Across the Pond from America

For a long time, the only non-American television news program we had, came from the BBC

Now, we have BBC America, Deutsche Welle, and NHK World Some stations near the Canada border carry French language news.

Todays news-

A young Malian migrant was on Monday offered French citizenship, after he scaled the facade of a Paris apartment block to save a 4-year-old child hanging from the fourth-floor balcony.

Mamoudou Gassama met with French President Emmanuel Macron two days after the dramatic rescue, where he was also given a medal for bravery, and offered a job with the Paris fire brigade.

"I have also invited him to apply for naturalization. Because France is a state of mind, and Mr Gassama has shown with determination that he has it!" Macron added.

Gassama has been living illegally in the French capital after arriving in September 2017

http://www.dw.com/en/malian-immigrant-hailed-for-heroic-rescue-offered-french-passport/a-43954994

Sadly, in the United States, we arrest people that obey the laws, and behave like good citizens, and deport them, without giving them their legal rights.


A member of some religious denomination is telling BBC's Laura Trevelyan that abortions have increased under the domination of Republicans. A religious figure is critical of the Republicans decision to withdraw funds for birth control, and health care for pregnant women.

The sticking point that he dies not approach, is who is punished- Women that are poor, or a members of the minority community, are discouraged from giving birth in America.

He does mention that denying food, shelter, and medical care to pregnant women causes them to choose to abort.

What he said about the productivity of Republicans and legislation-

"They don't do anything. They make promises, but nothing comes of it."


Trump caused undocumented immigrants to be prosecuted for illegal entry. This is the Trump White House policy. Separating children from parents is a tactic meant to cause fear. Anyone that can travel up to Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona is discouraged from entering the USA. Ivanka Trump's photo-op, of holding up her over-sized 2 year old, blond, white European son, was deliberate. It does not matter that Ivanka, Trump, and Trump's first wife had brown hair. They bleach their hair, or dye it yellow.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...weets-photo-backlash-border-separation-policy


Guest workers will get worker visas



WASHINGTON – The Department of Homeland Security said Friday it will issue 15,000 additional guest worker visas for 2018, facing an outcry from business owners who say they’re being hurt by country’s labor squeeze.

It was the second year in a row that DHS agreed to allocate an extra 15,000 guest worker visas, on top of the 66,000 annual cap established by Congress. Lawmakers have granted DHS the authority to exceed the cap.

(Who would put any faith in the employment rates from Trump's White House ?)


Trump is not an opponent of the guest worker system, and has hired seasonal foreign labor for his golf courses and resorts.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/25/dhs-plans-to-issue-15k-more-guest-worker-visas-this-year/

gotsnowgotslush said:

Trump is not an opponent of the guest worker system, and has hired seasonal foreign labor for his golf courses and resorts.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/25/dhs-plans-to-issue-15k-more-guest-worker-visas-this-year/

Click to expand...

Not to mention his wife.

Not to mention his vineyard in Virginia where he's been trying like hell to get clearances to bring in more than 30 seasonal migrant workers from the other side of his dream wall.

There is absolutely nothing that Trump tries to do for his own benefit that squares with his public policies, such as they are. And his really, really dumb supporters--including several posters to this discussion board--just continue to be blind to how he is openly screwing them for his personal benefit.

Oct 1, 2015 · Nigel Lawson, who served as U.K. treasury chief under Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, will ... a group of Conservative parliamentarians that will campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

May 31, 2018


Nigel Lawson, a former chair of the Vote Leave campaign during the EU referendum and one of tens of thousands of Britons living in France, is to apply for his official French residency card.

(Retiring with UK pension)


Tom Blakeson
@tomblakeson
·
6h
They vote to make life worse in the UK by forcing it to leave the EU, then they abandon the UK to live in the EU. If it wasn't so depressingly believable it would be hilarious

Right Wing Hypocrites ? oh, yeah

Leeds for Europe #FBPE
@LeedsEurope
·
3h
Just over 3 weeks to go until the biggest anti-#Brexit demonstration ever seen. Don’t miss it! Tickets for transport from #Leeds & #Sheffield to London are available for a few more days. Priced just £20-27.


(Someone is jeering at the thought of another vote.)


Leeds for Europe #FBPE EU
@LeedsEurope
·
3h
Just over 3 weeks to go until the biggest anti-#Brexit demonstration ever seen. Don’t miss it! Tickets for transport from #Leeds & #Sheffield to London are available for a few more days. Priced just £20-27.

Coach from Leeds & Sheffield to London for the March for a People's Vote
eventbrite.co.uk

Henry Jenkins
@henryjenkins54
·
5h
Replying to @faisalislam
It’s just great that we’ll be able to depend on our US ‘friends’ when we’re bobbing about in the Atlantic all alone after #brexit isn’t it


gsgs comment- Hillary Clinton did not know Russia was going to beat the election over the head, and kidnap it.

The CIA and the FBI were not aware of Russia, operating their version of Oceans 11




We voted for Hillary, but something else happened...


New!

The EU has just passed a law that could end the problems with free movement which led to Brexit in the first place



The new rules voted this week in Strasbourg will prevent the exploitation of workers, bringing about equality between posted workers and their local co-workers. Now employers will be obliged to offer equal pay from the start of the posting, as well as the same allowances and reimbursement, travel expenses, accomodations.

During the 2016 EU referendum campaign, the issue of free movement was front and centre. Remember all those people saying how eastern European workers would come to the UK and work for less, meaning they couldn’t get jobs in their own towns? The EU has finally addressed this issue.


Considering the importance of free movement in the EU referendum campaign and the potential for constructively responding to concerns about labour exploitation in Leave constituencies, it has been frustrating to witness the Tory government attempt to undermine the deal reached by abstaining in the European Council. Thankfully their feet dragging has proved unsuccessful. Now all EU member states – the UK included – have two years to implement the new rules. Today, we call on the UK government to hastily implement the reforms into UK law so that British workers can benefit from these changes as soon as possible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-brexit-uk-labour-laws-migrant-workers-a8375836.html

gotsnowgotslush said:

...

New!

The EU has just passed a law that could end the problems with free movement which led to Brexit in the first place



The new rules voted this week in Strasbourg will prevent the exploitation of workers, bringing about equality between posted workers and their local co-workers. Now employers will be obliged to offer equal pay from the start of the posting, as well as the same allowances and reimbursement, travel expenses, accomodations.

During the 2016 EU referendum campaign, the issue of free movement was front and centre. Remember all those people saying how eastern European workers would come to the UK and work for less, meaning they couldn’t get jobs in their own towns? The EU has finally addressed this issue.


Considering the importance of free movement in the EU referendum campaign and the potential for constructively responding to concerns about labour exploitation in Leave constituencies, it has been frustrating to witness the Tory government attempt to undermine the deal reached by abstaining in the European Council. Thankfully their feet dragging has proved unsuccessful. Now all EU member states – the UK included – have two years to implement the new rules. Today, we call on the UK government to hastily implement the reforms into UK law so that British workers can benefit from these changes as soon as possible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-brexit-uk-labour-laws-migrant-workers-a8375836.html

Click to expand...

The EU HASN'T addressed the issue. The UK already offered equal pay to EU citizens working in the UK. That is why so many EU citizens, with high unemployment and low wages for those who could get employment, came to the UK to get a fair minimum wage for menial jobs. But recent improvements in the economy of their home countries and a poor exchange rate for Pounds to Euros has made the UK less attractive than working say Germany. President Macron's proposed changes to French employment laws might make working in France nearly as profitable as working in Germany (or the UK).

IF the EU had offered something like this change and a little bit more to David Cameron - there wouldn't have been the Brexit result. But the Brussels bureaucrats weren't prepared to offer the UK negotiators anything except 'free movement is a fundamental principle that can't be altered'.

Is there a Trump doppelgänger wrecking the Australian government ?

Australian security and counter-terrorism


Sweeping foreign interference and spying laws pass Senate


28 Jun 2018



Two bills rushed through amount to biggest overhaul of foreign interference laws in years

The original bill risked sweeping whistleblowers, aid workers, journalists and other not-for-profit workers into its net through its wide-sweeping definitions, but the government and Labor insist amendments to the legislation have accounted for those concerns.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...eign-interference-and-spying-laws-pass-senate

29 June 2018

Legislation restricting foreign political influence and people looking to “disrupt Australia’s democracy” has been rushed through Parliament last night, after Labor agreed to new espionage bills following sizeable amendments.

The ABC reports that the Coalition had urged Parliament to vote for the legislation in time for the July 28 Super Saturday byelections. While the Coalition allowed considerable amendments after initially looking to include charities, unions and arts bodies under the new foreign influence register, legal rights groups have criticised the new laws’ capacity to criminalise protests and communication of anti-government opinions. This came at the end of a day in which prosecution was brought against a government whistleblower.

June 28, 2018

Government looks to jail lawyer and former agent in staggering attack on free speech



In an extraordinary prosecution likely to have massive ramifications for free speech in Australia, the Coalition government wants to jail lawyer Bernard Collaery and former intelligence officer Witness K in relation to the revelation that ASIS illegally bugged East Timor's government.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/06/28/east-timor-bugging-scandal-government-looks-to-jail-collaery/



We need to talk about press freedom before it's too late | Lenore Taylor
-Lenore Taylor


theguardian.com — When laws are made they become the new normal. They are fiendishly hard to repeal. That’s why it’s urgent we take a closer look at how the government’s proposed espionage and foreign interference bill restricts press freedom. We should look again even if we accept the need to update espionage legislation to deal with current day threats, even though this bill is less disastrous for journalism than in its original version and is therefore generating less political heat.

https://muckrack.com/lenoretaylor


22 Jun 2018

The government says it does not intend to stymie reporting on national security matters. If it really didn’t, it could have exempted journalism from the provisions of the new laws, as demanded by almost every media organisation in the country.

Instead, in a deal with Labor, it announced softening amendments, the most significant being the ability for journalists to use a reasonable belief that a story was in “the public interest” as a defence against prosecution.
The attorney general, Christian Porter, reckons these laws have to be rushed through parliament next week because of the real threat of foreign interference in the “Super Saturday” byelections on 28 July, although he won’t exactly say who is trying to subvert them or how they might be going about it. That’s a pretty big claim from someone who is asking to be trusted to exercise these broad new powers with restraint.

Surely it would be better to scrutinise this bill properly and fully understand its ramifications, especially since it could undermine our ability to scrutinise so many other things for a very long time.


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...-talk-about-press-freedom-before-its-too-late

An apology from me, gsgs, to the UK, for having to endure having Trump present in your country.

Most of America does not want Trump in America.





The contrast between President Obama's visit to the UK, and Trump's visit to the UK, are as different as day and night.

President Obama, and Michelle Obama were trusted with the Queen's well being. I doubt that Trump and Mal-ania were trusted with anything.


Trump, America's Pigeon President, was predicted, to behave without manners, without consideration, and without respect, to everyone.

Suprisingly, it was someone from FOX TV that said it.
"He is going to defecate all over everything, squawk and fly away."

President Donald Trump was described by a Fox News political editor Chris Stirewalt as being like a seagull who will fly into NATO and “defecate over everything.”


CNN and NBC were locked out of asking questions, and FOX TV was favored. UK., people were surprised at how President Pigeon censors news coverage, when he is a guest of another country.

At Friday's press conference, Trump was unhappy with an NBC reporter who asked if the president's criticisms of U.S. allies helps Putin.

"That’s such dishonest reporting," Trump shot back. "Of course it happens to be NBC, which is possibly worse than CNN."


Nara Hodge
@Nara_Hodge
·
13h
Trump might be unchallenged in his own organisation but it doesn’t give him the right to outrageously attack and bully British PM on British soil. Would he have thought it ok to attack Putin on Russian soil? Or Macron on French soil



Nara Hodge 8h
@Nara_Hodge
Trump has changed his tune. He is all complimentary about Theresa May now. Back to being besties. According to him @Sun interview is fake news. It also looks like May has managed to convince him that UK will be able to do a trade deal with US after all. #TrumpUKVisit

9:18 AM - Jul 13, 2018


Mark Di Stefano
@MarkDiStef
·
6h
Trump has a “fake news” outburst at The Sun.

He was later corrected.

The Sun now comes out and says anyone seriously claiming he was calling them “fake news” is actually pushing... “fake news”.

Open the ancient sarcophagus. I want to climb in.

ark Di Stefano
@MarkDiStef
·
8h
Here it is. Donald Trump accused The Sun of "fake news" for not putting in the praise for her.

The Sun did.

You can see it.

On page 2.

Trump is lying


Nara Hodge
@Nara_Hodge
·
3h
I don’t like her anymore I love her!
She is terrific, tremendous, incredible She killed US trade deal!
Boris is a friend of mine It’s Fake News!
People in UK like me a lot I feel unwelcome in London because of #TrumpBabyBlimp
courtesy of the Telegraph


https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/ma...utm_term=.qrL66WO8b&__twitter_impression=true

https://www.indy100.com/article/tru...eresa-may-chequers-brexit-uk-protests-8445921

Lotsa fake news.

gotsnowgotslush said:

For a long time, the only non-American television news program we had, came from the BBC

Now, we have BBC America, Deutsche Welle, and NHK World Some stations near the Canada border carry French language news.

Todays news-

A young Malian migrant was on Monday offered French citizenship, after he scaled the facade of a Paris apartment block to save a 4-year-old child hanging from the fourth-floor balcony.

Mamoudou Gassama met with French President Emmanuel Macron two days after the dramatic rescue, where he was also given a medal for bravery, and offered a job with the Paris fire brigade.

"I have also invited him to apply for naturalization. Because France is a state of mind, and Mr Gassama has shown with determination that he has it!" Macron added.

Gassama has been living illegally in the French capital after arriving in September 2017

http://www.dw.com/en/malian-immigrant-hailed-for-heroic-rescue-offered-french-passport/a-43954994

Sadly, in the United States, we arrest people that obey the laws, and behave like good citizens, and deport them, without giving them their legal rights.


A member of some religious denomination is telling BBC's Laura Trevelyan that abortions have increased under the domination of Republicans. A religious figure is critical of the Republicans decision to withdraw funds for birth control, and health care for pregnant women.

The sticking point that he dies not approach, is who is punished- Women that are poor, or a members of the minority community, are discouraged from giving birth in America.

He does mention that denying food, shelter, and medical care to pregnant women causes them to choose to abort.

What he said about the productivity of Republicans and legislation-

"They don't do anything. They make promises, but nothing comes of it."


Trump caused undocumented immigrants to be prosecuted for illegal entry. This is the Trump White House policy. Separating children from parents is a tactic meant to cause fear. Anyone that can travel up to Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona is discouraged from entering the USA. Ivanka Trump's photo-op, of holding up her over-sized 2 year old, blond, white European son, was deliberate. It does not matter that Ivanka, Trump, and Trump's first wife had brown hair. They bleach their hair, or dye it yellow.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...weets-photo-backlash-border-separation-policy


Guest workers will get worker visas



WASHINGTON – The Department of Homeland Security said Friday it will issue 15,000 additional guest worker visas for 2018, facing an outcry from business owners who say they’re being hurt by country’s labor squeeze.

It was the second year in a row that DHS agreed to allocate an extra 15,000 guest worker visas, on top of the 66,000 annual cap established by Congress. Lawmakers have granted DHS the authority to exceed the cap.

(Who would put any faith in the employment rates from Trump's White House ?)


Trump is not an opponent of the guest worker system, and has hired seasonal foreign labor for his golf courses and resorts.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/25/dhs-plans-to-issue-15k-more-guest-worker-visas-this-year/

Click to expand...

^^^^^ our authorized fake news and views source

oggbashan said:

The EU HASN'T addressed the issue. The UK already offered equal pay to EU citizens working in the UK. That is why so many EU citizens, with high unemployment and low wages for those who could get employment, came to the UK to get a fair minimum wage for menial jobs. But recent improvements in the economy of their home countries and a poor exchange rate for Pounds to Euros has made the UK less attractive than working say Germany. President Macron's proposed changes to French employment laws might make working in France nearly as profitable as working in Germany (or the UK).

IF the EU had offered something like this change and a little bit more to David Cameron - there wouldn't have been the Brexit result. But the Brussels bureaucrats weren't prepared to offer the UK negotiators anything except 'free movement is a fundamental principle that can't be altered'.

Click to expand...

Yeah but not to the people who were "officially" working for a company based in their own country but contracted to work in Britain. For them, the rules of their home country applied so we had gangs of fruit pickers working for Bulgarian wages on the farms of East Anglia. I believe the new law stops that. The worker is now entitled to the appropriate salary paid in the country they actually work in. Where that country doesn't allow non-state deductions without written permission (like Britain) these cannot be made. So there can be no taking the gangers commission or deducting rent for overcrowded slum housing etc. All this and more has been and still is happening in the UK but neither the EU or the UK did anything about it.

Angie Brown
@Browna27

Liz Lato, 52, from, Dalgety Bay in Fife, said: “Trump is the thin edge of facism and we can’t afford to pander to him.” #trumpukvisit
People arriving outside the Scottish Parliament ahead of Edinburgh’s march against Trumps visit.

6:57 AM - Jul 14, 2018


And of course, people were outside the Trump Turnberry golf resort, where the president and Melania Trump are staying. People there just had a simple message.

*looking at picture of a woman holding up a sign- "Trump Is A Cunt"



Janey Godley
✔
@JaneyGodley
Am here #TrumpProtest #turnberry

3:44 AM - Jul 14, 2018


https://www.buzzfeed.com/hazelshear...ti-trump-signs?utm_term=.wwWEPra4J#.qsGQ0GKVm


https://www.buzzfeed.com/hazelshear...ti-trump-signs?utm_term=.wwWEPra4J#.qsGQ0GKVm

This is how members of the con artist regime reacted when the con artist once again made a fool of himself:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/07/12/donald-trump-body-language-nato-foreman-ac360-pkg-vpx.cnn

I feel badly, for the leaders of Democratic nations. They are forced to stifle the urge to give President Pigeon a tongue lashing, and let the living, breathing, Poop Emoji know what they think of him. But, everyone has learned the lesson of President Obama. If you give President Pigeon a taste of his own medicine, others will suffer.

President Pigeon will carry a grudge, and will go beyond his usual arsehole-ness, and deliberately cause evil things to happen.

President does not have a conscience, morals, or empathy. President Pigeon glories in shitting on everyone, as if they were statues. He gets his sadistic jollies, in forcing them to accept a reconciliation, while they are still covered in the poop he sprayed them with.



The last straw was President Pigeon shitting on a 92 year old woman. She endured the onslaught of pigeon poop with outward graciousness, politeness, and a consideration that was not returned. She took one for the team.

The people were out in the streets, telling the world what they think of President Pigeon. Queen Elizabeth counter-balanced the hostility that would be provoked, by keeping President Pigeon in his Own Private Idaho, where he could imagine he was more powerful than the Queen. He bullied a 92 year old woman.*golf clap*

*Queen Elizabeth voice*

"Give him what he wants, and he will find something else to poop on. He's a cunt, and he will do harm to the nation, and the people. But, the damage will be minimal. He won't be doing it out of personal revenge, to get back at me."
/end Queen Elizabeth voice


Dear remaining members of Monty Python,

Please create an animated cartoon of a Queen Elizabeth statue booting a gigantic wig-wearing pigeon into the sky, with her cute, little Queenly shoe. Follow that, with the giant foot squashing him flat.

Thanks,
gsgs


He's shit, and he proved himself to be shit, on his latest excursion to shit on other nations, and kiss Putin's arse.

JUL. 18, 2018

Queen Elizabeth is prohibited from taking direct action to protect the people of the UK. That does not stop her from letting those responsible for the well being and safety of people, knowing of her feelings, thoughts, and attitude.

Queen Elizabeth Wore the Brooch the Obamas Gifted Her for Trump’s Visit
Coincidence?

I think not

-INAE OHJUL

Thanks to expert observers of the royal family’s wardrobe and accessories, speculation currently abounds over whether the queen intentionally chose to wear a brooch that was given to her by the Obamas during their state visit back in 2011 in order to quietly knock her guest of honor during his recent visit to Great Britain.


On the second day of Trump’s visit, the same expert eyes noticed the queen wearing another brooch gifted to her by Canada, a country whose leader Trump has criticized and whose trade relationship with the United States he has repeatedly attacked.


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/07/queen-elizabeth-trump-obama-brooch-visit/

When she met him, she also was dressed in blue. Blue. Blue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Trump_and_Scotland

Here's a handy recap and update on Trump's Scottish golf courses.

More than 100 seats that backed Brexit now want to remain in EU

12 Aug 2018

Major new analysis shows most constituencies now have majority who want to Remain


More than 100 Westminster constituencies that voted to leave the EU have now switched their support to Remain, according to a stark new analysis seen by the Observer.


The analysis, one of the most comprehensive assessments of Brexit sentiment since the referendum, suggests the shift has been driven by doubts among Labour voters who backed Leave.




The 632 seats in England, Scotland and Wales were examined for the study. It found that 112 had switched from Leave to Remain. The new analysis suggests there are now 341 seats with majority Remain support, up from 229 seats at the referendum.


"The rate of change appears to be quickening as the realities of what Brexit would mean become more apparent and the fears of a no-deal Brexit grow, especially for Labour Leave voters who initially believed that leaving the EU would improve their economic prospects. Brexit is failing these voters and the country as a whole. Politicians need to understand that public opinion has changed.”

-Nick Lowles

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain

gotsnowgotslush said:

More than 100 seats that backed Brexit now want to remain in EU...

Click to expand...

The Guardian would say that, wouldn't they?

As the US President would say - Fake News.

New Leak Reveals The Government's "No Deal" Brexit Papers Will Cover 84 Areas Of British Life

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence...sh-life-the-uk?utm_term=.yhpMp9gm2#.mk8OM312R

"Fears about gridlock at customs borders such as Dover have already been widely aired, but the officials are concerned that people will have given far less thought to, for example, whether they’ll be able to legally drive in the EU with a UK driving license or to transport their dogs, cats and ferrets without having them quarantined, if Britain doesn’t secure an exit deal."

gotsnowgotslush said:

New Leak Reveals The Government's "No Deal" Brexit Papers Will Cover 84 Areas Of British Life

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence...sh-life-the-uk?utm_term=.yhpMp9gm2#.mk8OM312R

"Fears about gridlock at customs borders such as Dover have already been widely aired, but the officials are concerned that people will have given far less thought to, for example, whether they’ll be able to legally drive in the EU with a UK driving license or to transport their dogs, cats and ferrets without having them quarantined, if Britain doesn’t secure an exit deal."

Click to expand...

Some of that is true and some isn't. The movement of pets is already controlled to prevent the spread of Rabies. You can transport them by getting a "Pet Passport" but that is not a simple process. There will be little change there.

The queues at Dover are a given. The ports and the Channel tunnel can barely cope as it is. Any delay will cause tailbacks. The technology that Brexiteers claim will prevent this is still eight years away. In the meantime, we will have to revert to T notices which although faster than a full customs check, still takes more time than no check at all.

UK driving licences were valid in Europe before we joined the EU and there is no reason to treat British drivers any differently than any other non-EU driver. The Norwegians, Swiss, and Turks can all drive on their own countries licences for a limited time.

No deal will necessitate a hard border in Northern Ireland which will damage Ireland's economy as well as the British.

The referendum campaigns were littered with lies throughout. Both sides sought to frighten the British people into going one way or the other. The leave side didn't expect to win and as such had no idea what to do once they did. They object strongly to their opposition's refusal to give in despite saying before the vote that they wouldn't consider anything less than 60/40 to be conclusive. The chaos continues.

The one thing most people are agreed upon is that a "No Deal" situation is in no one's interest.

DeYaKen said:

...

The queues at Dover are a given. The ports and the Channel tunnel can barely cope as it is. Any delay will cause tailbacks. The technology that Brexiteers claim will prevent this is still eight years away. In the meantime, we will have to revert to T notices which although faster than a full customs check, still takes more time than no check at all.

Click to expand...

The disused Manston Airport on the Isle of Thanet has been prepared to be a truck park in the event of a No-Deal, or chaos after a limited deal. Ports in Belgium and Holland are prepared to take EU-UK traffic if Calais gets congested. Ships can easily be diverted. The Channel Tunnel can't.

DeYaKen said:

No deal will necessitate a hard border in Northern Ireland which will damage Ireland's economy as well as the British.

Click to expand...

Or cross-border smuggling will return to avoid some EU tariffs or UK tariffs if they don't match. Those either side of the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland have shown creativity in the past exploiting taxation and subsidy differences. It used to be possible to make considerable amounts of money shipping live pigs into and out of Northern Ireland. Eventually, instead of moving the real live pigs, the farmers on either side of the border moved the paperwork with virtual pigs, leaving the real pigs peacefully at home. One farmer was caught out because he exported a thousand more virtual pigs than he actually had.

If there is money to be made from chaos, both parts of Ireland will exploit it, as will people elsewhere in the UK and EU.

oggbashan said:

The disused Manston Airport on the Isle of Thanet has been prepared to be a truck park in the event of a No-Deal, or chaos after a limited deal. Ports in Belgium and Holland are prepared to take EU-UK traffic if Calais gets congested. Ships can easily be diverted. The Channel Tunnel can't.

Click to expand...

Manston may have a two-mile long runway but the vast majority of the land is too soft to take HGVs If there are any disputes in Calais, Dunkirk, Boulogne or others the use eleven miles of the M20 for operation stack. How are they going to fit the lorries that occupy eleven miles of a 5 lane (half of it is 6 lanes and half is 4 lanes) into two miles of runway plus a few ancillary roads? Manston is 12 miles from Dover and the roads are single carriageway so the congestion would be even greater.

Yes, ships can be diverted but there is a reason why they are not. The ports have to have berthing facilities big enough to take the ships. The super ferries that ply their trade across the channel are far too big to use facilities in Ramsgate, Folkestone, Dunkirk, or Boulogne. That's the reason the French fisherman can bring things to a standstill.

If the Leave campaign had done their homework there is a more viable option than Manston. Taking over the vacant parts of the Pfizer village and demolishing the buildings would give them hard surface storage nearer to Dover but there would be a real cost to that and it would still have the access problems.

The thought of all those extra trucks going down Jubilee way is laughable.

Manston is better than a yet-to-be-built truck park off the M20. It isn't THE solution but it is more than nothing.

The Pfizer site is gradually, as Discovery Park, being occupied again with a number of varied companies. The car parking areas aren't strong enough to take heavy trucks but there are barely used truck parks close by at Richborough.

All these won't replace Operation Stack but might cope with a smaller delay.

Dover has smaller ships that carry freight vehicles as well as the super ferries. More freight is being ferried from Thamesport. There is a surplus of older ferry ships that could be used from Sheerness, Harwich, Ramsgate and possibly Folkestone but heavy vehicle access to Folkestone Harbour by road is problematic.

I hope we don't get to a no deal situation but the EU doesn't appear to have moved a millimetre since they sent David Cameron away with nothing.

oggbashan said:

Manston is better than a yet-to-be-built truck park off the M20. It isn't THE solution but it is more than nothing.

The Pfizer site is gradually, as Discovery Park, being occupied again with a number of varied companies. The car parking areas aren't strong enough to take heavy trucks but there are barely used truck parks close by at Richborough.

All these won't replace Operation Stack but might cope with a smaller delay.

Dover has smaller ships that carry freight vehicles as well as the super ferries. More freight is being ferried from Thamesport. There is a surplus of older ferry ships that could be used from Sheerness, Harwich, Ramsgate and possibly Folkestone but heavy vehicle access to Folkestone Harbour by road is problematic.

I hope we don't get to a no deal situation but the EU doesn't appear to have moved a millimetre since they sent David Cameron away with nothing.

Click to expand...

Strange that you think that the tarmac carparks of The Pfizer village are less likely to support the forty ton trucks than the grass of Manston

Ramsgate was abandoned as a freight port many years ago when the ferries were smaller. The fact is that unless you build a new access road under the cliffs at Pegwell You can't get any volume of forty tonners through to the port. It would also need massive investment to bring Roll on Roll of traffic back. Sally line was the last one and they were constantly fighting the council because of the damage being done to the one access road to the harbour. Having converted the port so that it mainly serves the leisure industry they are hardly likely to scrap all of that so they can run forty ton lorries through the town. Especially when there is so little benefit to the town financially.

Sheerness is a possibility especially now they have the new bridge but again it would need investment and take time. The RO-RO facilities were never that good and were scrapped after the last DFDS ferry went out.

The system we have now evolved to compete with the channel tunnel if you are going to start using smaller ferries it will cost more money which will force up prices of both incoming and outgoing goods. The first will push up prices at home (something we were assured wouldn't happen) and the second will increase the cost of our goods in Europe, threatening jobs in the UK (but that's all scare tactics so we can pretend it's not real.)

the EU doesn't appear to have moved a millimetre since they sent David Cameron away with nothing.

Click to expand...

This can't be true. Weren't we constantly told "They need us more than we need them"?