Women's Tastes In Writing

I'd like to start to get descriptions, which are as clear as possible, concerning what women tend to look for in erotica, and how that may differ from what men look for.

No rules, no right or wrong, just opinions. This may include content, presentation, style, dialogue, word choice, point of view selection, anything.

If it's easier, don't relate it to what men might want. Just clearly state what women do want, and definitely do not want to read.

What sort of writing do women like?

[Links to examples are welcomed.]

Rob_mDear said:

I'd like to start to get descriptions, which are as clear as possible, concerning what women tend to look for in erotica, and how that may differ from what men look for.

No rules, no right or wrong, just opinions. This may include content, presentation, style, dialogue, word choice, point of view selection, anything.

If it's easier, don't relate it to what men might want. Just clearly state what women do want, and definitely do not want to read.

What sort of writing do women like?

[Links to examples are welcomed.]

Click to expand...

Every women is different, and therefore their tastes in erotica will be different. What I look for will be different that what someone else will want to read.

What you might want to do is read erotica fiction written by women - most of us has a link to our stories in our sig lines.

personally, i like reading stories where the main character is describing action being done to her/him rather than describing action he/she is doing to another character.

---EDIT---

so, i decided to check out one of your stories to get a feel for how you write. i clicked on the first link in your sig, and even tho brother/sister incest isn't my thing, the story was very well written and very hot! i ended up reading all three installments. i can not speak for every woman here, but for me, your style is perfect.

fire_breeze said:

Every women is different, and therefore their tastes in erotica will be different. What I look for will be different that what someone else will want to read.

What you might want to do is read erotica fiction written by women - most of us has a link to our stories in our sig lines.

Click to expand...

I resonate with this answer as well. Good job, fire_breeze.

Reading erotica by women is a super clue.

For me - I tend to be open-minded and like more than the mundane. Passion is a key word I imagine for many women. Intensity of feeling... Maybe I'm a jaded reader, but a very long set up or scene setting kick-starts my ADD. If you can make a woman recall a very passionate, somewhat new situation in which she discovered a more intense feeling is what I'm trying to say - then I think you've got a hit.Great question to ask and it's nice that you're even considering your women readers in particular.

Good luck with it all.

This really isn't an easy question to answer because what I want to read changes with the mood I'm in and maybe how much time I have.

Once I've found a topic that interests me, I look for good character and plot development, accuracy, a smooth flow, excellent grammar and editing (e.g. removing stuff that doesn't really add to the story, overused words and mistakes). Generally, I appreciate realistic characters and storylines; I don't care for the pizza/pool guy being invited in to fuck a woman who's had a ton of cosmetic surgery in porn, either.

I often find long strings on dialogue tedious, and have yet to meet a story written in second person that I like. Most of my favorite stories are in third person, I think.

Thanks so far

qrayze -- Thanks much for the compliment, and the usefully specific answer. It helps to think that at least I'm on the right track, and that bit of input about point of view is important. In fact, it probably says something about the roles men and women usually play in society, as well as the bedroom (i.e. controlling verses "tended to"). A woman's perspective is naturally one of receiving, and I can see how that would subtly affect perceptions in a story and a woman's ability to empathize with the characters and situation (which isn't to say women aren't 100% giving... please don't take that the wrong way).

fire_breeze -- I agree, and I think it goes without saying that that's true about everyone, but there are core differences between most men and women. Certainly, men are more visual, while women use their other senses more, and men are less patient, while women almost demand more depth and involvement (and therefore more patience from a writer) -- or so I assume. But that's why I ask, to find out what I might be missing or even completely failing to think about.

As to your suggestion to read what women have written... valid, and I have, as well as what some women have favorited (i.e. what they like to read). It gives some clues (such as the fact that women like dialogue less, and descriptions more), but like the blind men and the elephant, as a man I sometimes can't know what I'm missing even if it's right there in front of me, just because my perspective is too wrong. [Hey! Here's a guy who finally stops and asks for directions, and you're telling him to just look at a map and figure it out for himself! LOL.]

Hhot -- Thank you, too. It's less specific, but I think an important point... try to find a relatively common memory, and evoke that passion, rather than trying to create it from scratch. That's a good tip.

SweetErika -- Last but not least, thank you as well. I think the realistic characters and storylines are important for anyone with a functioning brain (which admittedly excludes a lot of men when they're aroused). Your comment about dialogue is something that I'd inferred from looking at women's writing and favorites, and I'm glad to have it confirmed to some degree (and personally, stories that consist of nothing but dialogue bore me to tears).

On the comment about second person... I don't know if that applies to all women, but I personally despise second person stories (and first or first/second person stories). In erotica, to me, they come across too much as one person expressing a personal fantasy to another person, rather than as a story. That's not to say that it can't be made to work, but overall, it bothers me, so I only write in the third person.

So, thanks to all so far, this is very useful... but I'd still like to see more feedback.

I'm a woman. What I look for as far as erotica to read are steamy romance novels. Written descriptions of sex can vary from awesome to utterly boring, but what makes the sex meaningful and interesting to me is their contest of character development and relationship development. Each character must have a reason to admire the other, a reason to feel sorry for the other, and an unfulfilled need the other can help them with. The male love interest's appearance, voice, scent, personality, etc. should be described through the lens of the main character's attraction to them. The story must have a happy ending. All the stuff you'd read in a "how to write romance" book or webpage.

Also as a science fiction and fantasy fan I like to see worldbuilding used to create new and interesting sexual situations, whether it's first contact between humans and aliens and the first pair of cross-species lovers have to explain to each other what they like and experimentally feel their way toward a happy compromise, or the same thing where one partner is a fantasy creature like a mermaid, centaur, succubus, vampire, werewolf, etc., or magical bodily modification, or high-tech sex toys, or a spell that finds your soulmate with surprising results.

Rob_mDear said:

On the comment about second person... I don't know if that applies to all women, but I personally despise second person stories (and first or first/second person stories). In erotica, to me, they come across too much as one person expressing a personal fantasy to another person, rather than as a story. That's not to say that it can't be made to work, but overall, it bothers me, so I only write in the third person.

Click to expand...

It should be illegal to write in the second person.

I pretty much agree with what almost everyone else said, but I'll state the obvious: avoid numbers. If I encounter references to bra/cup sizes or cock size in a story, I immediately hit the "back" button.

eilan quoth:
it should be illegal to write in the second person.

Click to expand...

[trout-smacks eilan]

one of my favorite little stories i did was written 2nd person to see if i could make it work.



look, as a guy, i'm not gonna sit here & pretend that i've got some unique insight into the female psyche--but my style seems pretty accessible to women whose opinions i value. where i consider my style to be strong as erotica is in character-driven choreography and context for the sex. and i think it's important to conceive of it as choreography.

i mention this because consistently, every time this subject crops up here, those traits appear to be some of those prized by the female respondents in how to.

ed

Rob_mDear said:

<snips>

fire_breeze -- I agree, and I think it goes without saying that that's true about everyone, but there are core differences between most men and women. Certainly, men are more visual, while women use their other senses more, and men are less patient, while women almost demand more depth and involvement (and therefore more patience from a writer) -- or so I assume. But that's why I ask, to find out what I might be missing or even completely failing to think about.

As to your suggestion to read what women have written... valid, and I have, as well as what some women have favorited (i.e. what they like to read). It gives some clues (such as the fact that women like dialogue less, and descriptions more), but like the blind men and the elephant, as a man I sometimes can't know what I'm missing even if it's right there in front of me, just because my perspective is too wrong. [Hey! Here's a guy who finally stops and asks for directions, and you're telling him to just look at a map and figure it out for himself! LOL.]


So, thanks to all so far, this is very useful... but I'd still like to see more feedback.

Click to expand...

Actually, not really . It's handing you a map and telling you that there are many many roads to take, and encouraging you to have fun

I do have an issue with the idea of 'core' differences of the descriptions mentioned between men and women, at least when it comes to fiction, because it is in my opinion, blatantly untrue. I tend to get more feedback from men than I do get from women.

Personally, when it comes to erotica, I write and tend to read scenes as opposed to short stories. I prefer short slices of life, so to speak. Maybe there's a plot, maybe there isn't. For me, the joy comes from the visual that the author paints. It's the images that are inspired by words, the eloquence of the phrases, what a paragraph mentally invokes that makes me want to read a particular story as opposed to a plot and the 'depth'. But that's just me.
Granted, that being said, I've read some wonderful stories that are plot driven (SweetE's comes to mind, as well as Morrigu's and de-valmont), but my tendency is to write short scenarios, and those are the types of erotic fiction that I tend to gravitate towards.

As a writer and an editor, I'd suggest that you write for yourself in a style that suits you. Yes, we'd all dream for the world to love our work, but I can spot a story written for a specific audience a mile away, and if it the author is not comfortable, it makes me, as a reader, very uncomfortable.

Your kilometerage may vary.

Eilan said:

I pretty much agree with what almost everyone else said, but I'll state the obvious: avoid numbers. If I encounter references to bra/cup sizes or cock size in a story, I immediately hit the "back" button.

Click to expand...

I think most (intelligent) readers would agree. I actually have five stylistic approaches that I try to enforce here.

First, I almost always describe any physical (as well as other) characteristics from the perspective of another character, as if that person is seeing/thinking/describing the person. This way, everything is vague, and is a perception. Focus is on whatever is important or appealing to that character. This is particularly important, I think, when it comes to beauty, because the point isn't whether or not the person is attractive to the reader, it's whether the person is attractive to the other character. Beauty (or attraction), in that context, is defined by the desires and perspective of the character, not the reader.

Second, I try as often as possible to give characters at least minor physical flaws. They aren't always harped on, but merely mentioned, but I feel like readers always want a character to be normal. It's irksome to read about people that are so much more beautiful than one's self (at heart, we're all insecure) that it's unreal.

[That said, I broke this rule once, because I felt the story required it, and I got shit for it. Now, years later, I realize that the story didn't need it at all, and I regret having done it. Lesson learned.]

Third, when possible I try to let characters give their own self-perceptions, either while dressing and looking in a mirror, or comparing themselves to others, or just tangentially thinking about their own presentation (what they are planning to wear, or how they manage their hair, or whatever). This will often, too, be at odds with how others have perceived them (e.g., they think their own nose is too large, when someone else finds it to be their most appealing feature).

Fourth, I try as hard as I can not to obviously pack this stuff together, as in "this is where the author tells you what the character looks like." I try to sprinkle this stuff around, both so the reader doesn't feel sledgehammered, and so that, as in real life, a character grows on the reader and becomes more familiar over time, rather than being presented in total, all at once.

Fifth, and last, I try not to get carried away, and to keep things vague. The reader only needs to know a bit about how I want a character to look. I don't need to give them a complete, itemized list. For one character, it may be height and hair color, for another it may be the cast to their eyes and complexion. But the reader can and should use their imagination, and fill in the blanks with whatever might appeal to them, once I get them started. No character needs to be physically completed, they just need enough to help the reader begin to form an initial mental image. Obviously, too, behavioral and motivational attributes are far more important to both the story and the reader, if they're going to feel involved, so physical attributes need to be given in just the right measure.

I feel like all of these techniques are both more subtle, and more to the point (i.e. it doesn't really matter what a character looks like, what matters is how they perceive each other, and what attracts or repulses them, physically and mentally and emotionally).

That's just my two cents, though. I'd welcome suggestions for other subtle approaches to the problem... or criticisms and insights to this approach.

fire_breeze said:

I do have an issue with the idea of 'core' differences of the descriptions mentioned between men and women, at least when it comes to fiction, because it is in my opinion, blatantly untrue. I tend to get more feedback from men than I do get from women.

Click to expand...

Hmmm. I've actually thought about this a lot, and I'm different in that I divide people who read (or at least, those with whom I've interacted at length) into six categories, three each for male and female, and I find each to be very, very different (and I've had readers in all six, although I ignore one group as a waste of my time).

It's interesting that you get more feedback from men. I do think men make up the bulk of the readers on the site (I'd love to see a statistic on that, actually), but I also get some of the worst and most abusive feedback from men (although to me that sort of feedback usually says a lot more about the reader than about my writing). Women seemingly only have good things to say, or they say nothing.

But on my six groups, male and female, in three categories: (1) so young they're just oversexed, and inexperienced (2) middling-young (from my perspective) and healthy, but inhibited in some way that reduces their sex lives below what they'd choose, and (3) older/mature and afflicted with something that seriously reduces their sex lives far below what they'd choose -- leaving erotica as a last, best option to fill the void.

[And of course there will be people that don't fall into any category well, but I do feel that these cover the bulk of all readers -- and writers.]

Each of these groups reads erotica for different reasons, and with a very different perspective and intent, and so the style of writing very much affects what they will or will not enjoy.

I do, ultimately, write for myself, but I also write for my material to be read and appreciated. I have to have both, self-satisfaction and a feeling of having done something that someone else actually enjoys. With that said, I don't want or need to be all things to all people, so I've tried to choose an audience that includes the sort of people that I'd like to meet in a coffee shop to just chat with. Everyone else can take or leave my work, and I don't much care which.

Which is why I started this thread.

fire_breeze said:

Personally, when it comes to erotica, I write and tend to read scenes as opposed to short stories. I prefer short slices of life, so to speak.... but my tendency is to write short scenarios, and those are the types of erotic fiction that I tend to gravitate towards.

Click to expand...

This is interesting, because it does mirror how I write. I prefer to write short stories, or create longer novels as collections of related and connected or interwoven short stories. I create characters, motivations, and situations, and then I can write a long novel completely out of order, jumping hither and thither as the mood takes me, then revising, reordering and integrating as time goes on, to fit it into a more cohesive whole.

I know this has been said but I'll echo it again; I am not a fan of writing that gives priority to the visual. If I want detailed physical descriptions I'll watch pornography. What I like to read is also what I aspire to write -- getting into the subjective experience of sex, how it feels physically, what it sparks mentally.

I tried to write from the POV of a woman before, but I think I made them more masculine than feminine, accidentally putting a little of my personality in the characters. (See Thug Passion and Liquid Bullets) They were in a more dominant position than usual, but I've gotten great responses from female readers who liked seeing a woman with a stronger persona. I had a friend ask me the other day if all of my female characters were so forceful. It's much harder to write as a female than I thought.

I often write from a male point of view even though I'm female. I don't know why I started doing it. It just felt right. As for what I look for; I enjoy stories where some time and effort is spent on character development and a bit of back story. I don't want to walk into a story with two people fucking when I don't know what led them to that point in the first place. I like stories that are crafted in such a way that the tension builds slowly, so that by the time the characters are finally able to come together my own arousal is at its peak.