Relationship Boredom

There is always a lot written here on Lit about married women losing interest in sex with their husbands. I came across this article which might explain things.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...get-bored-sex-long-term-relationships/582736/

"https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/women-get-bored-sex-long-term-relationships/582736/" if the link does not work.

Interesting read. Any thoughts from the ladies on the validity of this? How many women would be interested in an actual open marriage where you could safely have other sex partners besides your husband? Now of course they could have other sex partners too.

Sounds to me like Jane is nuts, if she thinks she can have the same kind of sex when she first meets a man and twenty years after that.

That said - in my experience, and from what I've heard from other women, the issue isn't boredom, it's disappointment. Men don't put in as much thought and effort as we expect them to. To such a situation an open marriage is hardly a solution, except as a temporary distraction or a test drive for a husband to replace the old one.

StarGazer58 said:

There is always a lot written here on Lit about married women losing interest in sex with their husbands. I came across this article which might explain things.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...get-bored-sex-long-term-relationships/582736/

"https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/women-get-bored-sex-long-term-relationships/582736/" if the link does not work.

Interesting read. Any thoughts from the ladies on the validity of this? How many women would be interested in an actual open marriage where you could safely have other sex partners besides your husband? Now of course they could have other sex partners too.

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I think it's very valid, at least from my limited experiences.

cara2272 said:

Sounds to me like Jane is nuts, if she thinks she can have the same kind of sex when she first meets a man and twenty years after that.

That said - in my experience, and from what I've heard from other women, the issue isn't boredom, it's disappointment. Men don't put in as much thought and effort as we expect them to. To such a situation an open marriage is hardly a solution, except as a temporary distraction or a test drive for a husband to replace the old one.

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So it is up to the man to make all of the effort as far as sex goes? I am curious as to what thought and effort you are thinking about?

Is it that man to be more romantic, preparing a candle lite dinner then laying in front of the fire with a glass of wine, kissing and cuddling before sex? Or does the man needs to come with new ideas like the blindfold seduction or maybe on a hot summer night using a ice cube to trace a cold line down valley between her naked breasts and over their curves, stopping to hold the ice cube above her nipple, watching as a cold drop slowly forms and then drips and over her hardening nipple, each drop sending shivers through her body before he lowers his head and sucks her cold, hard nipple into the warmth of his mouth? Or do you want to be your husbands sub, having him tell you to get naked and start the shower, then to use your body as a sponge, slippery with soap, rubbing up and down his body, circling him in the shower with your body pressed against his as you bathe him clean?

So what is the woman's role to keep sex fresh and fun in a long term relationship?

I said: men don't put in as much thought and effort as we expect them to.
I did not say: ONLY men need to put in ALL the thought and effort.
Because you asked about why women are unsatisfied, you see.

What I meant, for instance, was when I asked my guy to give a massage, and what he did instead was watch TV while rubbing his hand in a circle over palm-sized area on my back. It was nice for a few minutes. It got unpleasant after a short while, felt like he was trying to rub my skin off my back. The way I see it, if he was looking to provide pleasure, he might have at least tried to do better than that. He did not deliver a massage, he delivered a message: I don't care. And that was the bad part. You can pay a guy to give you a massage, pretty much any guy any time. You can't get a guy to care whether you're enjoying it, if he doesn't. And if he doesn't care, often and long enough, it will affect the entire relationship significantly.

Your ideas sound like fun but I think it would largely depend on the woman's taste, or even on the phase she's in. I don't know; you can start by asking. Not all women will tell you everything - they may not even know everything they might enjoy - so maybe try a few things, gently and carefully, and see how she responds. Personally, I might enjoy an open relationship, but I view that as more on the extreme end of things. It's risky, both practically and emotionally. I think small things are better to start with. Candles and ice cubes and stuff

I'd say pretty much goes for the other side. When I was with someone, I asked him what he fantasised about, what we weren't doing that he'd like to. He's not the talkative type, so I also watched and listened, trying to pick up on things. He loved oral sex, so he got lots. He liked girls with long hair, so I stopped cutting mine. He liked a particular colour of clothes on a woman, so I got a few items. Things like that, some he might not want shared publically.

I think plain common sense and an even more common amount of horny can get you a long way with these things, if you devote some energy to it.

cara2272 said:

I said: men don't put in as much thought and effort as we expect them to.
I did not say: ONLY men need to put in ALL the thought and effort.
Because you asked about why women are unsatisfied, you see.

What I meant, for instance, was when I asked my guy to give a massage, and what he did instead was watch TV while rubbing his hand in a circle over palm-sized area on my back. It was nice for a few minutes. It got unpleasant after a short while, felt like he was trying to rub my skin off my back. The way I see it, if he was looking to provide pleasure, he might have at least tried to do better than that. He did not deliver a massage, he delivered a message: I don't care. And that was the bad part. You can pay a guy to give you a massage, pretty much any guy any time. You can't get a guy to care whether you're enjoying it, if he doesn't. And if he doesn't care, often and long enough, it will affect the entire relationship significantly.

Your ideas sound like fun but I think it would largely depend on the woman's taste, or even on the phase she's in. I don't know; you can start by asking. Not all women will tell you everything - they may not even know everything they might enjoy - so maybe try a few things, gently and carefully, and see how she responds. Personally, I might enjoy an open relationship, but I view that as more on the extreme end of things. It's risky, both practically and emotionally. I think small things are better to start with. Candles and ice cubes and stuff

I'd say pretty much goes for the other side. When I was with someone, I asked him what he fantasised about, what we weren't doing that he'd like to. He's not the talkative type, so I also watched and listened, trying to pick up on things. He loved oral sex, so he got lots. He liked girls with long hair, so I stopped cutting mine. He liked a particular colour of clothes on a woman, so I got a few items. Things like that, some he might not want shared publically.

I think plain common sense and an even more common amount of horny can get you a long way with these things, if you devote some energy to it.

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I get what you are saying. I can understand where a guy is not paying enough attention to you outside of the bedroom can affect how you feel about him. I am pretty imaginative but after 20 years I would run out new things to try so no matter what, sex can get repetitive with the same person in a long term relationship.

I took from the article not so much that women want to try new things but rather they want to try things, maybe the same old things, just with another guy. Obviously it does not apply to all women but it seems from the article that there a large number of women who do feel that way.

I know a lot of women say that sex is all about the emotional connection but to me, someone new can be very exciting and fun. There is something about someone new, finding out all the places she loves to be touched, experiencing new tastes, new smells, new sensations. There is also pleasure in being comfortable, knowing the other person intimately but I think a combo of both would ideal.

I agree that most people are not comfortable talking about sex, telling their fantasies to another, even an intimate partner. It is something that most times needs to be taken slowly, trying new things but even then how many people are actually comfortable trying something new? Ever since the popularity of 50 Shades I have wondered how many women really want to be tied up with a grey tie? Is there some secret fantasy of the everyday woman that drove the popularity of those books?

As far as the long hair, I definitely agree with that guy, long hair is so much better than short hair. So many ideas come to mind when the woman has long hair. lol

Well, look at it this way: us humans haven't run out of interesting ways to make art in way longer than 20 years. We still make - and enjoy - new movies, though one could argue that not many of them are entirely original. We eat the same food, sit on relatively similar furniture, and can't seem to invent anything new in terms of lingerie for centuries now. But things come and go, fashions come and go, padding is added to the chairs and then removed for no good reason at all - and we love it. If they made a new Indiana Jones movie, I'd probably watch it. Every year, in May, strawberries taste just as delicious as they had the last year. Maybe, if you remember something that your wife loved in bed ten years ago, that you haven't done in years, she'd find it hot again. It won't be entirely new, but then it will be a nod to the past, which is wonderful in other ways. She'll think, gosh, he remembers. And he knows me well enough to pick this one thing that I like. You can't do that sort of thing with someone new. Not saying opening a relationship can't be fun, but I think it's more likely to work out if it's done for good reasons.

I don't get why everyone's talking about 50 Shades, as if BDSM didn't exist before it. To be fair, I haven't made it all the way through, but to me it seemed like one of a dozen Black Lace books I'd read, only not as good. And then those have their predecessors going centuries back. There's quite enough reading material to give you enough ideas to keep you occupied for another 20 years, I'm sure

Oh and yes, I kept the hair

cara2272 said:

Well, look at it this way: us humans haven't run out of interesting ways to make art in way longer than 20 years. We still make - and enjoy - new movies, though one could argue that not many of them are entirely original. We eat the same food, sit on relatively similar furniture, and can't seem to invent anything new in terms of lingerie for centuries now. But things come and go, fashions come and go, padding is added to the chairs and then removed for no good reason at all - and we love it. If they made a new Indiana Jones movie, I'd probably watch it. Every year, in May, strawberries taste just as delicious as they had the last year. Maybe, if you remember something that your wife loved in bed ten years ago, that you haven't done in years, she'd find it hot again. It won't be entirely new, but then it will be a nod to the past, which is wonderful in other ways. She'll think, gosh, he remembers. And he knows me well enough to pick this one thing that I like. You can't do that sort of thing with someone new. Not saying opening a relationship can't be fun, but I think it's more likely to work out if it's done for good reasons.

I don't get why everyone's talking about 50 Shades, as if BDSM didn't exist before it. To be fair, I haven't made it all the way through, but to me it seemed like one of a dozen Black Lace books I'd read, only not as good. And then those have their predecessors going centuries back. There's quite enough reading material to give you enough ideas to keep you occupied for another 20 years, I'm sure

Oh and yes, I kept the hair

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First I wanted to say that I did not create this thread in particular about me or my situation. I created it because I thought the article was interesting and provided a different take on the classic "My wife is not interested in sex anymore" and I wanted to hear others peoples opinion on it.

Every example you gave above was for something new. Nobody wants to sit around and look at the same painting year after year so new paintings are created to bring some variety to art. There are landscapes paintings of oceans, woods and city streets but there is just not one but thousands to choose from and when you tire of one painting you can replace it with a new one. Same for Strawberries. Those first strawberries of the summer are great but if you feed them to me morning, noon and night for 30 days I am going to get tired of them and them maybe I will want to try blackberries or blueberries. The reason why they might make a new Indiana Jones movie is because everyone has seen the old movies and wants to see a new adventure. Most people don't want to see the rerun of a movie a 100 times. TV shows come and go, celebrities come and go. Why, because people like new, they like variety. People like to try new foods and drinks. Variety is the spice of life.

I think 50 Shades brought BDSM into the mainstream for some reason. I have never read the books or seen the movies but the first I heard about it was when a radio show one morning on the way to work talked about grey ties being sold out everywhere and the connection to the book. I guess it struck some chord with a lot of people for some reason.

Glad you kept the hair.

Yeah... except you're not the painting. You're the artist.

And there absolutely are paintings you may want to look at your entire life and not get bored with them.

a great question, and you covered it very well I think!

First of all, Cara and StarGazer, I thank both of you for a good thorough discussion on a difficult subject. You covered a lot of territory, I believe, and the subject is an important one at that.

I'd like to participate in your conversation, if you allow me. But I can do that only from a man's view point. So listening to me, you'd have to be prepared to believe that women and men feel very similar regarding the question you – or the Atlantic – has raised.

First of all, I posit that boredom can be avoided, with measures like both of you proposed. And a few others in addition. But when we rephrase the question as follows, the answer will come out like the Atlantic article, I fear: "Will a sexual relationship with a new person necessarily introduce some newness, which feels exciting?" A resounding YES on that one.

So it seems to me, if a couple both crave newness now and then, with the attendant excitement, that cannot be had any other way than via one or more new partners. Maybe in the form of "adjunct" partners, as in FFM or MFM sex. Or like in an open relationship, where one of the primary partners is excluded temporarily. But that requires a lot of openness, and also some risk-taking. And a lack of jealousy.

Something one can hardly expect from 100% of all couples. Considering these difficulties, plain temporary cheating without telling, may be much easier to take. And for a few people that seems like a preferred modus operandi anyway. I am talking about people I'd call cuckolds, in a very wide sense of the word.

Seems to me when the partnership is particularly strong, both may even be able to agree on such affairs to be temporary. Because of overwhelmingly strong bonds existing between the primary partners.

From the standpoint of a man, a desire for a new woman now and then can be explained by what (Mother Nature = tens of thousands of years of evolution), has set out to do, when she developed human sexuality. And maybe the very same reasoning applies also to women with strong sex drives. "In the interest of survival and growth" of the human species, I mean.

So since it is futile to resist Mother Nature, why not simply follow her guidance? I would argue at least. Accept the thesis of (newness = more exciting"), enjoy it, and be done with it.

What is your opinion on that, Cara? Star Gazer seems to agree already, and if I read her comment right, Quiet Looking as well.

Not quite. I was married for 22 years. I didn't find out until after we married that he thought sex outside of marriage was fine but sex with a wife was only for procreation.

I did know some things prior to marriage that seemed odd. He was fine with his own naked body. He liked going to strip clubs. But he thought porn was disgusting and didn't want to see my naked body ever, or even a nude picture in a magazine.

We didn't have sex on our wedding night. He wasn't even with me. He took off to go gambling. We only had sex three times during our marriage. I had tried to initiate sex in the beginning. But soon, my thoughts turned to other things, Having sex with a person who made gagging/retching noises during it was a big turn off to me. So was all the verbal abuse about how disgusting I was for wanting sex. He thought women should want nothing more than to cook, clean, provide financially for their man and do whatever would please him. But pleasing him did not include sex.

There was more to it. If we did have sex, all blinds had to be closed, lights off. I had to wear a high necked flannel gown to cover me fully, even in summer. No touching except for genitals. No speaking. I was to lie still and get no satisfaction from it at all. Meanwhile, he was screwing around with other people but denying it. I had far too much evidence of that.

Odd thing is, he was attracted to me because of my dancing, the erotic stories I had written, what I looked like and I had thought sex. Nope. Turned out everything I thought I knew about him was a lie. He said he created a persona I would fall in love with. And yet? He expected me to make him a millionaire with my writing. But... Once married, he would not allow me to write, dance or do any of the other things I liked to do. I did do these things when he was away and that was much of the time. He was either out golfing or overseas for the first few years of our marriage. Things got worse for me after he was no longer overseas.

We tried marriage counseling. Three times! I remember the first time. The counselor asked him what he thought the problem was? He said, "sex". My hand went up. My mouth flew open. He immediately changed his tune and said the sex was fine. Mostly I was never allowed to speak during the sessions as he took over the conversation and set about trying to convince the counselor that I was mentally ill. So from there on, most of session revolved around them trying to find out what was wrong with ME!

At some point, his true colors would show. He would sit back and laugh at the stupid counselor for believing all that he said. And the counselor would sit there shaking her head (they were all female) and telling us that there was nothing they could do to help us because the problem was with him.

I did get him to go to counseling on his own. This was forced by his employer. I won't get into the particulars of that but it wasn't pleasant. After several sessions, she said she wanted to see me. This counselor told him he could not speak until she told him to. She actually listened to me and when it was his turn to speak, he admitted that all I said was true. Her response to him was that he had so many underlying problems that he shouldn't BE in a relationship of any kind and due to the nature of his problems (there were many). she didn't think a lifetime of counseling would even help him. He's the type that sees everyone else as having or causing the problems and he is perfect.

To make matters worse, he refused to allow me out of the relationship. Lest anyone think there was physical abuse or some such. Not exactly or not directly. He just did all sorts of other controlling things to me and others in my life, making threats to them as to what would happen if they helped me. And no, the cops were of no help to me there. And allowing me enough money to live on but not hire an attorney. I keep hearing about lawyers who work pro bono but finding one was impossible. And I wasn't low income because he made good money. He just hid the money in various places that I was not privy to.

I realize that my case is likely not typical. But after just a few insufferable months of being married to that man, sex from him wasn't even on my radar. To me, sex should be fun for both people. Not a chore that gives no satisfaction.

I have been divorced for almost a year now. I do want sex. I still love sex but... As far as jumping into another relationship, I guess you could say that I have trust issues now. So... That's my story.

glBock said:

So since it is futile to resist Mother Nature, why not simply follow her guidance? I would argue at least. Accept the thesis of (newness = more exciting"), enjoy it, and be done with it.

What is your opinion on that, Cara? Star Gazer seems to agree already, and if I read her comment right, Quiet Looking as well.

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Star Gazer and Quietly looking bring up some good points. Yours isn't. Just because something is natural, doesn't make it suitable in unmodified form. This is why we have toilets, instead of going right in the middle of our living rooms when the urge strikes. At least, most of us. Judging by some of your own posts on Lit, you may have different habits with your output.

I'm actually pro open marriage, which you'd have noticed if you'd read what I've written. I believe it can make lives more interesting and relationships stronger. But, as with anything, declaring an open marraige always good or always bad is - at best - naive. I was in an open relationship for five years; I quite enjoyed it, but there were bumps in the road. For him, much more than me, and in surprising ways.

Jada59 said:

Not quite. I was married for 22 years. I didn't find out until after we married that he thought sex outside of marriage was fine but sex with a wife was only for procreation.

...

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Your story is so sad, Jada. I hope things improve for you

Jada59 said:

Not quite. I was married for 22 years. I didn't find out until after we married that he thought sex outside of marriage was fine but sex with a wife was only for procreation.

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That sounds just plain awful. sorry you had to put up with all that. You deserve better.

cantankerous

Are you familiar with the term, Cara? I had thought of this word, when I followed your discussion with Star Gazer. Always finding another reason for not quite agreeing with him. Well some women seem to tick like that.

I wish you luck with your next open relationship. although, maybe the fellow deserves my good-luck wishes even more.

glBock said:

Are you familiar with the term, Cara? I had thought of this word, when I followed your discussion with Star Gazer. Always finding another reason for not quite agreeing with him. Well some women seem to tick like that.

I wish you luck with your next open relationship. although, maybe the fellow deserves my good-luck wishes even more.

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So here's the funny thing. You sent me a private message last year saying, "Most people beat around the bush, but you do not, and I like an approach like that. "

Based on our previous interactions on this forum, and you interactions with other people, I told you I wasn't interested.

And now I'm "cantankerous".

Well, you're amusing, if nothing else.

cara2272 said:

So here's the funny thing. You sent me a private message last year saying, "Most people beat around the bush, but you do not, and I like an approach like that. "

Based on our previous interactions on this forum, and you interactions with other people, I told you I wasn't interested.

And now I'm "cantankerous".

Well, you're amusing, if nothing else.

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If you were able to read diligently, you would have noticed that I mentioned cantankerous relative to your conversation with Star Gazer

Could be it came across like that, and if so, I wish it hadn't. I enjoyed that conversation and hope he has as well, despite having different views on the matter.

cara2272 said:

Your story is so sad, Jada. I hope things improve for you

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Yes, they have!

Midwest50Guy said:

That sounds just plain awful. sorry you had to put up with all that. You deserve better.

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It's all good now!

Jada59 said:

It's all good now!

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Jada, glad to hear that.

I wonder if there is a biological basis for women to find sex with a very familiar partner less appealing. From an evolutionary basis, having this trait could prevent incest and result in stronger offspring. Just an idle thought.

Jada59 said:

It's all good now!

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Hi Jada,
I am really glad that you were finally able to get out and are living a much happier life. Life is too short not to try and be happy living it.

quietlylooking said:

Jada, glad to hear that.

I wonder if there is a biological basis for women to find sex with a very familiar partner less appealing. From an evolutionary basis, having this trait could prevent incest and result in stronger offspring. Just an idle thought.

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I've heard of this
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/contact-with-dad-drops-when-women-179281

Doesn't seem to be a very in-depth study though. I mean,with most women, if you're horny, Daddy isn't the first person to call. It could be just a cultural bias rather than a biological mechanism.

cara2272 said:

I've heard of this
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/contact-with-dad-drops-when-women-179281

Doesn't seem to be a very in-depth study though. I mean,with most women, if you're horny, Daddy isn't the first person to call. It could be just a cultural bias rather than a biological mechanism.

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Interesting read Cara. I would think that physical proximity would be more of a driving factor to avoid contact during fertile times than a phone call. That kind of implies that the short time that phones have been available have already altered the psychology of women.

I wonder what the finding would be for phone calls with brothers who I believe would be more of a risk of sexual contact risk than a father. Most fathers have very strong drive to protect their daughters rather than have sex with them. Brothers are usually much closer in age to the woman, probably have a higher sex drive than the father and also probably lower feelings of protection for their sister.

It might also be a cultural thing since the very rich and Royalty back in the day seemed to do a lot of intermarriage with close male relatives. I wonder if those women felt a revulsion to those marriages or had been raised to feel it was normal?

cara2272 said:

Yeah... except you're not the painting. You're the artist.

And there absolutely are paintings you may want to look at your entire life and not get bored with them.

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Being the artist I would want to paint new pictures, not stop at just the one.