johneb87
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No, I think he was shot in the head when Merl attacked the Governor's people with the walkers. His father was with the Governor's attack on the prison then killed by the Governor.
Calling All Walkers... Dinner Is Served
- Thread starter SecondCircle
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No, I think he was shot in the head when Merl attacked the Governor's people with the walkers. His father was with the Governor's attack on the prison then killed by the Governor.
Cruel2BKind
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No... The sam that they found in the upper level of the house. The kid with the dislocated arm, his girlfriend had a badly healed broken leg and got et by the walkers.
johneb87
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LOL, and that just proves how much I care about new characters this season, not enough to learn their names.
As far as we know, yes. But who knows why he didn't show up. And he had Rick's watch, so no excuse for being late. 
SecondCircle
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I didn't get to watch either... until today. Phew. I had to avoid the thread until I could watch, though sadly I didn't get to see Chris Jericho and Talking Dead. Bummer.
I definitely thought Rick was planning something with Carol, and I like how it was handled, by the show and by Rick. He dealt with the problem without bloodshed, though I'm interested to see what the group with have to say about it, or what he'll tell them. The truth? That she was killed? That she left? That she did it (killed and burned two people)? I'm guessing with the latest disease going on, they'll likely be more caught up with that, all except for These, who will no doubt still demand answers.
I like to see the characters out in the world, scavenging and what not. It's a nice change of scenery. And I like little tidbits of humanity peeking through from the devastation they come across, like the father at the garage and those pictures on the wall. I dunno it just makes the show more than just what people stereotype it as "just zombie killing". It shows human emotion and remorse for all that has been lost, and adds a layer of drama to the world. There really is rich story here, whether people view these "zombie" shows as just another tired trope full of gore... or not.
The alcoholism hit me pretty hard. That he would fight the walkers for his bag that held the booze, the bag that should have held medicine. Yet another thing that highlights humanity. The very real flaws that people still carry with them. I know how he felt, both with the decision to take that alcohol and fight for it, and how ashamed and guilty he felt after... and still struggles with the addiction even after.
Anyway, love where the characters and the show is going. Carol is gone, and I wouldn't have said it first season, but I think I will miss her. She's grown so much as a woman, even if it led her to make a questionable decision. And there's always chances for her character to loop back in. The Governor? Who knows. Michonne is sticking around, though I suspect that her calling of her search will herald a Governor sighting before long. When we least expect it too.
I didn't catch the rock thing with Daryl. I saw him with it, but I didn't notice him saying anything bout it. Hmm. I'll have to watch that part again.
Eh... thoughts or rebuttals?
sheablue
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Wow. I just watched last night's episode. What a good show!
I really hope that Carol is not gone for good. She had turned into such a foil for Rick, she had gotten so strong and practical and cold, and the one who had to make the hard decisions, whether others would have agreed with her or not. Kind of a Shane character, against Rick's desire to maintain as much humanity in their little civilization as possible. I really like Carol's character, her growth, and I hope she'll be back.
And Talking Dead was so much better this week! Chris Jericho was a good guest.
I really hope that Carol is not gone for good. She had turned into such a foil for Rick, she had gotten so strong and practical and cold, and the one who had to make the hard decisions, whether others would have agreed with her or not. Kind of a Shane character, against Rick's desire to maintain as much humanity in their little civilization as possible. I really like Carol's character, her growth, and I hope she'll be back.
And Talking Dead was so much better this week! Chris Jericho was a good guest.
PennLady
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I saw one spoiler in the thread before I posted, "Carol is gone." However, that meant I expected Carol to be killed in a walker attack, and since she wasn't, the moment still packed a lot of impact. For Talking Dead -- does your cable service have On Demand? We can get it there if we miss it. And yes, Jericho was far more lucid -- Hardwick's word, I think
-- than Manson.This was one of the big topics on Talking Dead. I'm not sure about telling the truth -- then he has to tell everyone what she did, and that could cause a big rift about whether she should have, whether Rick should have acted unilaterally, etc. It could even cause multiple rifts. Tyreese would be mad, I imagine, that Rick didn't let him at her. Daryl would be mad because a) he liked Carol and b) might agree with her. And so on.
And if Rick doesn't tell the truth, then there's a lot of potential for drama if/when she comes back.
It was an interesting gray area, because I think most of us could sympathize with Carol and understand her actions. Rick said they might have lived, but given all the blood we saw on the floor, I have a hard time believing that. And I think Carol made a comment to the effect that they were dead or almost dead. They had to be pretty out of it, at least, for her to drag them to that little yard.
Oh I agree. I like seeing the little pictures of what was. It's like instant archaeology or something. Did anyone notice the upside down numbers on the gas station sign? In Talking Dead, they noted that the letters -- 4, 3, 7, 7 upside down -- spelled out "hell." I totally didn't notice.
And the little tidbits also keep the characters grounded a bit, I think. Those reminders of what was before keep them, I think, from completely leaving that life behind. They can't keep all of it, of course, but they kind of keep it in mind as a bit of hope, a talisman almost.
Yeah, my dad told me he just doesn't see the appeal of shows/movies like this. And I told him, well, yeah, zombies aren't very interesting -- it's the people.
I thought I saw Bob put a few bottles of pills in his bag, but I guess not. And I did figure he had something in his bag; when he wouldn't let go, I figured it had to have booze -- or even some kind of alcohol product for the school -- in it. And that's another instance where I think we can all sympathize. In a world gone to hell, who wouldn't want to escape?
Carol may be the best-developed character over the course of the show other than Daryl. Daryl is like her mirror image in some ways. He was dominated by his brother and echoed a lot of his views, but when Merle was gone, he came into his own. He accepted that there was a different way to live and he took it. Carol did much the same; instead of continuing as she had been before her husband died, she also grew and took responsibility.
And who was luring walkers with the rats!
He said something about the rock being jasper, I think, but I missed the rest of it.
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SecondCircle
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I got the impression that Carol didn't find the two bleeding already, but that she "took care of them" herself, causing that blood, then dragged them outside and burned them. Now I know it showed that in Rick's vision or whatever it was, and that may not be the case, but that's kinda what I thought before it showed that. I thought that Carol, trying to contain the disease before it spread, knifed their skulls. That makes it a tad bit more extreme to think of what she decided to do. Meh, oh well.
I did notice the "hell" sign. It kinda stood out to me cuz I noticed the numbers were upside down. Cool little touch. Actually that in itself was a kind of human tidbit like I was talking about. Or the "pardon our dust" on the station wagon.
A while back I posted a thread that wasn't too well received about (bear with me) a game that had a similar concept and the same level of drama and storytelling as TWD. On your long perilous trip across the devastated United States, you come across these little pieces of humanity, both good and bad. I remember walking into someone's abandoned apartment building and seeing a message scrawled on the wall. Can't remember exactly what it said, but it was to the effect of "Karen, I'm sorry." At which point you see the guy who took his own life. You'd find notes that people left for one another or sent back and forth, providing little snippets of story through the crisis. I remember another scrawled message on a wall written with a bloody hand that said, "Had to leave, keep the kids safe." A message from one spouse to another perhaps? Even creepier, right below that "keep the kids safe" part, another message had been added, apparently by a member of one of the immoral survivor groups. It read "don't worry buddy we'all take good care of her" or something like that.
Ah. Anyway. I just like when the world or the setting of the story is completely "ambient" so that it does more to immerse you. The Walking Dead succeeds well with this.
I did notice the "hell" sign. It kinda stood out to me cuz I noticed the numbers were upside down. Cool little touch. Actually that in itself was a kind of human tidbit like I was talking about. Or the "pardon our dust" on the station wagon.
A while back I posted a thread that wasn't too well received about (bear with me) a game that had a similar concept and the same level of drama and storytelling as TWD. On your long perilous trip across the devastated United States, you come across these little pieces of humanity, both good and bad. I remember walking into someone's abandoned apartment building and seeing a message scrawled on the wall. Can't remember exactly what it said, but it was to the effect of "Karen, I'm sorry." At which point you see the guy who took his own life. You'd find notes that people left for one another or sent back and forth, providing little snippets of story through the crisis. I remember another scrawled message on a wall written with a bloody hand that said, "Had to leave, keep the kids safe." A message from one spouse to another perhaps? Even creepier, right below that "keep the kids safe" part, another message had been added, apparently by a member of one of the immoral survivor groups. It read "don't worry buddy we'all take good care of her" or something like that.
Ah. Anyway. I just like when the world or the setting of the story is completely "ambient" so that it does more to immerse you. The Walking Dead succeeds well with this.
Cruel2BKind
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Me and a few friends have a joke.
During the episode 'clear' from the last season, there was a guy in an orange backpack who ran after the car, and then got eaten by the walkers because no one stopped for him.
We joke because some of the characters were being so frustrating. My friend Jena was crying when we saw orange backpack guy's guts on the road. We joked because OBG brought more tears with 3 minutes of screentime than all of the other characters combined. I totally agree with you when you laud the background details. Sometimes they are the BEST part of this show.
Cruel2BKind
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One thing I'm kinda starting to miss...
They used to always have something poignant or dramatic to start the music. Now it just sort of starts.
Like in the 'Clear' episode, they just stopped to get the car out of the mud, and the OBG comes down the road, screaming for help, and then, under the desperation and the sound of the car starting up, you just hear the music slowly coming in and it just gives you goddamn chills.
nanananananana
Now, it's just like, 'okay, five minutes have passed, play the theme'.
Tiny tiny complaint, but I'm gonna complain.
They used to always have something poignant or dramatic to start the music. Now it just sort of starts.
Like in the 'Clear' episode, they just stopped to get the car out of the mud, and the OBG comes down the road, screaming for help, and then, under the desperation and the sound of the car starting up, you just hear the music slowly coming in and it just gives you goddamn chills.
nanananananana
Now, it's just like, 'okay, five minutes have passed, play the theme'.
Tiny tiny complaint, but I'm gonna complain.
PennLady
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I was thinking the following -- when Patrick was ill, he was leaving bloody footprints, not just wet ones. IIRC, he was leaving bloody footprints on his way into the shower area. Plus there was talk about how the pressure built up and that's why there were bloody streaks on the faces -- the blood burst out through the eyes, nose, etc. So I wondered if people cut and bled more easily in general.
I do figure that Carol knifed them in the head at some point. Whether that was to kill them, or after they died to prevent them becoming walkers is obviously unclear.
I agree. I think those little details and reminders add a lot to the show.
Cruel2BKind
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bam bam BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I was actually getting a wee bit bored in this episode. During the talky bits. Except for the other doctor, I really didn't know any of the folks that got killed this episode. It made me really sad when that one guy accidentally shot the non-bitten woman. That has to suck.
We've been talking about all of those 'little touches' that basically make the show, but there are very few of those little touches to be found in the prison. Other than the sweet chalk mural that some of the kids drew on the wall.
Who doesn't want to be there when Rick has to tell Darryl about Carol?
I was actually getting a wee bit bored in this episode. During the talky bits. Except for the other doctor, I really didn't know any of the folks that got killed this episode. It made me really sad when that one guy accidentally shot the non-bitten woman. That has to suck.
We've been talking about all of those 'little touches' that basically make the show, but there are very few of those little touches to be found in the prison. Other than the sweet chalk mural that some of the kids drew on the wall.
Who doesn't want to be there when Rick has to tell Darryl about Carol?
SecondCircle
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I think, while I too was growing a bit restless watching the opening, that this episode really exploded. Its a small piece of what we've been waiting for. The "new" virus or sickness has begun to break loose, and a lot of hell ensued. I was really concerned when the bleeders started to walk and Hershel was by himself in there. Up till that point, I'd forgotten he was a cripple. That whole scene was so tense.
The little girl (crap what was her name) showed a bit of courage and cleverness by goading the breathing tube zombie along with her, buying time and creating a distraction. A big thing to ponder on is the kind of world those kids have to grow up in. To the adults who remember the time before when the world was right, the world is a ruin they are trying to make the best of. To those kids, that's the norm. To the kids down the road, living with the walkers and fighting to survive every step of the way through strife and terror will be their "norm".
The fences had to give sooner or later, and they can't hold forever. I think Rick has finally kind of come to terms with (what I said above) that while it is his every aim to protect his child, Carl will always be in danger. "But its my job to try." Exactly. Rick nailed it. But I think in this episode that tossing Carl an AR and allowing him to help with the more "dangerous" tasks, Rick is beginning to accept that his boy is growing up fast in a dying world. Its a great relationship, one that delves deeper than just zombies yelling, "Brrraaaaiiinnnsss".
All I can say is I'm glad the random drugs they gathered on that run are helping. I mean, I might have missed a piece so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Doc and Hershel weren't exactly sure what would do the trick, but that if there was medicine that could help, it'd be there.
Gawd! I can't wait for that Rick and Daryl chat. I think that even if Daryl does see the logic in what Rick did exiling her, it doesn't mean he's gonna like it. He'll probably either support Rick mournfully (doubtful) or understand but despise the result or the way it was handled. And of course there's still Tyreese. (Someone please correct that spelling). We didn't see much of that group (as we didn't see the prison last week) so we mustn't forget how unstable Tyreese will be. Do they tell him? It'll have to come out eventually. Powder Keg awaiting a flame I think.
Oh and uh... Tha Govnah! I mean really? Was anyone surprised to see him lurking around the fences? I saw that through my eyepatch. Questions, questions, questions. All we need now are those answers. Should be fun.
The little girl (crap what was her name) showed a bit of courage and cleverness by goading the breathing tube zombie along with her, buying time and creating a distraction. A big thing to ponder on is the kind of world those kids have to grow up in. To the adults who remember the time before when the world was right, the world is a ruin they are trying to make the best of. To those kids, that's the norm. To the kids down the road, living with the walkers and fighting to survive every step of the way through strife and terror will be their "norm".
The fences had to give sooner or later, and they can't hold forever. I think Rick has finally kind of come to terms with (what I said above) that while it is his every aim to protect his child, Carl will always be in danger. "But its my job to try." Exactly. Rick nailed it. But I think in this episode that tossing Carl an AR and allowing him to help with the more "dangerous" tasks, Rick is beginning to accept that his boy is growing up fast in a dying world. Its a great relationship, one that delves deeper than just zombies yelling, "Brrraaaaiiinnnsss".
All I can say is I'm glad the random drugs they gathered on that run are helping. I mean, I might have missed a piece so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Doc and Hershel weren't exactly sure what would do the trick, but that if there was medicine that could help, it'd be there.
Gawd! I can't wait for that Rick and Daryl chat. I think that even if Daryl does see the logic in what Rick did exiling her, it doesn't mean he's gonna like it. He'll probably either support Rick mournfully (doubtful) or understand but despise the result or the way it was handled. And of course there's still Tyreese. (Someone please correct that spelling). We didn't see much of that group (as we didn't see the prison last week) so we mustn't forget how unstable Tyreese will be. Do they tell him? It'll have to come out eventually. Powder Keg awaiting a flame I think.
Oh and uh... Tha Govnah! I mean really? Was anyone surprised to see him lurking around the fences? I saw that through my eyepatch. Questions, questions, questions. All we need now are those answers. Should be fun.
soflabbwlvr
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No, it's pretty clear that she knifed them before they were dead. Otherwise, what's the issue? If they were dead, then no trust was violated, and no one had any reason to question her actions. If they were dead, knifing them would have been mandatory.
No, he specifically told them to bring back antibiotics. He explained that pet meds were the same as people meds, and antibiotics would stop the virus.
I have to question that bit of writing. My understanding is that antibiotics work on bacterial infections, but viruses are too small. That's why there is no antibiotic for the common cold or ordinary influenza. Anybody in the medical field who can clarify?
Cruel2BKind
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Antibiotics are secreted by certain bacteria. They are the bacteria's personal defense system, and they work against certain organisms. For instance, the most popular antibiotic, Penicillin, was discovered when Fleming found (according to legend) a moldy cantaloupe where one mold was destroying the other mold.
Viruses are not even technically alive. Virions (viruses that are not inside cells) are basically harmless and do not reproduce. They are obligate parasites, they need hosts to reproduce. So a defense system against viruses is basically a race to see if your body can find the correct antibodies to combat a virus before the virus destroys the host.
It was my understanding that in the Walking Dead, the bleedy-lung-horribleness is just an infection, a really simple strain of bacteria that would normally be treated by a visit to the doctor, but mutated slightly, and got way out of hand because of lack of medication combined with close quarters.
They would need to find a range of antibiotics, because different antibiotics don't work on certain bacteria. ( ex. Penicillin is useless against gram-negative organisms)
PennLady
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I think I saw on one Talking Dead that Herschel now has a prosthetic foot. That's got to be a lot easier on the actor and the effects budget.
Yeah, this was the episode where all the things that were simmering started to explode, and I thought it was great. And Herschel was awesome.
Scott Wilson was on TTD after he came on the show, and I just loved his story. He talked about how he and his 96-year-old mother watched the show. And she said, oh, you have to be on this, when he got a script. That just totally cracked me up. Go Mrs. Wilson!
Lizzie is the girl; her sister is Mika, I think? She was clever, but I think she was also a little ... I want to say misguided, but that's not quite it. She's still kind of innocent enough to hope that there's still a little bit of the person left in the walker.
You make a good point about the adults, but don't forget that Lizzie is what, ten or twelve? The apocalypse is only about 18 months old at this point, I think, so surely she remembers what it was like before as well. And she's trying to make sense of it, but from a kid's POV, which is going to be different from the adults. It's a new normal for kids like Lizzie and Carl as much as it is for the adults.
Wow. It's taking me forever to get this done.
I think I started about two hours ago.I thought there were a couple of good scenes with Rick, where just the expression on his face showed his struggle to deal with everything with Carl. From the fact that he was proud of Carl's bravery to the resignation and fear that he'd have to put him in danger as they faced the horde. Rick is starting to get more practical where Carl is concerned, in terms of "childhood," and that's probably a good thing.
One thing they mentioned on TTD was that the flu is a virus, so antibiotics aren't helpful, or not always. They fight bacteria, after all, not viruses. But perhaps antibiotics would help with some symptoms, or maybe other conditions that sprang up b/c of the weakened systems or whatever. And having medications around can't be a bad thing.
You spelled Tyreese correctly, AFAIK. I think Daryl is going to feel betrayed by both Rick and Carol. By Rick, obviously, because Rick sent Carol away -- although I think Daryl would understand, eventually, that bringing Carol back may not have been the safest thing for her. Especially if word got out about what she did, Tyreese wouldn't be the only one holding a grudge. And he will feel betrayed by Carol because of what she did (Why did she do that? How could she? What didn't she ask for help?) and because she left.
I can't say I was surprised, but I was amused. They had to bring him back sometime.
However, I have read that David Morrissey will be in a new AMC series, so this may be the beginning of the end of the Governor, unless they intend to just bring him back at intervals. Not sure how well that would work, though.I want to know about the rats!
PennLady
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I think you probably have it right here. As I said in my earlier (and probably too-long post), on Talking Dead they noted that the flu is a virus, so antibiotics don't help. However, we don't know that it's a flu. People may talk about the flu-like symptoms, like coughing and aches and fatigue, but the blood building up would indicate something a bit more. Maybe that would have to be a bacterial infection; perhaps viruses can't/don't/won't make the same symptoms appear in people.
Cruel2BKind
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Also it seems people just say 'flu' when they are talking about general illness now, and not the actual factual influenza virus.
SecondCircle
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I wasn't surprised to see the Guvnah at all either PL. Lil sarcasm from me on that. I knew like everybody that he just had to be out there watching the prison. I wonder if he's got his lap dog still. The one that had an interesting chat with Daryl when Rick and The Governor were chatting?
I think there's a bit of hope going on with Lizzie too, as in she's still kinda hoping the person is still deep inside the walker. I figured that played a little part and I'm sure there's still more to her story, but I still thought she showed a bit of courage to handle the situation like she did.
And speaking of children, just to elaborate, I wasn't just talking about Carl and Lizzie, the ones that still remember, but any child out there in the world that may be born into this. I just always imagine what a mind fuck that must be to be born into a dying cannibalistic world of survival and think its the norm. Just plays with my head.
Anyway, all that was said for the virus are good points. I was just wondering because it seemed like I personally didn't catch it all. Ah, rats.
I think there's a bit of hope going on with Lizzie too, as in she's still kinda hoping the person is still deep inside the walker. I figured that played a little part and I'm sure there's still more to her story, but I still thought she showed a bit of courage to handle the situation like she did.
And speaking of children, just to elaborate, I wasn't just talking about Carl and Lizzie, the ones that still remember, but any child out there in the world that may be born into this. I just always imagine what a mind fuck that must be to be born into a dying cannibalistic world of survival and think its the norm. Just plays with my head.
Anyway, all that was said for the virus are good points. I was just wondering because it seemed like I personally didn't catch it all. Ah, rats.
SecondCircle
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Indeed and welcome. Just bolt the door on your way in. Don't need any stray walkers stumbling in here.
patientlee
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patientlee
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You don't have time for TV. You have reading to do, young man!
SecondCircle-
Now that you've finished reading, you may have your tv time. I cannot believe the time and effort you put into the FAWC comments. Kudos to you for your thoughtful observations.
Remind me after the reveal that I have a funny, little response to one of your comments on my story.
PennLady
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So what does anybody think? Has the Governor changed? Or is this a bit like Gollum, where the evil one is simply waiting for an opportunity to return?
I thought it was a good episode. I liked the change of pace of going somewhere else and getting away from the prison. I guess it felt like we could use a break after the attack last week.
And did anyone watch Talking Dead? I thought the end was so sweet, where Hardwick talked about his dad.
I thought it was a good episode. I liked the change of pace of going somewhere else and getting away from the prison. I guess it felt like we could use a break after the attack last week.
And did anyone watch Talking Dead? I thought the end was so sweet, where Hardwick talked about his dad.
soflabbwlvr
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Gov's batshit crazy. As soon as he gets a whiff of Michonne or lays his eye on Rick he'll go over the deep end again.
I liked the episode, but I hope the Gov's women last more than one episode. I'm getting a little tired of every new character getting killed as soon as we know their names.
I missed TD. Had to wait until 11 to see TWD. Maybe I'll catch it on demand this evening.
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