"Duck Dynasty" star banned from show for anti-gay comments

julybaby04 said:

The Constitution sets the extent to which the Federal Government should be involved. What the government does now, for the most part, is not Constitutional (as far as dealing with concerns such as education and welfare and such).

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Not really. It gives a list of specific things the government can't do with the obvious implication that it can do anything it's not specifically prohibited from doing.


Fortunately, the Constitution was written in the Founding Father's world and not yours.[/QUOTE]

Not fortunate at all.

julybaby04 said:

There are very good reasons to limit the scope of the government. Education is a superb one. Common Core is an EXCELLENT example of having the Federal Government involved in education....they are completely incapable of doing this (Head Start is another example of complete failure of the government to establish a program to "educate" people......it only becomes a quagmire of paperwork and teaching to tests.....has NOTHING to do with actually taking the time to educate children).

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Common Core is an excellent example of the Fed finally stepping up and doing it's job. You think it's a coincidence we aren't even in the top ten (I want to say 37th place but I'm not in the mood to google that besides it varies on math and science) in education? We suck and a large part of that is our federal government hasn't even set standards.

If you're talking about teaching tests what you mean is No Child Left Behind. Head STart is another excellent program and one we should strive to provide for all children in this country. We are not going to step back up until the Feds take farther control.

As far as limiting the government sure, but to what degree and what ends? Limited for the sake of limited is at best silly.

julybaby04 said:

Less intrusive government is ALWAYS a good thing.....but even better is a government which abides by the Constitution on which it was established!

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No, less intrusive (whatever that means) government is not always a good thing. A government that abides by the Constitution it was established on. . .good god you're dumb. That should either be founding documents or . .. nevermind.

That's all good and well. The documents should probably be re written every thirty to fifty years so we don't have such ignorance floating around as we do in ours.

julybaby04 said:

Incorrect..... General Welfare does not mean "welfare" as most know it today......for example....

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^^^Revisionism at its finest, unworthy of further comment.

julybaby04 said:

....and as to your last statement.....if God grants answers to prayers that I pray for others, including yourself, and I am blessed with that 3-fold....I will be very very blessed indeed..... so thank you for your prayers/wishes in that respect!

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Someone posted something on Facebook this morning that made me immediately think of you. A simple phrase..."You Don't Need A Reason To Help People". I think that sums up the difference between a true Christian and a lip-service Christian such as yourself. You seem to always require a reason or justification to help serve your fellow man.

Sean Renaud said:

That said I'm not the capitalist that Bot is. . .well lassiez-faire capitalist that Bot is. I do think the government has a role to play in the economy and an important one at that. It always has and always will and currently we have a lot of people trying to get away from that, trying to prove we don't need government. Which is pure insanity.

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To be fair to me, at least I understand and acknowledge the reality of my views. In order to maintain the 1st world as we know it, I agree with you that the economy needs guidance/regulation. The flock needs a shepherd so to speak or it would come flying apart.

Most Americans couldn't handle being a capitalist nation much less one of free people. Shit most Americans don't know what the fuck freedom actually looks like as the last Americans who had a god damn clue were


And life back then was fucking brutal....so brutal we decided to start writing laws to change shit, and it worked to make things nicer.

I fully admit my position is one born of more than a couple years spent in such 3rd world shit holes thinking about how easy it would be to come right back and take over an area. Totally going all Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now but I knew it would be a short brutal life and that's saying the US didn't send someone to let the air out of me the same day they found out what was happening. And had I been an orphan....I would have tried. But I have too many loved ones so I came back. Now I'm flip flopping around in black/grey/white markets as I move around from state to state. Now THAT has certainly given me an interesting perspective on free vs regulated markets in the US.

And from the bidnizz perspective....man regulation fucking SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!!!! Even when you're trying to do it right as rain here comes the gov. "Sir we don't care if your way is better and proofed by every possible quantifiable measure, it's not code....do it to code or we will shut you down. "

Bunch of innovation nay saying fucks....assholes. *shakes fist at USDA*


But there is a method to that madness, keeps people from getting some fucked up food from some hairball idea some farmer came up with to grow food. If it's that good submit the ideas for study/approval. THEN we can do it your way.

That's lovely but.....

RobDownSouth said:

^^^Revisionism at its finest, unworthy of further comment.



Someone posted something on Facebook this morning that made me immediately think of you. A simple phrase..."You Don't Need A Reason To Help People". I think that sums up the difference between a true Christian and a lip-service Christian such as yourself. You seem to always require a reason or justification to help serve your fellow man.

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Clearly your kind wants to make welfare a career

True enough Bot. This next part is not directed at you by the by.

Sean Renaud said:

Not really. It gives a list of specific things the government can't do with the obvious implication that it can do anything it's not specifically prohibited from doing.


Fortunately, the Constitution was written in the Founding Father's world and not yours.

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Not fortunate at all.



Common Core is an excellent example of the Fed finally stepping up and doing it's job. You think it's a coincidence we aren't even in the top ten (I want to say 37th place but I'm not in the mood to google that besides it varies on math and science) in education? We suck and a large part of that is our federal government hasn't even set standards.

If you're talking about teaching tests what you mean is No Child Left Behind. Head STart is another excellent program and one we should strive to provide for all children in this country. We are not going to step back up until the Feds take farther control.

As far as limiting the government sure, but to what degree and what ends? Limited for the sake of limited is at best silly.



No, less intrusive (whatever that means) government is not always a good thing. A government that abides by the Constitution it was established on. . .good god you're dumb. That should either be founding documents or . .. nevermind.

That's all good and well. The documents should probably be re written every thirty to fifty years so we don't have such ignorance floating around as we do in ours.[/QUOTE]

Yes, No Child Left Behind...sorry about that...

But, unless you have children in the current school system then perhaps you dont know the implications of Common Core.

Common Core?

How about some Common Ground?

FFS.

Listen to this. Best band that never made it huge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Dt75MVtqw

RobDownSouth said:

Someone posted something on Facebook this morning that made me immediately think of you. A simple phrase..."You Don't Need A Reason To Help People". I think that sums up the difference between a true Christian and a lip-service Christian such as yourself. You seem to always require a reason or justification to help serve your fellow man.

Click to expand...

This is the beauty of the internet. People truly do not know other people. You are very welcome to believe what you wish about me, I could not influence that in any way as you have already "decided" who I am, in your opinion.

I am thankful that your opinion of me in no way makes it true. I do hope you find peace in this upcoming New Year and that you truly do not have to spend your time with worries about me. I can tell you with 100% certainty that my days and thoughts are not in the least bothered by thoughts of who you think I am.

I do pray for you, as well as all I have come in contact with on here. That will always continue and my prayers are for blessings upon you all as well as peace granted to you by God. (I also pray for softened hearts, but I am sure that will offend most here....)

julybaby04 said:

Less intrusive government is ALWAYS a good thing.....but even better is a government which abides by the Constitution on which it was established!

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Unless it violates the 14th amendment (denying people equal treatment under the law based on their sexual status) for reasons that violate the 1st amendment (religion is the only reason you have for denying other people the freedom to choose their lifestyle and is therefore legally invalid as it gets.) then it's totally ok to have a more intrusive all powerful government right JB??

Unless it's those fucking hippies in most of the country who voted and are continuing to vote the war on drugs the fuck out of their state when the feds ignored them, then it's totally ok to send the federal gestapo in after them right JB??

Unless it's hookers in NV...then it's totally righteous to send the feds in!! Right JB? Those women are too stupid to decide how they want to live right?? And your faith in your religion is all the justification you need isn't it??

julybaby04 said:

Yes, No Child Left Behind...sorry about that...

But, unless you have children in the current school system then perhaps you dont know the implications of Common Core.

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No child left behind had it's heart in the right place though, it made two enormous mistakes. The first was thinking you should punish schools for not living up to standards. Makes perfect sense of course except taking away money from someone who isn't performing up to your stanards. . .yeah bad plan. The second was requiring teachers to have a degree in the subject they are teaching. Sounds like common sense and it's not bad for the core classes but lots of things (granted many of these classes were on the way out already) like shop don't actually have degrees.

I don't have kids, I know plenty of teachers who are more than happy to talk my ear off about the school system and about Common Core. I've yet to hear any major complaints about Common Core from actual educators other than it expects too much too soon from students. And that in addition since most parents aren't highly educated the kids can't get help with their homework because their parents don't understand the information any better than they do.

Regardless even if you have some particular gripe with Common Core itself that's not an excuse for kids (military brats being the biggest culprits of this) not graduating on time because they moved from a school with X criteria to a school with Y criteria. One country, one standard. It's common fucking sense. Same goes for colleges, a 4.0 GPA should mean the same thing in Alabama as it does in Massachusetts.

BotanyBoy said:

Unless it violates the 14th amendment (denying people equal treatment under the law based on their sexual status) for reasons that violate the 1st amendment (religion is the only reason you have for denying other people the freedom to choose their lifestyle and is therefore legally invalid as it gets.) then it's totally ok to have a more intrusive all powerful government right JB??

Unless it's those fucking hippies in most of the country who voted and are continuing to vote the war on drugs the fuck out of their state when the feds ignored them, then it's totally ok to send the federal gestapo in after them right JB??

Unless it's hookers in NV...then it's totally righteous to send the feds in!! Right JB? Those women are too stupid to decide how they want to live right?? And your faith in your religion is all the justification you need isn't it??

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Less intrusive government is always a good thing. When making wanting to make a law, a program, etc.....they should be looking to the Constitution first.

julybaby04 said:

Less intrusive government is always a good thing. When making wanting to make a law, a program, etc.....they should be looking to the Constitution first.

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Do you not understand what "?" at the end of a sentence means there home skool??

Unless it violates the 14th amendment (denying people equal treatment under the law based on their sexual status) for reasons that violate the 1st amendment (religion is the only reason you have for denying other people the freedom to choose their lifestyle and is therefore legally invalid as it gets.) then it's totally ok to have a more intrusive all powerful government right JB??

Unless it's those fucking hippies in most of the country who voted and are continuing to vote the war on drugs the fuck out of their state when the feds ignored them, then it's totally ok to send the federal gestapo in after them right JB??

Unless it's hookers in NV...then it's totally righteous to send the feds in!! Right JB? Those women are too stupid to decide how they want to live right?? And your faith in your religion is all the justification you need isn't it??

Sean Renaud said:

No child left behind had it's heart in the right place though, it made two enormous mistakes. The first was thinking you should punish schools for not living up to standards. Makes perfect sense of course except taking away money from someone who isn't performing up to your stanards. . .yeah bad plan. The second was requiring teachers to have a degree in the subject they are teaching. Sounds like common sense and it's not bad for the core classes but lots of things (granted many of these classes were on the way out already) like shop don't actually have degrees.

I don't have kids, I know plenty of teachers who are more than happy to talk my ear off about the school system and about Common Core. I've yet to hear any major complaints about Common Core from actual educators other than it expects too much too soon from students. And that in addition since most parents aren't highly educated the kids can't get help with their homework because their parents don't understand the information any better than they do.

Regardless even if you have some particular gripe with Common Core itself that's not an excuse for kids (military brats being the biggest culprits of this) not graduating on time because they moved from a school with X criteria to a school with Y criteria. One country, one standard. It's common fucking sense. Same goes for colleges, a 4.0 GPA should mean the same thing in Alabama as it does in Massachusetts.

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Well, I do have children involved in this mess.

Of course, on the "outside" all programs "seem" like a good idea. The problem start when individuals become involved (people, local school boards, states, etc). Each of these have their own "ideas" of how to interpret the new programs.

The standards, of which you speak, are expected to reduce the test scores by 30% for the first few years (I have heard up to around 10). This is not because the things the students will be learning are better/harder/etc....it is because they do not make sense.

Trying to teach a 2nd grader how to do math problems dealing with abstract math like Algebra, is not going to help them at all. There are systematic ways of teaching, especially math, that build upon each other. These ideas only work when the children are capable (as they grow) to understand these concepts. Frustrating the children is not teaching. The standards are meant to confuse.

As far as English...removing half of the important literary works that have been studied for decades in favor of non-fiction informational texts (which are left completely up to what each teacher decides) is not only detrimental to the children learning to appreciate literature, but opens the door to the teacher's agenda, whatever that may be.

As I said, I have children involved in this right now. There is nothing the Federal Government is involved in with education that is helpful. It is always a mess and delivers the complete opposite outcome that was intended.

You are completely free to believe the "educators" you have spoken with. I am sure, from their paid perspective, they are completely for it. However, there are just as many "educators" I have personally spoken with who absolutely hate this and know it will destroy an entire generation of students.

As you do not have any children, perhaps losing a generation to a "new government program" is not a big issue for you. But having children, I and many like me refuse to sacrifice our children for the sake of becoming "common".

julybaby04 said:

Well, I do have children involved in this mess.

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Sorry, I'll trust the educators over the parents any day. Teachers do this for a living and get to see the results over a large spectrum, parents only see their own children.

julybaby04 said:

Of course, on the "outside" all programs "seem" like a good idea. The problem start when individuals become involved (people, local school boards, states, etc). Each of these have their own "ideas" of how to interpret the new programs.

Click to expand...

If there are different interpretations you didn't legislate hard enough. When I give you a program there should be only a single interpretation. MINE. (and vice versa) So that's just matter of people not being specific enough. Which is exactly what happened with large parts of No Child Left Behind. I imagine when they said "No teacher can teach a subject they don't have a degree in" that they didn't mean "you can't have driver's ed in school because there is no such animal as a degree in driving" Likewise I assume they didn't mean to kill keyboarding (which mostly got relabled intro to computers and involves learning how to google but still they had to find a work around. That wasn't the plan. So go back and fix the issues.

Imagine how much better off we'd be if Bush had had the wisdom to say "We won't know what's in NCLB until we pass it, lets fix the problems as they come." because the idea isn't wrong, the execution however leaves lots to be desired.

julybaby04 said:

The standards, of which you speak, are expected to reduce the test scores by 30% for the first few years (I have heard up to around 10). This is not because the things the students will be learning are better/harder/etc....it is because they do not make sense.

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I assume you have citation for these expectations? I've not heard anything about test scores going down. I've heard lots about teaching for the test producing children who can't think for themselves (something Common Core aims to address) and instead can just regurgitate knowledge they don't fully understand. I'm not a huge fan of standardized tests, I accept they are a necessity but I'm not a huge fan.

However they come from your school of thought. Schools should be run like a business, we need a metric to discover which teachers are good and which are bad and fire the bad ones! Which sounds great but nobody has found a better system than this and this clearly is a piss poor plan.

julybaby04 said:

Trying to teach a 2nd grader how to do math problems dealing with abstract math like Algebra, is not going to help them at all. There are systematic ways of teaching, especially math, that build upon each other. These ideas only work when the children are capable (as they grow) to understand these concepts. Frustrating the children is not teaching. The standards are meant to confuse.

Click to expand...

These standards are not meant to confuse. You have to be a special kind of crazy to think we are intentionally making tests the kids can't pass. Clearly kids around the world are grasping this material younger and more firmly than Americans. Yes there is an order to teaching however. I've never understood nor had anybody explain why teaching kids "algebra" from day one isn't a plan though.

julybaby04 said:

As far as English...removing half of the important literary works that have been studied for decades in favor of non-fiction informational texts (which are left completely up to what each teacher decides) is not only detrimental to the children learning to appreciate literature, but opens the door to the teacher's agenda, whatever that may be.

Click to expand...

Removing half the important literary works? I haven't seen a whole lot of book removal in any of the Common Core stuff that I've read but I'll go ask one of my teacher buddies. The only thing I've heard is they are trying to get books back in that have been cut for years. However most classic literature is chosen for silly reasons.

That being said they are probably the only books we could get people to agree on, I don't expect to get people to put down Frankenstien and replace it with Jurrassic Park even though it's got the same moral and is a better written story by a more talented author.

However you're making my point JB. One nation, one standard. Teacher's don't get to put their "agenda" in whatever it might be if the standard is set for them and they get fired for deviating from it. Simple solution.

julybaby04 said:

As I said, I have children involved in this right now. There is nothing the Federal Government is involved in with education that is helpful. It is always a mess and delivers the complete opposite outcome that was intended.

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That's because the Federal Government is barely involved. It mostly doles out money but not standards. Our standards are so lax that Texas actually has a lot of control over our text books. Besides you just made the opposite point above.

julybaby04 said:

You are completely free to believe the "educators" you have spoken with. I am sure, from their paid perspective, they are completely for it. However, there are just as many "educators" I have personally spoken with who absolutely hate this and know it will destroy an entire generation of students.

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That's fine.

julybaby04 said:

As you do not have any children, perhaps losing a generation to a "new government program" is not a big issue for you. But having children, I and many like me refuse to sacrifice our children for the sake of becoming "common".

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Well that's not a choice you get fortunately. We are going to move ahead with this. Your options are simple. Help or get trampled. I don't have kids but I still have to live in the country with them. If/when they are too ignorant to compete with kids from Europe and Asia for jobs and those jobs go over seas that's ultimately money out of MY pocket because the little fucks won't be able to afford my product.

It would be nice to be an island, but I'm not. So I have to make sure you're doing what's best for you because when you don't my life sucks. So you can thank me on the otherside when your kids are actually competitive with foreigners and we start to rebuild this nation.

16 pages of dumbfuckery based on stupidity.

julybaby04 said:

Well, I do have children involved in this mess.

Of course, on the "outside" all programs "seem" like a good idea. The problem start when individuals become involved (people, local school boards, states, etc). Each of these have their own "ideas" of how to interpret the new programs.

The standards, of which you speak, are expected to reduce the test scores by 30% for the first few years (I have heard up to around 10). This is not because the things the students will be learning are better/harder/etc....it is because they do not make sense.

Trying to teach a 2nd grader how to do math problems dealing with abstract math like Algebra, is not going to help them at all. There are systematic ways of teaching, especially math, that build upon each other. These ideas only work when the children are capable (as they grow) to understand these concepts. Frustrating the children is not teaching. The standards are meant to confuse.

As far as English...removing half of the important literary works that have been studied for decades in favor of non-fiction informational texts (which are left completely up to what each teacher decides) is not only detrimental to the children learning to appreciate literature, but opens the door to the teacher's agenda, whatever that may be.

As I said, I have children involved in this right now. There is nothing the Federal Government is involved in with education that is helpful. It is always a mess and delivers the complete opposite outcome that was intended.

You are completely free to believe the "educators" you have spoken with. I am sure, from their paid perspective, they are completely for it. However, there are just as many "educators" I have personally spoken with who absolutely hate this and know it will destroy an entire generation of students.

As you do not have any children, perhaps losing a generation to a "new government program" is not a big issue for you. But having children, I and many like me refuse to sacrifice our children for the sake of becoming "common".

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You LITERALLY, don't have the foggiest idea of what you're talking about.

1. Test will drop because the test itself will be harder. For example, very few, if any multiple choice questions. That means students won't be able to look at potential answers and work their way backwards.

2. When did YOU decide what were the important works of literature? More importantly, when does one read fiction once they get out into the workforce? The truth is that there are some people out there who are upset that kids just won't be reading fiction from white people.

3. If an educator doesn't like CC they're honest and an expert, but if they do like CC they're being paid for it? And you know they're being compensated how exactly?

Laurel said:

What does that even mean?

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you're talking to a guy that once described the act of making fun of sarah palin for being stupid as an act of rape. just a little perspective for you.

pointless said:

you're talking to a guy that once described the act of making fun of sarah palin for being stupid as an act of rape. just a little perspective for you.

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Oh wow, I'd forgotten completely about that little episode. Bert's credibility has really taken quite a hit in the past few years.....not that he had that much to begin with.

SgtSpiderMan said:

You LITERALLY, don't have the foggiest idea of what you're talking about.

1. Test will drop because the test itself will be harder. For example, very few, if any multiple choice questions. That means students won't be able to look at potential answers and work their way backwards.

2. When did YOU decide what were the important works of literature? More importantly, when does one read fiction once they get out into the workforce? The truth is that there are some people out there who are upset that kids just won't be reading fiction from white people.

3. If an educator doesn't like CC they're honest and an expert, but if they do like CC they're being paid for it? And you know they're being compensated how exactly?

Click to expand...

Let me preface this with this information..... I have been involved in the fight against Common Core for most of this year, after I became aware of it. I have met (yes, actually in person met) with legislative people and educational people from my state. I have had meetings with them on this topic.

Yes, some like the idea, of course. There are many who do not. There are legislative people (Senators and House of Rep) in my state who feel the government required them to sign on to something simply for the ability to apply for Race To The Top funding. The agreement to accept the Common Core Standards was required a full 5 months before the standards were even written (Sound familiar....."have to pass it to find out what is in it"?).......

The states are always wanting to improve educational standards for their students...and there is nothing wrong with that. However, a National set of standards that emphasizes the "common" and not excellence is not a good set of standards.

As far as the English standards (and I did notice you did not touch the subject of the math standards)....I did not nor would I decide what is considered good works of Literary Work. However, allowing agenda based (chosen by each teacher) into classrooms can be dangerous (especially if parents are not involved in their children's schools or education).

For example.....as everyone is VERY aware, the thought of having anything "Christian" related in schools is a big no-no. Schools have been sued over it, such as prayer......and I can't imagine they would allow Bibles in school. My 10th grader spent 2 weeks studying the Koran in October. I was very involved in this as the teacher agreed to send me the assignments before hand. When asked if the same amount of time was to be spent on other religious texts, her response was yes to Buddhism, yes to other Eastern religions....no to the Bible. (It was her decision and her choice to teach these things.....in his English Class). I spoke to the Superintendent about this, the teacher, the principal, etc. I did manage to have her send a letter out to all parents of children in her classes to let them know about this. Some parents requested other assignments. I allowed my son in so that we would know exactly what was being taught within the classroom. Of course, it was interesting that the passages quoted from the Koran were actually paraphrased and were not accurate to the Koran.....but, of course, that would not have fit with what she was teaching.

Anyway, I have spent much time in my efforts to have my state roll this back. Not only is Common Core going to be very bad for the kids, but the testing is an issue as well.

If people have fear of government intrusion (or it knowing too much, etc) the 900 data points that will be collected by the SBAC should concern people. My children had the "pre test"....actual test will be in the Spring. The questions on the math side were not ....give me the correct answer......they were "on a scale from 1-10 (the sliding scale was on the screen) for the question of 4+6+12 = ? what is your feeling about how you came to your answer?" ...with 1 being "I guessed" to "10 being I thought about how in real life this might help me". There was no answer for the actual answer....they did not care. This was ONE example.

I have so many examples....so many documented and copied directly from my children's workbooks and hardback books. People are free to feel as they want.....but this is something I am VERY involved in and will fight until it is repealed!

Bert Notorius said:

i have to chuckle when the left tries to defend a country music act.

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like lee hazelwood?

Sean Renaud said:

Sorry, I'll trust the educators over the parents any day. Teachers do this for a living and get to see the results over a large spectrum, parents only see their own children.



If there are different interpretations you didn't legislate hard enough. When I give you a program there should be only a single interpretation. MINE. (and vice versa) So that's just matter of people not being specific enough. Which is exactly what happened with large parts of No Child Left Behind. I imagine when they said "No teacher can teach a subject they don't have a degree in" that they didn't mean "you can't have driver's ed in school because there is no such animal as a degree in driving" Likewise I assume they didn't mean to kill keyboarding (which mostly got relabled intro to computers and involves learning how to google but still they had to find a work around. That wasn't the plan. So go back and fix the issues.

Imagine how much better off we'd be if Bush had had the wisdom to say "We won't know what's in NCLB until we pass it, lets fix the problems as they come." because the idea isn't wrong, the execution however leaves lots to be desired.



I assume you have citation for these expectations? I've not heard anything about test scores going down. I've heard lots about teaching for the test producing children who can't think for themselves (something Common Core aims to address) and instead can just regurgitate knowledge they don't fully understand. I'm not a huge fan of standardized tests, I accept they are a necessity but I'm not a huge fan.

However they come from your school of thought. Schools should be run like a business, we need a metric to discover which teachers are good and which are bad and fire the bad ones! Which sounds great but nobody has found a better system than this and this clearly is a piss poor plan.



These standards are not meant to confuse. You have to be a special kind of crazy to think we are intentionally making tests the kids can't pass. Clearly kids around the world are grasping this material younger and more firmly than Americans. Yes there is an order to teaching however. I've never understood nor had anybody explain why teaching kids "algebra" from day one isn't a plan though.



Removing half the important literary works? I haven't seen a whole lot of book removal in any of the Common Core stuff that I've read but I'll go ask one of my teacher buddies. The only thing I've heard is they are trying to get books back in that have been cut for years. However most classic literature is chosen for silly reasons.

That being said they are probably the only books we could get people to agree on, I don't expect to get people to put down Frankenstien and replace it with Jurrassic Park even though it's got the same moral and is a better written story by a more talented author.

However you're making my point JB. One nation, one standard. Teacher's don't get to put their "agenda" in whatever it might be if the standard is set for them and they get fired for deviating from it. Simple solution.



That's because the Federal Government is barely involved. It mostly doles out money but not standards. Our standards are so lax that Texas actually has a lot of control over our text books. Besides you just made the opposite point above.



That's fine.



Well that's not a choice you get fortunately. We are going to move ahead with this. Your options are simple. Help or get trampled. I don't have kids but I still have to live in the country with them. If/when they are too ignorant to compete with kids from Europe and Asia for jobs and those jobs go over seas that's ultimately money out of MY pocket because the little fucks won't be able to afford my product.

It would be nice to be an island, but I'm not. So I have to make sure you're doing what's best for you because when you don't my life sucks. So you can thank me on the otherside when your kids are actually competitive with foreigners and we start to rebuild this nation.

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First....Texas did not adopt Common Core so they are free to do as they wish. Only 45 states did, and some are pushing back.

As for not having a choice....that is completely incorrect. Parents are perfectly free to pull their children from public schools and either put them in private schools that do not adhere to Common Core or homeschool them. There are ALWAYS choices if people look hard enough.

julybaby04 said:

First....Texas did not adopt Common Core so they are free to do as they wish. Only 45 states did, and some are pushing back.

As for not having a choice....that is completely incorrect. Parents are perfectly free to pull their children from public schools and either put them in private schools that do not adhere to Common Core or homeschool them. There are ALWAYS choices if people look hard enough.

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only 45 of 50?

julybaby04 said:

Let me preface this with this information..... I have been involved in the fight against Common Core for most of this year, after I became aware of it. I have met (yes, actually in person met) with legislative people and educational people from my state. I have had meetings with them on this topic.

Yes, some like the idea, of course. There are many who do not. There are legislative people (Senators and House of Rep) in my state who feel the government required them to sign on to something simply for the ability to apply for Race To The Top funding. The agreement to accept the Common Core Standards was required a full 5 months before the standards were even written (Sound familiar....."have to pass it to find out what is in it"?).......

The states are always wanting to improve educational standards for their students...and there is nothing wrong with that. However, a National set of standards that emphasizes the "common" and not excellence is not a good set of standards.

As far as the English standards (and I did notice you did not touch the subject of the math standards)....I did not nor would I decide what is considered good works of Literary Work. However, allowing agenda based (chosen by each teacher) into classrooms can be dangerous (especially if parents are not involved in their children's schools or education).

For example.....as everyone is VERY aware, the thought of having anything "Christian" related in schools is a big no-no. Schools have been sued over it, such as prayer......and I can't imagine they would allow Bibles in school. My 10th grader spent 2 weeks studying the Koran in October. I was very involved in this as the teacher agreed to send me the assignments before hand. When asked if the same amount of time was to be spent on other religious texts, her response was yes to Buddhism, yes to other Eastern religions....no to the Bible. (It was her decision and her choice to teach these things.....in his English Class). I spoke to the Superintendent about this, the teacher, the principal, etc. I did manage to have her send a letter out to all parents of children in her classes to let them know about this. Some parents requested other assignments. I allowed my son in so that we would know exactly what was being taught within the classroom. Of course, it was interesting that the passages quoted from the Koran were actually paraphrased and were not accurate to the Koran.....but, of course, that would not have fit with what she was teaching.

Anyway, I have spent much time in my efforts to have my state roll this back. Not only is Common Core going to be very bad for the kids, but the testing is an issue as well.

If people have fear of government intrusion (or it knowing too much, etc) the 900 data points that will be collected by the SBAC should concern people. My children had the "pre test"....actual test will be in the Spring. The questions on the math side were not ....give me the correct answer......they were "on a scale from 1-10 (the sliding scale was on the screen) for the question of 4+6+12 = ? what is your feeling about how you came to your answer?" ...with 1 being "I guessed" to "10 being I thought about how in real life this might help me". There was no answer for the actual answer....they did not care. This was ONE example.

I have so many examples....so many documented and copied directly from my children's workbooks and hardback books. People are free to feel as they want.....but this is something I am VERY involved in and will fight until it is repealed!

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Let me preface this with something I hinted at earlier. You're not against CC, because you obviously don't know what it is. You're against this simply because you're a die hard bigot.

I did mention math. Much fewer multiple choice questions.

The option on what to read has always been the teacher's. That has nothing to do with CC. CC doesn't dictate what is to be read. No standard does.

You're not talking about an actual assessment, you're talking about learning scales and a pre-test. The learning scale is so the teacher & student can see growth. This is a Marzano thing, not CC. A pre-test is done so the teacher knows what material needs to be covered. Your doctor doesn't just blindly give you pills, they ask questions to gather information first. That's what a pre-test is and it's also not a CC thing.

It's very possible your child's workbook is not aligned to CC.

What are you actual complaints about the standards themselves?

RobDownSouth said:

Oh wow, I'd forgotten completely about that little episode. Bert's credibility has really taken quite a hit in the past few years.....not that he had that much to begin with.

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crediwhatabutt? never heard of it.

So is the Koran a classic literary work or a non-fiction informational text?