How to make amends?

I would ask one thing as it's something I've often wondered from my experience(bad times)...

Why did you feel guilt so late on?

That is...were there times when you felt guilt but ignored it or knew it was bad and justified your behaviour in some way. I was eventually told I 'deserved' to have many of the things you've described done to me and guilt didn't come into it. I'll probably never recover from what happened", especially since I can't understand why if the person who did it to me felt guilt but didn't stop.
 
In a way you are still being selfish wanting to make ammends to help YOU feel better. If you want to make them feel better stay away from them and leave them alone. That is what will make them feel better, not ever seeing or hearing from you ever again.
 
I have often wondered this too. I didn't feel any guilt at all about what I did. I had a few conversations with the man I fucked around with, saying "We shouldn't have done that." But I didn't feel guilt until I got caught.

Sadly enough, I think that speaks to the weakness of my moral character.

Out of curiosity, if you didn't get caught, would you still be doing it?

In my case, I was a liar and a cheat from an early age. Really good at lying and stealing, took pride in it. But eventually I figured out I was doing myself and others harm. Nobody ever caught me.

There's a difference between people disciplining you and you disciplining yourself. Are you capable of figuring out how you should have disciplined yourself before it got that far, or do you rely now on someone else making you feel bad to stay on the straight and narrow?
 
I have often wondered this too. I didn't feel any guilt at all about what I did. I had a few conversations with the man I fucked around with, saying "We shouldn't have done that." But I didn't feel guilt until I got caught.

Sadly enough, I think that speaks to the weakness of my moral character.

I would say it's not guilt...but regret for yourself and your actions.
The guilt would have stopped you. Or you just felt bad for it but your other emotions overruled it.
 
I wouldn't still be doing it with that particular man, but I might be doing it with others, yes. Getting caught was my wake-up call.

Unfortunately, disciplining myself was forced on me when I got caught. Otherwise, I would have probably gone through life being as unscrupulous as always. I think learning that there are consequences for my actions is what made me grow up and see the light.

Okay, that's good, whatever started it. I wish you luck in navigation, and if there's any help to be had here it's that there might not be a good answer or complete closure.
 
If I read this correctly, you are suggesting that I don't feel guilt at all right now, but only regret for my actions, and only because it is now causing ME pain.

That's definitely something to think about...

Whatever brought you to this place of guilt is a good thing. I think you're probably only sorry because you got caught. Otherwise, you'd be fucking away still. BUT, I think you may genuinely feel sorry for it. Use this as a chance to change the way you view sex and the people you care about.

Answer this... If you could, right now, go back to screwing around without consequences, would you? A yes would imply that you're not really sorry. A no would imply you've maybe grown up.
 
When I had the opportunity to stop, I didn't. I gave it a nanosecond of thought and then I continued doing what I was doing, knowing full well that it would hurt other people if they ever found out. I didn't feel bad enough to stop.

So in answer to that question...I didn't change until there were consequences for my actions. It would be nice to say I wouldn't fuck around, but I can't say that for sure. I am selfish enough that if there were no consequences, I very well might continue fucking around.

Maybe I'm just trying to save myself now, and I hope that making amends will keep me from being outed to my boss, my friends, my family -- everyone.

I'll give you this... You're honest about the situation. Everyone recommends therapy for a everything on this board. But you are one who I genuinely think would benefit from it. You need to get to the root of why you're almost accepting of the behaviour.

Would you be able to, now that you know there are consequences, change the way you see things? We all make mistakes. It sounds like you made some bad ones. But you can choose to continue living in the same selfish world, or try to change. You're here and asking the right questions. You're not bullshitting us either. I don't even see that you've made a single excuse. But the problem lies in the fact that you are not entirely sorry for unselfish reasons.

Seek counseling. Find out the root of that selfishness. The cheating is not the problem; it is a symptom of the problem.
 
I'll give you this... You're honest about the situation. Everyone recommends therapy for a everything on this board. But you are one who I genuinely think would benefit from it. You need to get to the root of why you're almost accepting of the behaviour.

Would you be able to, now that you know there are consequences, change the way you see things? We all make mistakes. It sounds like you made some bad ones. But you can choose to continue living in the same selfish world, or try to change. You're here and asking the right questions. You're not bullshitting us either. I don't even see that you've made a single excuse. But the problem lies in the fact that you are not entirely sorry for unselfish reasons.

Seek counseling. Find out the root of that selfishness. The cheating is not the problem; it is a symptom of the problem.
A little off-topic, but I think we tend to recommend therapy to many because the reality is most of us are not qualified mental health professionals in any way and it's extremely difficult to get a read on the entire situation in this medium. That's especially true when it comes to couples who are having problems; we almost always only hear one side of the story, and it's smarter to refer the poster to a qualified professional than to suggest they bring their spouse to this forum to hash it out with a bunch of strangers who may or may not give good advice, spot underlying issues, etc. The same goes for medical issues: while we can point people in the right direction in many cases, the standard is to refer them to their health care provider or a specialist just in case it is something more serious.

Secondly, I agree the OP's behavior is a symptom of a far greater problem than she should work through with the help of a good therapist. :)

I agree that I should definitely do this.

Change "should" to "WILL" (i.e. make a commitment), and you'll be set.

Have you looked into the possibility that there may be an addiction component or underlying cause of your behavior? I've been looking into sex addictions recently, and it sounds like some of the things you're describing might fit. In the midst of the addiction, addicts are very selfish people who choose their drug of choice over everything else. There's usually some underlying mental health issue that needs to be addressed to recover. You may want to check out Sexaholics Anonymous for support in addition to seeking therapy.
 
I never said I wasn't self-centered. I have always been driven by selfish need, as was the case when I cheated on my partner with someone who already had a partner. I hurt several people simply because I wanted to act the slut.

Part of "making amends" is not only atoning for those actions, but somehow becoming a better person in the process.
QUOTE]

Becoming the better person may indeed require some sort of therapy, either alone or together with your partner that you hurt, assuming they are willing to do this with you. Trust me, it's not easy and I only know because I suffered that humiliation and had to admit to myself the pain that I caused by my own selfishness. That's a key part of learning to be a "better person", i.e. admitting that selfishness to your core and not just saying it. Maybe you need to understand why you were selfish and why you felt entitled. Frankly, I had a hard time with it because we all tend to think we "deserve" certain things.

However, you're also going to have to face the fact that you may never be forgiven, at least not by everyone involved, and that you'll have to live with that. You aren't "entitled" to anyone's forgiveness. If you can earn it, you're the luckier for it. Unfortunately, you may have to accept that the more you try to seek forgiveness, the worse it gets and you may just have to move on and put things behind you. At some point, those whom you wronged may allow things to slip into the background of their own lives and you may have to move on the same way.

I was fortunate in my situation but that's not always the case. I know some people who have gone through horrible divorces as a result of hurtful actions and they still can't stand to be in the same room together 20 years later even when their kids are getting married, or graduating college, etc. My brother in law had to move across the country as a result of his actions and he's never been allowed to attend his kids' weddings and never been given the chance to see his grandchildren. I suppose he's had to learn to live with that. What ever happens for you, it will take time.
 
I would have reasons for disliking you based on previous experience.

My ex cheated, she wanted to leave me though the ex-boyfriend she had been fucking around with wasn't interested.
She only told me what was going on after witnessing several panic attacks regarding her 'odd behaviour'.
This didn't stop her from continuing and 2 weeks later sent me a text by accident saying she wanted to leave me, it was intended for him.
Several months later (I foolishly accepted her guilt ridden apologies) I discovered she had been cheating with another ex the whole time we had been together. Now you might call me foolish for sticking around but we have a daughter. I couldn't just walk out.

The whole way through, over about 6 months, each time some new thing came to light she told me how guilty she felt afterwards. This never stopped her from doing it again and again. She even joked with her ex by text about how fun it would be to see him smash my face in with a maglite.

You Will never....ever...understand what you have done until it happens to you.
Even now she feels no real remorse.

Sorry if that's harsh but I have my rules and the first is honesty no matter the cost.
 
I've never been on either side of this exact equation, but I find the OP's honesty interesting. Not everyone empathizes with others to the same degree, and of course, there are clinical names for varying degrees of a lack of empathy.

In any event, OP, you've done some damage. Apologizing might help those you've hurt, and it will almost certainly help you. Yes, that's somewhat selfish. Everyone is somewhat selfish, although we don't like to admit that. If you decide to contact them, be discrete about it. Don't put those others in a situation that's any more awkward than necessary. For example, a phone call might be better than showing up at their doorstep, a letter might be better than a phone call, an email might be best of all, although that might also look cowardly. Give them the opportunity to say "Fuck off" with as little drama as possible.

In the end, you need to close this chapter of your life. You fucked up. You may not be able to redeem yourself in your victim's eyes. But you have to redeem yourself in your own eyes. No matter what the victims might wish, there is no death penalty for cheating. Go on living. Don't repeat those mistakes. Consider moving. Start over. You do have to forgive yourself, and make the changes that allow you to live a positive life going forward. To quote Carl Sandberg, "The past is a bucket of ashes."
 
If it was me, I would be looking to offer honest and open conversations. Frank admission of the facts and the reasoning you felt the situation had to happen. Not shifting blame but accepting your error and complete honesty.

Acceptance that wounds will take time to heal and don't expect to much.

Good luck, I hope you get to the place you need to be!
 
I obviously agree with others working with a therapist or counselor is important, among other things, you need to get to the root of why you continually cheated and had trouble feeling guilt over it. How we can do that is pretty easy, human beings have the ability to rationalize almost anything, I remember sitting in my therapists office talking about my father reacting with rage to idiotic things (like, for example, a kid made toast and left crumbs on the counter, not something to yell and scream about), and explaining that away, saying he was stressed, etc and her figuratively hitting me over the head and saying listen to what you saying, if someone else told you that would you be so blase about it....

The other thing we do as human beings is compartmentalize things, in a sense we can have an area of ourselves that is a 'compartment' where it is very easy to cheat, in a sense it is like a separate part of ourselves, where we aren't viewing things for example as if we are married with spouses but in effect are a free agent, I have seen this both with trans people and gay people struggling to come to who they are, it can allow an otherwise good person to do stupid things because in a sense they are in another place....it isn't schizophrenia or a psychotic break, rather it is in effect putting ourselves into a different mode (and it is subconscious, not conscious, that someone can do this)...and in that compartment what we are doing is okay, because the moral stuff, the bounds, aren't created there. Before people on here pooh pooh this as an excuse for bad behavior or me saying 'it is okay, you didn't know what you were doing', I am not, I am simply explaining what could cause this (the symptom of feeling guilty only after getting caught is a strong indicator to me, in a sense when you get caught you 'shift' back into your normal person and the moral and ethical bounds are there and say "what the fuck did I just do". I am not a therapist, what I am writing about is based on going through many years of therapy and my own 'compartmentalization' issues, it is common with identity issues to have in effect created a new personna or whatever you call it.....

It could be that the OP has done this, it would explain a lot, and also is a strong reason I think she needs to get help....what therapy does is allow someone to integrate, to get rid of those 'compartments' and integrate as one person (again, this is nothing to do with schizophrenia, a schizophrenic with a psychotic break wouldn't remember doing the 'bad things', among other things, least as far as I know). Obviously, I am not trying to diagnose anything, simply offering perspective, perhaps the OP is acting out something from her past or something, I have no way of knowing. What I do think is that if my guess is correct, it is likely the OP at some point down the road might repeat this behavior, cheaters are often serial because all the gnashing of teeth and guilt may not override the root cause of why they cheat *shrug*. I agree, it isn't a matter of the OP should get help, but rather if she seriously wants to a)make amends and b)not repeat it getting help is a requirement, because without it I suspect she will never get to the root of why she cheated like that and also may never get to work out the pain of what she caused enough to forgive herself....and a person who feels badly about themselves is more likely to repeat bad behavior IME then someone who realizes they are worthy of love and so forth:).

Erika is right, the reason people often suggest therapy is because therapists and counselors are trained in these things, and while I don't disagree the lengths some of this self help/ therapy is golden idea has gone is ridiculous (lot of therapists will tell you that), there also is benefit because therapists are trained in handling these issues and they often are complex. I know there is a very strong strain out there of the old 'if someone does wrong, they are guilty of a sin" kind of thing and blame therapy for there being no shame or morality, or people who see someone suffering from abuse and give wonderful bromides like "geez, that was 30 years ago, why are you letting it bother you", but the reality is a lot of things in the past that were not so stellar might have been made better had therapy been available, back in the 'good ole days'......
 
Thank you all for the insightful responses.

I agree that counseling is a very good idea. You all make very valid points about what counseling can help me uncover about myself and how it might give me the tools I need to change.



You're right in that I will never truly understand what I have done. Though I am hurting now, I must remember that what I am feeling is NOTHING like what I put others through. If I can remember that, it will keep anything I am dealing with now in the proper perspective.

Thank you again for your responses.

You're welcome.
I should also say it's good to hear you see it the way you do...
It suggests you're not as bad as you may believe.
X
 
Absolutely.

If the woman who my ex-husband cheated with tried to come to me to "make amends," I'd tell her to go fuck herself.
ESPECIALLY knowing that the only reason she has any remorse at all is that she got caught by her own mate, so now she's "sorry," as seems to be the situation here, from reading these and other posts from this user. Even in making amends she's self centered.

I actually am here because of cheating. My husband met a woman here at LIT and it progressed to where they thought they were in love. Never having met, they professed their love. I found out and she said she would stay away but a couple of months later she started again and he was so enamoured he fell back into it - again trying to have both our marriage -with LOTS of great sex with me and her in his ear everyday.
Long story short, I called her to tell her to back off and she said she was sorry and would. Maybe I am living in a fools paradise but I am hoping he is still being faithful. I love him, so call me a fool.
Sometimes I think it would have been easier if it was only sexual but he said she was the love of his life and after 20 years of marriage that is the worst pain of all. Unrequited love is something that is nearly impossible to pull out of your head.
 
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I obviously agree with others working with a therapist or counselor is important, among other things, you need to get to the root of why you continually cheated and had trouble feeling guilt over it. How we can do that is pretty easy, human beings have the ability to rationalize almost anything, I remember sitting in my therapists office talking about my father reacting with rage to idiotic things (like, for example, a kid made toast and left crumbs on the counter, not something to yell and scream about), and explaining that away, saying he was stressed, etc and her figuratively hitting me over the head and saying listen to what you saying, if someone else told you that would you be so blase about it....

The other thing we do as human beings is compartmentalize things, in a sense we can have an area of ourselves that is a 'compartment' where it is very easy to cheat, in a sense it is like a separate part of ourselves, where we aren't viewing things for example as if we are married with spouses but in effect are a free agent, I have seen this both with trans people and gay people struggling to come to who they are, it can allow an otherwise good person to do stupid things because in a sense they are in another place....it isn't schizophrenia or a psychotic break, rather it is in effect putting ourselves into a different mode (and it is subconscious, not conscious, that someone can do this)...and in that compartment what we are doing is okay, because the moral stuff, the bounds, aren't created there. Before people on here pooh pooh this as an excuse for bad behavior or me saying 'it is okay, you didn't know what you were doing', I am not, I am simply explaining what could cause this (the symptom of feeling guilty only after getting caught is a strong indicator to me, in a sense when you get caught you 'shift' back into your normal person and the moral and ethical bounds are there and say "what the fuck did I just do". I am not a therapist, what I am writing about is based on going through many years of therapy and my own 'compartmentalization' issues, it is common with identity issues to have in effect created a new personna or whatever you call it.....

It could be that the OP has done this, it would explain a lot, and also is a strong reason I think she needs to get help....what therapy does is allow someone to integrate, to get rid of those 'compartments' and integrate as one person (again, this is nothing to do with schizophrenia, a schizophrenic with a psychotic break wouldn't remember doing the 'bad things', among other things, least as far as I know). Obviously, I am not trying to diagnose anything, simply offering perspective, perhaps the OP is acting out something from her past or something, I have no way of knowing. What I do think is that if my guess is correct, it is likely the OP at some point down the road might repeat this behavior, cheaters are often serial because all the gnashing of teeth and guilt may not override the root cause of why they cheat *shrug*. I agree, it isn't a matter of the OP should get help, but rather if she seriously wants to a)make amends and b)not repeat it getting help is a requirement, because without it I suspect she will never get to the root of why she cheated like that and also may never get to work out the pain of what she caused enough to forgive herself....and a person who feels badly about themselves is more likely to repeat bad behavior IME then someone who realizes they are worthy of love and so forth:).

Erika is right, the reason people often suggest therapy is because therapists and counselors are trained in these things, and while I don't disagree the lengths some of this self help/ therapy is golden idea has gone is ridiculous (lot of therapists will tell you that), there also is benefit because therapists are trained in handling these issues and they often are complex. I know there is a very strong strain out there of the old 'if someone does wrong, they are guilty of a sin" kind of thing and blame therapy for there being no shame or morality, or people who see someone suffering from abuse and give wonderful bromides like "geez, that was 30 years ago, why are you letting it bother you", but the reality is a lot of things in the past that were not so stellar might have been made better had therapy been available, back in the 'good ole days'......

Just a quick note about therapy - Hubbie and I went to a marriage councilor and she could not even tell that he was cheating and had had multiple affairs she thought I was not telling the whole truth when it was he. After a few months we quit but after I found out about his cheating (this is not the first time) he told me that the whole time in her office he was feeling so smug as she blamed me for holding back and not sharing my true feelings. BTW, she came highly recommended - LOL so be careful.
 
Just a quick note about therapy - Hubbie and I went to a marriage councilor and she could not even tell that he was cheating and had had multiple affairs she thought I was not telling the whole truth when it was he. After a few months we quit but after I found out about his cheating (this is not the first time) he told me that the whole time in her office he was feeling so smug as she blamed me for holding back and not sharing my true feelings. BTW, she came highly recommended - LOL so be careful.

Same thing happened to my husband. He went to couples counseling with his previous wife only to find out it was an ambush. He was asked to justify how he made her feel and they didn't seem to care how he felt or what was going on with him.

It appeared he needed an opposing counselor in the same way you need an opposing counsel in a law trial. Instead he decided to not continue with the marriage or the counseling. For which I'm grateful!
 
I have a question for you. This has been on my mind today.

After what your ex did to you, is there anything at all she could do to make up for what she did? Is there anything she could go through that would prove to you she feels true remorse, or at least make you feel as though karma had finally come around?

IME
She eventually started telling me I deserved it, I spent nearly 6 months of jerk father threatening me because she didn't want anybody to know the truth. I told them what happened and they still don't know everything( though they do know I haven't told them everything).
She's now with a man older than her own father, none of her family approve and she's made it quite clear that this is the best thing in her whole life and she'll "never make that mistake again" as though I was a practise for the real deal...in fact her new man even works with one of the ex boyfriends. He's fine with them being mates and when I threatened to tell the girlfriends of the guys she cheated with she warned both of them first.

In short, I do not believe SHE will ever show true remorse as she has quite happily come to terms all by herself with the things she did. She's never meant it when she apologised and she never will.
She is a low creature, a naive and arrogant shitty excuse for an oxygen thieving cunt.
I Will never forgive her no matter how badly her life Will become and I hope she suffers and has to crawl in her knees and beg for help all her days.

I truly loved her and she used that against me.

This may not be helpful or what you'd like to hear but it's my experience. I also have to see her once a week to collect my daughter when I have her for the day so there is a strained situation between us.

Karma would require all these things happening to her as they did me but I honestly don't think she feels as normal people do, it won't happen for me and so I remain bitter and unable to love or trust.

Try, try and maybe something can make things a little better. Write a letter maybe, taking the time to write down things might show actual interest in what you hope to say if not understanding on their part.
I do hope that things get better for everyone involved but if you can learn from this and change then you are a better person. I shall think of you and my wishes go with you x
 
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