The psychopathic sub

dora_salonica said:

I looked up Jon Jacobs and I came across a reference by Tanos, here: http://www.ownership-possession.com/blog/289600/

Apparently the man died in 2004. I wish I could find something more about him. Do you happen to know where I can find some writings?

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Check out "Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance."

I was struck early in this conversation by the term "cognitive illusion." I know that I have fallen victim to them.

Here are a few "cognitive illusions," identified by Nobel Laureate Daniel Kahneman:

1. "the focusing illusion" - when we focus on a single factor, we inevitably overestimate its importance

2. "the endowment effect" - in which we exaggerate the value of objects we possess

3. "the illusion of validity" - the tendency of experts to trust their own judgement


For further explanation of how we get it wrong

http://www.inc.com/daniel-kahneman/idea-lab-daniel-kahneman-framing.html

All_4_Love said:

Stepping out of the sidelines of this thread to say that I wish you well in your decision to seek sobriety. Sending lots of good vibes out for you. Take care of yourself, dear lady. One day at a time...

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Thank you very much! Yes, one day at time. It is going very well so far (plus two positive things happened on the side).

Stag of Oberon said:

speaking of segues, these posts are pretty late to the punch; the thread has evolved quite a bit, & in mostly positive directions I'd say.

Thank you dora salonica for being open to feedback on your methods of communication around these parts. Here's to hoping it sticks.

I apologize for my earlier outburst.

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No problem at all. It takes me some time to realize certain things, but I almost always do in the end, when they are reasonable of course. I think it has to do with a tendency on my part for (unnecessary) self-defense...<smiles>

FurryFury said:

When I was actually raped I didn't even recognize it. I thought it must be love or I was bad.

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I found your story very moving. I am glad you have found the strength to distance yourself from abuse.

Something similar happened to me. I was in vanilla relationships where I allowed myself to be abused. Something in me found some satisfaction in all that, although I did not really want to have to wait for my bones to mend, or to have to rush to the hospital for stitches. But I did not know anything about BDSM those days. And I was actually wondering if other people who are into BDSM have had experiences of this sort, before they discovered BDSM. Just a thought...

IrisAlthea said:

Again you are assuming that what comes close to perfection for you is close to some absolute perfection that is valid for everyone.

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Actually, the thought never crossed my mind. I am pretty sure that my musical preferences are not at all common...

IrisAlthea said:

As for the submissive's or dominant's role and responsibilities, I think that is totally up to the participants in the specific relationship.

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I agree that each relationship is unique and that each individual is entitled to make his or her own choices.

In a similar way, each individual is entitled to his or her opinion and has the right to discuss personal opinion in a public discussion such as this one.

Personal views are not an aphorism of other people's personal choices. And through discussion and dialogue, positive things may crop up. They usually do. I learned a zillion things from this particular thread.

Netzach said:

Some slaves regulate and maintain themselves well as functioning adults and their value and prospects are enhanced simply by being in an opportunity to serve. Those are the slaves I want, personally. I am not a slave, and do not derive my satisfaction in serving others or worrying about their prospects and their value - I need to take care of my own value and prospects as an artist, a person, and a full functioning entity. I expect that of a slave.

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Well, the old saying says, "if it works, don't fix it..."<smiles>

Netzach said:

Am I just a romantic old fool who believes in grown ass adult independence and some of us are fulfilled by serving AS such?

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Not at all. I believe in the same thing - though I recognize that the need to get there first is very real among some people. And they need help from the dominant person to get there.

What you are saying reminded me of an old article I read once, on the three types of dominant: the controlling dominant, the nurturing dominant and the domineering dominant. Obviously, what I am talking about is mostly the nurturing dominant, whereas you are talking about the domineering dominant. However, I think that the three types overlap at some point and all dominant persons have characteristics of all three types - you have already mentioned being supportive of the sub, up to the point where you do not become the person who provides a service. So in that case, you would in fact be nurturing too...

eastern sun said:

Check out "Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance."

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Thank you very much!

dora_salonica said:

I found your story very moving. I am glad you have found the strength to distance yourself from abuse.

Something similar happened to me. I was in vanilla relationships where I allowed myself to be abused. Something in me found some satisfaction in all that, although I did not really want to have to wait for my bones to mend, or to have to rush to the hospital for stitches. But I did not know anything about BDSM those days. And I was actually wondering if other people who are into BDSM have had experiences of this sort, before they discovered BDSM. Just a thought...

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I will spare everyone the details.

To answer this question...

Yes, I have found myself in abusive relationships. After a lot of self reflection, I see that the abuse was not the part that was fulfilling my needs. It was the control that he had over me.

I found the courage and strength to leave one abusive relationship, only to find myself in another that was even more abusive than the first. There is a saying that life keeps handing you the same lessons over and over until you learn. Well, I finally learned. I found the courage and dignity to leave the second abusive relationship as well.

I did not know anything about BDSM in those days either. Now, I do.

I understand me.

And I will never, ever allow anyone to treat me that way again.

I suspect this happens less these days with the internet to tell you more about anything you might be into. Not only that, it tells you that you are not alone. But I was in my 40's before I figured out that there was a name for what I craved and that I was not alone.

Sorry to hear you were abused. Glad you got free of it. *HUGS*

dora_salonica said:

I found your story very moving. I am glad you have found the strength to distance yourself from abuse.

Something similar happened to me. I was in vanilla relationships where I allowed myself to be abused. Something in me found some satisfaction in all that, although I did not really want to have to wait for my bones to mend, or to have to rush to the hospital for stitches. But I did not know anything about BDSM those days. And I was actually wondering if other people who are into BDSM have had experiences of this sort, before they discovered BDSM. Just a thought...

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dora_salonica said:

I agree that each relationship is unique and that each individual is entitled to make his or her own choices.

In a similar way, each individual is entitled to his or her opinion and has the right to discuss personal opinion in a public discussion such as this one.

Personal views are not an aphorism of other people's personal choices. And through discussion and dialogue, positive things may crop up. They usually do. I learned a zillion things from this particular thread.

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Yes, people are entitled to their opinion.
If the purpose is discussing and learning from each other though, it does help if you present them as opinions.

It may be all in the use of language, but just to take one example, there is a difference between asking "What is the purpose of a BDSM scene?" and "What is your purpose when doing a BDSM scene?".

IrisAlthea said:

Yes, people are entitled to their opinion.
If the purpose is discussing and learning from each other though, it does help if you present them as opinions.

It may be all in the use of language, but just to take one example, there is a difference between asking "What is the purpose of a BDSM scene?" and "What is your purpose when doing a BDSM scene?".

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Articles really do matter in english, even though we only employ two.

A definite article indicates that its noun is a particular one (or ones) identifiable to the listener. It may be something that the speaker has already mentioned, or it may be something uniquely specified. The definite article in English, for both singular and plural nouns, is the.

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An indefinite article indicates that its noun is not a particular one (or ones) identifiable to the listener. It may be something that the speaker is mentioning for the first time, or its precise identity may be irrelevant or hypothetical, or the speaker may be making a general statement about any such thing. English uses a/an, from the Old English forms of the number 'one', as its primary indefinite article.

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From the way 'a' or 'the' are used over the course of a discussion, it is pretty easily understood whether you are talking in universal or absolute terms, or specific and situational ones, OP.

IrisAlthea said:

Yes, people are entitled to their opinion.
If the purpose is discussing and learning from each other though, it does help if you present them as opinions.

It may be all in the use of language, but just to take one example, there is a difference between asking "What is the purpose of a BDSM scene?" and "What is your purpose when doing a BDSM scene?".

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Thank you for the advice. I will keep it in mind.

KoPilot said:

Articles really do matter in english, even though we only employ two.





From the way 'a' or 'the' are used over the course of a discussion, it is pretty easily understood whether you are talking in universal or absolute terms, or specific and situational ones, OP.

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Very good point. Thank you too. A change in wording then is needed.

Well, better luck next time, with the next topic. <smiles>

All_4_Love said:

And I will never, ever allow anyone to treat me that way again.

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Me neither. And I am very glad we got out of abusive relationships... Some people never do.