The Haters

I think we all try to do this - and in particular, when I edit, rarely, I try to insert as little of my own voice as possible. But I bet it's harder to do than we think.



In both cases, I think you'd like - ideally - multiple opinions, so that you can tell what really doesn't work from a particular reader's (or author's) idiosyncrasies.



Occasionally he's more refined than that - he replaces "shit" with "word salad" in the case of poetry. (Not saying his POV lacks all validity. But he has very strong opinions and specific tastes - which takes me back to my answer to NotWise.

As a larval psychologist I was trained by a gang of perfessers who demanded brutal honesty and plain speaking. At the end my public evaluation by these people was worse than anything you poor babies experience. To condense it, they said I passed but they sure hoped I was never their therapist. Bob got the worst of it. Bob passed all the coursework and none of the clinical requirements. He simply couldn't get on the same page with anyone, if you cried because your dog died, Bob didn't get it. The perfessers were merciless, and he didn't graduate. One perfesser said, I COULDNT LIVE WITH MYSELF IF I TURNED YOU LOOSE ON THE PUBLIC. It was painful to hear because they pulled no punches. Bob sued and lost.

The attitude of the department was GET OVER IT OR GET OUT. The goal was for you to grow a hard shell before going out into the world. Snowflakes not wanted. My first job had trouble with me telling staff and management to go fuck themselves. But the language is common at many places. The best supervisors I had spoke it fluently. GO FUCK YOURSELF should be an affirmation you tape to your refrigerator and see every morning. Start your day with LC, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

THATS SHIT covers most of the shoddy wares posted at LIT. WORD SALAD covers all of your poetry. In fact, I changed your account name to WITHOUT RHYME OR REASON. Bulls-eye.
 
As a larval psychologist I was trained by a gang of perfessers who ded, Bob didn't get it. The perfessers were merciless, and he didn't graduate. One perfesser said,
I think you'll find that is spelled PROFESSOR/S I didn't digest any of the other crap you wrote.:confused:
 
His gist is "suck it up. He's got a point, but delivered it piss poor as usual.

One of my betters said of me, HE HAS NO TACT AND ISNT IN AWE OF ANYONE. All but me were scared of her, I wanted to fuck her, and told everyone I did. I got few work counseling sessions, and when I applied to transfer she didn't hesitate to approve it with a nice endorsement.

SUCK IT UP. I like it. I oughta sell self affirmation bumper stickers with SUCK IT UP and GO FUCK YOURSELF printed on them.
 
But when an author reads your story, do we not become readers?

Maybe it depends on the author, but when I give feedback I separate the author side of me(I.E. well I would have written it...or done...or said...) and just simply read it and go with that reaction.

Most authors are big readers-maybe not material here, but in general, so we still have that aspect to our make up

I couldn't agree more with every word of this. I've written about two dozen stories for Lit in the last 14 years. I write them occasionally because it's fun. I share my toys.

But I don't consider myself a Lit author. I consider myself a Lit reader. I read stories every day here, though it's actually a very small part of my total reading.

When I'm reading, I don't analyze as a writer. I analyze as a reader. Educated or experienced readers are fully capable of articulating more than "It's shit" or "I jacked off twice to it" or even "Go kill yourself." The idea that they just come here to get off is short-sighted and arrogant. They come here to get off with a well-told story is more likely.

Why can't a reader discuss character development, plot integrity or grammar? Those things are important to us as readers. We commit valuable time to the story as well as the writer. The job of a writer is to get those things right because WE KNOW about them, even if we can't articulate them in writerly terms. It doesn't take another writer to point those things out.

The idea that writers here don't write to have their material critiqued is pure bullshit. That's what readers do. Sometimes we say, I liked it, or It's shit. Sometimes we say, Your characters seem like cardboard cutouts, or People don't talk like that or Reminded me of The Wasteland...boring.

Write your goddam stories, authors. Read the feedback or don't. Heed the feedback or don't. The reader is still the ultimate arbitrar of what's good and what isn't.

rj
 
The average person is deluged with quality writing, art and graphics. Every day they are exposed to high quality graphics and copy in slick magazines and web pages. They watch television or movies by some of the best authors and playwrights on the planet. They read the current best novelists. They see carefully thought out typography. They see commercials and political ads that tell a vivid, complete story in 30 seconds.

Then they come here and pronounce your latest story "...is shit."

Maybe they're right...

rj
 
I couldn't agree more with every word of this. I've written about two dozen stories for Lit in the last 14 years. I write them occasionally because it's fun. I share my toys.

But I don't consider myself a Lit author. I consider myself a Lit reader. I read stories every day here, though it's actually a very small part of my total reading.

When I'm reading, I don't analyze as a writer. I analyze as a reader. Educated or experienced readers are fully capable of articulating more than "It's shit" or "I jacked off twice to it" or even "Go kill yourself." The idea that they just come here to get off is short-sighted and arrogant. They come here to get off with a well-told story is more likely.

Why can't a reader discuss character development, plot integrity or grammar? Those things are important to us as readers. We commit valuable time to the story as well as the writer. The job of a writer is to get those things right because WE KNOW about them, even if we can't articulate them in writerly terms. It doesn't take another writer to point those things out.

The idea that writers here don't write to have their material critiqued is pure bullshit. That's what readers do. Sometimes we say, I liked it, or It's shit. Sometimes we say, Your characters seem like cardboard cutouts, or People don't talk like that or Reminded me of The Wasteland...boring.

Write your goddam stories, authors. Read the feedback or don't. Heed the feedback or don't. The reader is still the ultimate arbitrar of what's good and what isn't.

rj

Oh,my I wasted 8 years of college, and they musta been daft to elect me to 2 honor societies.

Uh, Goofy? ITS SHIT saves lotsa time with the Nimrods. Yuck yuck yuck.
 
Oh,my I wasted 8 years of college, and they musta been daft to elect me to 2 honor societies.

Uh, Goofy? ITS SHIT saves lotsa time with the Nimrods. Yuck yuck yuck.

And you've pretty much wasted four or five years here on Lit being an asshat.
 
... The perfessers were merciless, and he didn't graduate. One perfesser said, I COULDNT LIVE WITH MYSELF IF I TURNED YOU LOOSE ON THE PUBLIC. It was painful to hear because they pulled no punches. Bob sued and lost.

The attitude of the department was GET OVER IT OR GET OUT. The goal was for you to grow a hard shell before going out into the world. Snowflakes not wanted. My first job had trouble with me telling staff and management to go fuck themselves. But the language is common at many places. The best supervisors I had spoke it fluently. GO FUCK YOURSELF should be an affirmation you tape to your refrigerator and see every morning. Start your day with LC, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

THATS SHIT covers most of the shoddy wares posted at LIT. WORD SALAD covers all of your poetry. In fact, I changed your account name to WITHOUT RHYME OR REASON. Bulls-eye.

Regarding part I, yep, I agree 100% - my professional stuff gets way more critical peer review than anything I've ever gotten at Lit.

Regarding part II, water off a duck's back. You haven't hurt my feelings. Your opinion is your opinion, and it's my prerogative to take it seriously, or not.
 
Regarding part I, yep, I agree 100% - my professional stuff gets way more critical peer review than anything I've ever gotten at Lit.

Regarding part II, water off a duck's back. You haven't hurt my feelings. Your opinion is your opinion, and it's my prerogative to take it seriously, or not.

I'm the best friend you have at LIT.
 
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