the marks of a slave

"I don't like telling people what to do," he said. "I'd rather manipulate you into doing what I want."

And he returned the orgasms he'd been withholding for months.

I'm impressed.

eastern sun said:

And then there's the sex.

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eastern sun said:

And he returned the orgasms he'd been withholding for months.

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I've been thinking to say something about the whole power exchange and sex ... but it is still eluding me. I'll get back to it.

rida said:

I've been thinking to say something about the whole power exchange and sex ... but it is still eluding me. I'll get back to it.

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It's a big topic. It's hard to know where to start.

Regarding orgasms . . . I have only ever been able to have an orgasm through masturbation or power exchange. It's funny, because it means that either I am totally in control of what's happening or not. No grey areas. No in-between. No give and take. (Granted grey areas and give-and-take occur during power exchanges, but the foundation is laid, the parameters are defined, and the mind is tuned to a certain setting. And without tuning my mind to that frequency, I can't cum. Once it's there, though, I don't even need physical stimulation.)

So it's easy for him to control my orgasms. He doesn't really enjoy "pleasuring" me, so he doesn't play the orgasm denial game during sex. Instead he either gives or takes away masturbation, or - even more effectively - increases or decreases the force of his dominance.

Many of the men I have loved turn their sexual dominance on and off, withholding it or granting it according to their wishes. I know in my husband's case that it is completely conscious and manipulative, but as I've watched both him and others I've wondered why they don't hold steady.

One of the single most exciting moments for me is the experience when someone I'm sexually interested in asserts their dominance through eye contact, physical gesture or tone of voice. It completely melts me, softens whatever resistance I might have in play, leaving me utterly wiling and eager to do whatever I can to stay in that position.

I still vividly remember the first moment my husband did it. We were really good friends, and I knew he was attracted to me, but I was being very cautious. We were standing in the kitchen of a stranger, and he just looked at me. We all call it "the look." But what is it really?

I felt like I was being pinned and penetrated by his eyes. I was completely exposed. The space within me opened (and any resistance I'd felt just didn't exist anymore). All I wanted to do was ride the wind along the channel he'd just created into him. I've been his ever since.

He knew what he was doing.

I've watched others do the same thing. And it gets me every time.

eastern sun said:

Many of the men I have loved turn their sexual dominance on and off, withholding it or granting it according to their wishes. I know in my husband's case that it is completely conscious and manipulative, but as I've watched both him and others I've wondered why they don't hold steady.

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I can't speak for him, but there are a coupla reasons in my case. First off, it takes effort, both mental and emotional. Some days you don't feel like burning the mojo. Some days you just don't have it in you. It was a long day, you're sick, whatever. Secondly, consistency becomes predictability, and that leads to boredom. You may love filet mignon, but if you have it every night, it becomes just another hunk of meat.

And the last reason is the simplest of all. What good is choice if you do not exercise it? That is the primary difference in our respective roles in this dynamic. I chose. Choosing to not forcefully act out my role is my privilege. The s does not have that option.

Homburg said:

I can't speak for him, but there are a coupla reasons in my case. First off, it takes effort, both mental and emotional. Some days you don't feel like burning the mojo. Some days you just don't have it in you. It was a long day, you're sick, whatever. Secondly, consistency becomes predictability, and that leads to boredom. You may love filet mignon, but if you have it every night, it becomes just another hunk of meat.

And the last reason is the simplest of all. What good is choice if you do not exercise it? That is the primary difference in our respective roles in this dynamic. I chose. Choosing to not forcefully act out my role is my privilege. The s does not have that option.

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You and he are cut from the same cloth.

Though I wonder how he would actually answer the same question, I have always thought this was why.

And it leads to my second point about sex and power exchange, especially as it is played out over a period of many, many years.

Most of the time it has nothing to do with what I want at all. And I don't particularly enjoy it.

eastern sun said:

You and he are cut from the same cloth.

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I consider that a compliment. Thank you.

Sex has very little to do for me with my being a submissive and my being in power exchange relationship(s).
Or rather, my own sexual satisfaction is nowhere in the picture. Not directly at least. Or not in any apparent way, not even to me.

I used to be able to cum very easily and very fast. But as I'd be totally turned off from sex once done, I learned to take longer until it got to the point that it does now take forever unless I'm masturbating. Somehow I cannot seem to go back on my own.

With Hubby, D/s started in the bedroom to spice things up. I did not get more turned on nor did my own orgasm get any better/frequent/stronger. At first me cumming was part of the "play" but it got to a point where I'm left hanging almost every single time. Most of the time I don't care and if I do he does not deny my taking things into my own hand. Rarely, he will deny me, just for the hell of it.

Right after I discovered I could be multi-orgasmic, he enjoyed some forced orgasm sessions, but they can take a lot of time and energy, so as soon as the novelty wore off, they are practically gone.

It seems I cannot let go of control when it comes to that single part of my being. The good thing is that it is not something that bothers nor Hubby nor the Sadist. The bad thing is that it is starting to bother me.

I've been telling myself that my own orgasms are not important in my D/s dynamics and I still believe that. But, part of me is starting to want to experience the "great sexual release" that many talk about in connection with power exchange sex.

And the fact remain thought that I wish I could offer my own orgasm to my Dom(s). But it is hard to offer something that they will need to work hard for getting.

(On a related but different note, I'm starting to toy with the idea of trying my hand at Domination. And if I need to be in control to be able to enjoy sexual relief, then I'm going to see if I can pursue it on the other side of the power equation.)

Homburg said:

I can't speak for him, but there are a coupla reasons in my case. First off, it takes effort, both mental and emotional. Some days you don't feel like burning the mojo. Some days you just don't have it in you. It was a long day, you're sick, whatever. Secondly, consistency becomes predictability, and that leads to boredom. You may love filet mignon, but if you have it every night, it becomes just another hunk of meat.

And the last reason is the simplest of all. What good is choice if you do not exercise it? That is the primary difference in our respective roles in this dynamic. I chose. Choosing to not forcefully act out my role is my privilege. The s does not have that option.

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He agrees with you.

rida said:

Sex has very little to do for me with my being a submissive and my being in power exchange relationship(s).
Or rather, my own sexual satisfaction is nowhere in the picture. Not directly at least. Or not in any apparent way, not even to me.

I used to be able to cum very easily and very fast. But as I'd be totally turned off from sex once done, I learned to take longer until it got to the point that it does now take forever unless I'm masturbating. Somehow I cannot seem to go back on my own.

With Hubby, D/s started in the bedroom to spice things up. I did not get more turned on nor did my own orgasm get any better/frequent/stronger. At first me cumming was part of the "play" but it got to a point where I'm left hanging almost every single time. Most of the time I don't care and if I do he does not deny my taking things into my own hand. Rarely, he will deny me, just for the hell of it.

Right after I discovered I could be multi-orgasmic, he enjoyed some forced orgasm sessions, but they can take a lot of time and energy, so as soon as the novelty wore off, they are practically gone.

It seems I cannot let go of control when it comes to that single part of my being. The good thing is that it is not something that bothers nor Hubby nor the Sadist. The bad thing is that it is starting to bother me.

I've been telling myself that my own orgasms are not important in my D/s dynamics and I still believe that. But, part of me is starting to want to experience the "great sexual release" that many talk about in connection with power exchange sex.

And the fact remain thought that I wish I could offer my own orgasm to my Dom(s). But it is hard to offer something that they will need to work hard for getting.

(On a related but different note, I'm starting to toy with the idea of trying my hand at Domination. And if I need to be in control to be able to enjoy sexual relief, then I'm going to see if I can pursue it on the other side of the power equation.)

Click to expand...

I will be curious what you discover, rida.

Since most of our days are not spent having sex, as an activity it comprises only a small part of our relationship. The M/s dynamics on the other hand, which are based on D/s sexual desires, infuse everyday activities with sexual energy.

When I am consciously holding these dynamics in mind, my body responds sexually to the textures and rhythms and sounds of my day-to-day world. I find myself breathless while doing dishes, driving my car, shopping. I can feel the flush in my face and the rush of heat and energy throughout my body while I'm folding laundry. I enjoy the way people respond to me on the street. I feel attractive and exciting. And the mundane becomes unpredictable.

That's one reason why I choose a relationship like this one. Though there's no guarantee once I give up control that I'll enjoy everything that occurs sexually, I do experience sexual pleasure in the relationship.

Obviously there are times when I have to change my attitude. Bringing sexual energy into certain everyday activities can cause difficulties, but over time I find that I can be a bit more skillful in how I manage that energy. When I first started, I was wildly inappropriate at times, and it shook my confidence. I had to learn how to control myself, and I had to learn how to fit into the many different circumstances of the world.

And that goes to what I feel is your point, rida. There are real issues of power and control in play in these relationships. Giving control to someone else does not mean that you stop having to control yourself. In some ways, (in many ways I would suggest,) you have to have even greater control and self-restraint in order to actually succeed in giving the other what s/he wants.

On the other hand, holding too close control of yourself does not allow you to give control to the other. One of the hardest things for me to learn during sex was how to let go of the control of my body in order to orgasm while still retaining enough control to follow orders. Or how to move fluidly from one state to the other.

Bondage, and any other kind of restraint, helps because I can let go of myself within it. But I can get very self-protective within restraints when my arms are held behind my back, because I fear for my aging shoulders. In casual sex, too, my husband is much more likely to ask me to restrain myself than go to the trouble of props and rope.

Intense physical sensation (pain) helps because I can abandon myself to it's urgency. But as soon as I begin to resist and it becomes pain, again I want to protect myself. Sometimes, with the right timing, orgasms are my mind/body's response to the escalation of painful sensations, but how my mind is tuned is key. If, even for a moment, I begin to resist, the possibility for sexual pleasure and release vanishes and it's just a matter of endurance.

And that's the other reason I choose this relationship. I love playing with this overactive mind of mine. And I love even more when he plays with it.

The mindfuck.

Central to my experience of sex and the power exchange are the mindfucks - the manipulation of my perceptions of what is occurring so that I no longer trust my own interpretations and have to let go of them completely.

What does that mean practically? In its simplest forms, it's when the boundaries between role-play and reality start being blurred. And I find myself physically in the position that was initially presented as an imagined state.

In its more complex forms, it's when I look back on my actions over a long period of time and see his influence over my behavior - ways in which resistance was broken down over time by methods I couldn't perceive but obviously reacted to subconsciously - and I find myself acting out his fantasies without having been told overtly what to do, frequently crossing lines I had drawn around myself as I defined to myself the "things I wouldn't do."

I don't know that everyone would enjoy feeling manipulated like that. But I really do. I like being outsmarted. It impresses me, and keeps me on my toes. Add the sexual dimension and a deep abiding trust and I fall in love.

One problem with the mindfuck. Reality is never exactly what I imagined it would be. Sometimes it is so mind-bendingly beautiful, I can't believe that I avoided it for so long. Sometimes it hurts in ways I could never have anticipated and all I want to do is retreat back into the fantasy again.

With the power exchange in place, where I go is up to him.

a dose of logic

I wrote this back in September 2007. But I need to remember it today.

"to devote oneself is to give time to something, to commit oneself and one’s effort in a certain activity to a certain end.

so devotion necessarily requires sacrifice, for in giving time in one place, we always end up not doing something else.

devotion requires choice.

so we choose. we are devoted to our children. our friends. our work. our hobbies. our god. our selves.

but what if you can’t choose?

what if you hate the idea of sacrifice?

what if you want to walk all the paths?

what then?

the place of devotion is empty. the piece of our soul that longs to commit grasps at straws and calls them beams. flimsy and weak, it slips and drowns and clings again. and slips and grasps and clings and slips. and our world is rocked by the emotional waves of hope and fear that are never grounded in the steady application of our devotional will.

so. . .

I still don’t like the idea of sacrifice. but I’m afraid if I avoid these choices, I will end up sacrificing myself without knowing why."

I was thinking about mind fucks the last time you posted. I absolutely get the appeal. It's something I find very intoxicating, but also chaotic. And I have a strong need for stability in my life. On the other hand, there's a fine line between stable and boring, so I know a little bit of that does me good. Do you feel like there is chaos in your life?

intothewoods said:

I was thinking about mind fucks the last time you posted. I absolutely get the appeal. It's something I find very intoxicating, but also chaotic. And I have a strong need for stability in my life. On the other hand, there's a fine line between stable and boring, so I know a little bit of that does me good. Do you feel like there is chaos in your life?

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Sometimes, yes. And I have worried about the effect on our kids. Kids need stability, and we have both significantly altered our behavior for their benefit.

The way it's shaped now, we have a pretty stable family structure and strong routines that keep everyone grounded. Within that structure though, there are some intense emotional energies flowing. Since the kids seem to act out repressed conflicts and tensions, it's strong incentive for us to try to keep all the channels of communication clear. Kids (and their parents) can handle some chaos, but only if it's surrounded by a lot of positive feedback, emotional support and honest recognition of what's going on.

I had a childhood marked by a mixture of chaos and structure. I've sometimes thought that I should have "worked through" this emotional stuff by now, and therefore be able to offer real stability to my children. I've also thought that maybe this is how I'm working all that out, because in choosing this role as "slave," I am so much more present in their lives than my mother and father were in mine. (Maybe it would be better for them if I were less present , but so the pendulum swings.)

In some ways, I thrived on chaos when I was young. I felt alive and strong, because my adrenalin would kick in and my mind would clear and I could act decisively and with certainty that I could influence whatever situation I found myself in. As I've grown older, I've discovered the weakening effects of that chronic adrenalin rush. I've grown more comfortable with stability and stillness.

I'm very curious what will happen when our kids grow up and leave the house. Will we return to our old ways? (We often grow excited just thinking about the opportunities that will return.) Or will we have aged into something altogether different?

To be clear, I don't think that an overly rigid structure is healthier than chaos. I have to really watch my desire for that. It's difficult to strike a healthy and happy balance.

eastern sun said:

I will be curious what you discover, rida.

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me too

Since most of our days are not spent having sex, as an activity it comprises only a small part of our relationship. The M/s dynamics on the other hand, which are based on D/s sexual desires, infuse everyday activities with sexual energy.

When I am consciously holding these dynamics in mind, my body responds sexually to the textures and rhythms and sounds of my day-to-day world. I find myself breathless while doing dishes, driving my car, shopping. I can feel the flush in my face and the rush of heat and energy throughout my body while I'm folding laundry. I enjoy the way people respond to me on the street. I feel attractive and exciting. And the mundane becomes unpredictable.

That's one reason why I choose a relationship like this one. Though there's no guarantee once I give up control that I'll enjoy everything that occurs sexually, I do experience sexual pleasure in the relationship.

*snip*

And that goes to what I feel is your point, rida. There are real issues of power and control in play in these relationships. Giving control to someone else does not mean that you stop having to control yourself. In some ways, (in many ways I would suggest,) you have to have even greater control and self-restraint in order to actually succeed in giving the other what s/he wants.

On the other hand, holding too close control of yourself does not allow you to give control to the other. One of the hardest things for me to learn during sex was how to let go of the control of my body in order to orgasm while still retaining enough control to follow orders. Or how to move fluidly from one state to the other.

Bondage, and any other kind of restraint, helps because I can let go of myself within it. But I can get very self-protective within restraints when my arms are held behind my back, because I fear for my aging shoulders. In casual sex, too, my husband is much more likely to ask me to restrain myself than go to the trouble of props and rope.

Intense physical sensation (pain) helps because I can abandon myself to it's urgency. But as soon as I begin to resist and it becomes pain, again I want to protect myself. Sometimes, with the right timing, orgasms are my mind/body's response to the escalation of painful sensations, but how my mind is tuned is key. If, even for a moment, I begin to resist, the possibility for sexual pleasure and release vanishes and it's just a matter of endurance.

And that's the other reason I choose this relationship. I love playing with this overactive mind of mine. And I love even more when he plays with it.

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Indeed. Most of daily life has nothing to do with the act of sex. But as you say, it can be infused with sensual and sexual undertones, by keeping the dynamic on the forefront of consciousness.

Because our marriage started out without a power exchange dynamic it is very hard for me to put myself in such a mind frame. Or rather, my acceptance of the power imbalance and of my need for submission has brought me to accept the inequality of house chores and duties that I used to resent. It also brought the acceptance of the fact that I was to be sexually available to him no matter what. But it has not brought on any extra sexual undercurrent in my daily tasks.

I understand what you say about handing control not meaning stopping to have control on yourself. I think I'm more on the camp that holds her own control way too tight.

Having my power taken away with force is not something I need for my PYL to exercise his Dominance. I'm more of a compliant pyl by nature. "Free slave" is a phrase that just came to mind to define myself: I give up the power, but ultimately not the control, at least not on my body.

Control, I feel, needs the be actively pursed by the PYL to be achieved. Hubby right now is not interested. With the consequence that I feel I'm slowly reclaiming my power back.

I'm probably splitting semantic's hair by making a distinction between power and control, but it is the best way I can try to express my thoughts at the moment.

eastern sun said:

Sometimes, yes. And I have worried about the effect on our kids. Kids need stability, and we have both significantly altered our behavior for their benefit.
*snip*

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I strive to give them balance and stability. And due to life circumstances right now I have to be the pillar of our family.

As a consequence, or perhaps as part of my nature, I'm now deeply craving freedom and unaccountability with a touch of chaos thrown in as a spice.

So going back to the above point, I'm reigning back my power. With some unpleasant consequences on the marital D/s dynamic. (Hubby is a capricious Master that wants the power when he wants it, and I'm having a hard time relinquishing it back, even for the short time is demanded of me.)

It is just that I can't be the pillar while giving up the power the way he wishes.

intothewoods said:

To be clear, I don't think that an overly rigid structure is healthier than chaos. I have to really watch my desire for that. It's difficult to strike a healthy and happy balance.

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Yes, I agree with you, especially when you're prone (like I am) to extremes. Trying to find balance while still exercising these polarities can be really challenging.

rida said:

I'm probably splitting semantic's hair by making a distinction between power and control, but it is the best way I can try to express my thoughts at the moment.

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I confess to loving semantics. And I think your distinction between power and control is relevant.

Power in its generic definition means the ability to accomplish something. I don't ever feel like my power has been lessened by this choice of relationship. In fact, my husband can't stand it when I stop taking actions and just wait passively for him to tell me what to do.

Control, on the other hand, refers to the channeling, direction, and even restraint of that raw power. That's where it gets tricky. Because most frequently, he wants me to control myself and act according to his guidelines, with periodic episodes in which he wants me to completely abandon myself to whatever forces are in play and trust that he'll be steady at the helm.

As I mentioned earlier, it takes such will to act according to his guidelines, that I can become over-controlling of not only myself, but everything around me, even while my objective is to relinquish control.

I've also gotten caught on the other side of that horned dilemma. In an effort to check my own controls, I relinquish decision-making, and (without micromanagement) act aimlessly without clear direction. It works fine if I'm simply cleaning house or walking in the woods, but it often leaves problems unsolved, allowing them to escalate.

Like you, we are sometimes in situations where there is more than one dominant. In sexual circumstances, he finds the wrestling for control that can take place in that situation very exciting, and actually enjoys his loss of control. For he is as powerless over my sexuality as I am over his. When that happens, asserting his ownership rights becomes extremely important to him.

And sometimes the other dominant force in the equation is our son.

P.S. I love your spicy touch of chaos! It seems to offer just the right amount of danger to the family scene. Thank you for the image.

eastern sun said:

I confess to loving semantics. And I think your distinction between power and control is relevant.

Power in its generic definition means the ability to accomplish something. I don't ever feel like my power has been lessened by this choice of relationship. In fact, my husband can't stand it when I stop taking actions and just wait passively for him to tell me what to do.

Control, on the other hand, refers to the channeling, direction, and even restraint of that raw power. That's where it gets tricky. Because most frequently, he wants me to control myself and act according to his guidelines, with periodic episodes in which he wants me to completely abandon myself to whatever forces are in play and trust that he'll be steady at the helm.

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I'm glad you do

It is interesting that your definition of both power and control are from an internal perspective.

My definitions focus more on the external connotations.
Power: having power, being in a position of power.
Being the one that gives orders, have the last word on a decision, gets his/her way, is obeyed, does not have to compromise.

Power does not express anything about the person's worth or value. Is something you have, not something you are.

What you define as power, I call it capability, ability, skills; and no, they do not diminish by being a slave, and yes, I would expect a Master to want his slave to be a highly capable individual and to put such abilities at good use.

Control is the active exercise of power, the taking over of any independent will and of the ability of choosing independent actions. It still does not take away the capability of a slave to be a functioning person. It is just that the action, reactions, directions are dictated by someone else, in a sort of conditioned and inevitable way.

That is why I came up with the Free Slave definition: I give up the power (hence slave) but I retain the control (hence free).

Like you, we are sometimes in situations where there is more than one dominant. In sexual circumstances, he finds the wrestling for control that can take place in that situation very exciting, and actually enjoys his loss of control. For he is as powerless over my sexuality as I am over his. When that happens, asserting his ownership rights becomes extremely important to him.

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Hubby has wanted me to loose my control in a (vanilla) sexual situation. I think he is excited by the concept you just describe, "to wrestle for that control". He has enjoyed and loved asserting his ownership rights on me when I got home from such dates. As such my vanilla dalliances has been more for his entertainment than mine, although I do not deny enjoying the sex (the only way I get "plain" sex is in such situations, LOL).

My seeing the Sadist though falls a bit outside the above. Early on he would reassert his ownership but making sure to add his own markings to my body, one way or the other. But the fact that it never developed into a strongly sexual relationship (not at least in the way Hubby defines it), it has never really provided him with much thrill.

Circumstances are such that the vanilla dalliances have dried up, both because of a lack of time and my desire to spend more time with the Sadist.

And this gets to the core of my current struggle: how do you keep the proper mind frame, do not reclaim your power back, and keep being submissive when the Dominant part of the equation is in no position/place/desire to do his part?

rida said:

And this gets to the core of my current struggle: how do you keep the proper mind frame, do not reclaim your power back, and keep being submissive when the Dominant part of the equation is in no position/place/desire to do his part?

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I've been in that situation, and my solution was to go internal. Work from the inside. I'd still find myself reclaiming power, especially in situations where I had strong preferences and opinions, but I was much more likely to respond properly when he wanted and/or was ready to reassert himself.

Early on, those times actually reinforced my position as "slave." Since there was no immediate reward for my submission in visceral sensations of dominance, (and once or twice I pulled the "how can I submit if you don't dominate me" card out of my hand - to no avail), I had to accept that he could do whatever he damn well pleased. That was his right and all I could do was submit to his will.

It was frustrating to the part of me that really wanted "rewards" and some kind of reciprocation of "equivalent value." But in the long run, it has also been a lesson worth learning. Because the rewards and equality (or lack thereof) that I perceive in my relationship today seem more honest and less self-centered than in my old way of seeing things.

eastern sun said:

I've been in that situation, and my solution was to go internal. Work from the inside. I'd still find myself reclaiming power, especially in situations where I had strong preferences and opinions, but I was much more likely to respond properly when he wanted and/or was ready to reassert himself.

Early on, those times actually reinforced my position as "slave." Since there was no immediate reward for my submission in visceral sensations of dominance, (and once or twice I pulled the "how can I submit if you don't dominate me" card out of my hand - to no avail), I had to accept that he could do whatever he damn well pleased. That was his right and all I could do was submit to his will.

It was frustrating to the part of me that really wanted "rewards" and some kind of reciprocation of "equivalent value." But in the long run, it has also been a lesson worth learning. Because the rewards and equality (or lack thereof) that I perceive in my relationship today seem more honest and less self-centered than in my old way of seeing things.

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Thank you for the above words.

I've been mulling them over in my head, but I guess I need to let them sink into my heart.

As my husband's wife, I am his submissive first and foremost (I do not mean to say that all wife's are their husband's submissive). The fact does not change weather he exercise his Dominance or not.

I proudly believed I had already learned that lesson. It looks like I'm still a long way from it.

rida said:

As my husband's wife, I am his submissive first and foremost (I do not mean to say that all wife's are their husband's submissive). The fact does not change weather he exercise his Dominance or not.

I proudly believed I had already learned that lesson. It looks like I'm still a long way from it.

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Different people express Dominance differently. Sometimes when I'm interacting with more than one dominant, I can't help but compare them and how they make me feel.

When I first started playing with other people, my husband enjoyed watching me jump to others' demands, and encouraged me to look for other dominants. We played a mean game in which we focussed on all the ways I was favoring others over him. Though he enjoyed the experience, unfortunately, it also allowed me to focus on all the ways he was disappointing me.

One of the biggest things that disappointed me were the long periods of time in which he was just a regular guy. I would compare those moments to the brief encounters I was having during which anyone I met was in uber-space. Without question, I could see that spending more than an evening or an afternoon with these other guys would definitely challenge their stature as uber-doms, but since I wasn't spending all that time with them, I could focus on the intensity of the experiences we were sharing and expand them in my mind to huge proportions.

And, in truth, I have had many more of those uber-experiences with my husband than with any of those other guys (as well as a lot more companion-in-life, fellow-traveler, business-partner, co-parenting type experiences).

It was hard for me not to fixate on my disappointment with him, though. And I had to talk to myself all the time to remind myself that I had given him the power to define it anyway he chose. (I thought that meant he would always be the Dominant. But it doesn't. . . And, it does.) It means that I have to actually submit to his will, even when it radically changes over time.

And, if it helps at all, I can say that - at least in my husband's case - dominant personalities remain dominant over time. They just morph and change like everything else. There's no guarantee that the things you loved in the relationship will remain forever . . . and that you won't discover other things that you like just as much.

rida said:

As my husband's wife, I am his submissive first and foremost (I do not mean to say that all wife's are their husband's submissive). The fact does not change weather he exercise his Dominance or not.

I proudly believed I had already learned that lesson. It looks like I'm still a long way from it.

Click to expand...

I also think you're coping with difficult circumstances right now, rida. It seems like a very challenging time.

eastern sun said:

I also think you're coping with difficult circumstances right now, rida. It seems like a very challenging time.

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Agreed.

rida said:

Thank you for the above words.

I've been mulling them over in my head, but I guess I need to let them sink into my heart.

As my husband's wife, I am his submissive first and foremost (I do not mean to say that all wife's are their husband's submissive). The fact does not change weather he exercise his Dominance or not.

I proudly believed I had already learned that lesson. It looks like I'm still a long way from it.

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I have read recently, about successful long term relationships, that in the tough times you need to be willing to remake your love for that person. I just want to say that I really admire your love and devotion for your hubby, rida.

eastern sun said:

Different people express Dominance differently. Sometimes when I'm interacting with more than one dominant, I can't help but compare them and how they make me feel.

When I first started playing with other people, my husband enjoyed watching me jump to others' demands, and encouraged me to look for other dominants. We played a mean game in which we focussed on all the ways I was favoring others over him. Though he enjoyed the experience, unfortunately, it also allowed me to focus on all the ways he was disappointing me.

One of the biggest things that disappointed me were the long periods of time in which he was just a regular guy. I would compare those moments to the brief encounters I was having during which anyone I met was in uber-space. Without question, I could see that spending more than an evening or an afternoon with these other guys would definitely challenge their stature as uber-doms, but since I wasn't spending all that time with them, I could focus on the intensity of the experiences we were sharing and expand them in my mind to huge proportions.

And, in truth, I have had many more of those uber-experiences with my husband than with any of those other guys (as well as a lot more companion-in-life, fellow-traveler, business-partner, co-parenting type experiences).

It was hard for me not to fixate on my disappointment with him, though. And I had to talk to myself all the time to remind myself that I had given him the power to define it anyway he chose. (I thought that meant he would always be the Dominant. But it doesn't. . . And, it does.) It means that I have to actually submit to his will, even when it radically changes over time.

And, if it helps at all, I can say that - at least in my husband's case - dominant personalities remain dominant over time. They just morph and change like everything else. There's no guarantee that the things you loved in the relationship will remain forever . . . and that you won't discover other things that you like just as much.

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It is perhaps hard to believe but I have never compared my two Dominant's styles or "Domliness", both because they are in two totally different domains and levels (one being a Sadist and the other more of a Sensualist), but mostly because the two relationships are just different both in scope and time I can dedicate to them.

Yes, I might notice and get upset or dissatisfied with Hubby's shortcoming, but that is just part of a growing relationship and never for a moment I felt that I could get what I do not get from Hubby from someone else. Only Hubby can provide what Hubby can provide. If it makes any sense.

I just found out that it has been (and it is) more Hubby that compares himself with the Sadist and believes I don't need his style of Dominance. What came out from a discussion I had with him is it has been him that has not seen himself as Dominant due to lack of "Domly" activities. While I realized that deep inside, as I wrote above, submissive is just the way I am and feel within the marriage and it does not need any specific actions.

eastern sun said:

I also think you're coping with difficult circumstances right now, rida. It seems like a very challenging time.

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Thank you.

intothewoods said:

Agreed.

I have read recently, about successful long term relationships, that in the tough times you need to be willing to remake your love for that person. I just want to say that I really admire your love and devotion for your hubby, rida.

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Thank you.

"Remake your love" is quite an interesting image.
For how cheesy as it may sound, never for a moment I've stopped loving Hubby. Many time I did not like him, and a couple even hated him, but I've never stopped loving him.

But it is true that I/we need to give it a new shape and form, if I/we are really going to integrate and accept our polyamorous desires and allow them to take a real-life form, rather than a theoretical one. Of course, as it would have not been hard enough with an outside vanilla dynamic, I had to fall for another Dominant ...