Ask a MtF TG a question

45 minutes or so on Google indicates that it is an old English term.

The Bosworth-Toller Anglo-Saxon Dictionary says:

bæddel
es; m. A hermaphrodite; hermaphroditus

Wǽpen-wífestre vel scritta vel bæddel hermaphroditus, Ælfc. Gl. 76; Som. 71, 125; Wrt. Voc. 45, 28. v. wǽpen-wífestre, scritta.​

From the same source we see that scritta is related to scraette, an adulteress or harlot. I believe wǽpen-wífestre refers literally to a female (wif) warrior (as indicated here), though the Old English dictionary also translates that as 'hermaphrodite'. Considering the juxtaposition with the (possibly derogatory) sexual connotation of 'scritta', either of the terms could conceivably mean a gay man or intersex person or maybe even a butch lesbian or simply a woman adopting a non-traditional role. It's easy to see how all of those terms can get wrapped up in each other such that the original meaning is lost.

One writer on Old English has apparently considered the related word baedling to mean 'gay man', as noted here.

Another translation gives 'an effeminate man, hermaphrodite'.

However, another notes that "baedling [...] appears only four times in the extant literature. [...] The Dictionary of Old English defines it cautiously as '? effeminate man ? homosexual ?', although as we shall see this is perhaps not cautious enough. in both glosses, the word seems to have associations of effeminacy, and these associations are supplemented by the probably cognate noun baeddel 'hermaphrodite', which again appears only twice in a glossary." (from Clark, Between Medieval Men: Male Friendship and Desire in Early Medieval English Literature Clark goes on to say that it could refer to "neither man nor woman, but some indeterminate gender. In this context, it would chime well with baeddel 'hermaphrodite', and could perhaps represent another kind of indeterminacy analogous to that of eunuchs [...] though not including a physical lack of a penis".

So in the modern context it appears to be a reinterpretation of an old word of indeterminate meaning as something equally indeterminate :D but that is approximated by 'intersex' or 'transwoman'.
 
Last edited:
Wow, thanks Haurni :rose:
Looks like binary prejudice goes back centuries then :rolleyes:
...or do I mean non-binary - I made that mistake before didn't I? It's been a long day... *sigh*
 
Yep - got another petition for y'all :) Dead simple though

http://chn.ge/1r1xn04

That link takes you to a petition to get Amazon to categorize transgender fiction to not include erotica. As someone who routinely searches for trans fiction of all media, books have been the most frustrating to try to find.
Please take the one minute out of your life to sign it. Help us make a difference, and help people like us find meaningful fiction about those with GID.
 
Hi! This is a nice thing you are doing. It spreads the awareness and stuff.
A lot of things pass my mind, I've been reading on these stuff and trying to lean in my academic learning in that direction, yet now I'm baffled.

What part of wanting to be a man do you like? (it's probably the most common and dumb thing you hear but let me explain)
I come from a very... patriarch society (I think that would be the right term) with strong emphasis on masculinity and stuff.
Here FtM people are often muscular and big (not a nice thing If you ask me) yet It seems that in the western parts It's more of a gender issue as a whole. I came across a FtM who is quite submissive and shy and It was a really nice thing.
I understand you can't base the whole thing on couple of people, but that's why I want to know more.
I completely understand the need to be a boy, I understand people go in different directions on the whole hormones and sex change issues (It works different for some people).
I just wish to understand better the directions and goals that people have when it come to that.
 
Look again Alfred
I'm not here to be patronised, least of all by someone who doesn't do their research
___________________________________________________________________
Yep - got another petition for y'all Dead simple though

http://chn.ge/1r1xn04

That link takes you to a petition to get Amazon to categorize transgender fiction to not include erotica. As someone who routinely searches for trans fiction of all media, books have been the most frustrating to try to find.
Please take the one minute out of your life to sign it. Help us make a difference, and help people like us find meaningful fiction about those with GID.
 
Last edited:
Hi! This is a nice thing you are doing. It spreads the awareness and stuff.
A lot of things pass my mind, I've been reading on these stuff and trying to lean in my academic learning in that direction, yet now I'm baffled.

What part of wanting to be a man do you like? (it's probably the most common and dumb thing you hear but let me explain)
I come from a very... patriarch society (I think that would be the right term) with strong emphasis on masculinity and stuff.
Here FtM people are often muscular and big (not a nice thing If you ask me) yet It seems that in the western parts It's more of a gender issue as a whole. I came across a FtM who is quite submissive and shy and It was a really nice thing.
I understand you can't base the whole thing on couple of people, but that's why I want to know more.
I completely understand the need to be a boy, I understand people go in different directions on the whole hormones and sex change issues (It works different for some people).
I just wish to understand better the directions and goals that people have when it come to that.

I think you are probably asking me these questions-- Stickygirl is a trans woman.

Unfortunately, my answers will only add to your confusion. I have never been binary-- its never been "I need to be a man" for me. So I can't really give you typical answers.

I am not and never was big and muscular, I was never a tomboy. I am not especially sweet and shy or submissive, and i don't mind being penetrated during sex. What was always missing for me, was the ability to return that favor, penetrating my partner in return. Pretty much that simple. I wanted my missing penis.

So, that's the sexuality part of it.

Our American society has a strong emphasis on masculinity. We tend to denigrate feminine displays of emotions,compassion, and we have drawn a smaller and smaller ring around what is proper for men-- to the point where I really don't want to be part of that prison. I have no desire to compete for such paltry prizes. That's the main reason why I no longer consider myself "trans male" and now consider myself "trans masculine."

Or something like that, anyway...
 
I think you are probably asking me these questions-- Stickygirl is a trans woman.

I was confused for sure :cool:

Our American society has a strong emphasis on masculinity. We tend to denigrate feminine displays of emotions,compassion, and we have drawn a smaller and smaller ring around what is proper for men-- to the point where I really don't want to be part of that prison. I have no desire to compete for such paltry prizes. That's the main reason why I no longer consider myself "trans male" and now consider myself "trans masculine."

Or something like that, anyway...

Oh I like that circle thought, Stella. Perfect. :)
 
I know I'm not a very sexual peraon ( at the moment ) but I like the open minded attitude to sex on Lit. BUT
Does anyone else end up depressed by porn videos? I'm not meaning the *yawn* ones, but ones that are just ... meh ... just degrading I suppose? There are one or two I'd count as genuinely hot but most are not. I've read that lesbians find little in porn they find satisfying so I can relate to that. I'm not looking at trans porn specifically but certainly most of that is poor.
Sorry - this is prob just me being boring :cool:
 
I know I'm not a very sexual peraon ( at the moment ) but I like the open minded attitude to sex on Lit. BUT
Does anyone else end up depressed by porn videos? I'm not meaning the *yawn* ones, but ones that are just ... meh ... just degrading I suppose? There are one or two I'd count as genuinely hot but most are not. I've read that lesbians find little in porn they find satisfying so I can relate to that. I'm not looking at trans porn specifically but certainly most of that is poor.
Sorry - this is prob just me being boring :cool:

I don't get depressed by them, there's too much else in the world to be depressed about.

I just don't think that there's much there there anymore. You're too young to have been around for the golden age of porn (70s and 80's) where there were plots and stars. People had followings. I don't know if there are many out there who do anymore. Maybe James Deen.

For the most part, it seems to be all gonzo porn...it's just sex. There's nothing else going on. There are a few companies out there who are making better porn, I guess...

Try checking out:
Behind the Green Door
Chameleon
Where the Boys Aren't
 
I know I'm not a very sexual peraon ( at the moment ) but I like the open minded attitude to sex on Lit. BUT
Does anyone else end up depressed by porn videos? I'm not meaning the *yawn* ones, but ones that are just ... meh ... just degrading I suppose? There are one or two I'd count as genuinely hot but most are not. I've read that lesbians find little in porn they find satisfying so I can relate to that. I'm not looking at trans porn specifically but certainly most of that is poor.
Sorry - this is prob just me being boring :cool:
same here. :)

I far prefer still images, because I can construct the action in my head. Or the written word, because then I can read the action in her head.
 
Thanks Stella ( so I'm not mad then )

Actually 3B I do get depressed because of the way that the porn industry represents trans women and lets face it, the market for that stuff is huge. I don't know what percentage of the male population has seen tranny porn but I'm guessing prob 50% of the adult western male population and of those maybe 10% watch it regularly when they view porn.

It impacts directly on my life because it reinforces the stereotype. If I meet someone socially and I choose to out myself as trans*, there's a pause - I can see it in their eyes - while they process the information. Depending where they sit on the social skills spectrum will illicit responses ranging from 'So do you still have y'know *nod* down there' to a befuddled 'Oh'. Either way, I can see them mentally trying to bat images of silicon tits and photoshopped dicks out of their head. As conversation stoppers go, it's up there, so I don't tell people.

I get annoyed by the criticism from the trans* community for going stealth (ie not announcing to all and sundry that 'Actually I used to be a boy I hope you're ok with that' ) because selfishly, I have my own life to lead. To my mind, stealth is the same slur as trap, but it just comes from a different place. Seems like you really can't fucking please anyone.

I had a comment from a trans woman online the other day 'oh, so you're stealth'. Nothing more was said or needed to be because the criticism was implicit. We trans women have a knack for continually isolating ourselves: first from the cis community, then the lesbian one, then from 'our' own. If a hetero person asks a lesbian something polite like "does your husband work in finance as well?" then she'll just politely correct them - it's simply done. I can't do that socially: what question would prompt my correction and what answer can be simply said, without opening a Pandora's box of speculation - watching their eyes again?

What really fucked me off with that comment was that person knew nothing about my background, yet she put me down. The criticism is about as accurate as a grenade in a crowd. Of course I tell people when they have a need to know, but I'll decide when that is. I have no obligation to do otherwise.

*rant over*
 
Thanks Stella ( so I'm not mad then )

Actually 3B I do get depressed because of the way that the porn industry represents trans women and lets face it, the market for that stuff is huge. I don't know what percentage of the male population has seen tranny porn but I'm guessing prob 50% of the adult western male population and of those maybe 10% watch it regularly when they view porn.

It impacts directly on my life because it reinforces the stereotype. If I meet someone socially and I choose to out myself as trans*, there's a pause - I can see it in their eyes - while they process the information. Depending where they sit on the social skills spectrum will illicit responses ranging from 'So do you still have y'know *nod* down there' to a befuddled 'Oh'. Either way, I can see them mentally trying to bat images of silicon tits and photoshopped dicks out of their head. As conversation stoppers go, it's up there, so I don't tell people.

I get annoyed by the criticism from the trans* community for going stealth (ie not announcing to all and sundry that 'Actually I used to be a boy I hope you're ok with that' ) because selfishly, I have my own life to lead. To my mind, stealth is the same slur as trap, but it just comes from a different place. Seems like you really can't fucking please anyone.

I had a comment from a trans woman online the other day 'oh, so you're stealth'. Nothing more was said or needed to be because the criticism was implicit. We trans women have a knack for continually isolating ourselves: first from the cis community, then the lesbian one, then from 'our' own. If a hetero person asks a lesbian something polite like "does your husband work in finance as well?" then she'll just politely correct them - it's simply done. I can't do that socially: what question would prompt my correction and what answer can be simply said, without opening a Pandora's box of speculation - watching their eyes again?

What really fucked me off with that comment was that person knew nothing about my background, yet she put me down. The criticism is about as accurate as a grenade in a crowd. Of course I tell people when they have a need to know, but I'll decide when that is. I have no obligation to do otherwise.

*rant over*

But not all porn is trans* porn. I guess it doesn't affect me as much, but I understand why it would affect you in that way.
 
Sticky, Stella: you are both like snowflakes - unique. :rolleyes:

Does anyone else end up depressed by porn videos? I'm not meaning the *yawn* ones, but ones that are just ... meh ... just degrading I suppose? There are one or two I'd count as genuinely hot but most are not. I've read that lesbians find little in porn they find satisfying so I can relate to that. I'm not looking at trans porn specifically but certainly most of that is poor.
Porn serves a particular purpose, which may vary slightly from person to person. But there's such a mass of it that you're pretty much guaranteed to find something that you like, even if you have to sift through a lot of crap. At the same time, I realize that the vast majority of it is soulless product - the sexual equivalent of low-quality junk food. I don't mind junk food, but I'm aware that there's more to the world than candy. I stay away from stuff that I consider degrading or offensive, because I don't get off on that (some people do, I guess), just like I don't eat liver or brussels sprouts because I find them revolting. If I could draw or use 3D graphics programs proficiently I'd probably create a lot of my own porn.
 
Sticky, Stella: you are both like snowflakes - unique. :rolleyes:
Not hardly unique. We might be some of the first people with this viewpoint that you've ever paid attention to, though. :rolleyes:
Porn serves a particular purpose, which may vary slightly from person to person. But there's such a mass of it that you're pretty much guaranteed to find something that you like, even if you have to sift through a lot of crap. At the same time, I realize that the vast majority of it is soulless product - the sexual equivalent of low-quality junk food. I don't mind junk food, but I'm aware that there's more to the world than candy. I stay away from stuff that I consider degrading or offensive, because I don't get off on that (some people do, I guess), just like I don't eat liver or brussels sprouts because I find them revolting. If I could draw or use 3D graphics programs proficiently I'd probably create a lot of my own porn.
Oh, no. You went there.

Haurni, I am disappoint.

Porn serves a particular purpose indeed; i don't know about you, but in my case, I use it to get myself off. And it's hard to get off when i feel sad and invisible, or when I'm trying to reconcile some actress's porn face with the misery her body language conveys.

Advise me this; how, exactly do you suggest people "sift through' all the porn out there, the shitty, ugly, saddening, waste-of-time porn-- without subjecting ourselves to it?

This is nothing like choosing not to eat the Brussel sprouts on your plate.

This is more like.. having to taste every green lump, knowing that almost all of them are going to be Brussels sprouts, until you find the couple of pieces of broccoli.

What the ever loving fuck, dear heart. Really.
 
Last edited:
Not hardly unique. We might be some of the first people with this viewpoint that you've ever paid attention to, though.
This is true.

This is nothing like choosing not to eat the Brussel sprouts on your plate.

This is more like.. having to taste every green lump, knowing that almost all of them are going to be Brussels sprouts, until you find the couple of pieces of broccoli.
This is also true, and I very much see your point.

I guess I deliberately try not to look at things that are too depressing. Of course, as a cis, hetero-presenting white male, my privileged position means that things that are offensive, objectifying, devaluing or dehumanizing to women, trans people, people of colour, gays, lesbians, etc., do not affect me as much as they would members of those groups because those are not my realities, and so my 'tolerance level' is probably higher because I'm not having stereotypes that are directly relevant to me reified at every turn. But it is through listening to people like you and SG that I become more aware of such things. And I occasionally put my foot in my mouth.
 
Thanks both and I completely agree with Stella: once you start sifting, you've already been exposed to it and one's curiosity is turned into a different mood altogether... I'll stay away from it for a while. I'll learn in the end to ignore it completely or, better still, find myself a SO.

...and thanks for the snowflake thing :)
 
Last edited:
This is true.


This is also true, and I very much see your point.

I guess I deliberately try not to look at things that are too depressing. Of course, as a cis, hetero-presenting white male, my privileged position means that things that are offensive, objectifying, devaluing or dehumanizing to women, trans people, people of colour, gays, lesbians, etc., do not affect me as much as they would members of those groups because those are not my realities, and so my 'tolerance level' is probably higher because I'm not having stereotypes that are directly relevant to me reified at every turn. But it is through listening to people like you and SG that I become more aware of such things. And I occasionally put my foot in my mouth.
The apology is much appreciated, Haurni:rose:

You do less foot-putting than most, including myself. By the way.
 
I know I'm not a very sexual peraon ( at the moment ) but I like the open minded attitude to sex on Lit. BUT
Does anyone else end up depressed by porn videos? I'm not meaning the *yawn* ones, but ones that are just ... meh ... just degrading I suppose? There are one or two I'd count as genuinely hot but most are not. I've read that lesbians find little in porn they find satisfying so I can relate to that. I'm not looking at trans porn specifically but certainly most of that is poor.
Sorry - this is prob just me being boring :cool:

I can't say typical internet porn depresses me, I think I fit into the find it unsatisfying group. The right picture, usually two women clothed in an intimate pose can do more for my imagination then watching porn. Sometimes the right story can arouse me but lately I haven't been in the mood to even start an erotic story much less finish one.

If I happened to be into men I really would be depressed by main stream porn, it's all about the penis, penis in mouth, penis in ass, penis in vagina, penis between breasts, penis, penis, penis. When one considers many men get their only sex education from watching porn it's really, really fucked up. No wonder so many straight women find their sex lives boring and why so many are watching lesbian porn, as bad as main stream lesbian porn is at least it's centered a little bit on fulfilling a woman's needs and occasionally they even show how intimate sex can be between women.

I guess when I really think about it, it is depressing!

Getting back to a more interesting and important topics I found this post by Kat Callahan really interesting.

Trans Women, Male Privilege, Socialisation, and Feminism
 
it's all about the penis, penis in mouth, penis in ass, penis in vagina, penis between breasts, penis, penis, penis.
Everybody knows that the universe revolves around The Penis. :rolleyes:

When one considers many men get their only sex education from watching porn it's really, really fucked up.
Yep. Though even without porn, what society teaches men about the sexes fucks us up.

Getting back to a more interesting and important topics I found this post by Kat Callahan really interesting.

Trans Women, Male Privilege, Socialisation, and Feminism
Thanks for that. I enjoyed the article. Having male identification and privilege (and the expectations that go with it) prior to transition while at the same time internalizing society's messages about women and being aware that they should also apply to you must make for a rather conflicting experience that I can't even begin to imagine.
 
Thanks for the link Dys and for everyone's comments and contributions :rose:: it's nice to be visible.
I've grown tired of reading articles kow-towing to rad feminists as though we trans women need their blessing to exist.

The trans-exclusion mob know they have no grounds for their objection, other than clutching at invented socio-political straws. They object by trying to negate the suffering we go through, through being misgendered as children; then being villified for being 'un-men'. If we then transition and 'pass', our experience under the patriarchy still isn't real enough, because somehow our memory of how rosey things were before we became social outcasts, numbs us to the effects of being underpaid, overlooked and objectified.

I'm not buying their argument - you'd have to be blind, deaf and plain stupid to keep looking so far the other way to believe the experiences we go through mean nothing. Is this all about comparing scars? 'Your suffering is less than mine, because as a cis-woman, my suffering began in the womb'. Lets compare suffering?! WTF Oh hang on… the currency of cis-woman suffering is more valuable than a trans woman suffering… because… because??

I'll tell you why 'because'

Because it's all smoke screen and bullshit. Anyone crass enough to put suffering in the scales for evaluation are just as hypocritical as councilman Ron Webb in Shreveport who tried to hide behind a religious stalking horse ( see Brad's video article above ). If just one of those transphobic rad-fems would have the courage to say what they really mean? The fact is they despise us and everything we stand for. They are personally revolted by us and they are so blinded by their hatred and bigotry, that frankly Kat Callahan can write all she wants, she won't even scratch their paintwork. I can deal with being hated - I've grown used to being hated by some. What I'll never get used to is the duplicity and sanctimonious bullshit of radical womyn. They're not feminists - they're an insult to feminists. They are haters, very plain and very simple, just like Ron.

Rad-fems? I'd rather associate with chasers - at least they say what they mean.
 
Last edited:
I love it when you're angry, your writing becomes so assertive.

While I agree with you Kat's writing isn't going to change the minds of those transphobic feminists who are mired in hate, just like nothing I write can change the mines of racists or older evangelical conservative Christians who preach hate not love. I do, I believe, have a chance to change the minds and hearts of their children.

Articles like Kat's can be effective with many people and can be especially effective with those who are not closed minded and the young who don't have a clue, those who don't know anyone who is trans or if they do have never really interacted with that person.

Those of us who do care about people have to counteract the lies and negative stereotypes expressed by those who hate.
 
Yea well *kicks dirt*
guess it kinda got me riled up :cool:
I should take a leaf out of the G & L stonewallers' hats and remember how long and hard they fought for change: often with the steady drip-drip of calm reasoning than throwing toys from prams. :eek:
*picks up toys*
 
Yea well *kicks dirt*
guess it kinda got me riled up :cool:
I should take a leaf out of the G & L stonewallers' hats and remember how long and hard they fought for change: often with the steady drip-drip of calm reasoning than throwing toys from prams. :eek:
*picks up toys*

There's a place and a time for throwing toys, though. And hitting people with the squeaky giraffe until they stop ignoring you.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top