BDSM: Questions and Answers

this one said:

this one is not seeking to be the perfect subject for a Master, because she understands that she is and can never be perfect. she does realize that she must understand this part of herself better before she seeks to put her newfound awareness into practice. This is a revelation for her - not long ago she had no idea that this side of her existed, and she is becoming educated about and aquainted with it. she must understand this part of herself better before she will feel comfortable sharing it.

When the time comes, and this one feels that she has come to understand this newly discovered side of herself well enough that she may seek further guidance, she will seek a Master. Until that time, she cannot hope to know herself well enough; it is a startling self discovery that this one is what she is. At the moment, this discovery is still embryonic, and this one must know it better before trying to work with it.

Is it not true that one must know themselves well in this subject?

this one offers her thanks for your concern.

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your road is yours to choose of course but i have found that i could not have come to understand myself and my submissive side as well as i have without Magister. His dominance has freed me to explore it and feel comfortable with it. my Master and i are two halves of a whole and only by serving Him am i able to understand and let that side of me grow.

however you choose to follow your star though i do with you luck.

Magister, geri, you've been sweet and gentle with this one, far more than i was. I applaud you for that and am appropriately humbled by your inclusiveness and acceptance where i was exclusive and unaccepting. I'm glad, too, for the fact that you desire to fit into the conventions we've adopted here. I think you guys bring a viewpoint we've pretty much lacked, that of a close-knit and tightly-bound but still new-to-this D/s relationship.

All viewpoints are desireable. We all learn from each other.

Forever, geri, i've used a lowercase "i" when referring to myself. My family thinks me odd, my friends have mentioned it so many times they've given up noticing, other online BDSM places of which i've been a part have had different conventions and made me feel a bit awkward for sticking to it. However, it's a part of the way i relate to the world at my fingertips. It's a part of the way i see myself in that world. It's a part of how i *am* in my world and i'm not going to change it now.

We all do small things in our everyday lives to keep the flame of our central core identity on a slow simmer. For some of us, our needs are met in our clothing choices or where we live or what kind of car we drive. Others of us smoke - or don't. Drink or don't. Write poetry or don't.

I use a lowercase "i" to refer to myself, and a lowercase "b" when i write out my given name. Always. To whomever crosses my path in my life. It is part of the way i remain the woman that i am and is as legitimate a way of going through my days as is anyone's way of self-identification.



I gotta ask for some clarification as to your use of the term "subspace" though, if i may.

In my mind, in my life, in my experience, "subspace" is indeed an emotional state but definitely not one that's an everyday, walking-around sort of headspace that's reachable by the focused use of "i" instead of "I" in what i write.

Subspace is something one gets out of the blue, like a check cuz you've won some proze in a contest you'd forgotten you entered, and is almost always as a result of some really intense sessioning. It's like flying, emotionally, and has been called "blissing out". It's a really spiritual, almost mystical experience, an altered state of consciousness. It's an experience that's way way way outside what we experience in our normal every lives. It's focusing so incredibly intently that nothing... nothing... in the world exists but you and your Dominant and that moment. There is no next moment. There was no before moment. There is only you and him and now and your reality is so perfectly crystalline that even you barely exist as an entity separate from him.

It's not a place one can reach by trying, nor by mechanical means, like we can orgasm if someone pushes there and circles here for long enough. It's a place of the moment, of you two, of your emotions. It's not a thing you get every time you scene, not a thing that happens for most of us very often, not a thing of "practice makes perfect". It's a gift. It comes from out of the blue.

It can be stunningly rare and immensely precious, subspace.

To be fair, lately it seems there are differing opinions about the definition of this word. (Of course. Do any of us believe of what any of the rest of us believe is right and true? All the time? BDSM and its adherents are the most fractured sexual sub-group that exists, i think.) Some people believe that subspace is a form of "endorphin high" which comes from extensive, well performed BDSM play and as a result of the physical stimuli that the sub has received. Others view it as a feeling of extreme connection between the sub and her Dom. Perhaps you're of the latter group, Magister and geri? The former definition was the only one in use for many years. Things change quickly, sometimes, and especially since the advent of the net.

Submissive headspace, to my way of thinking, is a thing which is reachable by adherence to policy and rules and guidelines and expectations and being obedient. To my way of thinking, "submissive headspace" and "subspace" are not at all not the same things.

Semantics.
They'll take us to hell with them, i think.

First of all I want to welcome PB to the discussion. It is nice to have you here asking questions. And just a reminder to anyone who has a question, but hasn't asked it, remember there are no dumb questions here...

I want to say that I don't examine too closely who I am and how I got here, but PB, you questions were thought provoking this morning... I knew that there was something different about me and my needs, but I did not realize that it was about BDSM until the last couple of years. Given that, I did not have the courage to explore that aspect of myself until this past year. And in doing that I grew from shame and fear into a quiet acceptance of myself and my needs....

I did not do that alone... many people were with me on my journey. But it was not until I came here to Lit that I found the courage to explore my needs in R/L. I spent countless hours in chat rooms and on web sites dedicated to this lifestyle, reading everything I could find on the net, talking with people, cybering, looking for what I needed and wanted in my life. I placed ads, met men for coffee, emailed, dated... and weeded through countless people... all they while knowing that I would find what I was looking for eventually... and I did....

I cannot begin to tell you how my life has changed in four short months... and a lot of those changes are due to the support and acceptance I have found here... and to my willingness to put myself out there and take a chance... I am, at times, in awe of where I am in my life now, and the people that have been placed in my life.

In fact I just had a conversation about this last night with Himself, (who, BTW, gets a big chuckle out of me referring to him as such)... and how this whole relationship is about my willingness to explore where he takes me and my willingness to go there in the first place... my willingness to submitand give myself over to him... and the honesty between the two of us... something that was lacking for both of us in all our previous relationships...

Is our relationship a traditional BDSM relationship? I don't know... I know that it is somewhat different than what I have seen and read about... but it is a relationship that suits us... and more than anything else, I have come to realize that is what this is about... we have taken those aspects of BDSM and incorporated them into to our lives that suit us... there is no cookie cutter format for a BDSM relationship... it is for each of us different and what we make of it...

But first and foremost, before it is BDSM, it is just a relationship between two people, with all of the difficulties and joys of a relationship... and I think that is the most important thing... we are two distinct people, with ideas and opinions that don't always coinside... we have jobs and lives and families... we are people first... and because we are lucky people, we found each other... and we are able to meet each others needs...

So, PB, I don't know if this answers any of your questions or not...

Magister said:

However, if you can still refer to yourself in the first person without major discomfort, perhaps you could do as geri does, and use 'i' and the lower case at all times. That way, your posts would be much easier for other people to read.

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this one,
this is the most comfortable way for me to write as well. the only time i use caps anymore is when i write stories for publication; even those about Lord Sannion and i or when i use word to write and that automaticly changes them for me.
if it is comforting, and indeed serves the purposes you stated before to write as you have been, please do what *you* need and/or want to!! joke em if they can't take a fuck <g>
i'd guess this was brought up for several reasons there are people who grovel and hand themselves over to any Dom (in print) Sir this and Ma'am that to anyone that comes along and call it manners, or rules that sub's must abide by. i don't know about anyone else, but that just makes me cringe!! Dom, sub, black, white... E/everyone (lol) must earn my respect before i address them with any. i don't even visit the D/s chat room here anymore because i was informed that it was a new rule that i *had* to address any Dom there as Sir or Ma'am. **shivers** that is just wrong...
anyway i'm wandering a bit off the topic here. respect is something earned, being a sub doesn't relieve anyone from earning that with you. in fact i'd say it may be even harder for people to earn it when the gift of your submission is so great!! that, is for one person though the rest of us are usually happy just to be addressed honestly, and politely. the rest of that S/stuff has it's place i'm sure... **giggle** okay i'd better stop now, before i really piss someone off.

cellis,

Thank you for your great reply to my question. You have some very interesting insights that I found helpful. Especially the fact that like any other coupling, it's a relationship between two people first, and a BDSM relationship second. Very important advice to keep in mind. I'm not sure if you answered my question, I think when it comes down to it, I'll be the only one that can answer it because it's who I am. But I will say, everyone's answers and advice have been very helpful.

And so we continue down the road of life...

Thanks again all.

- PBW

Hey PBW, the idea that our relationships with our SO's are relationships first and BDSM second is one that permeates all through the BDSM world. It's also found all throughout this thread, from the beginning last summer until just recently and that's cuz it's so central to us as people within our relationships.

I've been getting some really interesting PM's and email lately, guys, from nillas, mostly, who want to know more about us, who want to understand us, who want to learn.

Should i push on them to post their questions here, just like anyone? (One of them is a little hesitant, i think, because he's afraid of being jumped on for not phrasing things correctly, maybe, and offending some here. However, i may be wrong about that, too. Maybe he just wants to keep it in an email format with me.) One of them has come to a late life realization that's he's sub, and the bittersweet realization that he'll never have a chance to express it since he's not willing to do anything to damage his totally nilla and very long-lasting marriage.

I think we can be open and welcoming to nillas here, can't we? They're after what we're all after - more knowledge about themselves and the people in the world around them.




Mskittykat
E/everyone (lol) must earn my respect before i address them with any. i don't even visit the D/s chat room here anymore because i was informed that it was a new rule that i *had* to address any Dom there as Sir or Ma'am. **shivers** that is just wrong...


~applauding you with smiling admiration~

Disclaimer: The following is only my personal opinion as a vet of 30 years of real life BDSM and about 10 years of online BDSM.

We have a long-standing interest in non-chatroom BDSM here. Chatroom BDSM is, in my opinion, mostly utter bullshit.
Forgive me if i step on any toes.

It's phony.
It doesn't sound or taste or smell or feel or begin to be as emotionally involving as does hands-on BDSM.
Anyone showing up a munch and calling all the Dominants (if you could figure out who they are, of course) "Sir" or "Ma'am" would be... well... treated with some amount of astonished suspicion and disbelief.

People in the real world don't do that online crap.
We don't do it here, either.

There're plenty of places to practice online BDSM. This isn't one of them. Isn't it nice to have an reality-based BDSM zone here and there on the net?

cymbidia said:

One of them has come to a late life realization that's he's sub, and the bittersweet realization that he'll never have a chance to express it since he's not willing to do anything to damage his totally nilla and very long-lasting marriage.

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I wonder... uhmm... can you tell us (well me lol) how he came to that realization without mentioning names or giving him away (I can understand that he wants to remain anonymous and all that). I would be interested to know how people figured out what they really wanted. LOL... I swear.. this is probably the first time in my life I've ever felt this confused. I've been weighting both sides of the coin and can't really seem to come to a decision about what I really want.

Also, have any submissive men ever been scared to come out of the "BDSM closet" because of negative things people would say or think about them?

I think we can be open and welcoming to nillas here, can't we? They're after what we're all after - more knowledge about themselves and the people in the world around them.

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Well I don't know about the rest of the nillas, but I feel that everyone here is very welcoming and open. But then, I have a pretty thick skin.

Just call me Mr. Question. LOL

- PBW

Wow, go away for a few days, and you miss the good convo...

Wowee! I take two little days away, and the thread fills up with interesting topics. Forgive the lengthy rambling ahead, I'm catching up...and deeply opinionated, as many of you already know.

P.B.W.
Welcome! You bring an open mind and good questions; those kinds of contributions are always welcome.

nature/nurture: I know this can be (and has been) debated to the moon and back, and ultimately, we'll probably never know. Personally, my experience with BDSM started, in a limited way, in my first sexual relationship. It was an intermittent but increasingly frequent part of my sexual and romantic life for years, in the last few years it has blossomed into a major part of my sexual self. Incidentally, I was abused as a child, in all senses of the word. As to what role that plays in my sexual self, I cannot say. Truthfully, I do not care. I am no longer an abused person. In some ways, the strength and self-confidence required to embrace this way of loving and share it with another has helped me to become a person who would never again tolerate physical abuse, from anyone.

roles and finding someone: It means what you make of it. You may be sub, you may be Dom, you may prefer (like myself, Spectre T and others) to Switch. Those things are, however, just labels to describe a wide variety of needs, desires, and practices. Only self-knowledge, exploration, and open lines of communication in your relationship(s) will allow you to learn what works for you.

You do not have to have this all figured out before finding someone with whom to explore. Like all relationships, honesty is key. If you are inexperienced but curious, eager to try on a variety of roles to find what fits, make that exploration a part of your journey together. There are others out there who are also exploring, or more experienced Switches who will very happily help you to explore the full spectrum of D/s relationships as a part of your developing romance. Alternative sexualities are not exclusive clubs of know-it-all players, unwilling to admit those still searching. You'll find where you fit, if you're willing to look for it.

submissive men: I'm speaking for someone else here, so take it with a grain of salt. However, I know that my husband was (and still is) more comfortable in the Dominant role. This is not truly about his sexual fulfillment, but about his social conditioning. He feels like an "appropriate" man in the Dominant role, feels somewhat threatened by the vulnerability of submission, and what it might suggest about his masculinity. When I can get him into the right headspace, let the trust between us flow freely enough to liberate his submission, it's an incredibly wild and fulfilling experience for us both.

I know for a fact, however, that many people who suspect we're involved in BDSM *assume* he's Dom, and he doesn't disabuse them of that notion. We've discussed "the closet" here before, and likely will again. There are many reasons some of us stay in it, social judgements about gender-normative levels of Dominance or submission is one of them.

this one: Don't let cymbidia frighten you. Her bark is far worse than her bite. (*winks for cym*) I think what she means to suggest is that this forum generally uses real world modes of expression--and the first person is a part of that. For some, it provides a welcome respite from the awkwardly ritualized communication of BDSM forums and chats.

In the end, however, do what works for you. I *know* that cymbidia, of all people, would never mean to suggest that individual styles and means of expression aren't welcome here. They are; you are. If the third person helps you to explore your relationship to pride and sense of self during your journey of discovery, then more joy to you for it. In time, we'll all adjust to the semantic turn.

Similarly, your decision to seek a Master or to wait is one that only you can make. However, don't be afraid or believe that you must take this journey alone. If and when you are ready, you will find a Master who can take over *leading* that journey, helping you to develop parts of yourself that you cannot see or reach on your own. That development, and the strength and resilience it brings to a relationship, the trust and love it requires and strengthens, is also part of the journey. When you're ready, and only then. The choice is always yours to make.

CrAZy: We've had pleasant exchanges for a good long while now, so you know I dig you. However, I was somewhat mystified by your longer post a few pages ago.

I agree that it's important for people to understand that no person lives by sexuality alone. However, I think your means of addressing that issue to this thread has two major problems. 1) It assumes that people don't already know that people are complex and integrated humans, which labels "outsiders" just as much as many of us have been labelled by conservatives and others.

But this is the part that worries me somewhat: 2) This is a thread dedicated to the ins-and-outs of BDSM sexuality and romance. Bringing in a lot of chatter about what movies we watch or which grocery store we prefer might detract from that. There *have* been discussions about cultural events and productions that deal with BDSM-related themes. However, this thread is 30+ pages and growing all the time--and that's without a lot of RL talk about other facets of life.

For those people who only post here, who are looking for information and support while they figure out this specific part of their lives, it's an invaluable resource, as we've seen time and time again. To "water it down" with too much else would detract from that, would make it into something it was never intended to be and never has been: it would make it into the GB. Nobody is obligated to discuss all aspects of their life, nor to look at the GB if that isn't what they seek. Why change that? It works, and helps people, the way that it is.

cymbidia: Honey, what are you doing playing the semantics Mistress? You are *totally* stealing my thunder. btw, got the new cell phone (finally), so you know. Though it sounds like my safe-calling days are over for a while.

cellis, Frouwa_Aph, mskittykatt, geri, Magister, Spectre T, Miss Taken, Blond Girl, et al: I've followed your posts carefully, and just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your intelligence and insight, and the way you share yourselves here. Thank you for what you bring to the conversation and the community.

And now, I'm done frothing over. Sorry for the length. Only two days away, and I build up quite a head of steam, don't I?

RS

this one

Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I'm going to repeat what others have already said, you are completely welcome here, and free to portray yourself in any manner you choose. You are also free to change your mind, if you decide to present yourself in a different way. cymbidia is right that the conventions of this board tend more towards straight forward English grammar, but there have been exceptions, yes? sexy-girl wont use capitals or punctuation gnufi poppets is being having the style that is? And there are others. I'm sure there's always room for one more.

P. B. Walker said:

I wonder... uhmm... can you tell us (well me lol) how he came to that realization without mentioning names or giving him away

Also, have any submissive men ever been scared to come out of the "BDSM closet" because of negative things people would say or think about them?

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I've contacted him, PBW, and asked him if he would be willing to speak about this for himself. If not, perhaps he'll be willing to allow me to do it. I'd rather you hear it from him, though, just cuz he's the best one to tell his story, don't you think?

I'd like to give him a day or two to respond. It's the weekend after all, and sometimes people can't get back here during the weekend.

I didn't want you to think i was ignoring your question, though. I know it was a tough one to ask and i admire your guts in doing so.

We have submissive men here.
Everyone, sub or Dom/me was closeted at some point, and the vast majority of us still are, in many ways.

However, that "BDSM closet", "submissive men", and "negative things" worry of yours? It's common, i think. Even we who are women feel it since we're all supposed to be sexually equal these days, are we not? It must be harder for submissive men to be out, though, in the world. It just has to be.

However, within the BDSM world, subbie men are as accepted as subbie women. No one makes fun of us inside my world, PBW, because every single one of us, Dom/me or sub or Switch, knows that we need the others to be whole and fully functional people.

If you stand on a sidewalk and tell passersby that you're a BDSM submissive and you like to be bound and gagged and paddled hard before a good ass fuck, then you're definitely gonna get some some people thinking you're a major freak, male or female. It's what we all face in out daily lives looking out from the inside of of this lifestlye. We don't think we're major freaks, though. We know we're all just trying to do what's normal and right and healthy and good for us, individually and within our intimate relationships.

There have been a number of male submissives who have posted to this thread. I know it's a horrifying suggestion but maybe it's time for you to begin a perusal of this beomoth, beginning to end. Do three pages a day or something. That way you won't be quite dead by the time you get to the end.



Everyone?
Maybe it's time to PM Laurel and tell her that we need our own Forum here at Lit. We need specific threads devoted to toymaking, newbie concerns, health issues, how to find a partner, etc. This one thread has grown far too unwieldy to be of any real use to any of us. Should we get that Forum, i'd gladly volunteer to transfer individual posts to appropriate threads.

Don't you think it's time?

P. B. Walker said:

MysCynthia,

those are all very good questions to ask myself. Some of them I can answer right off.... but most of them kind of have a "well in this situation it would be this, and in that situation it would be that" kinda of answer. For example:



the answer to that very much depends on what I'm told (or asked) to do. If I were told to walk naked down a street in the middle of the day... HELL NO... if I were told to wear panties or panti-hose under my pants when I go to work... mmm I wouldn't want to do it but I would... and I would probably enjoy the novelity of it and knowing that I was following orders like a "good boy" lol. I guess it all depends on the how badly I don't want to do it. But the thought of tell or asking someone to do something like that is a turn-on also. And knowing it was a turn-on for the person I was telling to do such an action would be a turn on for me.

So... unfortunately I don't have any easy answers. Guess that's life... the answers aren't supposed to be easy. .

Anyhoo.. again, thank you all for the information.

- PBW

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So you like the idea of "being a good boy" but also like the idea of directing..... you sound like a typical switch. LOL

One thing you always have to remember is that all play is consensual. Would you walk down the street naked for the right person? Would you even want to be involved with someone who directed you to do something you TRULY did not wish to do?

Sex (be it BDSM, vanilla or otherwise) should be FUN.
If you have a partner now, sit down and talk to her. Play some games. Have some fun together. You'll soon discover what you like and what you don't.


One man's pain is another man's pleasure.
It's not pain; it's extreme sensation.

cymbidia said:

Everyone?
It's time to PM Laurel and tell her that we need our own Forum here. We need specific threads devoted to toymaking, newbie concerns, health issues, how to find a partner, etc. This one thread has grown far too unwieldy to be of any real use to any of us. Should we get that Forum, i'd gladly volunteer to transfer individual posts to appropriate threads.

Don't you think it's time?

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I suggested a seperate Forum quite a while back and was shot down so fast I still have the bruises. LOL

You are correct though; this thread is getting a bit out of hand.

In absence of a separate Forum how about just starting those threads with nice big CAPITAL BDSM 101, 102, 103 titles?

And a suggestion for you cym; write a book. You are so articulate, so clear in what you say and how you say it. Your knowledge amazes me.


One man's pain is another man's pleasure.
It's not pain; it's extreme sensation.

R, darlin', you weren't here. I hoisted the Semantics Mistress crown and slipped it over my head... and found it heavier than i wanted to carry around. By then, of course, i'd messed up.

this one?
You post any way you want to post.
I'm sorry i poked at you.
I musta been pms'ing or something.
Will you forgive me?

MysCynthia said:

I suggested a seperate Forum quite a while back and was shot down so fast I still have the bruises.

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You got shot down, i got shot down, everyone who has ever suggested this has fgotten shot down.

WriterDom and i suggested an "Alternative Sexuality" Forum to Laurel nine or ten months ago, MysCynthia.

She nixed it.

She's dedicated to Lit remaining inclusive rather than exclusive in all matters of sexuality.

However given the continuing life of this one thread, the various and twisty pathways we seek into with our questions, and the fact that it has become such unwieldy monster that no one but masochists will EVER read it again -and then only as punishments handed out by their Dom/mes- maybe now she might see our need for a place where we can more sedately and logically discuss the isses we need to discuss.

Let's pm her, though, guys, and ask her to come reply to us, okay? All together now...

Guess what, Ms. Big Mouth.

MysCynthia said:

how about just starting those threads with nice big CAPITAL BDSM 101, 102, 103 titles?

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Because when the search option is disabled, the earlier sections would be buried.

This board is a wonderful addition! YAY!

cymbidia said:

If you stand on a sidewalk and tell passersby that you're a BDSM submissive and you like to be bound and gagged and paddled hard before a good ass fuck, then you're definitely gonna get some some people thinking you're a major freak, male or female.

Click to expand...

I would strongly recommend against this method of expressing yourself.....

There have been a number of male submissives who have posted to this thread. I know it's a horrifying suggestion but maybe it's time for you to begin a perusal of this beomoth, beginning to end. Do three pages a day or something. That way you won't be quite dead by the time you get to the end.

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I'm still laughing over that. Damn thread almost killed me when it was only thirty pages. Another one of those defining moments I was talking about. I have no doubt that I'm some kind of masochist by now.

Time for The Beast to give himself a new sig line.....

Testing.

I hope I don't get in trouble for this.

A little knowledge is never a bad thing. *wicked grin*

Marquis said:

I hope I don't get in trouble for this.

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Regardless, congrats for having the balls.

Wow, Marquis, you must have been REALLY bored today, to dig clear back to a 3-year-old thread...

Jay Davis said:

Wow, Marquis, you must have been REALLY bored today, to dig clear back to a 3-year-old thread...

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This was the original thread on the GB before cym, among others, convinced Laurel to allow a forum for the topic.

Right, I just tripped over the thread in which Sir Winston suggested resurrecting it.

I was just kidding, but even so, my apologies.

Marquis said:

I hope I don't get in trouble for this.

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ROFLMAO, like anyone would dare!!!!!

Catalina