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England, Scotland & Wales about to be hit with massive increase in electricity prices

trysail

trysail

Catch Me Who Can
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Posts
25,593
England, Scotland & Wales about to be hit with massive increase in electricity prices

Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years.

The consultants estimate that 18pc of the current electricity price relates to climate change policies – or £15 per megawatt-hour out of a £82 per megawatt-hour average...





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/8713691/Green-tax-hike-hits-businesses.html

Green tax hike hits businesses
Green taxes will make up more than a third of the price of electricity by the end of the decade, pushing up prices to new highs by 2020.

By Rowena Mason, Energy Correspondent
9:40AM BST
21 Aug 2011

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/8713691/Green-tax-hike-hits-businesses.html
Click to expand...
 
They should go back to the pre-industrial age.

Just like the Muslim world.

:cool:
 
trysail said:
Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years.

The consultants estimate that 18pc of the current electricity price relates to climate change policies – or £15 per megawatt-hour out of a £82 per megawatt-hour average...
Click to expand...

I presume this is intended in some way to be alarmist. Actually the cost of power to the consumer in the UK doubled in the preceding decade, 2000 to 2010, so '58 pc' in a decade would at least represent a slower rate of growth. Source: Insitute for Fiscal Studies

The Daily Mail, well-known for its green socialist critiques of capitalism, reported in the winter of 2009/2010 on the enormous increases in profits of energy companies during the 2000s: << While the profits of British Gas - which declares its profits on Thursday - and UK-based provider Scottish & Southern Energy are transparent, the same is not true of the other major firms.

Companies such as nPower and Eon hide rising profits within the accounts of their German parent companies. The same is true of EDF, which is French, and Scottish Power, which is Spanish-owned. Official customer body Consumer Focus and the Conservatives have called for an inquiry into the industry and the failure to pass on wholesale price reductions.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252461/British-Gas-profits-surge-50-cash-strapped-elderly-freeze.html#ixzz1VmFIUYvp>>

I like that phrase, '...and the Conservatives'. Of course they weren't in power then.

Patrick
 
trysail said:
Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years.

The consultants estimate that 18pc of the current electricity price relates to climate change policies – or £15 per megawatt-hour out of a £82 per megawatt-hour average...
Click to expand...

Convert that to american for me. I pay 11 cents/kwh
 
$0.11 per kwh = $110 per mwh?

$110 = 66.8693 pounds? And their average is 82 pounds?
 
JohnnySavage said:
Convert that to american for me. I pay 11 cents/kwh
Click to expand...



£82/MWh × USD 1.646/£ = $134.97/MWh

÷ 1,000 MWh/KWh = $0.13/KWh

But— DON'T FORGET— this is the wholesale price (i.e., the price paid by distribution company [ e.g., PEPCO ] or a large manufacturer ) prior to any markup to the retail user.



___________________________________________

Current U.S. WHOLESALE prices:
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/



ELECTRICITY ($/megawatt hour)
Mid-Columbia, firm on-peak, spot $35.94/MWh or $0.03/KWh

Palo Verde, firm on-peak, spot $43.45/MWh or $0.04/KWh

BLOOMBERG, FIRM ON-PEAK, DAY AHEAD SPOT/ERCOT HOUSTON $125.00/MWh or $0.13/KWh

 
Last edited:
trysail said:
Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years.

The consultants estimate that 18pc of the current electricity price relates to climate change policies – or £15 per megawatt-hour out of a £82 per megawatt-hour average...
Click to expand...

It's the fucking racist TEA party's fault.


.... no wait......

Oh.

Nevermind.


:rolleyes::):D;)
 
JohnnySavage said:
$0.11 per kwh = $110 per mwh?

$110 = 66.8693 pounds? And their average is 82 pounds?
Click to expand...

Seems like their money weighs an awful lot.

Why, I wouldn't even be able to carry fifty bucks in my pocket.

Strange that such a civilized society would have such heavy money.

* shrug *
 
trysail said:




£82/MWh × USD 1.646/£ = $134.97/MWh

÷ 1,000Mwh/KWh = $0.13/KWh

But— DON'T FORGET— this is the wholesale price (i.e., the price paid by distribution company [ e.g., PEPCO ] or a large manufacturer ) prior to any markup to the retail user.



___________________________________________

Current U.S. WHOLESALE prices:
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/



ELECTRICITY ($/megawatt hour)
Mid-Columbia, firm on-peak, spot $35.94/MWh or $0.03/KWh

Palo Verde, firm on-peak, spot $43.45/MWh or $0.04/KWh

BLOOMBERG, FIRM ON-PEAK, DAY AHEAD SPOT/ERCOT HOUSTON $125.00/MWh or $0.13/KWh
Click to expand...

I wonder what the Brits pay retail. I shop around a lot and while my current rate is 11 cents, sometimes I can get a six month contract for 9 cents.
 
busybody said:
I pay ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nana:

at the height of AC season, when I used to pay $400 or so, this year was about $60 or so!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You can as well
Click to expand...

I'm afraid to ask, but do you have a fusion reactor in your basement?
 
patrick1 said:
I presume this is intended in some way to be alarmist. Actually the cost of power to the consumer in the UK doubled in the preceding decade, 2000 to 2010, so '58 pc' in a decade would at least represent a slower rate of growth. Source: Insitute for Fiscal Studies

The Daily Mail, well-known for its green socialist critiques of capitalism, reported in the winter of 2009/2010 on the enormous increases in profits of energy companies during the 2000s: << While the profits of British Gas - which declares its profits on Thursday - and UK-based provider Scottish & Southern Energy are transparent, the same is not true of the other major firms.

Companies such as nPower and Eon hide rising profits within the accounts of their German parent companies. The same is true of EDF, which is French, and Scottish Power, which is Spanish-owned. Official customer body Consumer Focus and the Conservatives have called for an inquiry into the industry and the failure to pass on wholesale price reductions.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252461/British-Gas-profits-surge-50-cash-strapped-elderly-freeze.html#ixzz1VmFIUYvp>>

I like that phrase, '...and the Conservatives'. Of course they weren't in power then.

Patrick
Click to expand...


The largest component of the past decade's rise in your prices was, by far, the rise in the cost of fuel prices ( i.e., natural gas, petroleum and coal ) which began the decade at comparatively low levels.


fredgraph.png



In sharp contrast, the projected cost increase for the coming decade is entirely attributable to an artificial government-imposed mandate.


British Gas hasn't been in the distribution business for at least a decade. I believe that Centrica is currently the U.K.'s largest natural gas distributor. Please tell me that you don't seriously believe that EDF or EON are subsidizing their non-U.K. distribution businesses by inflating U.K. prices. I seriously doubt that volumes driven by an extremely price-sensitive competitive market would fail to reflect such.

 
buy an aga, you can burn the dead bodies of the welsh and scots.
 
trysail said:



The largest component of the past decade's rise in your prices was, by far, the rise in the cost of fuel prices ( i.e., natural gas, petroleum and coal ) which began the decade at comparatively low levels.


fredgraph.png



In sharp contrast, the projected cost increase for the coming decade is entirely attributable to an artificial government-imposed mandate.


British Gas hasn't been in the distribution business for at least a decade. I believe that Centrica is currently the U.K.'s largest natural gas distributor. Please tell me that you don't seriously believe that EDF or EON are subsidizing their non-U.K. distribution businesses by inflating U.K. prices. I seriously doubt that volumes driven by an extremely price-sensitive competitive market would fail to reflect such.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm expressing some scepticism about these reports and the way people are trying to use them. These are forecasts based on undisclosed assumptions, which you're comparing with known data about past events (although you don't source directly your claim that the rise in fuel prices was the main cause of cost increases, and the latest cost increases to consumers here in the UK have been blamed on 'price volatility' by producing/distributing companies).

The range of forecasting is so huge as to render any conclusions very uncertain, as you can see from the previous report in the Telegraph by the same reporter, citing a government report which the consultants seem to be responding to in this later item - then the range was '29 to 58 pc' on a worst-case scenario, with lesser increases on different assumptions.

You will also see that there is grave concern in the UK about profit-taking and possible profit-concealment among the energy providers and distributors. Some of this would necessitate looking at retail distribution instea of focusing on wholesale as these reports do.

Increased infrastructure costs are part of the forecast increase. I don't think such infrastructure costs are part of the 'artificial government-imposed mandate': it's widely accepted there's been insufficient investment here.

Just to be clear, I believe this mandate is supported by a very large proportion of the UK population: there is no evidence that other political parties would have imposed a lesser burden. Like it or not, our electorate believes in these measures.

P
 
The good news for the riots which lay ahead...

...at least generators are a little more difficult to lift than electronics and "trainers".
 
some day all the liberals will wake the fuckup, government doesn't belong in the any enterprise


trysail said:
Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years.

The consultants estimate that 18pc of the current electricity price relates to climate change policies – or £15 per megawatt-hour out of a £82 per megawatt-hour average...
Click to expand...
 


Aug 22, 2011 at 3:45 PM
by Martin A
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/b...ard-to-find-words.html?currentPage=2#comments

...a few years ago, I said to myself "I really ought to get a proper understanding of the physics of this climate change stuff". I have an engineering background that equips me perfectly well for understanding complicated physics and mathematical modelling.

As soon as I learned that it is based on predictions from computer models that are inherently incapable of being validated, and with fiddle factors to adjust for parts of the model where the physics is incompletely understood, I smelt a big fat rat.

I have spent enough of my life building and using computer models of physical systems to know only too well that an un-validated model is worthless - actually, it is worse than worthless, if people use its results.

At that time, very sincere people started telling me "2500 climate scientists believe AGW is real" That clinched it for me. I wanted to understand the science for myself - not rely on the idea that some other people believed it was true. Jeff Glassman put it better than I can:

AGW fails the test because it is proclaimed by a consensus. Science places no value on such a vote. A unanimous opinion, much less a consensus, is insufficient. Science advances one scientist at a time and we honor their names. When the article gets around to saying "most scientists believe...," it's time to go back to the comics section. Science relies instead on models that make factual predictions that are or might be validated. (Conjecture, Hypothesis, Theory, Law- The Basis of Rational Argument)

Finally I read the Climategate emails. Even if I were not capable of understanding the physics and the statistical analysis for myself, to see the shenanigans of people such as Jones and Mann (leading "climate scientists"), suppressing views they did not agree with, would in any case have convinced me that the whole thing is hokum.

I imagine that many readers of the B[ishop]H[ill] blog have backgrounds in physical science and will have formed opinions about the validity of AGW predictions in roughly the same way I have done.
Click to expand...
 
Well...

The specific report that opens this specific thread seems terribly flimsy to me. If the general case against climate change science rests on great scepticism about dodgy forecasts based on doubtful premises lacking a basis of agreed empirical data - to me the report by Utilyx seems to me a dodgy forecast, based on doubtful premises, lacking a basis of agreed empirical data.

P
 
patrick1 said:
I presume this is intended in some way to be alarmist. Actually the cost of power to the consumer in the UK doubled in the preceding decade, 2000 to 2010, so '58 pc' in a decade would at least represent a slower rate of growth. Source: Insitute for Fiscal Studies

The Daily Mail, well-known for its green socialist critiques of capitalism, reported in the winter of 2009/2010 on the enormous increases in profits of energy companies during the 2000s: << While the profits of British Gas - which declares its profits on Thursday - and UK-based provider Scottish & Southern Energy are transparent, the same is not true of the other major firms.

Companies such as nPower and Eon hide rising profits within the accounts of their German parent companies. The same is true of EDF, which is French, and Scottish Power, which is Spanish-owned. Official customer body Consumer Focus and the Conservatives have called for an inquiry into the industry and the failure to pass on wholesale price reductions.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252461/British-Gas-profits-surge-50-cash-strapped-elderly-freeze.html#ixzz1VmFIUYvp>>

I like that phrase, '...and the Conservatives'. Of course they weren't in power then.

Patrick
Click to expand...






The competitive market spanked the European gas companies this year because spot natural gas prices are substantially lower than long-term natural gas prices.

They're all trying to renegotiate their contracts with Russia's Gazprom because the long-term natural gas supply contracts are all priced off petroleum prices. As you likely know, there's a HUGE, historically unprecedented disconnect between natural gas prices and petroleum prices. The current WTI ( West Texas Intermediate) price of $84.98/barrel is 20.7x the current Henry Hub spot price of $4.09/mcf. The BTU equivalent of a barrel of petroleum is 5.8 mcf; thus the energy content of natural gas is selling at the equivalent of $23.72/barrel of petroleum. The ratio is even more distorted if one uses Brent as a benchmark with Brent spot prices well over $100/barrel ( the Brent-WTI distortion is partially attributable to the cutoff of Libyan crude with the result that European refiners have bid up Brent ).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...l-link-says-gas-customers-made-mistakes-.html


Gazprom Defends Oil Link, Says Gas Customers Made ‘Mistakes’
By Anna Shiryaevskaya
Aug 26, 2011

...EON AG and RWE AG (RWE), Germany’s biggest utilities, have sought to weaken the link between gas and oil prices in the Russian export monopoly’s supply contracts as oil costs surged. The companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars in the past year as they sold gas to customers at less than it cost to source...

...EON, which this month reported its first quarterly net loss in 10 years, earlier this year sought to change the contract formula to as much as a 100 percent spot indexation, two people with knowledge of the matter said in February. Komlev said at the time that Gazprom wouldn’t agree to the request...
Click to expand...
 
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