The Truth is Blinding, isn't it?

That's not what I said.

I said "liberal extremists" and then mentioned shows that try to be funny, and given the sad face I put up there, you could infer that I didn't find them funny at all, therefor saying, "Liberal extremists have no sense of humor about themselves."

O.k, so just so I'm clear, you differentiate between liberals who you believe have a sense of humor and extremist liberals who don't?
 
O.k, so just so I'm clear, you differentiate between liberals who you believe have a sense of humor and extremist liberals who don't?

If you can't get clear with the information you've been given, then you're being deliberately obtuse.
 
That's twice you'v just repeated what I said back to me.

I'm in an Independent, but their are a few Demos on here that are just nasty (and if the Repubs on here were just as bad a whole, I'd be giving them a hard time too, but they're not) and those Demos are the only reason I started posting on the politics board, but there is no discussion here.

I was trying to illustrate that we have a similar reaction only separated by our political opinions.

As for nasty Demos and nice Republicans here....Quite frankly the truth is there are a lot of nasty disingenuous assholes uninterested in discussion here on both sides.

This forum is not for discussions-certainly not serious intelligent or reasonable ones-its a jousting arena really.
 
I was trying to illustrate that we have a similar reaction only separated by our political opinions.

As for nasty Demos and nice Republicans here....Quite frankly the truth is there are a lot of nasty disingenuous assholes uninterested in discussion here on both sides.

This forum is not for discussions-certainly not serious intelligent or reasonable ones-its a jousting arena really.

Maybe it's because their is a Republican in the Oval Office, but it seems like the Republicans are always answering posts that attack who they are and who their leader :rolleyes: is.

When it comes down to it, I don't like Trump much, but I respect the Office of the Presidency and democracy, but democracy won't work if our two biggest parties are constantly trying to hold each other back.
 
Maybe it's because their is a Republican in the Oval Office, but it seems like the Republicans are always answering posts that attack who they are and who their leader :rolleyes: is.

When it comes down to it, I don't like Trump much, but I respect the Office of the Presidency and democracy, but democracy won't work if our two biggest parties are constantly trying to hold each other back.

Um...eight years Obama was in the oval office and we had to constantly defend him, Obamacare and pretty much all he wanted to accomplish. Before that eight years of George W. Bush in the whitehouse and you guys having to defend him the Iraq war, Afghanistan, and his role in the economic crash.

The whitehouse is made of glass no matter who from either party resides in it and at least half the county has a stone to throw. If all goes well a democrat will become the president in 2020 and you conservatives will be the one throwing stones and us liberals will be on the defense again.

The wheel turns without end.
 
Um...eight years Obama was in the oval office and we had to constantly defend him, Obamacare and pretty much all he wanted to accomplish. Before that eight years of George W. Bush in the whitehouse and you guys having to defend him the Iraq war, Afghanistan, and his role in the economic crash.

The whitehouse is made of glass no matter who from either party resides in it and at least half the county has a stone to throw. If all goes well a democrat will become the president in 2020 and you conservatives will be the one throwing stones and us liberals will be on the defense again.

The wheel turns without end.

I'm not a conservative. I agree with both parties on some issues, disagree with each on others. When a Demo is in the office, I want to see them succeed, I want to see Trump succeed, even though I shake my head on some things. But having a successful President is one of the surest ways of having a successful country. If I'm still here (not likely) when the situation changes, I'll be giving shit to whoever gives the President the most shit.

I don't believe in following a President blindly if you have well thought out and reasoned values, but I don't believe in impeding their every step with as much vigor as possible either. Even if I disagree with someone, I can see the positives even if I don't get my way.
 
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I'm not a conservative. I agree with both parties on some issues, disagree with each on others. When a Demo is in the office, I want to see them succeed, I want to see Trump succeed, even though I shake my head on some things. But having a successful President is one of the surest ways of having a successful country. If I'm still here when the situation changes (not likely) I'll be giving shit to whoever gives the President the most shit.

I don't believe in following a President blindly if you have well thought out and reasoned values, but I don't believe in impeding their every step with as much vigor as possible either. Even if I disagree with someone, I can see the positives even if I don't get my way.

Fine, you're not a conservative you're an independent. Before 2017 I would have called myself the same, but watching Trump's inauguration made me more interested in politics and I started digging and learning more and more about it and found I agree more with democrats, specifically the progressive side of the party, than Republicans-atleast the Trump supporting version dominating the GOP now-and just didn't know it before.

I'm not one to go "Respect the office" by being silent on any criticism I may have of the president. I believe its the highest expression of patriotism to question those in power when you feel they are not living up to the ideals of our founding fathers. Likewise if you believe those in power are living up to those ideals its the highest expression of patriotism to defend what those in power are trying to accomplish.

That's why I refrain from calling the conservatives here on the board racists for defending Trump's stupid wall. It may be motivated by racism or may be a legit concern for tougher immigration policy reform.
 
I'm not one to go "Respect the office" by being silent on any criticism I may have of the president..


There is a difference between speaking up against and presenting compromising ideas (which the President has to be able to bend as well) and attempting to undermine the President because you don't like him or because he is from an opposing party.
 
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When it comes down to it, I don't like Trump much, but I respect the Office of the Presidency and democracy, but democracy won't work if our two biggest parties are constantly trying to hold each other back.

I don't like Lumpy at all but I am a Conservative Constitutionalist. I believe in the Rule of Law and the principle that the President works FOR the People, so he should shut the fuck up and do as he is told like the swarmy toad he is!

Obama was pretty good, amazing considering the obstruction from Mitch and Paul. What I blame him for is his pusillanimous obsequiousness to the Chicken Hawks, yeah you Hillary!:mad:
 
There is a difference between speaking up against and presenting compromising ideas (which the President has to be able to bend as well) and attempting to undermine the President because you don't like him or because he is from an opposing party.

That's where we differ. I don't criticize Donald Trump because he's Republican or because I don't like him, personally.

I criticized John McCain and Jeff Flake for instance on their voting records, but I do like them as fellow American citizens.

I criticize Donald Trump because I feel he's taking my country in the wrong direction.

His stupid wall are steps in the wrong direction.

Tax cuts for billionaires and corporations are steps in the wrong direction.

Selling public lands for mining and fracking are steps in the wrong direction.

Deregulating wall-street and polluters are steps in the wrong direction.

Hiring heads of FCA, CFPB, and EPA solely to neutralize their ability to perform the duties those agencies were made to perform are steps in the wrong direction.

In short I criticize Trump not because he's Republican-he's not really-he's a Trumplican-in the party of whatever's best for Donald J. Trump not the GOP. Neither do I criticize because I can't personally stand the man-though that does help I admit. I criticize him because I fundamentally don't agree with his vision for America nor with the steps he takes to fulfill that vision.

Now its fair for Trump supporters to say he won in 2016 to defend his vision for America, and he did win. I'm not one of those idiots that say get rid of the electoral college. It just means we have to vote him out in 2020 to take this country back in the right direction again.
 
That's where we differ. I don't criticize Donald Trump because he's Republican or because I don't like him, personally.

I criticized John McCain and Jeff Flake for instance on their voting records, but I do like them as fellow American citizens.

I criticize Donald Trump because I feel he's taking my country in the wrong direction.

His stupid wall are steps in the wrong direction.

Tax cuts for billionaires and corporations are steps in the wrong direction.

Selling public lands for mining and fracking are steps in the wrong direction.

Deregulating wall-street and polluters are steps in the wrong direction.

Hiring heads of FCA, CFPB, and EPA solely to neutralize their ability to perform the duties those agencies were made to perform are steps in the wrong direction.

In short I criticize Trump not because he's Republican-he's not really-he's a Trumplican-in the party of whatever's best for Donald J. Trump not the GOP. Neither do I criticize because I can't personally stand the man-though that does help I admit. I criticize him because I fundamentally don't agree with his vision for America nor with the steps he takes to fulfill that vision.

Now its fair for Trump supporters to say he won in 2016 to defend his vision for America, and he did win. I'm not one of those idiots that say get rid of the electoral college. It just means we have to vote him out in 2020 to take this country back in the right direction again.

The selling of public land is one of those things I shake my head at.

Somethings I'm willing to wait and see.

On the taxes, part of the reason this country was founded was because of Taxes, and once America put in their first tax, they never looked back. Taxes are needed, but the government is always looking for ways to take more (and not fairly, but what is fair?) A person getting taxed 12% on 40,000 needs more of that 12% than someone getting taxed 37% on half a millions. How many times does $1 get taxed? When I earn it, when I spend it, and sometimes, after I've already bought something, whether through property tax or mandatory spending due to registrations, insurance, permits, etc.

And the Wall ... what's needed is uncompromising laws against felons trying to enter our country and those who commit those crimes once here (if we can imprison our own on forms of the 3 strike law, we can imprison others for just as long), better immigration education for other countries (if we can give them billions, then we can find a way to educate) and a form of 1-strike law against illegals in the country: if you don't enter legally, you don't get to be here: ever. This is broad stroke thinking, law makers would have to come up with and not fuck up the fine details, but its a step. When you make a stand, you have to make it HARD (the walls maybe too hard, but I get the point) and after you gain some regulation on the issue, then you can go back and reform it to make it more accepting, but at the start: zero compromise with Illegals until the problem is under control.
 
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The selling of public land is one of those things I shake my head at.

Somethings I'm willing to wait and see.

On the taxes, part of the reason this country was founded was because of Taxes, and once America put in their first tax, they never looked back. Taxes are needed, but the government is always looking for ways to take more (and not fairly, but what is fair?) A person getting taxed 12% on 40,000 needs more of that 12% than someone getting taxed 37% on half a millions. How many times does $1 get taxed? When I earn it, when I spend it, and sometimes, after I've already bought something, whether through property tax or mandatory spending due to registrations, insurance, permits, etc.

And the Wall ... what's needed is uncompromising laws against felons trying to enter our country and those who commit those crimes once here (if we can imprison our own on forms of the 3 strike law, we can imprison others for just as long), better immigration education for other countries (if we can give them billions, then we can find a way to educate) and a form of 1-strike law against illegals in the country: if you don't enter legally, you don't get to be here: ever. This is broad stroke thinking, law makers would have to come up with and not fuck up the fine details, but its a step. When you make a stand, you have to make it HARD (the walls maybe too hard, but I get the point) and after you gain some regulation on the issue, then you can go back and reform it to make it more accepting, but at the start: zero compromise with Illegals until the problem is under control.

The taxes are something needing someone smarter in economics than me, but from my perspective I'd say. Raise the corporate tax rate to a higher rate than 21%, Close those tax loopholes Trump said he was going to but really didn't in his huge tax cut plan, and punish companies for hiding their profits in tax havens, punish with greater taxes companies like GM or Carrier that send work to other countries so they can save a buck paying foreign workers less than American ones.

On immigration. Stop calling them rapists and murderers and MS13 criminals first off. Some maybe, but not all of them-not even the majority-are. Doing that just makes anyone saying that look like an unreasonable racist.

That said establish a policy of fair-mindedness. A steep but fair path to citizenship for those crossing the border legally at ports of entry, and a program for granting amnesty to those already here legally. Say they have by a certain date to register with ICE in order to get this amnesty. Then make it a steep climb to achieve that amnesty but one that is reasonably accheivable. Then you can step up ICE's deportation activity for those illegal immigrants that are unregistered for the amnesty program after the registration deadline passes.

All of these things should be to take control of the flow of illegal immigrants into the country knowing who they are, where they are, and how they contribute to the job market. This is opposed to Trump's and most MAGA fools' idiocy about drawing a line in the sand as the tide crashes in around them. You can't stop it. They're coming. You can't out-terrible narco-states, no matter how mean you are to them. The USA is a better option than the countries they're escaping from. So they will come and a wall won't stop them. They'll climb over it or dig underneath it, but they'll cross it.

Also look into the situation that causes these people to seek futures in the US legally or illegally. Like the Drug war for instance.
 
On immigration. Stop calling them rapists and murderers and MS13 criminals first off. Some maybe, but not all of them-not even the majority-are. Doing that just makes anyone saying that look like an unreasonable racist.

Also look into the situation that causes these people to seek futures in the US legally or illegally. Like the Drug war for instance.


He's not talking about everyone. He's talking about the ones that we need to keep out and why extreme measures must be taken now. People need to be able to separate these details for themselves. When he calls them rapists, he's not talking about the mothers bringing their children, he's talking about the rapists, the murders, the MS13 members, and like the child who ruins it for everyone, until they are taken care of, no one gets through.

At some point, people can't flee, they have to fight. When the US was made, WHITE MEN & their families (I'm going to get shit for this) were willing to die rather than flee further west or cave under the pressure of those they saw as tyrannical. The people leaving their countries, they don't want to fight, they want to be given a life. Having a life is great, its hard to give up - I get it - but if you want your children to have a future, and their children to have a future, then sometimes you have to put your future on the line. No one wants to hear that, but it's true. In this modern age where we can witness people's pain as outside observers on youtube and twitter, we just want to say, "Oh, come here, everything will be fine," but that's not how life works. You can't take everyone who wants in and expect to remain stable, it doesn't work that way.

My sympathies for countries with problems. The US has more than enough from our own people, but stay in yours and do something about it.
 
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He's not talking about everyone. He's talking about the ones that we need to keep out and why extreme measures must be taken now. People need to be able to separate these details for themselves. When he calls them rapists, he's not talking about the mothers bringing their children, he's talking about the rapists, the murders, the MS13 members, and like the child who ruins it for everyone, until they are taken care of, no one gets through.

At some point, people can't flee, they have to fight. When the US was made, WHITE MEN & their families (I'm going to get shit for this) were willing to die rather than flee further west or cave under the pressure of those they saw as tyrannical. The people leaving their countries, they don't want to fight, they want to be given a life. Having a life is great, its hard to give up - I get it - but if you want your children to have a future, and their children to have a future, then sometimes you have to put your future on the line. No one wants to hear that, but it's true. In this modern age where we can witness people's pain as outside observers on youtube and twitter, we just want to say, "Oh, come here, everything will be fine," but that's not how life works. You can't take everyone who wants in and expect to remain stable, it doesn't work that way.

My sympathies for countries with problems. The US has more than enough from our own people, but stay in yours and do something about it.

If you are right about Trump not meaning that, then he needs to communicate it better...maybe not spend so long equating all immigrants with that guy that killed that woman in South Dakota or somewhere up there I think. Maybe not spend so many minutes in his state of the union speech equating illegal immigrants with MS13 gang members. Maybe not spend so many times at those rallies railing against Democrats blocking his wall and letting rapists and criminals into the country or middle-eastern terrorists instead of the large majority being those women and children you mentioned. The problem is he paints them all with the same brush.

I'm just saying if it quacks like a duck then odds are...he's being racist or at the very least callously using MAGA people's prejudices to play to his support.

The second topic...strikes me as an "Easy for you to say" situation in a country where the police and army aren't in the pockets of the cartels. But in general I agree. The only lasting solution for those countries is for the people to wrest back control of their governments from the druglords and corrupted officials. However I doubt we'd allow it to get that far before the US sends in the troops to stabilize the country from the "Commy insurgency". (OK that might be me getting overly pessimistic about their chances there).
 
Um...eight years Obama was in the oval office and we had to constantly defend him, Obamacare and pretty much all he wanted to accomplish. Before that eight years of George W. Bush in the whitehouse and you guys having to defend him the Iraq war, Afghanistan, and his role in the economic crash.

The whitehouse is made of glass no matter who from either party resides in it and at least half the county has a stone to throw. If all goes well a democrat will become the president in 2020 and you conservatives will be the one throwing stones and us liberals will be on the defense again.

The wheel turns without end.

Have YOU ever been enrolled in Obamacare?? It doesn't fucking work. I know first hand what a piece of shit it is. If that was his best, that was 8 yrs wasted.

$15/hr min wage. I would LOVE to hear how the fuck that's supposed to do ANYTHING for the poor.

And speaking of the poor, right here in The United States of America, you want them all to live better on the gov't ride but then you want to allow a couple hundred thousand more to just walk right in and make themselves at home with the American dream, aka a Gov't Ride. And who pays for that??? People working at Mickey D's???

The problem with liberals is they never think anything through. $15/hr min wage: "Everyone will have more money, you idiot." Where does the money COME FROM?? Raise the min wage and employers raise their prices to cover the cost. In a couple months $15/hr won't buy you what $9/hr did.

Obamacare? Seriously? "Let's come up with a program where people who don't have health insurance can pay twice as much for it than they can through private programs and we'll only cover basic medical needs and charge twice as much for prescriptions as they would spend if they didn't have ANY insurance. Oh, And let's force them to change doctors too." FUCKIN' BRILLIANT!!!!

"Hey, I got an idea... Let's take all those houses that were foreclosed on when the banks FUCKED hard working Americans and give them to illegal aliens so they can have the American Dream.

You want to know why conservatives hate you?

BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING MORONS!
 
You want to know why conservatives hate you?

BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING MORONS!

I didn't want to know that. Why should I care over the opinions of deluded fools?
 
I didn't want to know that. Why should I care over the opinions of deluded fools?
You think I'M delusional??? Read my last post again. None of that is a lie. The lie is the shit your liberal leaders told you to get you to believe it.

Want to hear some more? I got a list half a mile long. Gun control, taxes, Mental health...

How 'bout Cuoma wanting stricter gun control but granting clemency to violent criminals and murderers and putting them back on the street? AGAIN!!! Want to know what happened last time he did that? One of his poster children killed two people within 24 hrs of his release. BRILLIANT FUCKIN' PLAN that was.

How 'bout the Russians? The farther this goes the more evidence surfaces to show it was Hillary all along. And your liberal media doesn't want to show it.

I'm a big fan of Bill Murray. Know what my favorite quote from him is?

"It's hard to argue with smart people. But it's impossible to argue with stupid people."
 
You think I'M delusional??? Read my last post again. None of that is a lie. The lie is the shit your liberal leaders told you to get you to believe it.

Want to hear some more? I got a list half a mile long. Gun control, taxes, Mental health...

How 'bout Cuoma wanting stricter gun control but granting clemency to violent criminals and murderers and putting them back on the street? AGAIN!!! Want to know what happened last time he did that? One of his poster children killed two people within 24 hrs of his release. BRILLIANT FUCKIN' PLAN that was.

How 'bout the Russians? The farther this goes the more evidence surfaces to show it was Hillary all along. And your liberal media doesn't want to show it.

I'm a big fan of Bill Murray. Know what my favorite quote from him is?

"It's hard to argue with smart people. But it's impossible to argue with stupid people."
Your list may be a half mile long, but it's got a few potholes.

Tell you what. Find a decent news source that supports your Russian Hillary idea, and make sure it covers exactly what violations of which laws occurred.
 
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