Catch a Woman's Attention

STOP. I'm not saying generally, there is a VERY specific question here, please forgive the blanket title to catch you attention. Before I fully ask the question, let me give some information.

I am a boudoir photographer and a part of my job is appealing to women. I offer my services to a very selected demographic. In fact, I can figure out WHO is and who isn't my client with one question. "Why do you want a boudoir session?" If the answer is for anyone BUT herself... I'm not interested.

I have very specific criteria that I want to have met in order to ensure that my services will be most appreciated.

1. I'm NOT going to try to sell her. If she doesn't WANT boudoir photography... I'm not going to peddle it to her.

2. I'm not shooting generic glamour. I shoot a VERY artistic and elegant type of boudoir, I don't hold anything against the McBoudoir shops BUT to me boudoir is an intimate and personal experience. My ideal work has a definite sexual undertone. It IS, afterall, all about finding strength in the feminine sensuality and sexuality... OWNING your nature.

3. It's NOT price based. Yes, I'm expensive. But I'm up front that it costs between $1,000 and $3,000 for everything all included. I don't want to hem and haw about price, I'm not trying to capture the value shoppers.

Ok so... I am trying to find the best way to reach the women who will most WANT my photography. I know they exist... I catch one every once and a while. BUT I want to increase the funnel and catch the RIGHT kind of attention.

Knowing MOST of you are NOT in my immediate are, know that this is NOT a sales thing. I'm doing research. Trying to find out more about women overall... you ARE my ideal customers! Yes, I'm married and I know every woman is different BUT I grew up on Lit and know there are quite a few more open sexually women here. I'd LOVE to get your input and a hint on how to better attract women like you so I can knock the boudoir experience OUT OF THE PARK!

Thank you! If you read through this WHOLE thing... you're amazing. I love you forever!!

but then there is this

MattiasGraves said:

BUT I grew up on Lit and know there are quite a few more open sexually women here. I'd LOVE to get your input and a hint on how to better attract women like you so I can knock the boudoir experience OUT OF THE PARK!

Click to expand...

You just entered into the realm of personal instead of quality photography, trust and professionalism.

It reads like you are just a little too eager for what potential clients may offer you.

Oh, don't lead with something that you immediately attempt to retract. The very fact you used "Catch a Woman's Attention" implies it is all about you and your photography is just a lure. Your attempt to immediately distance yourself from that statement will be received with doubt.

If you are perceived to be "Mr Creepy with a camera" by just one person, who then shares their opinion, could ruin your career before it kicks off.

Forgive my awkward and sometimes eager communication as I tend to ramble and flail. My question was NOT regarding my professionalism nor the quality of my photography. I approached this board on a personal level NOT as a photographer but as a man looking for some wisdom.

I intended to explain (briefly) my artistic stance and a short view of my approach, if only to give a slight taste of my personality.

But, NightL, you are right. I chose To Catch a Woman's Attention in place of …Market to the Female Persuasion, Focusing on What They Need and How I Can Bridge That Gap Without Selling Or Coming Across as Another Gross Guy With A Camera.

You see, as someone who has approached this field and been working in it for the past decade I have proven that I am NOT just a Mr Creepy with a Camera. Instead, I am a passionate artist who is ALL about elevating my clients... helping them to find strength in their sensuality and sexuality in a way that FIGHTS against what our culture is currently forcing down our throats. To OWN their femininity and be PROUD of what they have and who they are.

My ideal client is between the ages of 30 and 60 and has spent anywhere from 5 years to twenty taking care of her family... tying up lose ends... getting lost in her JOB as mom and has likely forgotten that underneath that set of mom-jeans lies a WOMAN; red hot and fiery. She's unique and she's a Rockstar!

Now if any of THAT came across as a LURE or at ALL really about me... I think you've read me wrong.

I TRULY do need help in figuring out some way to approach my ideal clients and maybe even find more that aren't being exposed to my message in my local area. I had hoped that coming here, I'd find a selection of women who can put down their guard thinking I'm trying to sell TO them (because I'm honestly not... I need help!) and help me understand how I can communicate my "why" and the experience in a more concise way.

Why would a woman want this type of photo for herself? And if she did, wouldn't she be the stuck on herself type? I dunno. Those kinds of photos never appealed to me. And oddly enough, the few women I know who have had them done were women who hated sex!

One was a woman I used to work with. To me, she oozed sexuality. She had been married several times. All for money. Not love. I remember once she saw how much money I was making and said very laughingly to me, "You haven't been sleeping with the right people!" Now I love sex but I would prefer my promotions to be based on merit and not who I slept with. Yeah, when I was younger, a manager had a thing for me so he went out of his way to do what he could to make my job easy and therefore allow me to climb the ladder quicker. There was some flirting on my part but I never considered sleeping with him.

So while I know that she did have sex, she was most vocal about, running around telling everyone how disgusting it was. She also bought tons of disposable douche ever week. This woman was cute! Very tiny little thing. Great smile. Always seemed happy. Rarely wore pants. Always short dresses and heels. Could have played a dumb blonde quite easily except that she had dark, almost black hair. She ate nothing but candy and junk food so I have no clue how she stayed so tiny. She didn't know how to cook or clean or do anything a far as upkeep of a house. But I digress.

We all knew that she was getting her pictures done. She had them done for her husband. Apparently he's a keeper. She got married before I did and they're still together. So married for probably at least 25 years. He was much older than her so he would be quite elderly now. Anyway...

I remember her showing us the pics. We had a hard time finding a kind word to say about them. Normally she looked cute and sexy to me but this place turned her into something that she wasn't. Like clothing she would never wear, too much makeup, weird hair, uncomfortable looking pose. Yes the stuff she had on should be considered sexy but she looked anything but sexy in that pic. That stand out in my mind.

I felt the same with the other pics I've seen like that. Not sexy and not the person I knew. Most had them done for their husband or BF. Some had them done for a future husband or BF. That seemed kind of weird.

But seriously... Who wants to sit around looking at a pic of themselves? Bedroom or otherwise.

Now... I may get some flack for this because I recently posted some pics of myself online. No, I won't post them here but I know some here have seen them. One was sort of what I would consider a Pin Up type pose. I was just bored and feeling silly and goofing around. I didn't go out and buy anything and it wasn't a professional photo. I can't say that I had someone take that pic for anyone in particular. I don't think I had a BF at the time, but it wasn't really for me either. So... *shrug*

There are quite a few reasons women have reached out for boudoir sessions. Weight Loss, Divorce, Birthday Milestones, Career Promotions, and some women just like getting dolled up and capturing THAT feel forever. I recently had a police officer who had just ended a really ROUGH and violent relationship. It was moving to watch her react to the images after.

I've seen a lot of those uncomfortable photos as well. It's very unfortunate. A majority of the women who I have reached out to and had a conversation with have had at least one bad boudoir experience where they felt awkward and exposed... the whole experience was awful and when they got the photos back after they were left looking at their face with a weird body and an a way they didn't recognize. That's what I call the McBoudoir approach and I HATE it! (I'm not going to talk bad about other photographers intentionally) But I get it. That's actually why I started in portrait... mostly candid... photography. I strive to capture HER... the REAL personality. Her beauty and essence.

It's not a matter of sitting around and looking at yourself. It's more capturing THIS moment in time so that in ten... twenty years you can look back. For some women it also serves as a milestone. Within the session, though I keep it light and fun, something happens; these women find their inner peace and settle into their skin. Looking at the photos after is like a reminder that she IS beautiful and powerful.

Thank you Jada, I really appreciate your insight. Maybe check out Sue Bryce or Jen Rozenbaum, they've both been INSTRUMENTAL in my boudoir education and they can probably shed better light on why someone who doesn't already want to do a boudoir session might consider it. Not to mention they're amazing ladies!

What else does your prospective client like, or would be looking for at that particular time in her life? Like for instance - lingerie, or maternity clothes, or birthday cake? I mean, I've no clue what they may like, but there's probably something. Then you find a way to reach them there and then. A well-placed ad or a stack of brochures at a lingerie shop may do the trick. Get to know your target audience and you'll know how to advertise.

Ooo great questions!

For the longest time, I felt silly trying to come up with profiles for my ideal clients. That was until I found one! Well... she found me, online too far to shoot

My perspective client is the type who goes as plain as she can because she doesn't want to draw attention or spend money on herself because as she considers an expensive haircut or a manicure she thinks of the kids baseball cleats or her husbands torn slacks and the kids dentist appointment that's sure to end with a few cavities. She says she likes cheap wine but just because she wants to fit in with her friends who DO like wine but can afford the nice stuff.

She used to be a really cool dreamer who fancied herself as an actress or a musician or... some kind of creative. But when the bills came in and the kids blessed her life the number in her bank account mattered more than her long dreamed experiences.

She longs to feel desired by her husband. She may even feel like she has another child rather than a partner... an equal. She LONGS to be swept off her feet and be in his unerring focus. And she may even come in saying she's there for him. To try to remind him that she's still... sexy.

But when she opens up it's actually HER she's trying to remind she can still be sexy. She hasn't lost anything when she picked up the mom-badge. In fact, she gained something... maturity. And that is one of the SEXIEST qualities!

She doesn't have much time and needs quick sessions and fast turn around. She is probably going to be able to do the session while the kids are in school and the husband is at work. She's likely to feel more comfortable in a bedsheet or a sweeter than fancy lingerie.

She may have even tried a boudoir photographer before and left disappointed. The images looked weird, she picked herself apart and instead of seeing the beautiful woman that the rest of the world sees she saw every flaw.

That being said, I've approached the only local lingerie shop who occasionally do wine meets at their shop after hours. I've asked the owners out to a coffee and they've been receptive to it.

I have also reached out to the local sex shop, they've got a really cool DIY Halloween contest going on... I was thinking a quick boudoir session might be a nice prize for some one to receive.

I'm also trying to do as MUCH market research as I can because come spring we're relocating to Tampa and I'll need to establish and start turning a profit ASAP. If I can even do a little pre-relocation work, it'll be even better. (That being said, my in-laws all live down there so we do stop through occasionally so a meet and greet with the businesses is definitely a possibility).


So that's the ladies. I watch photographers like Michael Sasser (check him out on YouTube) or Jen Rozenbaum and I LOVE their approach and their ability to draw in clients. All I'm getting is a steady stream of models, which is flattering... but I need to start making money NOT paying money.

Ok, you've just described most married women I know On the plus side, that means your pool of potential customers is pretty wide. The trick is catching them when they'd be interested in your service - so back again to figuring out what they'd be up to at that time. I mean, yes sure, she's been married and a disappointed dreamer and all for a while - but now, of all times, something's changed - a birthday? a wedding of a friend? a new job? - and suddenly she's doing something diffeent. Getting a new haircut. A new skirt. A fancy chocolate. I don't know what, that's a job for a market reseracher, but you can probably figure it out if you know your clients. You want to catch them when they're receptive to what you're offering.

Maybe try online ads? You can narrow down your audience to target region, age, interests, search history, etc., and still reach lots of people in a relatively private way.

Though it seems to me, if you need money quickly, you could just get some more commercial work. What you describe is pretty niche, and if you aren't established, I'm not sure what the chances are of getting just the kind of work you want, just when you want it, right where you want it. Maybe do some plain commercial work to bridge over the financial gap. It can help show off your skills and show you aren't, as NightL pointed out, just a creep with a camera. Personally, I'd have an easier time trusting a photographer with an interesting body of work, both in terms of him not publishing the photos where he shouldn't, and simply that his style is what I'd like.

Good luck

Some interesting thought has gone into this.

Suggestions for advertising. Think like your target clientele. Where do women go to make themselves feel good? Where do women feel good, just being there? Some specific suggestions: Flower shops. High-end chocolate shops. Beauticians. Lingerie stores. Bridal shops. Many such stores will pass out business cards and display ads.

There are occasional fairs or events aimed at women; bridal shows are just one such. Consider advertising in their brochure or guidebooks, maybe even run a small booth if you have some suitable framed samples.

Second thought. Sex shops and such are fine, but the link is entirely on sex, which is just one aspect of boudoir photography. By sticking with sex, you will miss a lot of opportunities to appeal to a lot of deeper, more complex aspects of womanhood.

He sounds a LOT like my soon to be ex husband. He has told every woman in the neighborhood they are beautiful, But Me... he also takes boudoir shots, again, not of me. He uses the collection of the nudes to show off to his buddies. PERIOD. It is unattractive, to say the Least. He is a delusional herpes spreading liar, and uses women as narcissistic supply. They are not even HUMAN to him. He took his ex to the Hollywood Bowl ONCE, and wore a disguise (as he was cheating on ME) ... She always paid for half the hotel room. But , he LOVES Women

The teams I know who have been successful in this area promote themselves as a collective of highly skilled and experienced people. The photographer is no more important than anyone else.

Makeup
Hair
Costuming
Photoshop/Graphic Design
Oh - and the photographer

of course not to dismiss location specialists and caterers

and yet here you are MattiasGraves, a little too obsessed with the fantasy of your ideal client

edit:
a little too obsessed with the fantasy of your ideal client - and of yourself

your potential clients require a professional service, they are not seeking you as an individual.

You go through great lengths to describe how you’re not a creep but the photographer doth protest too much, methinks.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but it seems you’re basically interested in seeing naked MILF’s in a CMNF scenario.

But I got to thinking ‘Okay, so what if I was interested in getting some boudoir photography done?’.

A quick search in YELP and a couple of dozen show up; arbitrarily eliminate the ones who don’t have a brick & mortar studio, eliminate the photographers who aren’t women and eliminate those without a fair amount of reviews.

I still have four potential photographers; all women with established storefronts who make their living as photographers. They do weddings, portraits, car shows, parties and, you guessed it, Boudoir Photography.

It’s would cost between $500-$700, because they are professionals and will stage it appropriately.

But I’m sure I could find a guy, probably a few, just like you with a digital camera and narrow interest that would do it for free. Sorry but you’re clearly going to have to keep paying for ‘models’ to indulge your fetish.

The world needs more men with a fetish for keeping my linen closet organized than snapping Hootchie Mama photos. That would be a much easier sell.

ann_alter said:

you can probably figure it out if you know your clients. You want to catch them when they're receptive to what you're offering.

Maybe try online ads? You can narrow down your audience to target region, age, interests, search history, etc., and still reach lots of people in a relatively private way.

Good luck

Click to expand...

Ann, thank you so much! I'm glad I've got a pretty close profile. I DO think I need to trim it down a bit. I think by focusing on women who are looking for that experience (while I MAY miss out on a few clients) I think it will be better for me as an artist and the brand in a long run.

TarnishedPenny said:

Some interesting thought has gone into this.

Suggestions for advertising. Think like your target clientele. Where do women go to make themselves feel good? Where do women feel good, just being there? Some specific suggestions: Flower shops. High-end chocolate shops. Beauticians. Lingerie stores. Bridal shops. Many such stores will pass out business cards and display ads.


Second thought. Sex shops and such are fine, but the link is entirely on sex, which is just one aspect of boudoir photography. By sticking with sex, you will miss a lot of opportunities to appeal to a lot of deeper, more complex aspects of womanhood.

Click to expand...

Penny, right on! I've been making a list of salons in the area as well as personal trainers and gyms. Tattoo artists and Chocolate oh my! I've got a date for coffee with the two local lingerie shop owners. I'm NOT necessarily looking for an immediate fix from them, instead just a successful relationship where we can both help each other's businesses. They often have women's nights-after hours. I'd LOVE the chance to stand up and speak. But only if THEY think I'll be well received my their clientele.

I was worried about the sex shop thing too. I want to avoid coming across as a surface-level sex worshiper. I really want my clients to be able to find their strength and authentic self in their own sexuality. It doesn't mean it HAS to be sexy though. In the sex shop I was actually thinking about more getting to know the owner/employees and maybe getting some word of mouth referrals through them.

SweetHeartbreak said:

He sounds a LOT like my soon to be ex husband. He has told every woman in the neighborhood they are beautiful, But Me... he also takes boudoir shots, again, not of me. He uses the collection of the nudes to show off to his buddies. PERIOD. It is unattractive, to say the Least. He is a delusional herpes spreading liar, and uses women as narcissistic supply. They are not even HUMAN to him. He took his ex to the Hollywood Bowl ONCE, and wore a disguise (as he was cheating on ME) ... She always paid for half the hotel room. But , he LOVES Women

Click to expand...

Sweetheartbreak, I'm so sorry to hear about your turbulent relationship with your "soon to be ex." We men often forget the power of our actions and words. It's 100% not ok what he did.

One of the biggest battles I fight every day is the "GWC" (guy with a camera). They have ZERO respect for our clients or our industry and they give all male photographers a really bad name. I can say (based off of the people I've met) there are WAY more (I'd say 75%) of men in the industry who are on the right path and have nothing but love and respect for our clients.

My clients (the few that I have) REALLY love the level of discretion I offer as I do NOT use client images anywhere. My portfolio is only paid models. With some clients I shoot the images, edit, and print myself. I can ensure that their are only four eyes that will see them, mine and theirs after they receive their images, I retain the images for 60 days. After that, I erase them. There is NO sharing or leering with the "buddies."

A few of my clients have been through similar painful situations like you. The ones who choose to come to me are searching... looking for that spark within them that screams "woman!" They want to reclaim their beauty and confidence and I can't tell you how MOVING it is to be a part of that process. It's humbling and an incredible honor.

NightL said:

The teams I know who have been successful in this area promote themselves as a collective of highly skilled and experienced people. The photographer is no more important than anyone else.

Makeup
Hair
Costuming
Photoshop/Graphic Design
Oh - and the photographer

of course not to dismiss location specialists and caterers

and yet here you are MattiasGraves, a little too obsessed with the fantasy of your ideal client

edit:
a little too obsessed with the fantasy of your ideal client - and of yourself

your potential clients require a professional service, they are not seeking you as an individual.

Click to expand...

NightL, I assure you I have NOT lost sight of the "team." However, I think you also may be reading too far into where I am and what team I have at my disposal. At the moment, it's a team of one. ME. I DO work with HMUA's but not a consistent ONE. (And I'd LOVE to have one on staff... I just can't afford it). I'm not a commercial studio... I'm one man trying to make a difference in the world around me.

I NEED to sharpen my vision of my ideal client because by doing that I learn to communicate more effectively and attract the women who I can help the best. And in doing THAT I can put food on the table for my family.

To be honest, the "team" you assume I am overshadowing would pump my operating budget up to the point where my $1,000-$4,000 cost would HAVE to cost $5,000-$15,000 and I don't know many women who would be willing to take THAT money away from their families. I'm not working for a magazine or a modeling agency... I want to work with "regular" women... mothers, sisters, daughters, teachers, doctors, lawyers, retail workers... WOMEN.

MOST studios that work well on this level... the job of the photographer:
*Concept Design
*Costuming
*Sales
*Post Production
*Marketing/Promotion
*Accounting
*Set Design
*Employee Management (IF and it's a BIG IF... they have an assistant or HMUA on call)
**Oh... and photography.

Job of the HMUA (usually ONE person):
*Hair and Makeup
*Client Relations (warming up the client so she can come in relaxed and ready)
**Potentially marketing in HER network. (I say her because I try to be the only male on set)

That having been said, have you had a boudoir session? The more people in the room... the LESS effective the process can be in putting down those walls. By the time I pull my camera up to my face, if my client doesn't 100% trust me and my intentions... it won't work. Also... catering??? I don't know ANY woman who shows up to a boudoir shoot ready to eat. Most haven't eaten for a couple of days previous and are looking forward to getting done so they CAN eat again. I DO however bring little light snacks... grapes, chocolate, peanuts... LITTLE things.

That's why I'm so obsessed with MattiasGraves... it LITERALLY IS my brand.


But NightL, I have to thank you. You've done an excellent job in exposing my internal fears. I am incredibly paranoid that despite my clear intentions and well-meaning I will come across as a "creeper." My in-laws already call me a pornographer. I truly worry that I'm going to put all this work into it and in the end, no matter what have NO one reach out to work with me. Despite the quality or consistency of my work.

But in truth, there ARE men in this industry. INCREDIBLE men. Men that mean well and men that are truly in it to create amazing art... with the innocent intention of reminding our clients how truly special and beautiful they are. Why does the equipment between my legs have to affect my professionalism or my prospects as an artist???

Gamine67 said:

You go through great lengths to describe how you’re not a creep but the photographer doth protest too much, methinks.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but it seems you’re basically interested in seeing naked MILF’s in a CMNF scenario.

But I got to thinking ‘Okay, so what if I was interested in getting some boudoir photography done?’.

A quick search in YELP and a couple of dozen show up; arbitrarily eliminate the ones who don’t have a brick & mortar studio, eliminate the photographers who aren’t women and eliminate those without a fair amount of reviews.

I still have four potential photographers; all women with established storefronts who make their living as photographers. They do weddings, portraits, car shows, parties and, you guessed it, Boudoir Photography.

It’s would cost between $500-$700, because they are professionals and will stage it appropriately.

But I’m sure I could find a guy, probably a few, just like you with a digital camera and narrow interest that would do it for free. Sorry but you’re clearly going to have to keep paying for ‘models’ to indulge your fetish.

The world needs more men with a fetish for keeping my linen closet organized than snapping Hootchie Mama photos. That would be a much easier sell.

Click to expand...

Sorry, CMNF? I don't know that one. Perhaps I protest too much because it's truly a cause I care about and I want to communicate with you where my mind is and what's within my heart. It's hard to translate that over a computer screen, I suppose.

What does your MILF statement really say about our society? Do I HAVE to have an obsession with "naked MILF'S" in order to be a boudoir photographer? I don't think so at all. And the view that in order to celebrate someone's sexuality I have to be personally involved is such a sad imposed thought. We are taught to tuck away anything that might be sexual. Yet turn on the TV at primetime and no one bats an eye and watching someone get shot or stabbed. How many "MILFs" feel unattractive because they compare themselves to the twenty-somethings that their husbands oogle on the television??

I can tell you that the best boudoir photographers DON'T have a brick and mortar studio. I ask my clients to book airbnbs or hotel rooms, that way they aren't coming to a random studio to get naked (that sounds a bit more sketchy to me). I've got nothing against having a studio... it IS a long-term dream of mine. But I love the variety I get from shooting in different locations, it keeps my photographer skills sharper.

For me, I purposefully keep my boudoir separate from everything else. I'm not a Walmart of photographers. I specialize in intimate women's portraits. I believe in doing so, I can better commit my talents to making a better end result for my client. If you ask a landscape painter to paint your portrait... they MIGHT do an ok job but the nuances will be sorely lacking. In photography, there are lenses and lights that are specially catered to weddings (100-300mm f2.8 L lens), car shows (less than 20mm), events (24-70mm f.28 L lens), general portraits (85mm f2 L lens)… BOUDOIR (35 OR 50mm f 1.4 L lens). That's not even getting into lighting and software requirements. By going with a general photographer you're not likely to get the best result... it might be OK but not as good as you could get.


$500-$700 in boudoir is CHEAP. Nothing against them, but it's not economical. Unless there's a TON of add-ons after the shoot. Most portrait photographers have a session fee ($150-300) that covers their time and the Hair and Makeup artist. After the session, they do a sales meeting where you pick out your images. Some do packages (typically starting at about $600) and some do ala cart (typically starting at about $200 for ONE image). The average shoot cost (in the US) is $1,200. At a $500 price point I'd have to wonder why so cheap? Inexperience? Or crappy delivery?


How does the act of coming in for a boudoir session automatically categorize my photography as "hoochie momma?" Isn't that a bit derogatory to my clients? Every woman has a different reason for scheduling a session. And you're absolutely right, there are guys out there that would do it for free just to snap a shot of your knickers. That's not me. I have to feed my family and my goal isn't to see you in your undies but to create that final result that will captures your essence and reflects the transformative process you've just gone through so you can look back in ten years and be reminded of how amazing you truly are. As Jen Rozenbaum says, "we're like therapists who happen to hold cameras."

'My perspective client is the type who goes as plain as she can because she doesn't want to draw attention or spend money on herself because as she considers an expensive haircut or a manicure she thinks of the kids baseball cleats or her husbands torn slacks and the kids dentist appointment that's sure to end with a few cavities. She says she likes cheap wine but just because she wants to fit in with her friends who DO like wine but can afford the nice stuff. '

I think right here is the reason your having trouble finding your ideal client. Your literally targeting women who will not spend money on themselves.

As someone who does fit your description to a T of someone you would try to get as a client, I can guarantee you there would be no way in this universe I could justify spending 1K-3K on something just for myself. (Not that your services aren't worth that!). I'm just suggesting you may not want to go for the women who most likely aren't going to pay for them. I would suggest aiming for more upperclass housewives etc. Who actually have the disposable income.

Wot JR said.

JaneRamsey said:

'My perspective client is the type who goes as plain as she can because she doesn't want to draw attention or spend money on herself because as she considers an expensive haircut or a manicure she thinks of the kids baseball cleats or her husbands torn slacks and the kids dentist appointment that's sure to end with a few cavities. She says she likes cheap wine but just because she wants to fit in with her friends who DO like wine but can afford the nice stuff. '

I think right here is the reason your having trouble finding your ideal client. Your literally targeting women who will not spend money on themselves.

As someone who does fit your description to a T of someone you would try to get as a client, I can guarantee you there would be no way in this universe I could justify spending 1K-3K on something just for myself. (Not that your services aren't worth that!). I'm just suggesting you may not want to go for the women who most likely aren't going to pay for them. I would suggest aiming for more upperclass housewives etc. Who actually have the disposable income.

Click to expand...

TarnishedPenny said:

Wot JR said.

Click to expand...

Thank you ladies, so much! I really do respect what you're saying. I will definitely have to look at adjusting my profile to be more in line with that. That disposable income part... something I've never been a part of personally. That'll be tough.

Thank you!

I really want to thank you all for the great reflections! I had some time to truly think about things last night and I really REALLY appreciate the constructive criticism and wisdom you've given me.

I think Jane was SO right! And when I first read her thoughts on how my "ideal client" would feel about spending money, I was reminded of my own wife who won't even spring for a $3 bottle of her favorite cranberry non-alcoholic wine. (I still bought her a case... and she loves every drop). But it also brought up another thought. Have I been going after the wrong demographic to care about art?

As a university trained musician I have an appreciation of music and the musicians that create it. I often have a hard time paying a dollar for a track because I know how MUCH work went into it. I appreciate the subtle nuances of the lead guitarist playing on a $3,000 Les Paul rather than a $600 ESP and playing out of a $5,000 Marshall Half Stack with a $300 Shure microphone rather than using their computer... and it's all of that money and training that makes me appreciate their creative process.

Maybe I need to factor an art appreciation into my profile. Someone who will not only see the $1,000 as a fair price but also will appreciate what's on the print for what it is... a culmination of my artistic journey that I drew upon to craft that ONE moment in time. Sure, there's the tools I used to capture the flawless curve of her spine or the glimmer of romance in her eye. But it's the SOUL that holds the camera and knows what to do with it.

Someone who sees me as a photographer as more than a monkey who pushes a button but someone who has trained on how to coax her body into certain positions so that my message is translated on film.


Hmm... I think I've got a lot of work to do!! Thank you all so much!!

My ideal boudoir photographer would be female.

And though I'm a hawt-as-fuck MILF, I wouldn't drop more on boudoir photos than I did on my children's senior pics.

But perhaps I'm not the demographic you seek.

Eilan said:

My ideal boudoir photographer would be female.

And though I'm a hawt-as-fuck MILF, I wouldn't drop more on boudoir photos than I did on my children's senior pics.

But perhaps I'm not the demographic you seek.

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And I appreciate your insight, but you're right. I DO, however, hope you find a boudoir photographer in your area and ROCK it!

MattiasGraves said:

I am a boudoir photographer . . .

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You do know a boudoir is not a bedroom? And that hardly anyone has a boudoir any more?

Kirkrapine said:

You do know a boudoir is not a bedroom? And that hardly anyone has a boudoir any more?

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Lol yes I'm well aware. The boudoir niche is more about creating a safe space where women can feel comfortable in their own skin. Empowered to be 100% authentically themselves without feeling the need to be whatever society tells them they should be.

MattiasGraves said:

Sorry, CMNF? I don't know that one. Perhaps I protest too much because it's truly a cause I care about and I want to communicate with you where my mind is and what's within my heart. It's hard to translate that over a computer screen, I suppose.

What does your MILF statement really say about our society? Do I HAVE to have an obsession with "naked MILF'S" in order to be a boudoir photographer? I don't think so at all. And the view that in order to celebrate someone's sexuality I have to be personally involved is such a sad imposed thought. We are taught to tuck away anything that might be sexual. Yet turn on the TV at primetime and no one bats an eye and watching someone get shot or stabbed. How many "MILFs" feel unattractive because they compare themselves to the twenty-somethings that their husbands oogle on the television??

I can tell you that the best boudoir photographers DON'T have a brick and mortar studio. I ask my clients to book airbnbs or hotel rooms, that way they aren't coming to a random studio to get naked (that sounds a bit more sketchy to me). I've got nothing against having a studio... it IS a long-term dream of mine. But I love the variety I get from shooting in different locations, it keeps my photographer skills sharper.

For me, I purposefully keep my boudoir separate from everything else. I'm not a Walmart of photographers. I specialize in intimate women's portraits. I believe in doing so, I can better commit my talents to making a better end result for my client. If you ask a landscape painter to paint your portrait... they MIGHT do an ok job but the nuances will be sorely lacking. In photography, there are lenses and lights that are specially catered to weddings (100-300mm f2.8 L lens), car shows (less than 20mm), events (24-70mm f.28 L lens), general portraits (85mm f2 L lens)… BOUDOIR (35 OR 50mm f 1.4 L lens). That's not even getting into lighting and software requirements. By going with a general photographer you're not likely to get the best result... it might be OK but not as good as you could get.


$500-$700 in boudoir is CHEAP. Nothing against them, but it's not economical. Unless there's a TON of add-ons after the shoot. Most portrait photographers have a session fee ($150-300) that covers their time and the Hair and Makeup artist. After the session, they do a sales meeting where you pick out your images. Some do packages (typically starting at about $600) and some do ala cart (typically starting at about $200 for ONE image). The average shoot cost (in the US) is $1,200. At a $500 price point I'd have to wonder why so cheap? Inexperience? Or crappy delivery?


How does the act of coming in for a boudoir session automatically categorize my photography as "hoochie momma?" Isn't that a bit derogatory to my clients? Every woman has a different reason for scheduling a session. And you're absolutely right, there are guys out there that would do it for free just to snap a shot of your knickers. That's not me. I have to feed my family and my goal isn't to see you in your undies but to create that final result that will captures your essence and reflects the transformative process you've just gone through so you can look back in ten years and be reminded of how amazing you truly are. As Jen Rozenbaum says, "we're like therapists who happen to hold cameras."

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Wait! We are taught to tuck in anything sexual? Are we really? I don't think I was. Then again, my background is in dance. In dance, we are taught to embrace all things, including sexuality. Clearly I am not your target client.

JaneRamsey said:

'My perspective client is the type who goes as plain as she can because she doesn't want to draw attention or spend money on herself because as she considers an expensive haircut or a manicure she thinks of the kids baseball cleats or her husbands torn slacks and the kids dentist appointment that's sure to end with a few cavities. She says she likes cheap wine but just because she wants to fit in with her friends who DO like wine but can afford the nice stuff. '

I think right here is the reason your having trouble finding your ideal client. Your literally targeting women who will not spend money on themselves.

As someone who does fit your description to a T of someone you would try to get as a client, I can guarantee you there would be no way in this universe I could justify spending 1K-3K on something just for myself. (Not that your services aren't worth that!). I'm just suggesting you may not want to go for the women who most likely aren't going to pay for them. I would suggest aiming for more upperclass housewives etc. Who actually have the disposable income.

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Yep. That last professional photos I had done were of me and my cat. These certainly were not done for me. I had gotten married and moved far away. I sent them as Christmas presents to my friends and family. I had one framed for my then husband. I still have it. He didn't want it. No way would I have spent that amount of money on photos.

The photographers that I personally know all offer the option of a CD. You may then take it somewhere else and get whatever you want done. Different sizes, as many as you want, put on puzzles, posters, mugs, etc.

I'm not stuck on myself. I know how to dress in lingerie if I want to. I often do. No need for a pic of that.

MattiasGraves said:

Lol yes I'm well aware. The boudoir niche is more about creating a safe space where women can feel comfortable in their own skin. Empowered to be 100% authentically themselves without feeling the need to be whatever society tells them they should be.

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I find those words to be sad. How many women really are not comfortable in their own skin? How many women don't feel empowered? I have no clue.

I am who I am and I am damned proud of it.