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Need to talk to Others about Sexless Marriage

FelicityJohns said:
Very true.

My method is to use humor, to make requests (and I used to, often) in very plain but playful language... for instance, on Christmas day, we don't celebrate. But I said to him "It would be kind of nice to have something to unwrap." He agreed with a smile. So I said with a twinkle, "You could unwrap me." And I got the gentle laugh and 'You're incorrigable' response. No unwrapping! lol And I am usually more explicit than that even.

I use humor to give myself an out. His rejection is not so painful that way.

The other side of my method is to downplay his 'disinterest' and ED. For 12 years, I've held fast that is 'no big deal' even as the 'deal' has become whopping. I don't want to make him feel badly for something he can't help. But it also makes me angry that he has taken no measures to rectify the situation. How many times I've very gently told him that a cock is not crucial to a woman's sexual satisfaction. But he doesn't want to hear me, or face it.

So here I am. I'll allow him to keep his head in the sand, and he allows me the freedom to do whatever I like. :rose:
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Thank you for sharing. Obviously I don't know your situation. But the way you describe it I am struck by the perception that your approach gives both of you an easy exit. I totally get why you want to keep it light and avoid the harsh rejection. But for the same reasons he is not compelled to really come to grips with the situation. You both get to avoid.

Erectile disfunction is one of the most crippling psychological and emotional experiences possible for a man. I respectfully suggest that he is coming from a position of much greater weakness than you as a result.

So he allows you the freedom to do what you like. Does that mean you have sex with other men?

Not for me to judge by a long shot. I do have sex with other men. But consider a man who thinks he can't deliver for his own wife, tacitly accepts her taking other lovers and receives passive-aggressive overtures to do more for her. I can see that your good humour is aimed at diffusing the situation, but I expect it would be very difficult for him to see it that way. He needs a path to success with the support to get there.
 
I would

uhhhh, yeah, never mind, it was just blah blah blah

Have a great year!
 
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sounds familiar

I'm in the same boat as a lot of you: married 20+ years, absolutely sexless for the last 12.

No touching.

No kissing.

Nothing.

Counseling didn't help. Despite the fact that we get along pretty well (like two people who have been coworkers for a long time) it seems incredibly unfair to me that one person in a marriage gets to rewrite the rules of what I believe is an extremely important part of a loving relationship. I love sex and adored having sex with my wife. But now a huge part of my life has been removed. It's a daily struggle to keep resentment at bay. I know for a fact that we will never have another intimate moment together for as long as we live.
 
Its really tough hearing all the anguish you all go through. I've been in a 12 year marriage where I have been taking care of my wifes needs but then she is too tired to take care of mine. Its probably been 5 years since I was with her. Just emotionally I felt betrayed. I was allot more upset about it the first couple of years (especially when she watched a romantic movie and I was like why do I not get that attention). But now I try not to think about it.

Like many of you I have talked to my partner openly about wanting to be more emotionally engaged, asked for marriage counseling but she was not comfortable. I even bought a sex book for her so we could start from the beginning together. I've come to realize that this is how her family is and well I probably got married to early.

Where to go from here? Well I think communication is important. I consider my wife my friend. She is loyal just not emotionally expressive like me. So I think you need to figure out what is important in your life for your happiness. A sexual relationship is part of the whole package. Just seems that you need a path to what will make you happy. Maybe counseling is a start? If she won't go then you need to go on your own. One way or the other your partner will either have to be flexible to the final solution or you will have to consider starting over. Just sexless marriage will destroy your friendship. The more angry I got with my partner the worse I felt about myself.
 
SimpleGifts said:
So does this mean that people on this thread have resolved this issue?

SG
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I think to think there is a day to day thoughts of what is the right thing to do. I'm at that stage where I feel hurt enough that I do not want to start over and date. I'm more comfortable with the affection I receive in my friendship. My best friend reminds me to be kind to myself. And in turn I try to be the same to the people around me.
 
FelicityJohns said:
Apologies, lost track of the thread.

No. I don't have sex with other men. Never been with anyone but him. But I do seek the fun and attention of places like Lit, and he's aware, though I am respectful and don't rub it in his face. I realize how tough a problem it is. We've gone through it together. I sought fucking counseling for HIS problem. He refused to attend. My problem with him is not his ED, it's his unwillingness to address it. That he's given up.

I've given him the path. He chooses not to take it. There's nothing more I can do, except leave him or stay with him. And I've chosen to stay with him, because there's more to us than sex. :rose:
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Oh Felicity, I completely understand where you are coming from. My situation is ever so slightly different but ED has affected our sex life to the point where I choose to seek relief and excitement through different ways (inc cybering on lit). There is more to us than sex but as a woman with a (v) high sex drive, I seek alternative ways than continuing down the path of being rejected or unsatisfied by a 'bad' session (his view on it, not mine - 'lets give up, you can finish with your vibrator'). With the occasional help of a little pill, he is confident to approach me (and I jump on it - quite literally haha) but this takes any spontaneity out of it and therefore quite a lot of the thrill/excitement. Even with a superb erection, the emotional and psychological impact of ED is significant for the both of us that sex simply isn't as 'natural' as it used to be and should be. (For me, I felt somewhat undesirable for quite a few years until he was honest and I eventually accepted that it wasn't actually about me but this still resonates).
Good luck with your own situation xx
 
Oh man, do I get sucked into these threads. I'm like the most open-minded, least judgemental person and I cannot figure this thing out. I'm sorry for all y'all in a situation such as this.
I don't know? Baffles me. Overall, a seemingly universal problem with so many different levels of complexities, different, and unique configurations of similar situations, each unique in their circumstance yet all are subjective from the perspective of every single, individual person involved.
And, I get it. I was blessed (cursed?) with pretty open mind (or is it, 'opened-mind'?
33.gif
... maybe the correct phrasing is 'opening-mind').
I can understand how—and maybe why, it happens.
I want to help somehow. I see your anger, your hurt, your heartbreak, your resentment, et all. I see you all struggle in your own way, each legit in the right light, or with proper focus. And, I have so many questions. I long for insight.
I'm not married, either. So what the hell do I know? I don't.
My longest LTR ended over 35 years ago. I feel that loss now. Yeah. The selfish and petty part of me wonders which is better: Sleeping in a warm bed next to a person you onced loved deeply enough to marry, but no longer feel that same love for... or, going to sleep every night in a warm bed longing for human touch—a soft caress, a warm hug; human warmth—listening to their breath rise and fall as they sleep; feeling the warmth coming from their body?
I don't know.
I can't come up with a solution for any of ya'all. Anybody, but me, that is. I can blather on, I can brainstorm, I can try to look at all the different sides, the differetnt opinions, emotions and perspectives of a such tragic story as this.
I can only know how I feel, what I would do, how I would behave (or, how I think I want to behave, right now at this moment... not in the immediacy of the actual situation). I'd have to do what worked for me in my head, my heart and my mind.
I can't do that for ya 'all. Only for me. I'd imagine it's like that for everyone, don't you think?
The only thing I know is that people who love each other ought to be able to talk about anything... everything... without fear. Yes. Fear. Without fear.
*gawd. It's late. I've bla bla bla-d... and I might not proofread before posting*
 
pfflyerhot said:
Oh man, do I get sucked into these threads. I'm like the most open-minded, least judgemental person and I cannot figure this thing out. I'm sorry for all y'all in a situation such as this.
I don't know? Baffles me. Overall, a seemingly universal problem with so many different levels of complexities, different, and unique configurations of similar situations, each unique in their circumstance yet all are subjective from the perspective of every single, individual person involved.
And, I get it. I was blessed (cursed?) with pretty open mind (or is it, 'opened-mind'?
33.gif
... maybe the correct phrasing is 'opening-mind').
I can understand how—and maybe why, it happens.
I want to help somehow. I see your anger, your hurt, your heartbreak, your resentment, et all. I see you all struggle in your own way, each legit in the right light, or with proper focus. And, I have so many questions. I long for insight.
I'm not married, either. So what the hell do I know? I don't.
My longest LTR ended over 35 years ago. I feel that loss now. Yeah. The selfish and petty part of me wonders which is better: Sleeping in a warm bed next to a person you onced loved deeply enough to marry, but no longer feel that same love for... or, going to sleep every night in a warm bed longing for human touch—a soft caress, a warm hug; human warmth—listening to their breath rise and fall as they sleep; feeling the warmth coming from their body?
I don't know.
I can't come up with a solution for any of ya'all. Anybody, but me, that is. I can blather on, I can brainstorm, I can try to look at all the different sides, the differetnt opinions, emotions and perspectives of a such tragic story as this.
I can only know how I feel, what I would do, how I would behave (or, how I think I want to behave, right now at this moment... not in the immediacy of the actual situation). I'd have to do what worked for me in my head, my heart and my mind.
I can't do that for ya 'all. Only for me. I'd imagine it's like that for everyone, don't you think?
The only thing I know is that people who love each other ought to be able to talk about anything... everything... without fear. Yes. Fear. Without fear.
*gawd. It's late. I've bla bla bla-d... and I might not proofread before posting*
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Personally, I really appreciate this message. So true that none of us can know either the full circumstances of another's relationship, or the 'right' way to behave in it. There is no black and white. It's all about you doing what you have to do to cope.

Thanks for this :rose::)
 
pfflyerhot said:
Oh man, do I get sucked into these threads. I'm like the most open-minded, least judgemental person and I cannot figure this thing out. I'm sorry for all y'all in a situation such as this.
Overall, a seemingly universal problem with so many different levels of complexities, different, and unique configurations of similar situations, each unique in their circumstance yet all are subjective from the perspective of every single, individual person involved / I'd have to do what worked for me in my head, my heart and my mind / The only thing I know is that people who love each other ought to be able to talk about anything... everything... without fear. Yes. Fear. Without fear.
*gawd. It's late. I've bla bla bla-d... and I might not proofread before posting*
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Hi pfflyerhot,

Thank you for not jumping in there and judging - I see that happen here on lit, the judgements made about married people and like you I am not about to judge anyone for their own choices.
My choice has not been a easy one - as you said: do you walk away because it is not the same as how you entered or do you stay. I have been with my husband for 19 years and for me, I am not prepared to walk away from this because of sex. A lack of love, yes. A lack of friendship, yes. I personally am not looking 'to connect', to build an online relationship that would turn into an emotional affair (imo this is more harmful to my relationship). I - to put it bluntly - need orgasms, need physical pleasure.
I fully agree that we should be able to say absolutely anything to the person we love without fear however my husband already feels inadequate enough that if I were to say I was meeting my needs with other men online (he knows I use porn etc already) then would that not have a further negative impact on him? so do I suffer, put his needs before my own - indefinitely? Or do I leave a relationship, break a family, because I need sex, not love - sex.
For me none or these are an option. Instead I find short-term pleasure with another, for a short while I feel desirable, for a short while I feel like me. I would love to achieve this without deceit, without fear of hurting another person. I may be viewed as selfish by many, but I would say to anyone to walk a mile in my shoes before judging.
Thank you pffylerhot, for not judging :)
 
Tallulah82 said:
Hi pfflyerhot,

Thank you for not jumping in there and judging - I see that happen here on lit, the judgements made about married people and like you I am not about to judge anyone for their own choices.
My choice has not been a easy one - as you said: do you walk away because it is not the same as how you entered or do you stay. I have been with my husband for 19 years and for me, I am not prepared to walk away from this because of sex. A lack of love, yes. A lack of friendship, yes. I personally am not looking 'to connect', to build an online relationship that would turn into an emotional affair (imo this is more harmful to my relationship). I - to put it bluntly - need orgasms, need physical pleasure.
I fully agree that we should be able to say absolutely anything to the person we love without fear however my husband already feels inadequate enough that if I were to say I was meeting my needs with other men online (he knows I use porn etc already) then would that not have a further negative impact on him? so do I suffer, put his needs before my own - indefinitely? Or do I leave a relationship, break a family, because I need sex, not love - sex.
For me none or these are an option. Instead I find short-term pleasure with another, for a short while I feel desirable, for a short while I feel like me. I would love to achieve this without deceit, without fear of hurting another person. I may be viewed as selfish by many, but I would say to anyone to walk a mile in my shoes before judging.
Thank you pffylerhot, for not judging :)
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^^^^^^ This makes so much sense (to me, anyway!)
 
One of the things that I find sometimes difficult to parse from people's comments is just how blunt they are able to be about the violation of the commitment that comes with denying sex.

I feel as though the general impression in society is that it is incumbent upon the partner wanting more sex to convince the other partner and facilitate a change of view. In particular, as a man we are called upon to be more romantic or attentive or helpful in non-sexual matters (to give her an opportunity to relax and indulge sexual thought).

That is all fair and reasonable. And of course we should always try to go about this in the most constructive ways possible - both because of the love for our spouse and because that is the most effective way.

But it shouldn't be incumbent upon us to convince our partners that sex is part of the marital commitment. In my mind the notion that sex is part of marriage isn't just a "point of view" it is a fact, a commitment you made and part of the reason I married you. I'm not saying sex on demand is part of the deal, but I am saying that no sex for 10 years is a violation of the deal. Put coldly, you are in breach of contract and after ten years the fact that you don't feel like living up to your end of it isn't the point.

Now with that established are you telling me you don't intend to make an effort to live up to your end of the deal. If so, say so explicitly. Don't hide behind your mom or the pope. I didn't marry them. Do you or don't you accept that this is part of the deal? If you do then what will you do about it? If not then you are effectively asking to re-open the terms of our marriage in which case all terms are on the table and I have no intention of living celibate.

If I am the primary bread winner and have a bad stretch of unemployment I expect support and empathy. But if I decide to just sit on the couch in my underwear while the mortgage goes into default, I expect my spouse to challenge me directly and explicitly without any presumption that it is ok for me to just change the parameters of our life together.

Obviously that is all a bit too harsh. But at some point you have to move from convincing to stating explicitly that the commitment has been betrayed and that isn't open for debate.
 
FelicityJohns said:
Apologies, lost track of the thread.

No. I don't have sex with other men. Never been with anyone but him. But I do seek the fun and attention of places like Lit, and he's aware, though I am respectful and don't rub it in his face. I realize how tough a problem it is. We've gone through it together. I sought fucking counseling for HIS problem. He refused to attend. My problem with him is not his ED, it's his unwillingness to address it. That he's given up.

I've given him the path. He chooses not to take it. There's nothing more I can do, except leave him or stay with him. And I've chosen to stay with him, because there's more to us than sex. :rose:
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Thanks for your response. I certainly empathize with your situation. You sound like a take charge kind of gal and I respect that.

However, again you comments draw me back to one thing. Your husband more than likely feels weak and emasculated by his ED. Clearly he could be doing more to address it. But to the extent that you try to help it isn't just a matter of what you do but who you are. There is an enormous risk that by stepping in where he is failing you will further emasculate him in spite of your best intentions.

Instead of seeing your efforts as being to help him he may see them as you trying to get yourself some hard dick (again I totally get that) which highlights his failure to deliver.

Think of it this way. Imagine you are overweight and sensitive about it. Even if joining weight watchers or a gym is the obvious or rational thing to do......for him to go and do it on your behalf then surprise you with the membership stands a very high chance of being poorly received. That isn't because it is irrational but because of what it says about how he regards you. At least that is the way I would feel. I wouldn't think "that is a great idea, thanks." I would think "oh so you think I am fat."
 
SimpleGifts said:
One of the best threads on this, that focused on discussing the issue and not finding an affair partner, was the old Happily Married, Sexually Unfulfilled thread. It got shut down for exceeding the 5K message limit:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=397302

I've been hoping to revive that, and this seems like a good opportunity. We really had many great posts about what it means when other aspects of a marriage seem to be working fine (partnership, parenting, sharing household chores, etc.) but the sex is a big disappointment for one or both parties. (Keep in mind, some spouses are also very upset if their partners are asking for sex TOO often.)

My personal perspective is that dissatisfaction in sex is because one or both parties doesn't really want to have a heart-to-heart talk about what they need in the bedroom--or one will talk about it and the other will then ignore it. That speaks to a lack of intimacy. If you try to talk about something sensitive, that puts you in a vulnerable position...and if you get ignored or slapped down over it, you get hurt. Have that happen enough times, you become very reluctant to "go there" again, and you close up--which is exactly what should NOT be happening in a marriage.

I'm not in the camp that would argue that in all situations, if you're unhappy you should pack up and leave. If there's a chance of working things out, isn't there value in teaching your children that their parents can have a conflict and then resolve it? Is sex SO important that it's worth disrupting the lives of others who aren't directly involved in the relationship? The answer is going to be different for different people.

This loss of intimacy, though, is a bigger issue than sex. Regaining that intimacy once it's lost is very difficult, and may be impossible (and I do have experience in this area). I think that counseling helps, if both parties are open to what the counselor brings to the table. The big danger is that the sexual dissatisfaction will linger and fester and lead to a lack of intimacy and openness in other areas of the relationship, and then things WILL fall apart, most likely in slow motion, leading to more years of frustration and disappointment. That's the greater danger to keep aware of.

And yes, people could easily attack me for not necessarily practicing what I preach. I'm a work in progress like everyone else.

SG
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I actually created the Happily Married, Sexually Unfulfilled thread years ago.

But I'd change the name to Unhappily Married, Sexually Unfulfilled now.

i'm no longer happy with he at all and feel like I've been manipulated and guilted into this marriage. I find her now to be selfish, not a very good parent (she parents by convenience, too focused on what others think and just wanting everything she sees.

She nagged me daily for 6 months while waiting on my job promotion. She also nagged me and screamed at me while I was trying to write my father's eulogy. And when I called her on it, she came into my home office and screamed "Well I guess I'm just the unsympathetic bitch." And there's a host of other things as well -- hidden credit card debt, enabling our kids, undermining my authority with them, making unilateral decisions she knew I didn't agree with, etc. -- that have me leaning toward a divorce in 5 years when my youngest finishes high school.

A man or woman can only take so much and the resentment builds.

And when you tell someone you are unhappy and their first response is "so you would actually leave US. You'd walk out on the kids?" Do you see the manipulation there?

And during an argument last year, i asked her "what have you done for me? name one thing you specifically have done just for me." She began punching the car window and screamed "I've supported your career. I've introduced you to people. I've opened doors for you. I've made connections for you."

That answer told me that I fill a role. I'm a thing. I'm a means to an end. In exchange for everything "she's done for me" (nevermind that I'm the one that did the work and have achieved what I have career wise), I get duty starfish sex.

I will say when I really think of leaving her, I'm elated and almost manic.
 
Tallulah82 said:
Hi pfflyerhot,

Thank you for not jumping in there and judging - I see that happen here on lit, the judgements made about married people and like you I am not about to judge anyone for their own choices.
My choice has not been a easy one - as you said: do you walk away because it is not the same as how you entered or do you stay. I have been with my husband for 19 years and for me, I am not prepared to walk away from this because of sex. A lack of love, yes. A lack of friendship, yes. I personally am not looking 'to connect', to build an online relationship that would turn into an emotional affair (imo this is more harmful to my relationship). I - to put it bluntly - need orgasms, need physical pleasure.
I fully agree that we should be able to say absolutely anything to the person we love without fear however my husband already feels inadequate enough that if I were to say I was meeting my needs with other men online (he knows I use porn etc already) then would that not have a further negative impact on him? so do I suffer, put his needs before my own - indefinitely? Or do I leave a relationship, break a family, because I need sex, not love - sex.
For me none or these are an option. Instead I find short-term pleasure with another, for a short while I feel desirable, for a short while I feel like me. I would love to achieve this without deceit, without fear of hurting another person. I may be viewed as selfish by many, but I would say to anyone to walk a mile in my shoes before judging.
Thank you pffylerhot, for not judging :)
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I am so faced with the same dilemma.
 
policywank said:
Thanks for your response. I certainly empathize with your situation. You sound like a take charge kind of gal and I respect that.

However, again you comments draw me back to one thing. Your husband more than likely feels weak and emasculated by his ED. Clearly he could be doing more to address it. But to the extent that you try to help it isn't just a matter of what you do but who you are. There is an enormous risk that by stepping in where he is failing you will further emasculate him in spite of your best intentions.

Instead of seeing your efforts as being to help him he may see them as you trying to get yourself some hard dick (again I totally get that) which highlights his failure to deliver.

Think of it this way. Imagine you are overweight and sensitive about it. Even if joining weight watchers or a gym is the obvious or rational thing to do......for him to go and do it on your behalf then surprise you with the membership stands a very high chance of being poorly received. That isn't because it is irrational but because of what it says about how he regards you. At least that is the way I would feel. I wouldn't think "that is a great idea, thanks." I would think "oh so you think I am fat."
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Well, if that's the case, and my fears are confirmed that it is indeed 'me and not him' I would thank him to step up and release me from the contract.

My closest friends accuse me of just the opposite. They say that I am too gentle with him, an enabler, of sorts, that I don't stand up for myself for fear of hurting him. The opposite of being an emmasculator.

The fact remains, if he would talk to me about it, any of it, any one part of it, I think we could come to terms that would satisfy us both.

I think I get that you are playing devil's advocate. But I'm not sure you know me well enough to do so. I have my own set of insecurities, and on any given day am pretty well convinced everything is my fault, all the time.

I'm doing the best I can. :rose:
 
I am signing off this thread, and just want to wish each of you all the best in your individual situations. Do what you need to in order to cope and be true to yourself, that's the best advice I can give.

Anyone who would like to talk to me about it, for mutual support, feel free to drop me a PM :rose::heart:
 
jhuson said:
I actually created the Happily Married, Sexually Unfulfilled thread years ago.

But I'd change the name to Unhappily Married, Sexually Unfulfilled now.
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Good to hear from you, jhuson, and glad you're still around...but deeply sorry to hear that you've endured all that for all these years. While I know you want to be the best father that you can be, I also know from other's experiences that you can wait for the right moment, and then that moment doesn't arrive. I wish that these choices were easier, and that there were easier ways to find other ways of coupling and parenting...

SG
 
policywank said:
There is an enormous risk that by stepping in where he is failing you will further emasculate him in spite of your best intentions.

Instead of seeing your efforts as being to help him he may see them as you trying to get yourself some hard dick (again I totally get that) which highlights his failure to deliver.
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I think this incredibly judgmental of you. No one knows the intricacies of another's marriage.

Felicity is not responsible for the happiness of her husband. Only he is. She's only responsible for her own, and therefore can't stop her husband feeling "emasculated" or anything else. She is not responsible to help him, support him or make him feel better. Only he can do that.

There's been a lot of people finding support and understanding on this thread. If you can't support, then keep it to yourself. As far as I can see, Felicity is a kind, caring and loyal person who has been honest with her husband and her marriage and is doing what she needs to do for her own happiness.

And everyone here should do the same. Find what makes you happy, and move towards that goal. But if you're happy judging someone else for the decisions they've made, feel free to go lecture somewhere else.
 
AKentuckyLady said:
I think this incredibly judgmental of you. No one knows the intricacies of another's marriage.

Felicity is not responsible for the happiness of her husband. Only he is. She's only responsible for her own, and therefore can't stop her husband feeling "emasculated" or anything else. She is not responsible to help him, support him or make him feel better. Only he can do that.

There's been a lot of people finding support and understanding on this thread. If you can't support, then keep it to yourself. As far as I can see, Felicity is a kind, caring and loyal person who has been honest with her husband and her marriage and is doing what she needs to do for her own happiness.

And everyone here should do the same. Find what makes you happy, and move towards that goal. But if you're happy judging someone else for the decisions they've made, feel free to go lecture somewhere else.
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And I think you are being incredibly judgemental of what Policywank said. The quote you refer to is highlighting a risk in FelicityJohn's approach.....not making an accusation or putting blame onto her.

And the risk she highlights is bang on correct. No matter how wrong or unproductive I am being in my relations with my wife, her jumping in and trying to fix me will not be well received. Nor will it be helpful to run to friends for succour so they can tell her how right she is and how lucky I am and how bad a man I am for not wanting to let her decide what is best for me.

Like PW I am not saying for a moment that the issue is FJ's fault. Maybe she has tried everything else and it just isn't working. The doesn't change the fact that her approach may not be helping.

And what does it say that she isn't able to hear from others - politely and constructively - that maybe her approach isn't achieving the desired intent?

And the petulant "I am signing off this thread because I didn't get unequivocal support and praise for my approach."? Oh please. If a guy started listing the ways he was trying to fix his woman's sexual dysfunction everyone would be all over him for being an overbearing sexist no matter how legitimate the issue he is trying to address.
 
FelicityJohns said:
Well, if that's the case, and my fears are confirmed that it is indeed 'me and not him' I would thank him to step up and release me from the contract.

My closest friends accuse me of just the opposite. They say that I am too gentle with him, an enabler, of sorts, that I don't stand up for myself for fear of hurting him. The opposite of being an emmasculator.

The fact remains, if he would talk to me about it, any of it, any one part of it, I think we could come to terms that would satisfy us both.

I think I get that you are playing devil's advocate. But I'm not sure you know me well enough to do so. I have my own set of insecurities, and on any given day am pretty well convinced everything is my fault, all the time.

I'm doing the best I can. :rose:
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I am truly sorry if my comments gave offence. There was no intended suggestion that it is you and not him. I think you already established clearly that he has an issue and isn't undertaking to deal with it. You are quite correct that I do not know you well enough to make any conclusions.......I didn't think I had.

I was just trying to get at the point that sometimes even well intended efforts don't achieve the expected result. And if they aren't it can be helpful to try to see it from the other person's point of view. I am sure you have done that by I was just offering one more point of view......that is what we do here.

It has been my generic observation that women don't really know what makes a man tick any more than the other way around. At the risk of opening another can of worms you make reference to how your friends respond. Obviously they know you better than I. But consider what our response would be if the genders were reversed. A man trying to address an issue with his wife and taking his friends' guidance on how to proceed. That may well be excellent advice but assuming those friends are mostly guys we wouldn't naturally assume it to be so. Why would the opposite be different?

And while everyone is mad at me how do you think he would feel if he knew you were discussing his erectile dysfunction with your friends? From a man's point of view a single word astray or sideways glance from those people that gives him the slightest hint that they know is like a kick in the balls x100.
 
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