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What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

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4est_4est_Gump said:
When held accountable for my own bullshit I frantically try to change the subject. Constantly. That way I can try to escape responsibility for my actions.
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And this is why people outside of your political niche don't respect you. One of the reasons anyway. Remember ol' Firespin? He was a dick but he tended to back his points and take responsibility for what he said. You should try to be more like him.
 
mercury14 said:
And this is why people outside of your political niche don't respect you. One of the reasons anyway. Remember ol' Firespin? He was a dick but he tended to back his points and take responsibility for what he said. You should try to be more like him.
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I don't know how to back my points to your satisfaction, in fact, I don't think anyone will ever be able to make the point to your satisfaction, but at least I tried.

When you call the President a liar and refuse to show him at least the respect of his office, then I'm afraid that we no longer have anything to talk about.

I know Democrats like to call it Capitalism, but when it is regulated, subsidized for outcome, controlled from the seat of power, etc., then it is no longer Capitalism, it is Fascism. The Democrats really like it if you own the business and take the risks, but they are not about to allow you to run it without a lot of oversight or excess profit. They've learned that when they take risks, like in green energy, it rarely pays off, so it's best to bankrupt that which you don't approve of.

President Obama spelled this out in no uncertain terms.

Calling it Capitalism is wrong.

If I start a thread today about Capitalism and it goodness, the people on your side of the aisle will crawl out of the woodwork to prove how much they hate and detest it, Republicans, Sarah Palin and especially the Tea party "radicals."

“I always use the word extreme. That is what the caucus instructed me to use this week.”
Senator Chuck Schumer

Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Barack Obama, Jun. 28, 2006

At the National Prayer Breakfast last week, seeking theological underpinning for his drive to raise taxes on the rich, President Obama invoked the highest possible authority. His policy, he testified “as a Christian,” “coincides with Jesus’ teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required.’”

Now, I’m no theologian, but I’m fairly certain that neither Jesus nor his rabbinic forebears, when speaking of giving, meant some obligation to the state. You tithe the priest, not the taxman.
Charles Krauthammer, NRO, February 2012

When I was asked earlier about, uh, the issue of coal. Uhhh, y'know, under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket....
We would put a cap-and-trade system in place, eh, that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're gonna be charged a huge sum for all that, uh, greenhouse gas that's being emitted.
Barack Hussein Obama
Editorial board meeting, San Francisco Chronicle
January 2008
obama-wide-grin80.jpg

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Chomsky on "American Libertarianism"

A great discourse on "American Libertarianism" by Professor Noam Chomsky

What's the difference between "libertarian" and "anarchist," exactly?

There's no difference, really. I think they're the same thing. But you see, "libertarian" has a special meaning in the United States. The United States is off the spectrum of the main tradition in this respect: what's called "libertarianism" here is unbridled capitalism.

Now, that's always been opposed in the European libertarian tradition, where every anarchist has been a socialist-because the point is, if you have unbridled capitalism, you have all kinds of authority: you have extreme authority.

If capital is privately controlled, then people are going to have to rent themselves in order to survive. Now, you can say, "they rent themselves freely, it's a free contract"-but that is a joke. If your choice is, "do what I tell you or starve," that is not a choice-it's in fact what was commonly referred to as wage slavery in more civilized times, like the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, for example.

The American version of "libertarianism" is an aberration, though nobody really takes it seriously. A society worked by American libertarian principles would self-destruct in three seconds. The only reason people pretend to take it seriously is because you can use it as a weapon.

For example, when somebody comes out in favor of a tax, you can say: "No, I'm a libertarian, I'm against that tax"-but of course, I'm still in favor of the government building roads, and having schools, and killing Libyans, and all that sort of stuff.

Now, there are consistent libertarians, people like Murray Rothbard, and if you just read the world that they describe, it's a world so full of hate that no human being would want to live in it.

This is a world where you don't have roads because you don't see any reason why you should cooperate in building a road that you're not going to use: if you want a road, you get together with a bunch of other people who are going to use that road and you build it, then you charge people to ride on it. If you don't like the pollution from somebody's automobile, you take them to court and you litigate it.

Who would want to live in a world like that?

It's a world built on hatred.

The whole thing's not even worth talking about, though.

First of all, it couldn't function for a second...and if it could, all you'd want to do is get out, or commit suicide or something. But this is a special American aberration, it's not really serious.

-Professor Noam Chomsky, Understanding Power, pp 200-201
 
While the corrupt media coordinates with the White House to attack Romney using the work of a high-profile Occupy Wall Street supporter, not only is unemployment increasing, but three years into Barack Obama's term and for only the fifth time in 33 years, wages fell.

NBC, CBS, ABC, The Washington Post, Politico, The New York Times, NPR, CNN... None of them want to talk about the beating the middle class and the unemployed and under-employed are taking in Obama's failed economy.

All the corrupt media wants to discuss is what Obama wants to discuss: War on Women, immigration, same-sex marriage, lies about Romney outsourcing, and now Romney's wealth...again.

Anything to distract and divide -- anything to keep the voters from comprehending how this president has failed and failed them.
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http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cewqtr.pdf
 
"We're starting to feel the infection now."

-- Michael Feroli, a J.P. Morgan economist, talking to The Wall Street Journal about the first monthly decline in Institute for Supply Management’s measure of U.S. manufacturing output since July 2009, including the sharpest drop in new orders since the plunge that followed Sept. 11, 2001.

The perversity of a continually crummy economy is that sometimes the best news for investors is bad news.
That’s the case with the surprisingly steep drop in manufacturing output in June. The measure slipped into negative territory for the first time since the American economy technically escaped recession three years ago.
It would seem logical that this would cause more anxiety in already roiled investment markets, but not so.

The news was so bad that it caused new hope that the Federal Reserve would engage in a third round of “quantitative easing,” which is the polite way to say that the U.S. central bank would conjure hundreds of billions of dollars into being and then buy up the investment holdings of private banks in a bid to get those banks to make loans with their profits. The Fed then sits on the investments until such time as markets are deemed stable enough to withstand their sale.

There is much debate over the efficacy of this practice, favored by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, but investors love it whether it works or not. A predictable jolt for the economy is something that can be profited from in the short term, whatever happens in the long run. Good or bad, any predictable event is an opportunity for profit.

The current slowdown is blamed on a cyclical contraction in global markets. Europe is deathly ill and locked in a debt spiral and China is coming down hard off of a stimulus-driven high that allowed the fast-growing nation to miss most of the global downturn.

The problems in those places weaken demand for U.S. exports and cause investors to pull back. Then as the U.S. slows, hopes fade in the other regions that America will again be able to provide the economic lift to push the rest of the planet forward.

It’s those things, to be sure, but it’s also that the moneymen haven’t a clue about what direction America is going to take this fall. The neck-and-neck U.S. election between two candidates diametrically opposed on how to revive the faltering economy has businessmen and businesswomen flummoxed. While there is big concern in the business world about Obama’s policies, there is also the worry about how high the stakes are in November.
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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/03/summer-slump-siphons-hopes-for-obama-surge/#ixzz1zesuNLWj
 
Sorry merc, but it looks like my now going on three-year old forecast is still valid...



Depression-like pattern with a few occasional, but brief, bright spots.
 
Many Americans are using the July 4 holiday as an opportunity to get away for the week, and there’s no better time to hide from dour headlines blanketing the financial press. Unemployment has hit a new record high in Europe, and while some progress was made in last week’s euro-zone summit, the continent’s leaders still lack a credible and cohesive plan to stop the death spiral of economic contraction and ever higher debt loads.


But even as fears of recession plague Asia and Europe, America had been fortunate enough to show consistent, albeit slow, job and GDP growth. But new manufacturing data released yesterday has many economists and pundits worried that the European crisis has finally washed up on American shores. A survey from the Institute for Supply Management (ISM) showed that manufacturing activity contracted in June, with its measure of new orders showing a steep decline into contraction as well.

Manufacturing had been one of the lone bright spots in an otherwise weak recovery, and such a steep drop in activity in the sector is a bad omen for the broader economy. Steven Blitz of ITG Investment Research believes as much, telling the Wall Street Journal:

“Assuming the pace of decelerating activity continues, and we make that assumption, it is only a matter of time before the service sector mirrors the real goods slowdown and overall employment gains move from sluggish to worse. The markets can continue cheering each new policy initiative adding liquidity to the capital markets, especially in Europe, but today’s ISM data proves out the bigger issue — insufficient demand for credit rather than an insufficient supply.”
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Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/07/03/has-the-european-slowdown-finally-hit-the-u-s/#ixzz1zeuRlpoi
 
CBO estimates that the health insurance that Obamacare mandates that employers must buy for each of their workers, or that every individual otherwise must buy, will cost on average about $15,000 per year for a family of four, just to start, growing robustly every year after that. Obamacare tries to make that palatable by adopting a new entitlement program providing federal welfare for the purchase of such insurance for families with incomes ranging over $100,000 per year in a few years, as the eligibility cutoff rises with health care inflation.

But those unrestrained health welfare handouts are paid for by taxpayers as well. So the Obamacare mandate tax becomes the entire $15,000 per family cost of the required insurance, including the welfare handouts to help pay it. That is close to $1.5 trillion per year, not the $1.76 trillion CBO now estimates for the next 10 years, which does not count what families and employers are required to pay for the mandated insurance. That $1.5 trillion per year and growing adds up to more than $15 trillion over 10 years! That is the full Obamacare mandate tax.

The employer mandate is a particularly egregious job killer, adding roughly $6,000 to $15,000 per worker per year to start to employment costs for jobs not now covered by health insurance. Even for jobs with current health insurance coverage, the cost of employment would still rise, because the new mandated Obamacare health insurance is likely to be more expensive than the employer’s current health coverage. Employers already seem to be reducing hiring in anticipation of these increased costs when the employer mandate goes into effect in a year and a half. To the extent the employer offsets these added costs by reducing what the worker would otherwise be paid, that means the workers suffer declining incomes.

That would all be on top of the tax increases now scheduled for next year under current law from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, which Obama refuses to renew for the nation’s small businesses, job creators, and investors. Along with the Obamacare tax increases also going into effect next year, that means the top two income tax rates would rise by nearly 20%, the capital gains tax rate would rise by nearly 60%, the tax on dividends would nearly triple, the Medicare payroll tax would rise by 62% for these disfavored taxpayers, and the death tax would rise from the grave with a 55% top rate.

That is all on top of the corporate income tax rate, which is already the highest in the industrialized world under Obama at nearly 40% counting state corporate income taxes on average. As noted here before, even Communist China sports a 25% corporate rate, while the social welfare states of the European Union average even less. Formerly socialist Canada now features a 15% federal rate, with Germany nearly that low. This leaves American businesses uncompetitive in the global economy. But under Obama there is no relief in sight.

Instead Obama has been barnstorming the country for over a year calling for still more tax increases. His Buffett rule would impose on America the fourth highest capital gains tax rate in the industrialized world, along with the highest corporate rate. And he regularly proposes still more tax increases on business, industry, savers, investors, and job creators. That is who he is talking about when he uses the crass term “the rich.”

This tidal wave of tax increases is the perfect formula to drive America into another severe recession next year, before we have even recovered from the last one. That means a return to double digit unemployment, and deficits soaring to over $2 trillion, with wages continuing to decline.
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http://spectator.org/archives/2012/07/05/how-to-defeat-and-replace-obam/print
 
And you're too much of a pussy to put a date on any of your predictions in order to evade responsibility for what you say.
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
I know. We're doing "fine."


;) ;)

Best economy in, what 400 years? Since the end of Mercantilism?
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You're 3+ years and counting into your failed predictions of depression, hyperinflation, deflation, stagflation, stock market crash...

How many years are you giving yourself on these predictions, wuss?
 
mercury14 said:
You're 3+ years and counting into your failed predictions of depression, hyperinflation, deflation, stagflation, stock market crash...

How many years are you giving yourself on these predictions, wuss?
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Quote me, or we go back to the daily proof that you lie.
 
mercury14 said:
And you're too much of a pussy to put a date on any of your predictions in order to evade responsibility for what you say.
Click to expand...

Obama put dates and numbers on his recovery and yet you attack me in order to not have to defend him...

Oh well, Obama has a defense of his own; it's kinda, what's the word of the day?

WUSSY?


Sideshow Barry Barker 2012 Says: "It's NOT the economy, Stupid!" It's the Birthers! The Tea Party! SARAH PALIN!
Bush!
BAD LUCK!!
RACISM!!!
ATMs, KIOSKs & CORPORATE JETS!!!
TSUNAMIS, TORNADOS, & the ARAB SPRING!!!
EARTHQUAKES & HURRICANES!!!!!
EUROPE’s €PIIGS!!!!!!!!
OBSTRUCTION!!!
Americans have grown “Soft!”
MY LIMP STAFF
Greece is the word!
Roman Noodles!
Iran and the Jews!
You're all LAZY!
Come on WORK WITH ME HERE!
I killed a lot of people people!
obama-wide-grin80.jpg

”’Shovel-ready’ was not as shovel-ready as we expected.” (Laughter)





... telephone operators...,


... the Internet...


Bush...

That wasn't me that gave drone technology to Iran!

Those Inscrutable Chinese!
Cheapskate CONGRESS!
I'm a VICTIM!
 
OH HALLELUJAH!

Happy Day!

JOY!

The private sector added 176,000 jobs in June from May, topping the increase of 105,000 expected, according to the latest employment report from payrolls processor ADP.

:cool:

If you ask me, I think what we're experiencing isn't in fact closer to a "growthless" recovery than to a jobless one. Because GDP started to grow more than a year and a half ago, but with the exception of just a couple of quarters, growth has not been noticeably above its trend rate of about 2-1/2 percent a year. I don't rejoice at the news that we added 216,000 jobs in March. About a hundred thousand of that 216,000 is needed every month just to keep up with the growth in the labor force. At this rate of job growth, it would take most of the decade to replace the eight 8-1/2 million jobs that were lost in the recession.
Christina Romer
Chairwoman of Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisors
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
Obama put dates and numbers on his recovery and yet you attack me in order to not have to defend him...

Oh well, Obama has a defense of his own; it's kinda, what's the word of the day?

WUSSY?

Sideshow Barry Barker 2012 Says: "It's NOT the economy, Stupid!" It's the Birthers! The Tea Party! SARAH PALIN!
Bush!
BAD LUCK!!
RACISM!!!
ATMs, KIOSKs & CORPORATE JETS!!!
TSUNAMIS, TORNADOS, & the ARAB SPRING!!!
EARTHQUAKES & HURRICANES!!!!!
EUROPE’s €PIIGS!!!!!!!!
OBSTRUCTION!!!
Americans have grown “Soft!”
MY LIMP STAFF
Greece is the word!
Roman Noodles!
Iran and the Jews!
You're all LAZY!
Come on WORK WITH ME HERE!
I killed a lot of people people!
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/04/obama-wide-grin80.jpg
”’Shovel-ready’ was not as shovel-ready as we expected.” (Laughter)


... telephone operators...,
... the Internet...
Bush...
That wasn't me that gave drone technology to Iran!

Those Inscrutable Chinese!
Cheapskate CONGRESS!
I'm a VICTIM!
Click to expand...
I took out all the formatting to make it readable.

Just in case anybody cares to read it.
 
merc, where the hell is that quote about how I said the constitutionality of of ObamaCare was going to wreck the markets?



I've been waiting a week now. Is all you know the art of "Serious Charges?"
 
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