How does one say "I'm sorry"...

...and really, really fucking mean it? This time?


A while back... I'm not just sure when, but the store we were at was a Blockbuster Movie Rental Place...


Yes, I'm old. Shut the fuck up and here's a towel to dry behind your ears.

Any road, as I was saying, we were at a Blockbuster Movie Rental Place, renting some movies. I remember Step-Thing Number 1 was in town visiting because it was he who was pushing his mother's wheelchair. Things probably would have played out differently if I'd been the one shoving her around.


Well, as we were leaving some blonde bow bitch pulled up, slammed it in park, jumped out and ran around her car to go drop her movies in the turn in box. Completely blocking the ramp we were trying to use and were halfway down.


Now, if it had been me, I would have stood right there and just watched her. Most likely she would have done what she did without giving it a second thought.

The boy child, however, felt like he had enough room to pull off an exit. I didn't think he did and thought about stopping him. But, I decided "fuck it, if he hits the car, as long as Momma Bear isn't hurt, the egocentric cunt deserves it. And besides, we're older and have more insurance."

Well, he did have enough room and got out without so much as dinging the back bumper.


Bow bitch, having completed her mission, was coming back and saw us clearing the back end of her bitch mobile.

And popped out with "I'm sorry."

Okey dokey, then. Whatever. I didn't say a word. Love didn't say a word. Thing 1 didn't say a word. We just went on our merry way, having cleared the obstacle of a selfish bitch not having a thought in the world other than herself.

"What?! Don't people talk anymore?!" She spat.

Oh, no you didn't, bitch.

I distantly heard Love snort and tell the boy child to hold on, that this was going to take a minute as I turned and glided back over to bow bitch to explain a few things.


First on the agenda was saying, "I'm sorry" does not make a damn thing okay. It does not erase a hurt, even so small of one as the minor inconvenience she had caused. You're still an asshair and the hurt still exists. And especially if you knew damn well that you were being an asshair and chose to do it anyway!


Second, saying "I'm sorry" in no way, shape, form, or fashion requires the one that you say it to to actually accept the implied apology. There is, or should not be, any requirement on my part to tell you that it's alright that you are an asshair who decided that my world was not as important as your own.

Third, if you don't mean it, don't bother saying it. For damn sure not to stroke your petty little ego that what you did wasn't that bad with some meaningless exchange of "I'm sorry," "that's alright" when it very clearly was not alright, or else why are you saying "I'm sorry" in the first damn place?

As memory serves, that was about the point she managed to slip through the driver's side door and sped away, nearly running over my foot. Hard to blame her really since she'd had an accident and the front of her too short short-shorts were wet.

But, seriously!

Why the hell even say it if you don't actually mean it? And if you do mean it, then what the hell does it matter if I don't accept it? So, you no longer mean it since I don't accept it? What were you apologizing for anyway? That you were acting like a little wad of toilet paper stuck to an ass hair, a "dingleberry?" Or that you allowed me to see that you are one?

And for fuck's sake! How in all that is holy or hellish am I ever supposed to believe your dinky little "I'm sorry" when you turn around and do the same damn thing to me again... and then say "I'm sorry" again. And then do it again. And then say "I'm sorry" again. Jesus H. Christ on a crutch, if you are really all that fucking sorry, stop fucking doing it!


Any road, it's been on my mind for a bit lately. Can't really point a finger at anything specifically that caused me to think of it.

Yep, I'm dimly aware of a weenie roast going on, but I don't think that would have sparked it.

Yes, I did have an exchange with someone dear to me which involved them doing something remarkably similar to something they have done time and again and saying "I'm sorry." But, nah. I gave up fundamentally changing her and accepted her the way she is months ago, so I don't think that was it either.


I don't know. Maybe it has to do with reliving some of my past and feeling some guilt about some things I did to someone who is no longer here to apologize to. And I'm just wondering if I could have, should I have? Would I have really meant it? Would it have changed anything? Would I have changed?


Or will I do the same sorts of things somewhere down the line if I ever am fortunate enough to find someone willing to accept all this fabulousness? (*belch*-excuse me-*fart*.)

Maybe it's just channeling my inner pansy and listening to fucking Chicago...


What the fuck ever.


Any road, maybe I should apologize for getting full of piss and vinegar again and posting another long-winded diatribe. But, nah. I don't really mean it. And I know I'll probably do it again. So what would be the point in saying "I'm sorry?"


But, I'll shut the hell up now. And if anyone has some thoughts on apologizing and really, really, really meaning it this fucking time, I'll be glad to hear them.

And maybe, just maybe, she saw what she had done without fully registering that she had done it, and it was a genuine apology - they do happen, you know. Just saying.

Perhaps saying sorry means different things in different countries:

https://www.australia.gov.au/about-...ople/apology-to-australias-indigenous-peoples

A single word can have a powerful meaning, sometimes.

electricblue66 said:

And maybe, just maybe, she saw what she had done without fully registering that she had done it, and it was a genuine apology - they do happen, you know. Just saying.

Perhaps saying sorry means different things in different countries:

https://www.australia.gov.au/about-...ople/apology-to-australias-indigenous-peoples

A single word can have a powerful meaning, sometimes.

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Heyla, EB!

Thanks for stopping by and pausing to fill me in.

I'm afraid in the particular scenario I cited, I have some trouble seeing just how she might have meant it. I mean, perhaps if she hadn't then tried to yell at us for not verbally acknowledging her apology...


Any road, thanks!

(And good to see you out of the AH. Although I think you're supposed to be working on a Summer Story AND an Australia story for Chloe? [And don't say you're sorry!])

Interesting. I have a friend who has 'perfected' apologizing, unfortunately, so much so, that, to me, it seems insincere. 'I'm sorry I upset you. I'm sorry I forgot (whatever was forgotten). I'm sorry (whatever the latest offence was). It just rolls off his tongue so easily, I have difficulty believing it is sincere. He always says it is, but frankly, it's not much better than not apologizing. My issue, not his though. He truly is sorry. He just makes an effort to make amends so frequently (although always over a different issue) that it seems insincere.

I am actually sorry for not checking back before now. I've been a little busy trying to cough up a lung since shortly after I responded to EB and am just now able to sit up comfortably and get on here long enough to respond.

(Not to mention certain persons that still prefer not to acknowledge their claim in open forum that I think are contemplating using a club if the head smacks hadn't worked to get me to at least take it easy if I wasn't going to allow myself to be carted away by a bunch of white-jacketed jackasses that need to go ahead and fly south for the winter and stay there.)

Any road, a particular thanks to one individual who for her own reasons PM'd her response, but didn't allow me to respond in kind. You know who you are, and I'll abide by your wish to remain nameless. But, sincerely, thank you for the time and effort behind your response. And I do cherish it for the gift it is.

So, now that I've embarrassed the hell out of two people, despite obviously not mentioning their names or anything...

Rainshine said:

I've had occasion to feel remorse and express it lately, and also I feel I am deserving an apology that will never come. It's a topic close to home that kind of bites on a number of levels. Still, I think it is a good topic and an important one, and deserving of a reply and consideration by all sorts of Litsters.

So... the art of saying sorry.

I don't know that it is an easy thing for anyone, much like goodbyes. I think for it to be genuine you have to be prepared for the fact that it may not be accepted and that is how it may need to be. No matter how heartfelt or truthful, your apology just may be too late or too little and you need to accept that that may be the case and go into it with the expectation of nothing in return. In the case of your "blonde bow bitch",Puck,, she had expectation of forgiveness and when it didn't come out came the sass.... fuck her. She should have accepted it and moved on.

I think to truly feel remorse and be apologetic you have to be able to self-reflect and acknowledge how you affected a person and be understanding of what you actually did wrong by them. If you're not be ready to acknowledge that/hear that and/or truly try to understand it - then it will just be hollow words that mean nothing, and I'd rather not hear them, because you're only saying them to make yourself feel better.

Sorry is a small but powerful word, when sincere can make the difference between lingering ill feelings and healing, but sometimes it's also just a word that means nothing because it's backed up by nothing at all.

Having said all that^ sometimes you don't need an apology to forgive a person. Sometimes it is enough to accept a person for the absolute shit stain they are, forgive yourself for falling for it, and just move right along.

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Thank you, Rainshine. I hear you and see what you are saying.

Yeah, I have to admit that when I've had occasion to think of the specific scenario I cited over the two or two and a half decades since it happened, one of the things that have worried me from time to time was if I overreacted. In my defense, it was the sass on the heels of already being an egocentric little thing and popping off what then turned out to be, I thought, a meaningless apology that set me off.

And... Well... I will neither confirm nor deny that I may or may not have already been spending eight hours of each work day trying to hammer home a little thought for other people into the boneheads of little punk thugs locked in a "rehabilitative" facility.

So, it is entirely possible that I had some issues of my own.

I do agree with you that just as acceptance shouldn't be necessary to consider an apology, so an apology shouldn't be necessary to consider forgiveness. Although, personally, I typically have an easier time forgiving someone else than I do myself. But, that's probably fodder for a whole different thread by someone a whole shit ton smarter than me!

wicked woman said:

Interesting. I have a friend who has 'perfected' apologizing, unfortunately, so much so, that, to me, it seems insincere. 'I'm sorry I upset you. I'm sorry I forgot (whatever was forgotten). I'm sorry (whatever the latest offence was). It just rolls off his tongue so easily, I have difficulty believing it is sincere. He always says it is, but frankly, it's not much better than not apologizing. My issue, not his though. He truly is sorry. He just makes an effort to make amends so frequently (although always over a different issue) that it seems insincere.

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Valid points, Wicked_Woman. And one I may very well be guilty of.


While I was working for that place I spent a great deal of time and money on therapy to forget about, a perennial issue was legal. And one of their major concerns, as silly as it may seem, was the use of "sorry."


Specifically, it was a favorite tactic of a local snake in lawyer's clothing to latch onto the phrase "I'm sorry" in any given incident in an attempt to attribute fault, and thus a hefty financial penalty. I honestly couldn't hazard just how many meetings, lectures, memos, pieces of training, and whatnot on the subject I was required to attend over the decade before I regained my senses and decided there had to be a better way to spend my life. Such as, perhaps, mucking out sewer lines.

So, perhaps I do spend too much time and effort thinking about it. And perhaps even polishing out the rough edges.

I don't know though. I can't help but think that a certain amount thought into how to make sure I don't make that particular mistake again is almost certainly a factor in the concomitant sincerity of the apology, isn't it?

Any road, thank you, ladies, for taking the time to articulate your thoughts on the subject for me. I sincerely do appreciate the insights.

PuckIt said:

Any road, maybe I should apologize for getting full of piss and vinegar again and posting another long-winded diatribe. But, nah. I don't really mean it. And I know I'll probably do it again. So what would be the point in saying "I'm sorry?"

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I love your long winded diatribes!!! Anyways I think in this case it wasn't so much the lazy ' I'm sorry' this lady threw out, but it was the complaining afterwards, considering she was already in the wrong in the first place. If she'd just said I'm sorry quickly and left that would have been the end of it.

As for apologizing and really meaning it...i find waiting till all emotions have calmed down, then planning something really nice for that person (making them dinner, long walk in the beach, something personal etc.) And ending the event with your apology and plan on how you're not going to do said thing again.

Hope that helps!

And if the person isn't here anymore, and this may sound kind of morbid, but try the same thing, just do it with yourself, and maybe write your apology in a letter etc. Maybe...

JaneRamsey said:

I love your long winded diatribes!!! Anyways I think in this case it wasn't so much the lazy ' I'm sorry' this lady threw out, but it was the complaining afterwards, considering she was already in the wrong in the first place. If she'd just said I'm sorry quickly and left that would have been the end of it.

As for apologizing and really meaning it...i find waiting till all emotions have calmed down, then planning something really nice for that person (making them dinner, long walk in the beach, something personal etc.) And ending the event with your apology and plan on how you're not going to do said thing again.

Hope that helps!

And if the person isn't here anymore, and this may sound kind of morbid, but try the same thing, just do it with yourself, and maybe write your apology in a letter etc. Maybe...

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Actually, JaneRamsey, you saying that makes me feel a trifle less morbid. Because, yes, the person in question is my deceased wife. And I actually have written out several emails and sent them to her email address. Probably actually more often than I've posted in my "Give a Fuck" thread.

Any road, as far as actually enjoying my long winded meanderings... you know you can talk to them about tweaking your medication, right? Teasing. Sincerely, thank you. I admit I often wonder if just the sheer length of my ramblings might not be offputting for most.

And I do very much agree with you that the best timing for an apology is probably not in the heat of the moment while passions are still running high. Then again, I've already admitted I probably am a little overanalytical on this topic. But, thank you for taking the time to pitch your nickel in for me!

PuckIt said:

Any road, as far as actually enjoying my long winded meanderings... you know you can talk to them about tweaking your medication, right? Teasing. Sincerely, thank you. I admit I often wonder if just the sheer length of my ramblings might not be offputting for most.

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Next time they open the window to my padded room I'll ask them about that

But really though your posts and story submissions are some of my favorites. They're heartfelt and honest and most importantly HILARIOUS.

Especially your April Fools submission!

Hi, you don't know me but I have a few experiences with people saying sorry, including my own.

I train in a martial art, and over a few weeks someone I was training with who is junior to me was struggling with an exercise we were practicing over a few weeks and everytime they got it wrong they said "sorry". I kept telling them to stop apologising. when we wnet to the 2nd dojo for some cold refreshment after we were talking about this and it transpired that this was them working on changing their behaviour to improve and get better.

this was my turn to apologise and we gained a better understanding of each other.

the point being that while people may seem like they over apologise but sometimes they are just trying to make themselves better and trying to show you this is the case.

of course I have plenty of experiences where this isn't the case but the lesson I learned was to not be so dismissive of someone who apologises a lot without understanding if they are actually trying hard to change.

BigBadBadger said:

Hi, you don't know me but I have a few experiences with people saying sorry, including my own.

I train in a martial art, and over a few weeks someone I was training with who is junior to me was struggling with an exercise we were practicing over a few weeks and everytime they got it wrong they said "sorry". I kept telling them to stop apologising. when we wnet to the 2nd dojo for some cold refreshment after we were talking about this and it transpired that this was them working on changing their behaviour to improve and get better.

this was my turn to apologise and we gained a better understanding of each other.

the point being that while people may seem like they over apologise but sometimes they are just trying to make themselves better and trying to show you this is the case.

of course I have plenty of experiences where this isn't the case but the lesson I learned was to not be so dismissive of someone who apologises a lot without understanding if they are actually trying hard to change.

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Thanks for dropping by and feeding in and giving me your nickel's worth, BigBadBadger.

And I will now pause and try to figure out if you might have been one of my myriad martial arts instructors... 'Cause damn that sounded familiar. However, I don't think you're quite that old.

Any road, yes. You have a valid point, that in the case that you cited, a student was actively trying to improve and was apologizing to you, the instructor, that he was not getting it right as yet.

However...

However, I would posit that even in this scenario, if the student was not actively making an effort to get better, it would negate the apology.

To take it out of the dojo for a moment...


If, for example, a friend consistently will be late for, or even completely forget about, an appointment with you. Yet, they say they are sorry. And you, of course, forgive them. Because that is what a good friend does.


Still, I don't see where it is bad or harmful to call "bullshit" if they do then continue to do the exact same thing with no visible improvement. I typically don't as I tend to accept my few friends the way they are. But, I admit that from time to time, I do have to bite my tongue to keep from commenting after the three hundred and forty-second time they've had me sitting around with my thumb up my ass.

And since I haven't seen my false teeth in years, biting my tongue is a neat trick indeed!

Any road, thank you BigBadBadger for your input.

PuckIt said:

Thanks for dropping by and feeding in and giving me your nickel's worth, BigBadBadger.

And I will now pause and try to figure out if you might have been one of my myriad martial arts instructors... 'Cause damn that sounded familiar. However, I don't think you're quite that old.

Any road, yes. You have a valid point, that in the case that you cited, a student was actively trying to improve and was apologizing to you, the instructor, that he was not getting it right as yet.

However...

However, I would posit that even in this scenario, if the student was not actively making an effort to get better, it would negate the apology.

To take it out of the dojo for a moment...


If, for example, a friend consistently will be late for, or even completely forget about, an appointment with you. Yet, they say they are sorry. And you, of course, forgive them. Because that is what a good friend does.


Still, I don't see where it is bad or harmful to call "bullshit" if they do then continue to do the exact same thing with no visible improvement. I typically don't as I tend to accept my few friends the way they are. But, I admit that from time to time, I do have to bite my tongue to keep from commenting after the three hundred and forty-second time they've had me sitting around with my thumb up my ass.

And since I haven't seen my false teeth in years, biting my tongue is a neat trick indeed!

Any road, thank you BigBadBadger for your input.

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of course my example comes with the caveat that you do notice that they are trying to improve eventually if someone is going to change and they aren't showing the signs of improvement, maybe having a quiet word is the right thing to do.

as a suggestion though, maybe phrase it a bit softer the first time than just calling "Bullshit" (unless that is the kind of relationship you have with your friend)

as I think we are discovering, there are so many potential new facets to this whole thing.

Also I'm fairly certain that I would not have been your instructor at any point as I barely qualify for that now

Puck, You should know by now that a portion of the humans living are irredeemable pieces of shit. To expect anything from them beyond their stench only serves up frustration. Thus, it is your own unrealistic expectations that bring the discomfort...yes? To loose temper and try to "cure" such people only leads to more discomfort. Wherever possible, bend like the grass under the wind knowing that this "thing" is of virtually no importance in the bigger picture.

In the end, it is the remembrance of our own poor response to such people that haunts us...when they drag us into the swirl of their foulness we too become fouled.

yukonnights said:

Puck, You should know by now that a portion of the humans living are irredeemable pieces of shit. To expect anything from them beyond their stench only serves up frustration. Thus, it is your own unrealistic expectations that bring the discomfort...yes? To loose temper and try to "cure" such people only leads to more discomfort. Wherever possible, bend like the grass under the wind knowing that this "thing" is of virtually no importance in the bigger picture.

In the end, it is the remembrance of our own poor response to such people that haunts us...when they drag us into the swirl of their foulness we too become fouled.

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Speaking of... one of us needs to check our boots. And since I don't wear anything while I'm sitting here at the keyboard...

Heyla, Yukonnights! It's good to see you back around these hallowed halls.


And yes, you know me well enough to know that I typically do tend to be more earth than fire, wind, or water. But, I also think that was an anomalous occurrence. And I think more because, as I mentioned after Rainshine's post, I was at the time doing some work with the ... *ahem*... egocentrically disadvantaged.

Any road, thank you for stopping by and feeding in with my little side project!

It sounds like she was a really selfish person. My read is she wasn't saying sorry because she was truly sorry, but because she was performing. She showed her selfish self for what she was by blocking a ramp. She probably got some dirty looks for it, so she did the performance sorry to get out of the consequences.

The 3 of you were supposed to be the adoring audience she was playing to and when you didn't respond to absolve her, she was embarrassed by her own actions and needed more attention.

People who are in the wrong often project onto those who they have wronged. She was the one being anti-social by blocking a ramp. She in turn accused you 3 of being anti-social when you didn't absolve her quick enough for her liking.

You know what gets me. The ones that offer a faux apology and then just hammer on what YOU did to deserve whatever they did.

If you do that, then just how sorry can you really be?

When I moved to the town I now live in (the latest in a long line of new towns to call "home"), people automatically assumed two things, I'm a new yorker, and, as such, I was in incapable of saying "I'm sorry." The alternative being "excuse me" instead, which doesn't mean they are sorry at all.

While they are technically correct on the first premise, they are dead to rights wrong on the second assumption ...sort of.

Most people in NY are assumed to be 1) Jewish, and 2) afraid of getting a tan (oh, and that 3) all NY'ers are loud mouths). My mom was lily-white Irish, and the best I can hope for is getting a nasty burn in 15 minutes out in the sun. As for being Jewish, well, let's say not within five generations. It was a shocker when I found out I had some Jewish blood in me, but so residually small as to be surprising it was there. However, I have lived far more outside of NY than inside it. In point of fact, while I won't deny that NY'ers are generally opinionated, Most NY'ers tend to keep their yaps shut with their opinions. It was only after many years living in the South, that I became "loud mouthed."

New Yorkers are capable of saying "I'm sorry" but more commonly say "excuse me." To many there is no difference between the two statements, aside from a Steve Martin routine where "excuse me!" was an insincere punchline. To a New Yorker, there is a great deal of difference.
"I'm sorry" is either something said to express sympathy, or to admit fault. That latter being the biggie. New Yorkers really don't want to admit fault, if they can help it. As an alternative, they say "excuse me."
"Excuse me" can be used to ask pardon for intrusion, a request for clarification, or where one isn't sure if one is at fault. For instance, when you're on a crowded sidewalk, you're turned to your friend with whom you are talking, and you bump into someone you didn't notice. Were you at fault or they? In NY, both parties would normally just say "excuse me" and be done with it. Both recognizing that a line was crossed, but signifying they aren't sure who was at fault.

Now, in that instance, one might say that the person not looking in front of them is at fault, but if the other person was looking ahead of them, and they still allowed the bump to occur, then one might ask, why didn't they try harder to avoid it? There are people like that in NY, who bump into someone else, purposefully, because THEY shouldn't need to move aside (think HUGE ego). In truth, the NYer who wasn't looking ahead would be at fault and might offer "I'm sorry" instead. However, sometimes you are looking ahead of yourself and someone else bumps into you. It's New York. It's crowded. People bump into each other all the time, and most try not to act like little kids over it.

Alternatively, as a New Yorker, I have a view on others saying "I'm sorry." Frequently, we hear "I'm sorry" in other states, where it seems they feel "excuse me" is rude to say. Frequently, I hear "I'm sorry" which is not meant sincerely, or at least, it's said so frequently, that it can't possibly have a sincere feeling behind it. New Yorkers are rarely insincere. Obnoxious, placating, sarcastic, yes, but they telescope their feelings plainly. So, insincere? No, far from it.

Does that mean there are no used car salesmen in NY? Sure, plenty, but those are the type that load you down with so many add-ons that you don't notice the loop-hole where they don't mean what they seem to suggest.

Ah, hell. I just noticed this was a revived dead thread. After writing all this out, if you don't like it that I still posted it, then I'm sorry.

Acktion said:

You know what gets me. The ones that offer a faux apology and then just hammer on what YOU did to deserve whatever they did.

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that's a form of "gaslighting" isn't it?