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Old 08-16-2017, 07:45 PM   #51
sr71plt
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An "oh by the way" on this statue of Robert E. Lee--it's not coming down until/unless the Virginia legislature changes a law (or someone does something on a recognized excellent work of art some night). There's been a law on the books in Virginia since 1950 that localities can't take down war memorials on public land in Virginia. Everyone knew that before this grandstanding in Charlottesville last Saturday. The city council's vote to take the statue down was put in suspension by a judge, reading the law back at them. Everyone involved knows a law has to be changed in the Virginia legislature to legally take the statue down and move it anywhere else.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:10 PM   #52
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Robert E. Lee V and family comment on Charlottesville:
In a statement, the Lee family said the life of the commander of the Army of Northern Virginia "was about duty, honor and country."

"At the end of the Civil War, he implored the nation to come together to heal our wounds and to move forward to become a more unified nation," the statement said. "He never would have tolerated the hateful words and violent actions of white supremacists, the KKK, or neo-Nazis."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/us/rob...val/index.html
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
An "oh by the way" on this statue of Robert E. Lee--it's not coming down until/unless the Virginia legislature changes a law ...


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CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) - The mayor of Charlottesville called Friday for an emergency meeting of state lawmakers to allow the city to swiftly remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee.

<snipped>

Signer said the attack has transformed the monuments from "equestrian statues into lightning rods." He called on Gov. Terry McAuliffe to convene a special session of the General Assembly.

"We can, and we must, respond by denying the Nazis and the KKK and the so-called alt-right the twisted totem they seek," Signer said.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/36165568/c...-of-lee-statue
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:20 PM   #54
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Well, yeah, but the Republicans have firm control over the state legislature. And a Virginia Republican ain't a liberal.

A point is that the Charlottesville City Council had been told that they'd need to get a change in the law before they helped start all of this. Their blue ribbon commission gave them an option of what they could do within the law until the law was changed--add context to the park--and they ignored the recommendation.
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:08 AM   #55
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Robert E. Lee he fought for state rights. people don't want to see that , one has to look at the
times and see how people thought back then to them state rights were more important
Then anything
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:04 PM   #56
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Robert E. Lee he fought for state rights. people don't want to see that , one has to look at the
times and see how people thought back then to them state rights were more important
Then anything
State sovereignty was embedded in the Articles of Confederation but minimized in the Constitution. States did and do not have the legal authority to secede nor, in many constitutionally-specified areas, to defy the federal gov't.

The treasonous souther Secession was always about states retaining the evil of slavery and a feudal power structure, i.e the 'right' of states to be ruled by land barons... like Gen. Lee. He fought for his own interests, not those of the nation he'd pledged to serve. His statues belong in cemeteries.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:36 PM   #57
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ruled by land barons... like Gen. Lee. He fought for his own interests, not those of the nation he'd pledged to serve. His statues belong in cemeteries.
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ruled by land barons... like Gen. Lee. He fought for his own interests, not those of the nation he'd pledged to serve.
You people demonize Lee personally too much. Sure, he led the army of defeated secessionists, so the argument that we shouldn't still have statues of him in public places is a good one, but he personally isn't the best example to dump all of the baggage of slavery and plantation system on.

He wasn't a land baron. He was a professional soldier (serving the United States with distinction up to the Civil War). He never bought or sold a slave and technically never owned slaves. He married into it. Arlington was his father-in-law's plantation; the slaves were his (about 200 of them) and when the father-in-law died in 1857, the slaves legally became his daughter's (who was a great granddaughter of Martha Washington). The father-in-law's will freed all his slaves when they could take care of themselves and the plantation could readjust to their loss. (Yes, the second part of that was self-serving, but the first part was reality. It wasn't doing the slaves any favor just to free them and turn them out into the world all on their own.) The daughter, Lee's wife, agreed with this and had, for years, been running a school for slaves (which was against the law in Virginia at the time) to help prepare them for life after slavery.

As executor of his father-in-law's estate, it took Lee until 1862 to get them all freed--but he managed it before the Emancipation Proclamation was enacted (and, as I noted elsewhere, the president of the United States at the end of the war, Andrew Johnson, himself didn't free his slaves until seven months after the Emancipation Proclamation was signed. You couldn't just free your slaves and have them set up to survive on their own later that afternoon). Lee's connection with slave ownership was as executor of his father-in-law's estate and taking five years to free what then were legally his wife's slaves. He was a professional soldier, not a land baron. The house/plantation he lived on didn't ever belong to him personally. The land was his father-in-law's/wife's, not his. Lee was publicly opposing slavery as early as 1856.

He had no personal interests in either slave ownership or the land baron system.

But, yes, he led the army that was trying to retain slavery (sort of--by the time of the Civil War, the South was already in train to back out of reliance on slavery itself.)

Where our Civil War differs from other civil wars in history is that the United States (eventually) intentionally went with reconciliation. And in this reconciliation, Lee was a key figure in working with southerners on this after war's end.

The problem of the statues is that most of them came after 1900 when there was a Jim Crow movement to put blacks back into virtual slavery. That's when most of the statues across the south "honoring" Civil War southerns went up. The Lee statue in Charlottesville was erected in 1924. This is where the argument holds to take them down.

Demonizing Robert E. Lee on the basis of slave owning or being a land baron is just irrelevant to historical fact and thus waters down the argument that he, as a person, is central to the issue.
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Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM   #58
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family of Robert E lee

Just listened to a few minutes of a interview on NPR of a forth great grandson of Robert E Lee Robert R Lee, he's is a twenty four year old Minister.

He compared the worshiped of the confederate statutes, to the worship of idols.

And of course as a Christian he has definite ideals about how this is wrong.
Speaking only for himself, the name and legacy of the Lee name is a heavy burden.
And is something he himself as a Christian and a man of the cloth struggles with.

I wonder if anyone has asked the direct descendants of Lee there opinions, of what is being done and said in theirs ancestors name. I would bet their opinions would be just as diverse as the country as a whole.

Last edited by bluekitty69 : Yesterday at 01:54 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old Yesterday, 02:03 PM   #59
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I wonder if anyone has asked the direct descendants of Lee there opinions, of what is being done and said in theirs ancestors name. I would bet their opinions would be just as diverse as the country as a whole.
You're a bit behind the curve. Lee's descendants have already weighed in, saying the statues of Lee should go. Same with the descendants of Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis.
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Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM   #60
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sorry

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You're a bit behind the curve. Lee's descendants have already weighed in, saying the statues of Lee should go. Same with the descendants of Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis.
Yeah looks like this question was answered in past posts, thanks for pointing that out.
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Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM   #61
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Yeah looks like this question was answered in past posts, thanks for pointing that out.
One of his great-great-great granddaughters has an Op Ed. piece in the Washington Post today asking that the Lee statues come down.
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Old Today, 10:56 AM   #62
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A historian explains why the alt-right’s rhetoric of white American heritage is pure myth

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Events in Charlottesville recently cascaded into domestic terrorism. Three dead and dozens wounded as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other “alt-right” members descended upon the university that Thomas Jefferson built; their purpose, it is alleged, to defend a statue – a monument – to the Confederate Civil War soldier, General Robert E. Lee. These radical rightists arrived from all across the United States upon the college town of Charlottesville to protect, in their words, their “white” heritage. Among the many problems I have with so-called “white supremacists” is their purposeful mixing of “heritage” with “history,” rhetorically pining for a once proud “white” America.

But history proves that America was never white.
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