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Old 10-30-2004, 08:36 AM   #1
Desdemona
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Release: when it's over

We've talked about collaring and starting relationships over the years. I don't see anything in the library about the end of a D/s relationship. Sometimes the end, and how it's managed can be just as important as the way you start a relationship.

Some of you know that I have recently been released. In our case, it became obvious that our journeys were on divergent paths. As much as we both hated to see it happen, eventually we had to face the inevitable. I place no blame. It is what it is.

Snooze has been my best friend as well as my dominant, my lover, and the one who held my heart for a couple of years. He will always have a very special and cherished place in my heart. I can never thank him enough for all he taught me and all I learned about myself while in our relationship. We plan to remain friends. Yet, this time remains difficult.

So, now the question. How have you managed the end of your D/s relationships? Any stories to tell? Any advice on how to convert to a friendship only relationship?

Please note: This thread is not a plea for pity, support or anything else. I'm sad, but fine. It's just a reflection of what is on my mind and a recognition that this seems to be less explored territory here. I'm off to work but will return in a few hours to see what you guys have to say.
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Old 10-30-2004, 09:22 AM   #2
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:52 AM   #3
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Re: Release: when it's over

In my estimation, it is a fallacy to claim that you can learn or grow from each failed relationship. Sometimes it just didn't work and there are no great insights into where it went wrong. I have grown and now can handle the unpleasantness -- whether I have to end it or whether subbie stops it -- with more maturity.

As I step out of a relationship, I try to make it civil and "clean up" any sensitive leftovers. Just destroying pictures or returning anything that outside of a BDSM context would look compromising or humiliating goes a long way to alleviating any concerns about spite. I don't really remain "friends" but I do aim for friendly. One time an ex-subbie sent me a letter one year after our breakup asking me some pointed questions and wanting to get some things off her chest. I didn't agonize over my reply but I gave her reasonable answers and acknowledged her comments towards me. That simple exchange of letters was probably more "honest" than these people who claim to remain friends with 95% of their exes.

After a relationship, I usually recalibrate my criteria for what I am looking for in a submissive. Nothing dramatic but even with years of BDSM experience, I am still learning about myself and what works for me. I review my own performance in the relationship, and sort out where I am weak or need improvement. I use my "downtime" to work on myself and get in a positive frame of mind.

Then I take a deep breath and jump into the fray again.
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:59 AM   #4
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I can rarely remain friends after a vanilla breakup, but when it involves a D/s component...not posible for me. After my Sir and I split...it was not even remotely possible. I think he was willing to try...in fact I know he was...but it was my problem that made it impossible. I could not be around him and not want and wish for the sexual power exchange...I couldn't see him in any way other than my Sir. We were friends and vanilla lovers first and then Master and sub, but once I reached that point with him, that was all there was.

I guess I don't have any real advice LOL...just that for me...I can't do it. If I met him again in 10 years, perhaps we could have lunch, but...I dunno.

How much do you all think the way the release happened has to do with it? Probably a lot. A mutual parting is probably easy to mend from, but being thrown out...

well, you get the idea...
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Old 10-30-2004, 01:42 PM   #5
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Re: Re: Release: when it's over

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Blonde
In my estimation, it is a fallacy to claim that you can learn or grow from each failed relationship.

<snippage>

Interesting insights, Mr Blonde. Howevver I have to ask; did this relationship fail? From what Desdemona said, I don't think it did. It sounds like it just ran it's natural course and came to a natural conclusion. It's a bit sad, yes, but both Des and Snoozebutton seem okay with it.

I have no wise and wonderful advice to give, since I've never been in this situation. But I'll be watching this thread with interest.
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Old 10-30-2004, 04:36 PM   #6
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When it was over, for me, the first thing I experienced was paralysis. I couldn't move, I couldn't function, I couldn't even pay the bills.

Fighting that feeling was the first and hardest thing. Forcing myself out... out the door... down the street... out anywhere.... is the best thing I did for myself. It was after all, my bed, I made it. I made the choice (ohhhh, at least a gazillion times) to end it. So, I had no one to blame but me and no one to thank but me.

Like you Des, I'm not big for a pity party. However I did rely heavily on my friends to let me cry and rant and vent and raaaaage at Him and at myself. Pain is mostly a private matter for us. And we share it with a select few. Those kinds of friends are a rare blessing, indeed.

The last thing that I wanted to hear was I "toldja so." I just wanted to carry that wound open to those who I could trust and those who I knew cared for me. And thankfully, my friends were there for me. And none of them uttered "I toldja so."

So long later, I still have moments of sadness that pull me down. But those are mostly now being replaced with memories of the good things we shared, things He taught me about me and the submissive that I am. As big a prick as He could be, I owe Him a lot.

"So don't mind if I fall apart
There's more room in a broken heart"


I love you Des.
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Old 10-30-2004, 05:09 PM   #7
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Thanks for the replies thus far

Cutie, I'll be waiting to see what you have to say after you've had time to think. Yes, it is somewhat like a divorce in many ways.

Mr Blonde, I agree that you probably can't learn from each ended relationship, but you can learn from some. I definitely think I'm recallibrating what I'm looking for as a result of knowing myself and my needs better.

InnerDarkness, once upon a time, at the end of another relationship, I felt thrown out. No, we sure didn't remain friends although our rare interactions are civil at this point. This situation has the potential for friendship and I'm hopeful that we won't let our genitals get in the way of a good friendship.

snowy ciara, your read on the circumstances is correct. This was a mutual decision based on differing needs at this point.

ADR, you make me laugh and sometimes, you make me cry. Where would I be without a friend like you? I love you, too. You know, I've put on my big girl panties and I'm dealing with it much as you did. I'm going out and doing things with friends... anything to avoid sitting home and moping. The feelings are there no matter what I do anyway.
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Old 10-30-2004, 05:32 PM   #8
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Much of your pain is self-chosen.

It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self.

Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity:

For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen,

And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears.

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Old 10-30-2004, 06:08 PM   #9
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I had this thought and had to jump out of bed to tell you about it.
Was just on the verge of sleep, too...

The other really hard part for me, after the breakup, was the ache to submit and no way to release that. No one can really understand that feeling, other than another submissive. Lucky for me, I had this other really good non-submissive friend (cough, sputter WD sputter, cough, cough) who understood that almost primal urge. It would have been very easy for me to fall back into another dysfuncional relationship were it not for him keeping me grounded and focused.

And his intent not to take advantage of a broken heart.

Having a few Dom/me friends (such as Shadowsdream and Eb, among many Doms too) gave me a lot of insight into what went wrong and what I should be thankful for. And most Dom/me's don't have a lot of time for bullshit pity parties. That's a good thing. The last thing I needed to do was to submit to the wrong person. No matter how strong the need in me to submit was, I was forced to move past it... for the most part, anyway.

It's so easy to succomb to that ache to submit. It's a need that can't fully be explained... it has to be felt to be understood.
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Old 10-30-2004, 09:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by A Desert Rose
I had this thought and had to jump out of bed to tell you about it.
Was just on the verge of sleep, too...

The other really hard part for me, after the breakup, was the ache to submit and no way to release that. No one can really understand that feeling, other than another submissive. Lucky for me, I had this other really good non-submissive friend (cough, sputter WD sputter, cough, cough) who understood that almost primal urge. It would have been very easy for me to fall back into another dysfuncional relationship were it not for him keeping me grounded and focused.

And his intent not to take advantage of a broken heart.

Having a few Dom/me friends (such as Shadowsdream and Eb, among many Doms too) gave me a lot of insight into what went wrong and what I should be thankful for. And most Dom/me's don't have a lot of time for bullshit pity parties. That's a good thing. The last thing I needed to do was to submit to the wrong person. No matter how strong the need in me to submit was, I was forced to move past it... for the most part, anyway.

It's so easy to succomb to that ache to submit. It's a need that can't fully be explained... it has to be felt to be understood.
like a drug addict needing a fix....sometimes the feeling clouds your whole world...but you do slowly recover.
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Old 10-30-2004, 10:50 PM   #11
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:24 AM   #12
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WD, that's a wonderful reminder of how important it is to mourn our losses so that we can be ready to move on without unfinished business.

ADR, I feel that ache already. KC is right; it's like an addiction. I've been very accustomed to submitting on a really regular basis. It's hard not to give in.

Cutie, you offered some very valid ideas. I think it is important to take time to regroup and figure out what you want in a relationship. I also think it will take us time to figure out how to be friends rather than falling back into comfortable roles. Your thoughts validated some of my own. Thank you.
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:56 AM   #13
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Re: Release: when it's over

When a relationship does not end on a bad note it speaks highly of both partners respect for that relationship and each other. Unfortunately, not every relationship is that way. The ones that end on a good note tend to gain a wonderful friendship over time. I am happy that you and Snooze will have the opportunity to continue to be something special to each other in the future.

Quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
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Old 10-31-2004, 04:42 AM   #14
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Thank you TigerClaw. I really do want it to work out that way.
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:20 AM   #15
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:17 AM   #16
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Ending any relationship of significance is difficult, even when it's handled maturely and amicably. Sometimes I think that's more difficult because sometimes we just don't want to be mature and amicable about everydamnedthing Whatever the reasons for ending, it is a loss and like any other loss, everyone grieves differently.

When we ended our seven year off and on relationship in a final manner...and finally acknowledged that we could not live together and wouldn't eventually end up together no matter what...it took awhile for us to be friends again. Even now, two years later, "friends" is a loose term. We needed that space to not fall back into D/s habits...because there was no hatred, no rage, no anger, it was too easy for us to fall into our former roles out of loneliness, habit, still loving each other even though we weren't IN love. It was natural for me to just do what pleased him and natural for him to expect it. But we're absolutely there for each other when we need that "best friend"....we just can't talk or spend time together casually. Yet. That may come, but I doubt it. But we will dance at each other's weddings.

It may not be the right thing for everyone, but for us to get to a comfortable level - it took time and space...and brutal honesty to get to that point of acknowledging our connection and loving each other without romance or BDSM.

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Old 10-31-2004, 10:05 AM   #17
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Cutie, thanks for the additional great ideas. BTW, feel free to call me des.

shaymless, thank you for sharing your story. I guess I want it to be less awkward and to reach that friendship stage sooner than is realistically possible. I'm glad to know it can happen, though.
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:21 PM   #18
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A lot of the anger, sadness and disappointment I felt at the end of a relationship is about misplaced expectations. He didn't behave the way I wanted him to, he didn't feel the same things I felt or wanted him to feel. In short, he disappointed me because I didn't get the behavior from him that I expected or hoped to get.

As much as we all like to say we love unconditionally, that's simply not always the case. If that were how we loved, we wouldn't feel the disappointments we feel at the end.


And then there's the jealousy aspect... but that's a whole other story. ;-D
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Old 10-31-2004, 08:58 PM   #19
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First I wish to highly recommend a book

"Bradshaw on the Family"
by John Bradshaw

It's intrduction was written by Carold Burnet

Seondly
point out the importance of picking the right person to begin with

For me over the last 12 - 14 months
I come to realize
that I am not capable of any kind of relationship

so from what has happened recently
the safest thing for me
is with draw further from people

I have three ex wives that I still maintain some positive things
but with each
we built a freindship first

I always feel sadness about my first
she was a good woman, wife and submissive
she just did not get the same man back from VN
that she married
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:09 PM   #20
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Why is uncondtional love expected in a relationship?

Unconditional love means that they can do anything and you will still love them. That includes the unthinkable actions. Should someone still be in your life after that? Let's say you forgive them and they claim they will never do it again but do? Unconditional Love means you will still Love them.

I met someone who almost made me believe in unconditonal love. Until....

The term Unconditional Love sounds nice doesnt it? Think of the worst thing that could ever happen to you. Now imagine your partner doing it and then say, you should still love them. Sounds dumb doesnt it? Dont say it cant happen. It can.

Dont ever put yourself to the test of having to give unconditional Love. I dont agree, buy into or sanction the use of the term Unconditional Love.

You may be able to forgive deeper then you ever thought you were able. You could even show love and commitment under some of the most horrible condtions. But eventually if they continue to cause you pain and not show remorse. You will reach a limit.

I am sorry for your pain. If you made it known what kind of behavoir or he told you about himself and it did not materialize you will feel pain.

Quote:
Originally posted by A Desert Rose
A lot of the anger, sadness and disappointment I felt at the end of a relationship is about misplaced expectations. He didn't behave the way I wanted him to, he didn't feel the same things I felt or wanted him to feel. In short, he disappointed me because I didn't get the behavior from him that I expected or hoped to get.

As much as we all like to say we love unconditionally, that's simply not always the case. If that were how we loved, we wouldn't feel the disappointments we feel at the end.


And then there's the jealousy aspect... but that's a whole other story. ;-D
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Old 11-01-2004, 12:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by TigerClaw
Why is uncondtional love expected in a relationship?

Unconditional love means that they can do anything and you will still love them. That includes the unthinkable actions. Should someone still be in your life after that? Let's say you forgive them and they claim they will never do it again but do? Unconditional Love means you will still Love them.

I met someone who almost made me believe in unconditonal love. Until....

The term Unconditional Love sounds nice doesnt it? Think of the worst thing that could ever happen to you. Now imagine your partner doing it and then say, you should still love them. Sounds dumb doesnt it? Dont say it cant happen. It can.

Dont ever put yourself to the test of having to give unconditional Love. I dont agree, buy into or sanction the use of the term Unconditional Love.

You may be able to forgive deeper then you ever thought you were able. You could even show love and commitment under some of the most horrible condtions. But eventually if they continue to cause you pain and not show remorse. You will reach a limit.

I am sorry for your pain. If you made it known what kind of behavoir or he told you about himself and it did not materialize you will feel pain.
So we agree.

Whether you and I think it's a good thing or not, most people put conditions or expectations on another when love is involved. We subconsciously say "I will love you if you behave like this or I will love you if you feel like I do."

Consciously, from his end it went something like this:
"If you really love and adore me, you will do X."
"If you want to serve me, you will do this thing or that."

From mine, it went like this"
"If you really care about me, you won't expect me to do X."

Yes, when someone tells you that he will never do something and then he does it, it's a different ballgame. I was speaking, however about conditions that I, personally, put on him and in the relationship as a whole. It had more to do with what I had grown to expect from knowing him for so many years and not so much on what he had told me he would or would not do.

But real or imagined, right or wrong in your view or mine, we all put some kinds of conditions on the one we love. And when those conditions are not met, it is disappointing.

That's just my opinion based on my own experiences. I think we both actually agree on this... we just seem to have come from different corners to arrive at the same conclusion.
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Old 11-01-2004, 02:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by A Desert Rose
It's so easy to succomb to that ache to submit. It's a need that can't fully be explained... it has to be felt to be understood.
Oh so true. This is my weakness that I battle against. Sometimes, it becomes more of a craving than an ache. This is when I withdrawal, for I still don't trust that I can control it enough not to fall into a bad relationship while I'm healing.
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Old 11-01-2004, 02:41 AM   #23
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ADR, unconditional love. .. maybe there's a place for that within families or something. You don't necessarily stop loving your kids, even if they've done something completely abhorrent. But I agree, it doesn't work within other relationships. We all place expectations on each other, whether we realise it or not. You're right again, when those expectations aren't met, that can be the source of great pain. I never thought about that until you pointed that out.

Richard, I wish you the best. I agree it's vital that each of us pay attention to that important point of being careful which partner we choose.

TigerClaw, you're right. We all have limits within relationships, whether we're conciously aware of them or not. If those limits are pushed to the point of pain often enough, it can certainly and should be a deal breaker. In the end, we each have to look in the mirror and be content with the person we see looking back.

kitty4ever , it's wise to withdraw until you feel strong enough to avoid choosing an unhealthy relationship. Those urges sure can be tough to manage, though.
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Old 11-01-2004, 02:42 AM   #24
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Love is when respect, responsiblity, caring and knowledge converge
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Old 11-01-2004, 03:54 AM   #25
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Re: Release: when it's over

Quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
Some of you know that I have recently been released. In our case, it became obvious that our journeys were on divergent paths. As much as we both hated to see it happen, eventually we had to face the inevitable. I place no blame. It is what it is.

Snooze has been my best friend as well as my dominant, my lover, and the one who held my heart for a couple of years. He will always have a very special and cherished place in my heart. I can never thank him enough for all he taught me and all I learned about myself while in our relationship. We plan to remain friends. Yet, this time remains difficult.
There are so many different sceneros it hard to give a single answer, however specificially in your case Desdemona, your relationship came to an end when you both realized that your journeys were on divergent paths.

Under those circumstances, I think you offer a great example by taking the attitude of..."I place no blame. It is what it is."

It also says alot about you two that you would want to remain friends. This just may time.

I think one could get some value by writing down the good things that happened, as well as the bad and learn from them.

I also think its a good idea to write out your understanding of what divergent paths means. Often is the temptation while re-engaging as friends, is to slip back into intamacy. When this happens, but nothing has change as far as the "divergent paths" are concerned, you end up hurt again and ruins any chance for futher friendship.

I think my last suggestion would be to write out your definition of what it means to be a friend to someone. As you write it out, don't think of Him, think of someone else like another lady that you have been friends with for some time. When your done, look at that list. You will find things like...

Keeping a trust...
Hoping good things for them...
Be accepting...
Have a willing ear to hear...
Be supportive...
Give good advice...

Then let yourself know its ok to be these things to Him, as that doesn't mean anything more than being a friend.
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