicuddy's Mint schnapps.
 
LOL!

I have never been to the UK.

Over here...

If you are a straight Man I would NOT order anything with fruit in it! Nor would I order anything that looked fruity colored.

But you know a glass of Cola looks just like a glass of whiskey and Cola.

Just smile and say that you and Alcohol do not mix well. Most people will assume you mean it and respect you for having good sense!

While they have many fine beers, ale etc. & whiskeys over there.

All should be approached with caution by a novice drinker.

Myself, I have a high tolerance for alcohol.

But, If I am out drinking in a Bar, Pub or Club and am going to stay awhile I stretch a couple of beers out over say four hours.

Or my favorite Wild Turkey 101 & Coke Tall. (try it sometimes)

I can out drank probably ninety percent of the people in the world, but alcohol can be dangerous and the laws are strict here...that and I'm not nearly the fool I make myself out to be.:D
 
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I’ve been teetotal so far…

More recently, I’ve decided – maybe I should start sampling alcoholic beverages…

Not with the intention of ever getting drunk, necessarily, but just as an excuse to go to “posh” bars…

Now there’s two things I’d like advice on…

Any particular drinks that leave no smell of alcohol on the breath?
I’ve noticed that, e.g. beers seem to leave the breath smelling the sign… Now, for, uh… social reasons, I don’t want it to be obvious when I’ve had a drink… Is it true, for instance, that vodka leaves less of an odour on the breath? But then again, I understand that vodka has a higher alcohol content, so I’d probably get “drunk” quicker… so I don’t know if it’s a good idea…

What are the rules of “etiquette” when going to a bar on your own?
Some weeks ago, I went to one of these upscale bars, and everywhere, all around me, there were yuppies/mauppies chatting in groups of two, three or more… I was the only one sitting at the bar without any companion(s)… And I asked for… a coffee… and sat there for about half-an-hour, sipping it as slowly as I possibly could, and then sat there for a little while longer after having finished it… Now I didn’t get any strange looks or anything, but I felt – as someone that rarely goes to drinking venues – that I was perhaps clueless as to the etiquette at such places… There was another time, at a different bar, where I asked the bartender which end the queue started, only to have him look at me oddly and say “well… you don’t “queue” at a bar…”

Most of all, I think spending some time at such upscale social venues might just help to escape the “drabness” of the average day. I can maybe convince myself that I’m a cool man-about-town-type dude.

Sure, I live in the UK, whereas most of you guys here are North American, and I appreciate that the rules of etiquette may be subtly different… but I’d appreciate advice all the same…




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Rumple Minze is peppermint schnapps. Basically, slightly sweetened mouthwash. Gold Shlager (sp?) is similar with a cinnamon kick. Be careful with 100 proof stuff. A little goes a long way.

As far as beer or whiskey breath not as much of a problem in a bar where everything smells of alcohol.

I am on call a lot so I have to abstain those nights but can go out and socialize. There is something about having a little alcohol in your system that changes how people see you. I noticed that but only recently saw a study backing that up.

Since you are not going to run up a big tab, you can afford to be generous with staff. Not too much, so it looks try hard but figure what a regular tip is and add maybe 50%. Tip doormen, bouncers and DJs. It does not hurt to have them smiling at you like you are someone worth knowing. Make a point of talking to other men so it doesn't look like you are just there for the ladies and it makes it much easier to join in to conversations.
 
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erotica_n_s, you started this thread a month ago - how many times have you been to a pub or club in that time?

Stop over analysing absolutely everything yet continue to do simply nothing about them - you live in the UK, the land of pubs - step through the doors of one tonight.

Stop romanticising and fantasising about common everyday activities - just do them.
 
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