A proposal for the GLBT forums

Mmmyeah - I can see where you're coming from and I for one would welcome more L discussion here, beyond my small circle of friends at Uni - I'd like to hear what USA lesbians are talking about. Those discussion needn't be focussed specifically on L topics because so much of communication is between the lines: use of language; attitudes to life in general - I've already learned so much from people here in the sub-text.

It's been mentioned numerous times that L's feel intimated or, since that has 'weak' connotations, 'pissed off' by threads being interrupted by unwelcome posts. Setting up a separate thread won't stop that, but it does draw a line in the sand: "you're in the wrong place buddy so f@@k off" and lurking L posters might be emboldened by that and so feel more comfortable posting.

My other thought is 'why the hell not?' I mean Jeez - all you need is a few lines of html and css for chrissakes - it's not like this is going to take more than thirty minutes of a coders time. If we took the lay-down attitude then there would only be one chaotic discussion thread.

And BTW you missed out 'T' but that's ok if it's not your thing And yes, I know T discussion can be a bit weird, but the watershed would be the proposed 'discussion' and 'play' ( whatever ) to keep the shemale-lovers etc in 'play'

There's nothing normal about you KB - you're exceptional. You scare the hell out of me because you have such strong opinions about topics that leave me scratching my head. I mean that in a good way because you challenge and push. But I don't want to get all mushy on that, I'm just standing hands on hip and kicking dirt ( forgive my attempt at genuine American colloquialism ).

stickygirl said:

Mmmyeah - I can see where you're coming from and I for one would welcome more L discussion here, beyond my small circle of friends at Uni - I'd like to hear what USA lesbians are talking about. Those discussion needn't be focussed specifically on L topics because so much of communication is between the lines: use of language; attitudes to life in general - I've already learned so much from people here in the sub-text.

It's been mentioned numerous times that L's feel intimated or, since that has 'weak' connotations, 'pissed off' by threads being interrupted by unwelcome posts. Setting up a separate thread won't stop that, but it does draw a line in the sand: "you're in the wrong place buddy so f@@k off" and lurking L posters might be emboldened by that and so feel more comfortable posting.

My other thought is 'why the hell not?' I mean Jeez - all you need is a few lines of html and css for chrissakes - it's not like this is going to take more than thirty minutes of a coders time. If we took the lay-down attitude then there would only be one chaotic discussion thread.

And BTW you missed out 'T' but that's ok if it's not your thing And yes, I know T discussion can be a bit weird, but the watershed would be the proposed 'discussion' and 'play' ( whatever ) to keep the shemale-lovers etc in 'play'

There's nothing normal about you KB - you're exceptional. You scare the hell out of me because you have such strong opinions about topics that leave me scratching my head. I mean that in a good way because you challenge and push. But I don't want to get all mushy on that, I'm just standing hands on hip and kicking dirt ( forgive my attempt at genuine American colloquialism ).

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Not even coding. I've seen the back-end of several of these forum systems and when I said that all it takes is the push of a button, I meant it. vBulletin (Literotica's system) in particular is very "user friendly".

Are all the serious LGBT posters on holiday someplace right now? If so why didn't they ask me? If not then are people holding back because they await the changes or ... just can't be bothered and have got a life? Maybe they went to Tumblr?

Safe_Bet said:

Fucking NUDGE!!!!!

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It goes to Laurel, not me. I can't do anything anyway, as I already outlined.

stickygirl said:

Are all the serious LGBT posters on holiday someplace right now? If so why didn't they ask me? If not then are people holding back because they await the changes or ... just can't be bothered and have got a life? Maybe they went to Tumblr?

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I'm tired of writing these proposals-- per Laurel's request-- and being poked at and jeered at and attacked for it... and MAYBE something happens, and maybe not, even though we jumped through the hoops. And maybe the writer asks to do it all over again because the outcome really wasn't what we hoped for-- and then there's big fat arguments about that, too.

I've gone to tumblr and fetlife for my GLBT -- especially trans-- discussion.

Stella_Omega said:

I'm tired of writing these proposals-- per Laurel's request-- and being poked at and jeered at and attacked for it... and MAYBE something happens, and maybe not, even though we jumped through the hoops. And maybe the writer asks to do it all over again because the outcome really wasn't what we hoped for-- and then there's big fat arguments about that, too.

I've gone to tumblr and fetlife for my GLBT -- especially trans-- discussion.

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Yea well...*sigh* I get the impression, from my observations, that Trans are only here as candy. Then there's the other ones who wear bad knickers and look at shemales over and over again so... yup. No offense to any of the latter category btw - it's just fact and, to that end, Lit serves a purpose.

It's basically set up to serve the hetero majority, of which Laurel and Manu are a part, let's face it-- and how would they ever see a reason to cater to anyone else's needs? That would be... "Playing favorites," or "reverse sexism" or something.

Majority rules, minority drools, here at Lit.

[.......

amylin456 said:

While I appreciate the 'dedication' for serious dialogue and such, perhaps there are some here that just enjoy LIT for the eroticism and outlet that it may offer. Although I am totally for expression of ideas and thoughts and feelings.
I just don't see it as a crusade .. sorry if that offends..

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The number of fucks I, personally, have to give if you see this discussion about finding space for our own eroticism and outlets as a crusade or not, are less than zero.

Sorry if that offends.

*shrugs* There should be space for both but, as has been discussed at length, not necessarily in the same bucket, which is the whole point of trying to separate different interest groups. I'm not dissing guys who have a kink at all. I happen to find photos of trans women slightly offensive, not because of who they are or what they look like, but because of the morbid reaction they provoke in some people. I find it quite scarey in fact. I wouldn't for a moment want to ban it because I need to know people feel that way about TGs - it serves as a warning to me to be more careful in real life.
I'm sure people just vote with their feet and I visit less and less because there is little of interest for me. There is little of interest for most lesbians... not many of those around now either, so I'm not sure what that says about Lit...

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kbate said:

I don't. We have had a decade in which to get some vivid 'L' discussions and few are posted. I do not believe that it has anything to do with sorting through the sexual threads, I believe that it has more to do with the nature of 'L'.

G seems largely to be about, "The next penis in hand, mouth or arse" which is quite easy to post about on the internet.

I find it difficult to define anything about 'L' that is so simple to write about. Love? nah. Maxi-pads? Yuck. Make-up? Only for formals anyway. Shoes? We all love shoes, that isn't L. Bisexuals? Uninterested. Pussy? That brings in the straight men in a flash.

What uniquely 'L' discussions are we to hold that won't bring in straight men who think L means, 'chance for a threesome'?

My basic problem is that I'm a normal person with a family who works two jobs and runs a small farm - but who happens to live with and love another woman. Nothing about my life except for the good-night kiss is particularly 'L'.

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I guess you live in an ideal world, one where being 'L' isn't a big deal, one where your next door neighbor would even talk to you despite being in love with and living with another woman. A world where just because I wear a big rock on my finger it's not assumed I'm married to a man. A world where we're not just the token 'L' couple to our 'H' married friends. A world where no one cares that our children have two mommies and there won't be some who won't allow their children to play with ours because we're the 'L' couple. A world where even at the grocery store we aren't stared at by some, I suppose we could prevent that, act like sisters or best friends but I'll be dammed if I'm going to act that way. I could go on but I won't.

In some way my life isn't 'L' but in all the important parts it is 'L'.

By the way in your decade being here maybe things haven't changed much but since I left Lit both the board and story section back in early 2002 a lot has changed especially the board. This was not a very friendly place for any lesbian or gay man and a guy had better not mention he was bi or a woman she was bisexual unless it had to do with getting some guy to hold his dick.

kbate said:

hundreds of posts, and I still haven't seen a single attempt at starting a TG thread, or a lesbian discussion thread, or any thread which would fit into the proposed forums.

If people won't post the threads. . .

why should Laurel give a . . .f?

offend?

If the threads are there, the users will come - or not. Making a "safe place" in hope that the users are lurking though? questionable - but soldier on.

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Maybe you're right maybe no one is going to start those threads but as it stands now why would anyone start any thread that has to do with being 'L', 'G', 'B' or 'T', in a non-sexual way, when they don't stay on page one of this board more than a day. I like Stella have decided that as thing are now I'll go somewhere else for my 'L' desires for talk and online friendships.

By the way I'm one of those lurking but the truth is as things stand now I lurk for about as long as it took to lose my virginity, a whole, being generous, 32 seconds.

kbate said:

hundreds of posts, and I still haven't seen a single attempt at starting a TG thread, or a lesbian discussion thread, or any thread which would fit into the proposed forums.

If people won't post the threads. . .

why should Laurel give a . . .fuck?

offend?

If the threads are there, the users will come - or not. Making a "safe place" in hope that the users are lurking though? questionable - but soldier on.

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Fixed that for you. It's totally allowed to write "fuck" here at literotica.

As for the rest of what you have to say, that's either your responsibility or else it's none of your business and you can choose which.

Stella_Omega said:

And yeah, moderating a forum that impacts lots of people's personal identity issues is going to suck.

I would moderate it, and believe it or not, I could do that fairly and equitably, simply because I am passionate about EVERYONE's right to have some self respect.

I happen to be very sure that there are better ways to arrange things to make that possible.

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Stella_Omega said:

The number of fucks I, personally, have to give if you see this discussion about finding space for our own eroticism and blah blah blah...

Sorry if that offends.

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What the fuck ever.

Stella_Omega said:

Fixed that for you. It's totally allowed to write "fuck" here at literotica.

As for the rest of what you have to say, that's either your responsibility or else it's none of your business and you can choose which.

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You're like a spoiled child, honestly. A child who throws toys out of the cot when she doesn't get what she wants.

How many more people are you going to snap at?

And you wonder why people don't post here.

Jesus H Christ
I'm so fucking done with this

I am passionate about EVERYONE's right to have some self respect.

I must admit that I almost gagged when I saw this. Stella is one of the very few on the forum who resorts to gay slurs in arguments with me.

sr71plt said:

I am passionate about EVERYONE's right to have some self respect.

I must admit that I almost gagged when I saw this. Stella is one of the very few on the forum who resorts to gay slurs in arguments with me.

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What part of self respect says that I have to provide it for you?

I rest my case.

If you wonder why more folks aren't participating on the GLBT forum, you only have to as far as Miss Bossy Pants Stella for a big hint.

Thankful for what we have...

It sounds like the last several posts have been about frustration. I know this is going to sound hokey and semi-religious, but perhaps it is time just to pause and be thankful for what we have...

1) I think we have a wonderful moderator in Etoile. How many times over the years have we had anybody come in her as an absolute jerk and tell us how gross, how evil, how unnatural we are. There is plenty of that out there in the real world. However, there have been so FEW times that we have had such people creep into this space. I think we forget just how great that makes this space. The fact that we can argue with each other instead of spending our time arguing with scum who trash our life choices or being frustrated with spam shows just how well walled in we are against the hostile outside world.

2) I know the forum hasn't changed the way everybody wants, but it will change in time. Lets be thankful we are talking about an online forum, and not about more serious matters such as denial of rights to see a loved one, or employment, or brutality It does still exist out there -- outside our forum walls.

3) We have to understand that we are ALL very different people, and yet we are the same too. In life that dichotomy is always present. The best thing to do is just learn to appreciate when you agree, and tolerate when you don't. No two people are always going to agree even if they are twins. Tolerance is something to be cultivated. Likewise, we have to void constant agreement that some fall in the trap of just to be "in" the group.

Again, my intention of this post is reflect on the good stuff about this space and not dwell on what it isn't (or at least isn't yet).

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kbate said:

......redacted.


have a good life stella.

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Thank you for changing your words, I honestly appreciate that. And anyway, I have given up. This forum which you never visit will continue to be a forum which you approve of-- unless someone else wants to do the work.

I have no idea why MY opinion is SO important to sr71plt that he actually has to follow me from forum to forum to complain about how mean I am to him. Or why the few times I have finally given up and laughed at him and his special style of presentation-- should have hurt him so badly-- after all the name calling and wild accusations (as above) he's thrown my way.

It's sort of flattering, but mostly it's like having a tick trying to burrow under one's skin.

There's no reason why I shouldn't be reading into the GLBT forum, Stella. I'm actually an active author on this story Web site (the most prolific GM author times 2.5 over the next most prolific). I've got more both lesbian stories and bi stories here than you do, even.

You are a drone here, with only two stories and one poem here for years and years of membership of trying to tell the Web site and the members here what they can/should be doing. You even once tried to get everyone to quit this Web site and go somewhere else (and you went to AbsoluteRight until you found out they didn't want a drone to boss them around anymore than we want/need one here).

So, this being a story site, I think I have more reason and investment to be weighing in on what this site should be doing to give equal aspect to the GLBT community here than you do.

It's true that it isn't bi friendly (or particularly GM or lesbian friendly either), and I'd write more bi stories here if there were appropriate categories for them--but rather than just whining about it and making demands without actually contributing content, I occasionally throw a bi story in here and there and let it do what it will.

You are just a bossy drone here. Have no investment chits at all.

Without getting into playing "who's more entitled to post here", I'll note that many parts of the Lit forums are not dedicated to writing stories. sr71plt may have more stories, but Stella has more posts (though maybe this just makes her more opinionated ). Anyone who's involved in the Lit community should be able to make suggestions for forum modifications, but both those who have lots of stories and those with lots of posts may have an investment in any potential changes. We're also talking about those who don't post much because they don't find the forums congenial as they are currently structured, with an eye to getting them more involved.

haurni said:

Without getting into playing "who's more entitled to post here", I'll note that many parts of the Lit forums are not dedicated to writing stories. sr71plt may have more stories, but Stella has more posts (though maybe this just makes her more opinionated ). Anyone who's involved in the Lit community should be able to make suggestions for forum modifications, but both those who have lots of stories and those with lots of posts may have an investment in any potential changes. We're also talking about those who don't post much because they don't find the forums congenial as they are currently structured, with an eye to getting them more involved.

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I'd say that 27,000 forum posts in six and a half years was "lots of posts." (Stella's been around longer.)

And don't hold your breath on forum modifications. Stella has been railing for years on having everything set up just to please her--to the point of using this site to campaign for people to abandon this site (there's a forum rule against this)--and yet her contribution to the product of this site (stories) is nil. The forum is a tiny little corner of this Web site and the Web site owners have continually shown that they have little energy to put toward it (which is their right--it's their site.)

I'd like a separate bi forum section too (and gay male separated from lesbian as well), but we'd need a separate FFM and MMF section too. GLBT just isn't the homogenous group some think it is. As I've already noted, most of the gay bashing I get on the forum is from those claiming to be lesbian.