Excerpt from my pending story.

This is my first go at writing a story. It's titled "He Likes Me". One of the main themes of it is going to be nonconsent, but that comes in later chapters. This chapter is mostly character building with some masturbation and consensual sex.
Tell me what you think. Does the opening grab you attention? Would you continue reading the story or read any additional chapters. Feel free to be as harsh as you deem necessary - I'm rather thick-skinned.

“I like you,” he said with a grin and a hearty laugh, unabashedly showing his pearly white teeth, which were striking against his ebony skin.

The teeth in question were quite straight; one of his front teeth had a small chip. Deep brown eyes framed by gorgeously thick lashes twinkled at her. Marie’s heart skipped a beat. Somewhere in the Aether, Cupid put away his bow and laughed.
As a woman of twenty-eight who had been married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her for a moment. Looking back upon that moment, she realized every decision she made after that had probably only been a rationalization; she had been hooked since that very first smile.

His words had been a response to her deadpan joke in the college cafeteria just moments earlier. There was a group discussion going on about whether monogamous relationships were truly possible. The debate was getting fierce, with people on both sides of the argument.

“The problem is, everyone likes a little strange now and again,” Marie had said.
Everyone cracked up, but for Marie there was an unspoken communication between her and the man she’d named “Mr. Pretty-Eyes” in her mind.

He likes me.
Mere seconds had passed since his declaration, but time had dilated for Marie while she struggled with her burgeoning lust. There was no mistaking the interest in Mr. Pretty-Eyes look either.

This is probably going to be trouble, ah, such sweet trouble.

I think the basic setup here is okay, but I felt pummeled with information in this intro, and none of it told me much about the characters. Yes, there was the physical description of the man, and that's fine, but it didn't do much for me. Maybe I just need to see more of the story, but all of that description that then backtracks to the conversation but ultimately ends up with "nice smile" didn't process well.

I don't mean this in a bad way, it's just an observation, but your opening is a lot like many openings in stories. Again this is not bad; many readers look for just this kind of thing, and they will be pleased to find it. For me, it was just kind of meh.

One specific reason for this is what I thought of as over-description. He can't just smile -- he has to "unabashedly" display his excellent teeth. Then his eyes are "gorgeously framed." It got to be too much.

I think I was also slightly confused, and again this is probably explained later, but is Marie a student at the college? It's not unheard of at 28, but it's kind of unusual. Is she on the faculty or the staff? Who is this group that's having the conversation?

Actually I would have been more interested to hear the monogamy debate than to read about his skin and chipped tooth. I think I'd enjoy "hearing" that discussion and getting to know the characters that way as opposed to the physical description.

Good luck with the story -- all of the above was just opinion, don't forget.

Thanks for the feedback. I was trying to be descriptive to convey Marie's obsessive personality traits. It will become more apparent later in the story. Marie is also an unreliable narrator; she is confused, thus her story is confusing. Also, I like big words.lol

Looks interesting. I'd read more if there was more. I can tell there's going to be some hanky-panky, and I love hanky-panky!

Some suggestions, if you don't mind:

Never start a story (flash, short, novel, whatever) with a weather observation or dialog. Neither one has any context for a reader to connect to. When a story opens with dialog the reader has to look for the context in following sentences and that interrupts the flow. But you have a great sentence to open this up with a bang - "As a woman of twenty-eight who had been married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her for a moment." We have a name and some personal information about her so whatever the next sentence is we already have something to latch onto.

Point of View (PoV). There seems to be a good mix of it, something you might consider changing to just one. "He likes me." might better read, "He likes me, Marie thought."

I've been told that a story must catch the reader in the first 200 words and I think you've accomplished that.

Good luck with your project. Hope to read it here soon.

In my original text, I had Marie's specific thoughts italicized. I pasted the text in to submit and lost the formatting. After some soul searching I've decided to put the thoughts in quotations. Most of her thought processed I've integrated into the narrative, but I wanted to convey a sense of internal dialogue. But, alas, there is no grammatically correct way to do so besides quotations or italics, so I've chosen the former. Also I'm taking your suggestion to make that the introductory sentence. Thanks so much for your feedback!

Myikael said:

Never start a story (flash, short, novel, whatever) with a weather observation or dialog.

Click to expand...

Whoa. Starting a story with dialogue--and providing confusion for the reader to get involved in working their way out to clarity--are popular and effective openings. And I use them a lot. And I get paid for doing so.

I even won a state short story contest by opening in the mid sentence of dialogue and ending it in mid sentence of dialogue.

(God, I wish amateur writers here would stop giving others rules about what approach they could take to writing)

Jezebellicose said:

As a woman of twenty-eight who had been married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her for a moment. Looking back upon that moment, she realized every decision she made after that had probably only been a rationalization; she had been hooked since that very first smile.

Click to expand...

pretty good. I love the subtle way you work in the exposition. There are words and phrases you can trim here and there but that is something a competent editor can do.

I don't like how you reuse the word "moment" between the two sentences. Reusing the same words is not always bad, but in this case it definitely sounds unoriginal and lacking inspiration. Lopping off the underlined "for a moment" doesn't change the meaning of the sentence.

Marie had said.

Click to expand...

It's "Marie said" and never followed by an adverb, urgh.

sr71plt said:

Whoa. Starting a story with dialogue--and providing confusion for the reader to get involved in working their way out to clarity--are popular and effective openings. And I use them a lot. And I get paid for doing so.

Click to expand...

I agree.

"To be born again," sang Gibreel Farishta tumbling from the heavens, "first you have to die." S.Rushdie - Satanic Verses. Instantly the setting of the novel is, errr, apocalyptic, surreal and intriguing.

I even won a state short story contest by opening in the mid sentence of dialogue and ending it in mid sentence of dialogue. (God, I wish amateur writers here would stop giving others rules about what approach they could take to writing)

Click to expand...

It's a discussion board, discuss it.

Don't be an arrogant "I'm better than you" jerk - explain your arguments.

Myikael said:

Never start a story (flash, short, novel, whatever) with a weather observation or dialog. Neither one has any context for a reader to connect to.

Click to expand...

I'm going to agree with Pilot on this one. I start lots of my stories with dialogue, and no one has ever complained. In fact I just went through my list of submissions, and all but four start with a line of dialogue, and a couple start with a character's thought.

I view this as a way of hooking the reader. Hopefully the reader will want to know who spoke, and why, and who they are talking to, or any number of similar questions. There are few absolutes in writing, if any, and your "never start a story..." is definitely not one of them.

Myikael said:

When a story opens with dialog the reader has to look for the context in following sentences and that interrupts the flow. But you have a great sentence to open this up with a bang - "As a woman of twenty-eight who had been married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her for a moment." We have a name and some personal information about her so whatever the next sentence is we already have something to latch onto.

Click to expand...

This wouldn't be a bad idea to open with, but personally I'd reword it. That's a long sentence.

Myikael said:

I've been told that a story must catch the reader in the first 200 words and I think you've accomplished that.

Good luck with your project. Hope to read it here soon.

Click to expand...

That's perhaps a decent guide, but it depends on the reader. I have read through probably a few thousand words before quitting, and other times I don't get past the first paragraph.

Jezebellicose said:

In my original text, I had Marie's specific thoughts italicized. I pasted the text in to submit and lost the formatting. After some soul searching I've decided to put the thoughts in quotations. Most of her thought processed I've integrated into the narrative, but I wanted to convey a sense of internal dialogue. But, alas, there is no grammatically correct way to do so besides quotations or italics, so I've chosen the former. Also I'm taking your suggestion to make that the introductory sentence. Thanks so much for your feedback!

Click to expand...

I think that putting thoughts in quotations is currently recommended by some style guides, such as the Chicago Manual of Style; others would know more than I would on that. Or, using no quotes or italics, and I have seen that done as well. Some of us, including me, still use italics, at least on this site. As long as you're consistent, I don't think it really matters.

For formatting on Lit, the most important element, I think, is to have a blank line between paragraphs. You can use certain HTML tags for bold, italic, underline, center and blockquote.

For internal dialogue, all you need is a line and follow it with an attribution, like:

"I've never been so attracted to someone," Marie thought.

litmlove said:

I agree.

"To be born again," sang Gibreel Farishta tumbling from the heavens, "first you have to die." S.Rushdie - Satanic Verses. Instantly the setting of the novel is, errr, apocalyptic, surreal and intriguing.



It's a discussion board, discuss it.

Don't be an arrogant "I'm better than you" jerk - explain your arguments.

Click to expand...

I gave it as an example. You don't need to know anymore than what I provided. If you want further examples of stories starting with dialogue, just go to my file and open a few.

And, yes, I get ticked off at folks here giving this sort of "rule" on how to write. It's nonsense.

And stop being argumentative and nasty yourself. You haven't posted stories here yet to demonstrate any expertise in writing.

"Had said" is grammatically correct. I was using the pluperfect tense. And why could a verb not be followed by an adverb, IDGI?

I've changed a few things based upon the suggestions given here. When to story is posted, I will give the link. I hope everyone who offered their critiques here will read it in its entirety and offer suggestions on how I can make any subsequent chapters more readable. Thanks everyone !

Jezebellicose said:

"Had said" is grammatically correct. I was using the pluperfect tense. And why could a verb not be followed by an adverb, IDGI?

Click to expand...

It can. Best to do it sparingly so that it doesn't become intrusive in the read, but adverbs were made to be used, and many self-proclaimed writing gurus overdo their "never" button about this issue as well as others.

“I like you,” he said with a grin and a hearty laugh, unabashedly showing his pearly white teeth, startlingly white against his ebony ski, (when I read striking the first time I though he was biting himself.)quite straight, except for a small chip in one front tooth. Deep brown eyes twinkled at her throughh gorgeously thick lashes. Marie’s heart skipped a beat. Somewhere in the Aether, Cupid put away his bow and laughed.

A woman of twenty-eight, married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her. Looking back, she realized every decision she had made after that moment had been a rationalization; she had been hooked since the very first smile.

His words had been a response to her deadpan joke in the college cafeteria moments earlier. There A group had been discussing whether monogamous relationships were truly possible. The debate had been growing fierce. (with people on both sides of the argument) (that is what makes it a discussion or debate)

Phrases like "Which had been", and "The teeth in question" slow the reader down and use excess words. I am not saying my rendition is the only possible one, merely that you should eliminate excess verbiage and tighten the story. I must say you do have a distinct style. You have my interest. Get me hard quick!

."

sr71plt said:

Whoa. Starting a story with dialogue--and providing confusion for the reader to get involved in working their way out to clarity--are popular and effective openings. And I use them a lot. And I get paid for doing so.

I even won a state short story contest by opening in the mid sentence of dialogue and ending it in mid sentence of dialogue.

(God, I wish amateur writers here would stop giving others rules about what approach they could take to writing)

Click to expand...

This thread is for editorial comments on Jezebellicose's scene, not for opinions about opinions.

I've created a different thread (http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1101795) in Authors' Hangout for arguments pro and con on opening with dialog so commenters can get back to commenting on the original post.

I'm inclined to agree with pilot in concept (but not in his delivery). Beginning a story with dialogue can be a very powerful technique to draw a reader into it, particularly because it isn't as common as other openings. It isn't for every story, but I think it certainly works at times.

When presenting an opinion, you might try starting with "I think" or "I believe" or something similar. Starting with "Never do this" or "always do that" doesn't sound like an opinion; it sounds as if you're stating a fact.

As for the thread hijacking: Welcome to the AH. You'll find more tangents here than in a trigonometry textbook. It's just the way it is, right or wrong.

As for pilot...this was a perfect example of why the "evil cabal" calls you out. You have a valid point to make, and instead of just making it, you feel the need to list out your supposed credentials and then shitting on people with your "amateur writers" line. It is that narcissistic arrogance that turns people off in a big way. Most just ignore you and go on their way, but there are some of us that call you out on your bullshit. Bullies don't like it when people stand up to them, and their first reaction is always to cry out that THEY are being bullied. Do you really want to help other writers out here? Stop being such an asshole, and you'll find that people actually begin to respect your opinion instead of being irritated by it.

Dialogue can be a great opener to a story if used to effect. The OP here doesn't build on his Wham! Bam! start but surely this would be a better opener without speech tag and an immediate shift to the woman's reaction. Dialogue openings are far less common in commercial fiction than sr and PL suggest and are used for dramatic effect.

One of my favorites is a Sheldon opener, "it must look like an accident. Can you arrange that?"

A weather opener is surely possible if it is to set the scene for events. "Eve set out in the pouring rain . . . "

To my mind, the first few paras of a story should be like flashing a garter belt to draw the punters in. Explanation can come later.

Personally I've opened with dialogue many times. While I prefer setting a scene first that's not to say opening with speech is bad, just difficult. Now with another chapter in the story I see no problem whatsoever to open with dialogue but as everyone says it is just better to make it easier for yourself and provide a scene before meeting the characters...

It all really depends on what you're trying to say, the story you're telling imo.

Swilly said:

As for pilot...this was a perfect example of why the "evil cabal" calls you out. You have a valid point to make, and instead of just making it, you feel the need to list out your supposed credentials and then shitting on people with your "amateur writers" line. It is that narcissistic arrogance that turns people off in a big way. Most just ignore you and go on their way, but there are some of us that call you out on your bullshit. Bullies don't like it when people stand up to them, and their first reaction is always to cry out that THEY are being bullied. Do you really want to help other writers out here? Stop being such an asshole, and you'll find that people actually begin to respect your opinion instead of being irritated by it.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Swilly, for what is quite possibly the best post made on any of the author concentric forums this year! Concise, deadly accurate, and the final sentence wraps it all up perfectly and truthfully.

Now if it will only be as well-comprehended as excellently as it was written...

Myikael said:

."

This thread is for editorial comments on Jezebellicose's scene, not for opinions about opinions.

I've created a different thread (http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1101795) in Authors' Hangout for arguments pro and con on opening with dialog so commenters can get back to commenting on the original post.

Click to expand...

Your editorial "comment" was an off-base, uninformed instruction (not even given as an opinion). Of course I'm going to point out to the OP that it's bad advice.

Myikael said:

."

This thread is for editorial comments on Jezebellicose's scene, not for opinions about opinions.

I've created a different thread (http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1101795) in Authors' Hangout for arguments pro and con on opening with dialog so commenters can get back to commenting on the original post.

Click to expand...

Threads go off track all the time, and discussing a point that's been brought up about the story in question doesn't seem that far off to me.

elfin_odalisque said:

Dialogue can be a great opener to a story if used to effect. The OP here doesn't build on his Wham! Bam! start but surely this would be a better opener without speech tag and an immediate shift to the woman's reaction. Dialogue openings are far less common in commercial fiction than sr and PL suggest and are used for dramatic effect.

Click to expand...

This is totally unscientific, but I went to the Amazon best-seller list for Romance books in the Kindle store and looked at the opening lines. A number of the books opened with a spoken line, or a character's thought, and a number didn't. It seemed about 50/50 to me although I didn't add it up. I realize this doesn't prove much, if anything, except to me it indicates that opening with a line of dialogue is about as common as anything else.

Jezebellicose said:

This is my first go at writing a story. It's titled "He Likes Me". One of the main themes of it is going to be nonconsent, but that comes in later chapters. This chapter is mostly character building with some masturbation and consensual sex.

Tell me what you think. Does the opening grab you attention? Would you continue reading the story or read any additional chapters. Feel free to be as harsh as you deem necessary - I'm rather thick-skinned.

Click to expand...

Sweet.

*rolls up sleeve*

Lock and Load!

“I like you,” he said with a grin and a hearty laugh, unabashedly showing his pearly white teeth, which were striking against his ebony skin.

The teeth in question were quite straight; one of his front teeth had a small chip. Deep brown eyes framed by gorgeously thick lashes twinkled at her. Marie’s heart skipped a beat. Somewhere in the Aether, Cupid put away his bow and laughed.

Click to expand...

The first line was huge. I mean, it should be precise and set up the tone of the story, which yours does, but not THAT well.

As a reader, I tend to glance through the beginnings of a story. If I like it, the read continues, if I don't I hit the back button. Your opening threw me off track and the structuring wasn't precisely put.

If I were you, I'd restructure it to something short, like this:

“I like you,” he said.

He had a grin. His pearly whites were a striking contrast to his ebony skin. His hearty laugh was charming as well as captivating.


What I've done here is simply whip your sentences into shape by breaking it. My three sentences are easier to read (At least it's easy for me, okay?!?!) and adds a character sketch to whoever your male protagonist is.

On to your next paragraph:

The teeth in question were quite straight; one of his front teeth had a small chip.

You don't really need this line. Extra lines praising his chipped/straight teeth can be visualised by the readers themselves. Who'd want to visualise a hero with crooked, nicotine-stained teeth?

Deep brown eyes framed by gorgeously thick lashes twinkled at her. Marie’s heart skipped a beat. Somewhere in the Aether, Cupid put away his bow and laughed.


I'd write whip it into something like this:

Marie's heart skipped a beat as she stared into his deep brown eyes which seemed to twinkle. Somewhere in Aether, Cupid put away his bow and laughed.


See what I did? Remove unnecessary lines which can be done without.

As a woman of twenty-eight who had been married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her for a moment. Looking back upon that moment, she realized every decision she made after that had probably only been a rationalization; she had been hooked since that very first smile.

His words had been a response to her deadpan joke in the college cafeteria just moments earlier. There was a group discussion going on about whether monogamous relationships were truly possible. The debate was getting fierce, with people on both sides of the argument.

“The problem is, everyone likes a little strange now and again,” Marie had said.
Everyone cracked up, but for Marie there was an unspoken communication between her and the man she’d named “Mr. Pretty-Eyes” in her mind.

He likes me.
Mere seconds had passed since his declaration, but time had dilated for Marie while she struggled with her burgeoning lust. There was no mistaking the interest in Mr. Pretty-Eyes look either.

This is probably going to be trouble, ah, such sweet trouble.

Click to expand...

Alright, I didn't go into much detail about whipping and editing your sentences, but I hope you get my drift.

Read your sentences out loud to see if they're flowing well or not. What is typed straight from the mind may sound weird when you actually read it aloud.

Overall, the story seems to read well and I'd say it's a nice piece. I get the tone and a hint of what might follow after this.

Take everything I've said with a grain of salt, okay?

I hope that helped.

Regards,

Bard.

As a woman of twenty-eight who had been married for over five years, Marie was no stranger to desire or resisting temptation, but the ferocity of her instant reaction to this man stunned her for a moment. Looking back upon that moment, she realized every decision she made after that had probably only been a rationalization; she had been hooked since that very first smile.

Click to expand...

Bard's post set me thinking on this, which I didn't mention before. I don't think these ideas particularly flow logically, and I'm not sure how important they are in general to the story, but that's up to the author to decide.

First off, I think the sentences are too long and convoluted. I would suggest, if I was editing, that the sentences be broken up into smaller chunks.

But as I said, it's the logic here that gets me. Marie is 28, and has been married since at least age 23, possibly 22; no problem. How does this mean that she's no stranger to desire, or resisting temptation? Being married at any age doesn't necessarily make the next bit true. And if Marie was married at what is a pretty young age these days, what kind of background did she have that even gave her time to be tempted? Did she cheat? Did her husband?

The next sentence also doesn't flow or follow for me. Suddenly she's looking back, but from where? It's like this future bit just injected into the present. The thought is fine, but I think it might belong elsewhere, perhaps even just a little earlier than it already occurs.

And all of this is just opinion and suggestion, and you'll have to sort that out yourself. It's your story, so you have to write what you want, and you'll never please anyone if you try to take all the advice that you get.