just curious : gratification of being a dom

Primalex said:

Uhm... the "make me" is the appeal.

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No, I still don't see it. That's an imperative - a peremptory command. Subs don't get to command. If you respond to such an impertinent demand by whipping, beating or some other 'punishment', you are doing what they want, and not necessarily what you want.

It's rather like that old joke:
Masochist: Beat me within an inch of my life!
Sadist: No.

Primalex said:

Uhm... the "make me" is the appeal.

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Ok, I dig that. But when it comes with lot of histrionics? Is that appealing too?
I somehow differ the challenge from play pretending. Not sure I can point at exact difference though.

I know that you know that I know what you know that I know...

DesEsseintes said:

No, I still don't see it. That's an imperative - a peremptory command. Subs don't get to command. If you respond to such an impertinent demand by whipping, beating or some other 'punishment', you are doing what they want, and not necessarily what you want.

It's rather like that old joke:
Masochist: Beat me within an inch of my life!
Sadist: No.

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Here's another old joke

I know that you know that I know...

That trope is usually used by people who are so smart they outfox themselves.

Are you with someone who is being your willing supplicant? Then beyond all else, they are in control no matter if they ask for a beating or not. Unless you are saying you usually beat unwilling people??? Doubtful.

So the young lady you just finished spanking ties your shoelaces together while she was bent over your knee. You get up and start to walk away and trip and fall. She deserves a good walloping for that, but ...wait! She DID that on purpose to motivate you to do just that! So instead of venting the anger coursing through your veins, you do the smart thing and deny her (and yourself).

Isn't that smart??

That's one of the tricks Goldie used to do and as Goldie used to say, ShutupNspank.

DesEsseintes said:

No, I still don't see it. That's an imperative - a peremptory command. Subs don't get to command. If you respond to such an impertinent demand by whipping, beating or some other 'punishment', you are doing what they want, and not necessarily what you want.

It's rather like that old joke:
Masochist: Beat me within an inch of my life!
Sadist: No.

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Why not?
Is that not the essence of consent, which is the thing that differentiates BDSM from good old fashioned abuse?
I'm with L_Wulf on this one. Seems to me some people would bit off their nose to make a point.

Although getting my shoelaces tied together warrants sending someone to the corner. AFAIC, she is perfectly welcome to ask politely for what she wants.

Stella_Omega said:

Although getting my shoelaces tied together warrants sending someone to the corner. AFAIC, she is perfectly welcome to ask politely for what she wants.

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Would be a total deal breaker for me. I cant stand childish in my bed. Ew!!!

But yeah consent and total control dont go together.
I thought that one was chewed over and concluded and done with ages ago.

I brat, and my husband who identifies as a sadist loves it. So StrayKat definitely doesn't speak for all of them.

I love all this speculation about how that kind of relationship works and who the people in it are, as though we're a thing out of legend. Y'all could just ask, yannow.

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Sasha69 said:

... I have two little Princesses that have given themselves to me. This is Precious. This Requires Protocol, Discipline and for My Princesses, Decorum. They must remain true to me and loyal to each other. They WILL be respectful at all I can let my imagination run free, and trust My Ladies Sukie and PAige to return it to me, spent, sweating and greatful ! Is this not so My Pet ?

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Yes Mistress all of what You said is so true.

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Sasha69 said:

Princess Sukie & Princess Paige will serve only WHO? and I am quite sure. I will be envied! and I already know I AM BLESSED. Is this not so MY PETS ? Do I need to crap my whip for your fealty? or have I already won it? What say you Pets ! ?

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We will only serve You Mistress. I do feel quite blessed to have both You Mistress and my Princess Sis Sukie. You have won my devotion and if You need to crack that whip then I know it is what I need

Sasha69 said:

Princess Sukie & Princess Paige will serve only WHO? and I am quite sure. I will be envied! and I already know I AM BLESSED. Is this not so MY PETS ? Do I need to crap my whip for your fealty? or have I already won it? What say you Pets ! ?

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For fuck's sake take this somewhere else. Christ.

Sasha69 said:

... I have two little Princesses that have given themselves to me. This is Precious. This Requires Protocol, Discipline and for My Princesses, Decorum. They must remain true to me and loyal to each other. They WILL be respectful at all I can let my imagination run free, and trust My Ladies Sukie and PAige to return it to me, spent, sweating and greatful ! Is this not so My Pet ?

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turnofthepaige said:

Yes Mistress all of what You said is so true.

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willingtobeused said:

Yes Mistress we will always obey you

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Sasha69 said:

4 u Pet

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Sasha69 said:

4 u Pet

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Sasha69 said:

Princess Sukie & Princess Paige will serve only WHO? and I am quite sure. I will be envied! and I already know I AM BLESSED. Is this not so MY PETS ? Do I need to crap my whip for your fealty? or have I already won it? What say you Pets ! ?

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willingtobeused said:

We serve you Mistress

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turnofthepaige said:

We will only serve You Mistress. I do feel quite blessed to have both You Mistress and my Princess Sis Sukie. You have won my devotion and if You need to crack that whip then I know it is what I need

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Fuck that got boring.

Just when I was enjoying the discussion.

I enjoy being dominant - because I can.

Knowing that I hold the key to what someone wants and I can give it or withhold it as I please.

Primalex said:

Uhm... the "make me" is the appeal.

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From my submissive/dominant bottom (whatever the hell!) view I have to agree with this. As I’m the one that agitates for D/s you’d think I’d plop to the floor and wag my tail when we “play”. Not so much. I often make it difficult, sometimes even slapping my SO's hands when he tries to touch my breasts. Aggravating (for me and him), and counterproductive, as I’m trying to encourage him to dominate me.

Submission alone just grates me somehow. I need a certain amount of force/aggression to be able to let go. Once over the line I can submit just fine, at least to the limited edge my SO imposes. Is the line imaginary? Sure. But I need it to even begin to be able to submit.

Presumably this makes it about control for me, rather than service or pain. It may also be the root of my reluctance to take up online play. How can any type of force be applied over the internet?

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I don’t know why brattiness is attractive, but it's the one thing I can do the gets my SO going. I don’t go “full brat”, rather a little bratty combined with pouty. When I pull it he laughs and gets more aggressive. He can’t tell my why it attracts him, just that’s it’s cute.

I’ve been assuming it’s because the behavior is so different than my everyday persona. I’m not bratty in the least, and I might possibly prefer to be dead than pout publicly. However, after reading all this it seems likely there are other underlying reasons.

Endless_Night said:

From my submissive/dominant bottom (whatever the hell!) view I have to agree with this. As I’m the one that agitates for D/s you’d think I’d plop to the floor and wag my tail when we “play”. Not so much. I often make it difficult, sometimes even slapping my SO's hands when he tries to touch my breasts. Aggravating (for me and him), and counterproductive, as I’m trying to encourage him to dominate me.

Submission alone just grates me somehow. I need a certain amount of force/aggression to be able to let go. Once over the line I can submit just fine, at least to the limited edge my SO imposes. Is the line imaginary? Sure. But I need it to even begin to be able to submit.

Presumably this makes it about control for me, rather than service or pain. It may also be the root of my reluctance to take up online play. How can any type of force be applied over the internet?

*******

I don’t know why brattiness is attractive, but its the one thing I can do the gets my SO going. I don’t go “full brat”, rather a little bratty combined with pouty. When I pull it he laughs and gets more aggressive. He can’t tell my why it attracts him, just that’s it’s cute.

I’ve been assuming it’s because the behavior is so different than my everyday persona. I’m not bratty in the least, and I might possibly prefer to be dead than pout publicly. However, after reading all this it seems likely there are other underlying reasons.

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Interesting. It's fascinating to hear how it works for others.
I've always been far more dominant than submissive. To me control is something I keep ... At all times. I can very easily step into being dominant and tie someone up and play with that and enjoy it.
Only recently and only with one man I've been exploring being submissive. I'd never even let someone tie me up before him. I
To let go of control is hard, but for me it has to be something that I let go of by myself rather than being forced to let go of.

Sasha69 said:

Princess Sukie & Princess Paige will serve only WHO? and I am quite sure. I will be envied! and I already know I AM BLESSED. Is this not so MY PETS ? Do I need to crap my whip for your fealty? or have I already won it? What say you Pets ! ?

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I would pay good money to see you crap your whip.

Three rude-ass little ladies for the ignore list, methinks.

Erochic said:

Interesting. It's fascinating to hear how it works for others.
I've always been far more dominant than submissive. To me control is something I keep ... At all times. I can very easily step into being dominant and tie someone up and play with that and enjoy it.
Only recently and only with one man I've been exploring being submissive. I'd never even let someone tie me up before him. I
To let go of control is hard, but for me it has to be something that I let go of by myself rather than being forced to let go of.

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I totally agree. Letting go of control is hard for me as well. I've never been able to submit - or let go - in the past. Somehow the consensual "force" is what kicks me into the "letting go is okay" zone. It make no sense to me whatsoever.

It just seems to be what works.

Stella_Omega said:

I would pay good money to see you crap your whip.

Three rude-ass little ladies for the ignore list, methinks.

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*Snicker*

KoPilot said:

I brat, and my husband who identifies as a sadist loves it. So StrayKat definitely doesn't speak for all of them.

I love all this speculation about how that kind of relationship works and who the people in it are, as though we're a thing out of legend. Y'all could just ask, yannow.

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Guess I should put up disclaimer: I speak only for myself and by no means present the rest of the general community? Even though I thought that was obvious

I sadist. For me brat = annoying, entitled, vain, disrespectful.
Some other sadist, brat = cute.
Sorry, my shorthand English is not so good to get the point across any better.

I think "we all" just asked, and some people even answered in relatively understandable way. I dont even think I noticed many speculations. I admit I still dont get it but its more "there is this big spider in my bath I really dont like" thing for me than a thing out of legend. I get that some people like spiders though.


Oh and just to ask, could someone maybe ask a mod to clean up those 3 clowns above? Seeing their spluttering first thing I opened this thread didnt do much for my mood.

DesEsseintes said:

No, I still don't see it. That's an imperative - a peremptory command. Subs don't get to command. If you respond to such an impertinent demand by whipping, beating or some other 'punishment', you are doing what they want, and not necessarily what you want.

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You are trying a philosophical approach to sex (which overvalues sex):
Is a rapist a rapist if he rapes someone who does not mind?

And the answer depends on whether you value the intent or the result.


"and not necessarily what you want."

That's the wrong approach. It's the premise that the Dom does what (s)he wants. Otherwise you get into the valley of "A true Dom does not do X.".

I knew there was something I forgot to do...

Endless_Night said:

If it is true would that mean RL control wielding submissives were, in actual fact, dominant bottoms?

Somehow my definitions feel like they're going wonky.

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Definitions are subjective in a genre of fetish until someone creates a compendium that delineates the definitions (that everyone can mostly agree with).

Allow me to ease your burden, quit trying to see what specialized pigeon hole you fit into. Quit trying to second guess what others may or may not see you as because of a generalized label.

Now, to answer your primary question, I don't know if your intent was to bridge real life and sexual preferences, but taking the question from the sexual preferences, the simple answer is "yes." submissives are in fact dominant bottoms, IF you take it from the aspect that a bottom makes a decision to submit. They set limits on what they are or are not willing to do, etc etc etc.

However, the point of submitting to someone is that you don't know which direction their domination will take.

In the example of the spanked submissive who ties your shoe laces together while over your knee; Stella would send the submissive to the corner, while I would appease their unasked want and test their limits on endurance of pain, while another dominant might see this as a good time to get the switch and palms up teach the naughty submissive what doing naughty things with idle hands earns them.

The submissive submits. Simply that. In which direction the dominant dominates is subjective. Sometimes a submissive wants to simply follow in the stream of someone stronger willing to not make waves and being utterly compliant. Some submissives have needs they want filled and are willing to plow the beginning of a new direction for the dominant to lead in. In actuality, this is simply the submissive testing the boundaries of control or, testing the limits of dominance their dominant has.

Some dominants don't like this. Some submissives don't like their limits being tested as some dominants, like myself, like to test the limits of a submissives' submissiveness. I respect limits, but I do test them.

Some have said that the worst brats going around are dominants. Look at it this way, isn't a dominant really saying:

"I WANT! I WANT! I WANT! It's MY way or NO way!"

Now who really is the spoiled brat? I hope that concept doesn't fry your noodle.

A. Some (both dominants and submissives) work within preset boundaries and don't dare break them. They feel that TRUST is key and breaking boundaries is breaking trust, which proves (or disproves) their dominant's or submissives' role is not worthy.

B. Some (both dominants and submissives) test the boundaries of the other because how TRUE is someone's choice role if they do what the other wants and nothing more? Limiting a dominant makes them submissive while empowering a submissive makes them dominant. By testing the boundaries, you prove out the role of who is submissive and who is dominant.

C. Then again, some people are 24/7 and simply say I have no boundaries to my dominance/submission. This is the ONLY way to prove out my role and the role of who I am with.

That people are A, B or C and that each feels their way is the "right" way is the reason a compendium of definitions will never be "mostly agreed upon." besides which, most people are in flux of knowing which pigeon hole they fit into.

Okay, time to get off the soap box.

edit: All labels and categories mentioned are subjective and are not meant to preclude that variant alternatives exist. My point is all labels are subjective and their perception from self and from others always vary based on preconceptions. the best example of this is the three people walking down the road: the person I see myself as, the person others see me as, and the person I truly am.