Do you know what your readers want from you?

Do you know why they follow you? Can you tell from your ratings and scores and comments what they get from your writing?

Every time I think I know, every time I think we're in sync with what I want to write, and they want to read, they seem to lose interest. Maybe I repeat myself. Not sure.

I do take a look at who else they follow to get some ideas, but if you did that with me, you wouldn't get a clear picture of what I like, as I follow some for their craft, some for their content.

So - do you know what makes you popular with your readers?

People seem to like...

The interplay and relationships between my characters. They say that they feel very real. Apparently my humour is also appreciated.

I get yelled at a lot for using what are apparently uncommon words, big words. I've been told I'm pretentious for using words I grew up using.

I need to provide more translations when I use other languages. Even off it's just for songs.

One of my characters is in a very loving relationship with her nephew, but there is incredibly charged and potent sexual tension between her and her older sister, the nephew's mother. Most reviewers and people who PM me say they want to see expression there.

But there's a much smaller and incredibly screamy/vitriolic group who threaten to never read my stories again if the sisters give in to temptation. Nobody ever threatens to not read my stories if the sisters DON'T get together. Jeez.

I've received a rather vitriolic dressing down in PM where someone said 'How dare you do (blahblahblahblahblah!) with this character?! She would never!'

Golly, I'm sorry. I thought I was the one writing these characters. Didn't realize I'd telepathically plucked them from your subconscious and that you already knew what was best for them. My bad!

Now I now how the producers and writing staff on the show I'm working on feel when hardcore fans start frothing and raging about things. 'THIS ISN'T CANON! YOU'RE SCREWING EVERYTHING UP! I HATE YOU! STOP OR I'LL NEVER WATCH AGAIN!'

So, no. I'm not sure I really know what my readers want.

I'm gonna paraphrase Ivan Drago in Rocky IV.

'I WRITE FOR ME!'

Basically they get their fix is the reason why I think any reader follows any author.

The irony is many new authors come here looking for help with 'what to the readers think is hot, what works?"

The reality is with an audience this vast everything works. Everey kink, every POV, short, long, with depth, pure stroke, realistic, ridiculously over the top, it all works.

But all of it only works for certain audiences and they find you. The more stories you write the more chance the people who are looking for what you write will find you.

FWIW lit is consistently inconsistent. Meaning you could write a story and it could do very well. You could write the same formula for the next one and it could tank and the reasons could be who knows what?

Best thing to do is not worry about the readers at all and write what you want and how you want to write it. Yes the Red H and things like top lists and fav author top lists look nice, but how much does it earn you?

Write for yourself and you'll find an audience and if its not a huge one, who cares> Its more important to do your thing and not pander to sell out for a fickle group that will forget you tomorrow and move on to the next 'best story ever'

No idea what they want. I basically write what *I* want and I'm happy someone else besides me seems to enjoy my stuff. Most of the comments on my stories are along the lines of "good stuff, more please", but they don't elaborate what they liked. Which is a shame, really, because it leaves it to myself to estimate my own strengths and weaknesses. And I really, really suck at self-assessment. But if I had to analyze my own crap, I would rate it thusly:

Very good at
- World-building
- Plots

Average at
- Characterization (some good ones, some flat ones)

Meh
- Sex scenes

Feel free to dash my glass house to bits

I have a pretty good idea now of what a lot of my regular readers like - but it doesn't influence my writing. I go ahead and write what I want to write and I'm finding more and more readers follow me across categories regardless of what they are. I've had a few readers tell me they've read my incest stories where they never read incest before, just because I wrote it. Ditto with SF / Erotic Horror and "Nockatunga Station". The views vary, but that's largely the category, and the bulk of LIT readers are pretty consistent about the niche(s) they read and enjoy, so that doesn't change.

Can I tell what they get from the comments? Not really, but I get a lot of offline feedback that gives me a good idea, and I try to work some of the feedback in. It's good to know what your audience likes in general and if I can work that in, I do. Every little improvement helps but for me, I think I have the content - it's things like writing styles and techniques and plot that I'm working on now to try and improve.

Using BlindJustice's breakdown, if I had to analyze my own crap, I would rate it thusly:

Very good at
- Sex scenes
- Getting the reader into my character's heads
- Coming up with sad but romantic endings
- Authentic background detail (sometimes too much detail...)
- Taking a line from a song or a single idea or something I've seen and turning it into the basis for a story ("Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" - I just started with the song and took it from there....)

Average at
- Characterization (getting better)
- Dialog (getting better)

Meh
- Plotting longer stories, but I'm working on it (the plotting)
- Repeating myself - I do it deliberately but I overuse it
- Rushing in and over-committing - I'll start a story, get part way in and realize it's far far bigger than I anticipated ("Fields of Gold")

Just Bad
- Leaving chapter stories hanging, even though in my head I'm still working on them, but readers don't see that...

Is it Bad or is it Good?
- Long winded. I can take a breakfast and make it 3,000 words. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I get comments both ways where some readers love the minutiae and others get turned off. On balance, I love all the stuff. Like all the Harley and biker details in "Chinese Takeout" and for the readers who know, it gives it that authenticity and realism that hooks them.

Challenges
- I can't write it if it doesn't resonate with me. I've tried writing for others a couple of times and it just doesn't work. I have no investment in anyone else's story ideas and if it doesn't do something for me, I can't motivate myself to work on it.

BiscuitHammer said:

The interplay and relationships between my characters. They say that they feel very real. Apparently my humour is also appreciated.

I get yelled at a lot for using what are apparently uncommon words, big words. I've been told I'm pretentious for using words I grew up using.

I need to provide more translations when I use other languages. Even off it's just for songs.

One of my characters is in a very loving relationship with her nephew, but there is incredibly charged and potent sexual tension between her and her older sister, the nephew's mother. Most reviewers and people who PM me say they want to see expression there.

But there's a much smaller and incredibly screamy/vitriolic group who threaten to never read my stories again if the sisters give in to temptation. Nobody ever threatens to not read my stories if the sisters DON'T get together. Jeez.

I've received a rather vitriolic dressing down in PM where someone said 'How dare you do (blahblahblahblahblah!) with this character?! She would never!'

Golly, I'm sorry. I thought I was the one writing these characters. Didn't realize I'd telepathically plucked them from your subconscious and that you already knew what was best for them. My bad!

Now I now how the producers and writing staff on the show I'm working on feel when hardcore fans start frothing and raging about things. 'THIS ISN'T CANON! YOU'RE SCREWING EVERYTHING UP! I HATE YOU! STOP OR I'LL NEVER WATCH AGAIN!'

So, no. I'm not sure I really know what my readers want.

I'm gonna paraphrase Ivan Drago in Rocky IV.

'I WRITE FOR ME!'

Click to expand...

The sheer readership in incest means I'm constantly glancing over at it, thinking... should I? But they fucking hate gay sex over there, and I don't enjoy writing hetero sex, unless I'm feeling particularly inspired, and I've never managed to hold onto that inspiration long enough to figure out how to apply it to incest.

But I am jealous of the size of the audience, and the sheer amount of feedback writers get... although, from what you've said, a lot of it's from illiterate twats.

They do seem very... invested. I wonder why that is? I/T and LW... so much passion for their stories in both categories, but they're still just stories. Fantasies. I scratch my head, I really do.

'I write for me'.

I'll get that engraved on my monitor at some point. Try and remember, that's the whole bloody point.

lovecraft68 said:

Basically they get their fix is the reason why I think any reader follows any author.

The irony is many new authors come here looking for help with 'what to the readers think is hot, what works?"

The reality is with an audience this vast everything works. Everey kink, every POV, short, long, with depth, pure stroke, realistic, ridiculously over the top, it all works.

But all of it only works for certain audiences and they find you. The more stories you write the more chance the people who are looking for what you write will find you.

FWIW lit is consistently inconsistent. Meaning you could write a story and it could do very well. You could write the same formula for the next one and it could tank and the reasons could be who knows what?

Best thing to do is not worry about the readers at all and write what you want and how you want to write it. Yes the Red H and things like top lists and fav author top lists look nice, but how much does it earn you?

Write for yourself and you'll find an audience and if its not a huge one, who cares> Its more important to do your thing and not pander to sell out for a fickle group that will forget you tomorrow and move on to the next 'best story ever'

Click to expand...

I think we are very different writers, with very different perspectives, but on this issue, we are entirely in accord.

I don't create product, my writing is not a commodity. I see the interchange between the author and the reader as a mutual agreement to share the world contained within the work. For that world to maintain any credibility, each has to commit fully to their part of the bargain. If I, as the author, do not make my best effort to present my true vision of that self contained world, I have failed. The reader's side of the exchange is their responsibilty.

My strengths and weaknesses? I've been praised for my abilities at drawing realistic characters and conveying emotional complexity, and I do think those are areas where I am strong. A lot of people have said I have a talent for making people cry, and I must admit that I rather like that.

My weakest area, ironically, is the erotic content. The actual description of sexual activity is not that interesting to me. I want to get into the cause and effect, and often give the "action" short shrift. I Imagine I've got a pretty low wanks per word ratio.

I pretty much decided back when a pretty spectacular woman figured I would make good husband material there is just no accounting for taste. Fortunately for me, eh?

And, that's pretty much carried over to people who read my pencil-gasms.

Whenever I try to figure out just what in the hell they are thinking they actually like reading my stuff, I give myself a mental cramp. So, I usually just go on to open my trenchcoat on another blank screen and hope they aren't sorry they peeked.

lovecraft68 said:

Basically they get their fix is the reason why I think any reader follows any author.



The reality is with an audience this vast everything works. Everey kink, every POV, short, long, with depth, pure stroke, realistic, ridiculously over the top, it all works.

'

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I think both these points are absolutely true.

That said, I think every author can maximize his/her positive reader response by doing a few things:

1. Avoid the most common grammar and spelling errors. Most Lit readers don't seem to care too much, but in a reader pool this big you'll avoid turning off some if you clean up the writing.

2. Make at least some effort to make the erotic scene believable. It doesn't take much but a little effort at this generally makes the story better and will be appreciated by some readers.

3. Focus on the sex scenes. It's what a lot of readers come here for -- pun intended -- and they appreciate a hot, well-drawn scene.

My readers?

1. They want me to write more frequently.

2. But they also want a story from me that is NOT like the most recent one, whatever that was.

I can't win.

SimonDoom said:

I think both these points are absolutely true.

That said, I think every author can maximize his/her positive reader response by doing a few things:

1. Avoid the most common grammar and spelling errors. Most Lit readers don't seem to care too much, but in a reader pool this big you'll avoid turning off some if you clean up the writing.

2. Make at least some effort to make the erotic scene believable. It doesn't take much but a little effort at this generally makes the story better and will be appreciated by some readers.

3. Focus on the sex scenes. It's what a lot of readers come here for -- pun intended -- and they appreciate a hot, well-drawn scene.

Click to expand...

No argument in regards to #1 and #2. As a dude who writes mainly SF and Fantasy, I do object to #3. A good setting, decent plot and a good premise can carry a story, even with little to no sex. Some of my highest-rated submissions don't even feature nudity. Just sayin'.

From the comments I've received, the strengths of my stories are:

1. Good imagination in coming up with fun, erotic situations.
2. Believability -- the use of pacing and motivation to make a character's choice to do sometimes extreme erotic things believable.
3. Writing style -- appreciated by many, though certainly not by all.
4. Stroke-worthy sex scenes. I've had a number of comments to the effect that I have assisted my readers in this regard.

I get positive feedback and good ratings for character development, plot and story-telling style.

But what the readers get is what I feel like writing, which sometimes has good character development, plot and story-telling style.

Blind_Justice said:

No argument in regards to #1 and #2. As a dude who writes mainly SF and Fantasy, I do object to #3. A good setting, decent plot and a good premise can carry a story, even with little to no sex. Some of my highest-rated submissions don't even feature nudity. Just sayin'.

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Point well taken. I have not written any stories in that category, but from what I've read I would agree that the sex scenes seem to take more of a back seat. But a better sex scene wouldn't hurt, would it? Or would it? Maybe a more detailed sex scene would distract the reader from the main story, which is what they're interested in.

SimonDoom said:

Point well taken. I have not written any stories in that category, but from what I've read I would agree that the sex scenes seem to take more of a back seat. But a better sex scene wouldn't hurt, would it? Or would it? Maybe a more detailed sex scene would distract the reader from the main story, which is what they're interested in.

Click to expand...

In the story-heavy categories like SciFi&F or Romance, sex needs to fit into the flow of the story. Readers may complain if you develop it too much. Even in EC and I/T there are communities who reward romantic stories where sex arises from the plot, rather than being the plot.

I hold to the belief that sex isn't inherently erotic, but that sex is made erotic by the relationships developed in the story.

NotWise said:

In the story-heavy categories like SciFi&F or Romance, sex needs to fit into the flow of the story. Readers may complain if you develop it too much. Even in EC and I/T there are communities who reward romantic stories where sex arises from the plot, rather than being the plot.

I hold to the belief that sex isn't inherently erotic, but that sex is made erotic by the relationships developed in the story.

Click to expand...

Having not previously submitted in the Romance category, I was surprised to get some polite but negative criticism of Mary and Alvin, Chapter One, because they had sex on their first date.

Basically I have a good idea. Certain things and styles are popular with each catagory. And that shows in scores, comments, and favorites. And of course, the amount of people actually reading and voting.

But then again, in each catagory, there's more than one way to become popular.

NotWise said:

In the story-heavy categories like SciFi&F or Romance, sex needs to fit into the flow of the story. Readers may complain if you develop it too much. Even in EC and I/T there are communities who reward romantic stories where sex arises from the plot, rather than being the plot.

I hold to the belief that sex isn't inherently erotic, but that sex is made erotic by the relationships developed in the story.

Click to expand...

I tell people all the time the difference between erotica and porn is the same as between a quickie and a nice long fun romp.

Porn is the quickie, the hey, how about I pull my panties down, my skirt up and bend over the bed and you take what you need?

Erotica is the nice dinner, some dancing, some drinks, slow sensual kissing and undressing, foreplay, the whole nine yards so to speak.

Also in porn the only thing readers need to know is their characters have dicks and pussies and mouths and use them. Its a quick release so who cares what Amy's motivations are....girl is horny and wants it bad!

Erotica the sex at the end is more gratifying because you have gotten to know these people and are anticipating them getting together and that works in all categories.

Except group. I adhere to group being the 100% top category of mindless fucking and before anyone picks on me for saying that I've won two contests in that category.

Oh, one of the common requests/tantrums thrown at me...

That I should learn to spell.

Apparently, I keep misspelling the word 'color' as 'colour'.

I misspell 'armor' as 'armour', and 'favor' as 'favour'.

Y'all can see where I'm going with this, right? If I had to investigate my readership demographics based on tantrums, I'm pretty sure I'd know quickly.

It's gotten to the place where I've announced in my disclaimer or Author's Notes that I am indeed Canadian, and that we spell certain English words differently up here. If that angries up the blood, don't read my stories.

It really came to that. There were that many PM tantrums I received. 'Please start spelling MY way.'

The mind doth boggle...

BiscuitHammer said:

That I should learn to spell.

Apparently, I keep misspelling the word 'color' as 'colour'.

I misspell 'armor' as 'armour', and 'favor' as 'favour'.

Y'all can see where I'm going with this, right? If I had to investigate my readership demographics based on tantrums, I'm pretty sure I'd know quickly.

It's gotten to the place where I've announced in my disclaimer or Author's Notes that I am indeed Canadian, and that we spell certain English words differently up here. If that angries up the blood, don't read my stories.

It really came to that. There were that many PM tantrums I received. 'Please start spelling MY way.'

The mind doth boggle...

Click to expand...

This surprises me, because there are so many authors here from Britain, Canada, and Australia, and the fastest way to tell that a writer isn't from America is the use of "ou" instead of "o." I would think readers would know that, but then, that would violate the rule that you can't generalize about Lit readers, because there are so many of them, and they span the full gamut of ignorance and knowledge.

....................

BiscuitHammer said:

It really came to that. There were that many PM tantrums I received. 'Please start spelling MY way.'

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I`d probably reply to that with 'Please start paying me before you tell me to do it your way, that`s how it works, no?'

As for what I`m good and bad at ... I honestly don`t know, since I`m new here. I`ve only submitted a story just yesterday. But based on my own judgement it would boil down to this probably:

Good
- Plot
- Continuity
- Humor

Average
- Character depth
- Character personality
- English language (it`s not my native language, so my vocabulary is by far not as great as I`d love to; I do have an above-average grasp for grammar and spelling, though I tend to mix up British-English/American-English for particular words/sentences, making my storytelling a little inconsistent)

Bad
- Research and background information
- Erotic content
- Actually finishing a story
- Keeping things short instead of trying to exceed 500-pages

Why would I be bad at erotic content? Probably because I`m a prude
But honestly, I have never written erotic content. I try to write stories, but I`ve never written anything sex-related. Hell, in most of my stories people don`t even have sex. So I felt I should expand my horizon and try my hand at erotic content for a change, hence me signing up here and submitting a story.

The people who read my stuff but don't follow me are too busy counting the typo and word usage mistakes.

While the people who do follow me are too busy beating off to type a comment. They only have one hand for the mouse and vote.

Then there are those who don't follow but read and comment. Most leave nice comments, but others...don't.

Do I really know what they want? None have told me anything except...

"Continue the story."
"Can't wait for the next chapter."

Problem is those comments are always on a one shot story...no sequels planned. And how can I continue a story were everyone dies in the end?

SimonDoom said:

This surprises me, because there are so many authors here from Britain, Canada, and Australia, and the fastest way to tell that a writer isn't from America is the use of "ou" instead of "o." I would think readers would know that, but then, that would violate the rule that you can't generalize about Lit readers, because there are so many of them, and they span the full gamut of ignorance and knowledge.

Click to expand...

Agree - I write "Australian", and not once has some tiny brain pinged me on spelling. Which means I was being read by intelligent, world-aware readers from day one, or nobody reads my work. Since the latter is not the case, then I guess I've been lucky enough to avoid the idiot-pool of readers.

Do I know what my readers want? Based on comments received: my slow languid style (telling a slow story slowly), my believable characters, the strong women I portray, my obvious love for said women (my heart on my sleeve), my close-in and intimate sex scenes. The unexpected things I write - being "outside the norm around here" seems to work well, for me.

SimonDoom said:

2. Make at least some effort to make the erotic scene believable.

Click to expand...

Or, in GM, aka, please, please use lube.