How does a non resident get constitutional rights?
Get rid of paying for them and the "emergency" room visits for Juans runny nose or his kidney transplant and the price goes way down for true citizens.
TANSTAAFL (socialization of healthcare)
- Thread starter trysail
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How does a non resident get constitutional rights?
Get rid of paying for them and the "emergency" room visits for Juans runny nose or his kidney transplant and the price goes way down for true citizens.
SpeareChucker
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Are you kidding?
We'll save so much that not only will it pay for itself, but hospital lunches will be on the house (and you won't even have to buy drinks [a Heinlein reference]).
cowslinger64
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Wrong again. I've had Healthcare my entire adult, while in the military and through my union since.
You'll have to snipe better than that.
Where do you get your health care from?
How many of you whiny bitches are on some sort of gubmint plan?
trysail
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Original article by Mark J. Perry, Ph.D.
(excerpted and edited by trysail)
"...During the most recent 21-year period from January 1998 to December 2018, the CPI for All Items increased by exactly 56.0% and the chart displays the relative price increases over that time period for 14 selected consumer goods and services, and for average hourly earnings (wages). Seven of those goods and services have increased more than average inflation, led by hospital services (+211%), college tuition (+183.8%), and college textbooks (+183.6%). Average wages have also increased more than average inflation since January 1998, by 80.2%, indicating an increase in real wages over the last several decades.
The other seven price series have declined since January 1998, led by TVs (-97%), toys (-74%), software (-68%) and cell phone service (-53%). The CPI series for new cars, household furnishings (furniture, appliances, window coverings, lamps, dishes, etc.) and clothing have remained relatively flat for the last 21 years while average prices have increased by 56% and wages increased 80.2%.
Various observations that have been made about the huge divergence in price patterns over the last several decades include:
a. The greater (lower) the degree of government involvement in the provision of a good or service the greater (lower) the price increases (decreases) over time, e.g., hospital and medical costs, college tuition, childcare with both large degrees of government funding/regulation and large price increases vs. software, electronics, toys, cars and clothing with both relatively less government funding/regulation and falling prices.
c. The greater the degree of international competition for tradeable goods, the greater the decline in prices over time, e.g., toys, clothing, TVs, appliances, furniture, footwear, etc..."
The other seven price series have declined since January 1998, led by TVs (-97%), toys (-74%), software (-68%) and cell phone service (-53%). The CPI series for new cars, household furnishings (furniture, appliances, window coverings, lamps, dishes, etc.) and clothing have remained relatively flat for the last 21 years while average prices have increased by 56% and wages increased 80.2%.
Various observations that have been made about the huge divergence in price patterns over the last several decades include:
a. The greater (lower) the degree of government involvement in the provision of a good or service the greater (lower) the price increases (decreases) over time, e.g., hospital and medical costs, college tuition, childcare with both large degrees of government funding/regulation and large price increases vs. software, electronics, toys, cars and clothing with both relatively less government funding/regulation and falling prices.
Blue lines = prices subject to free market forces.
Red lines = prices subject to regulatory capture by government. Food and drink is debatable either way.
Conclusion: remind me why socialism is so great again.
b. Prices for manufactured goods (cars, clothing, appliances, furniture, electronic goods, toys) have experienced large price declines over time relative to overall inflation, wages, and prices for services (education, medical care, and childcare).Red lines = prices subject to regulatory capture by government. Food and drink is debatable either way.
Conclusion: remind me why socialism is so great again.
c. The greater the degree of international competition for tradeable goods, the greater the decline in prices over time, e.g., toys, clothing, TVs, appliances, furniture, footwear, etc..."
silver gurl
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It is a right here. We aren't broke yet. The US legs behind the rest of the world with healthcare. Complete greed.
trysail
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I suppose that's why Canadians with serious health problems travel to the U.S. for treatment.
Original article by Mark J. Perry, Ph.D.
(excerpted and edited by trysail)
"...During the most recent 21-year period from January 1998 to December 2018, the CPI for All Items increased by exactly 56.0% and the chart displays the relative price increases over that time period for 14 selected consumer goods and services, and for average hourly earnings (wages). Seven of those goods and services have increased more than average inflation, led by hospital services (+211%), college tuition (+183.8%), and college textbooks (+183.6%). Average wages have also increased more than average inflation since January 1998, by 80.2%, indicating an increase in real wages over the last several decades.
The other seven price series have declined since January 1998, led by TVs (-97%), toys (-74%), software (-68%) and cell phone service (-53%). The CPI series for new cars, household furnishings (furniture, appliances, window coverings, lamps, dishes, etc.) and clothing have remained relatively flat for the last 21 years while average prices have increased by 56% and wages increased 80.2%.
Various observations that have been made about the huge divergence in price patterns over the last several decades include:
a. The greater (lower) the degree of government involvement in the provision of a good or service the greater (lower) the price increases (decreases) over time, e.g., hospital and medical costs, college tuition, childcare with both large degrees of government funding/regulation and large price increases vs. software, electronics, toys, cars and clothing with both relatively less government funding/regulation and falling prices.
c. The greater the degree of international competition for tradeable goods, the greater the decline in prices over time, e.g., toys, clothing, TVs, appliances, furniture, footwear, etc..."
The other seven price series have declined since January 1998, led by TVs (-97%), toys (-74%), software (-68%) and cell phone service (-53%). The CPI series for new cars, household furnishings (furniture, appliances, window coverings, lamps, dishes, etc.) and clothing have remained relatively flat for the last 21 years while average prices have increased by 56% and wages increased 80.2%.
Various observations that have been made about the huge divergence in price patterns over the last several decades include:
a. The greater (lower) the degree of government involvement in the provision of a good or service the greater (lower) the price increases (decreases) over time, e.g., hospital and medical costs, college tuition, childcare with both large degrees of government funding/regulation and large price increases vs. software, electronics, toys, cars and clothing with both relatively less government funding/regulation and falling prices.
Blue lines = prices subject to free market forces.
Red lines = prices subject to regulatory capture by government. Food and drink is debatable either way.
Conclusion: remind me why socialism is so great again.
b. Prices for manufactured goods (cars, clothing, appliances, furniture, electronic goods, toys) have experienced large price declines over time relative to overall inflation, wages, and prices for services (education, medical care, and childcare).Red lines = prices subject to regulatory capture by government. Food and drink is debatable either way.
Conclusion: remind me why socialism is so great again.
c. The greater the degree of international competition for tradeable goods, the greater the decline in prices over time, e.g., toys, clothing, TVs, appliances, furniture, footwear, etc..."
Last edited:
Wrong Element
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Liar
now with 17% more class
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trysail
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Arbitrage and price shopping.
If Canadian taxpayers want to save him money by subsidizing the cost, why not take advantage of Canada?
The rest of the world takes advantage of U.S. drug companies forcing U.S. consumers to pay the cost of U.S. drug company R&D expenditures (which are around 20% of drug company revenues— far in excess of the profits).
If Canadian taxpayers want to save him money by subsidizing the cost, why not take advantage of Canada?
The rest of the world takes advantage of U.S. drug companies forcing U.S. consumers to pay the cost of U.S. drug company R&D expenditures (which are around 20% of drug company revenues— far in excess of the profits).
Hal9000_
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And yet you are able to hold a conversation without resorting to childish name calling. Or parroting old disproven propaganda points.
What is the actual reason for our insane healthcare costs? Illegals? No. Too many regulations? No.
Corporate GREED? Bingo!
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...n-of-corporategreed-jfm-1000103.php?aid=66253
"‘Corporate greed’; these are the two words that can best describe what ails US healthcare today. That is the reason US healthcare is least efficient among eleven developed, industrialized nations [1]. This is despite the fact that we spend close to $ 2.9 trillion dollars every year, around 18% of the GDP, and about $9,255 per person each year, significantly more than any other country. Increasing cost of healthcare and corporate greed are best reflected in a recent report of Turing Pharmaceuticals increasing the price of its recently acquired drug Daraprim, brand name of pyrimethamine, which is an important drug to treat rare opportunistic Toxoplasmosis infection in HIV patients, from $13.50 to $750.00 per tablet [2]. This news created a furor among the public and lawmakers."
contrifan32
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trysail
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Thank the ambulance chasers for duplicative, inefficient and defensive medicine.
...and how much was spent on R&D? ...and how much was spent on shepherding new drugs through the FDA?
...and what percentage of novel compounds make it from the lab through clinical trials designed to test for safety and efficacy?
Do you think the process of new drug discovery is free and without risk?
Hal9000_
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Same old disproven hogwash.
How much do the taxpayers spend on new drug development through the NIH?
https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/YourMoney/story?id=129651
trysail
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If it's valuable intellectual property. NIH should charge for it (as, god knows, the universities figured out many, many years ago). Many universities have full-time, dedicated technology and intellectual property commercialization departments. Harvard, Johns Hopkins and many others have made, and continue to make, enormous amounts of money from royalties and fees.
SalviaDivinorum
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That a serious pandemic is unlikely is not really the issue as I see it. The mutated Ebola virus - or whatever it might be - is a huge unknown by its very nature and has more in common with natural disasters than the day to day predictable patterns that the health professionals, governments and even the private sector plan around.
Let's just hope the Ebola virus takes its time mutating.
I guess I'm an ideologue too, because I don't mind paying for the medical care that my neighbour needs, regardless if s/he has paid a lifetime's worth of taxes and NI contributions or not. There are very few people who have never contributed anything and the cost of covering them is really tiny in any western government's healthcare budget. I don't believe that guaranteeing medical care for those who need it equals making someone's personal shit public.
The commercial interests behind keeping the status quo in the US are very strong. Healthcare is (for now) a license to print money, so it's not surprising the insurance companies are going all out defending their golden goose.
The image below is huge, but it shows that the public cost of healthcare in the US is greater than anywhere else, so you do need to fix your system.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...00px-Healthcare_costs_to_GDP_OECD_2015_v1.png
The worst thing about this issue is that things are going to get harder very soon.
The cost of medication is sky rocketing and the type of medication on offer is changing. Pharmaceuticals no longer look for cures - they aim to find therapies that manage the illness, the way diabetes and HIV/AIDS are managed. More and more pharmaceutical therapies are based on the principle that the patient will have to take the "cure" for the rest of their lives. That would be ok if the cost of these therapies were affordable, but they are really expensive. They might soon become prohibitively expensive for both privately and publicly insured systems. That is scary.
I don’t know, do they? Here in the UK you get medical treatment if you have a NI number or (for the time being) if you have a European health insurance card. Anybody else will receive emergency care only, although many GPs will treat an uninsured person for a non urgent issue, out of compassion.
I tend to disbelieve your suggestion that treating uninsured people is the cause of your high health costs in the US - I'm sure there is a cost, but suspect it is in relative line with costs everywhere else.
When it comes to medical bankruptcies, "Juan" would most likely go back to where he lives and would therefore not be declared bankrupt. Those bankruptcies happen to ordinary Americans, most of whom have medical insurance. Medical bankruptcies are unheard of here.
trysail
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The continuing rise in the cost of healthcare is due to absence of meaningful price signals, as well as limited opportunities for productivity improvement.
Throw in a mob of ambulance chasers advertising on television 24/7 that they'll get you the money "...You're entitled to" and you have the perfect storm for runaway costs, duplicative, inefficient and defensive medicine.
As long as I live, I will never forget my 19-year old classmate stating that he wanted to be a physician because, "When people are sick, they don't ask, 'How much?' "
_______________________
"If something can't go on forever...
it won't."
-Herb Stein
Original article by Mark J. Perry, Ph.D.
(excerpted and edited by trysail)
"...During the most recent 21-year period from January 1998 to December 2018, the CPI for All Items increased by exactly 56.0% and the chart displays the relative price increases over that time period for 14 selected consumer goods and services, and for average hourly earnings (wages). Seven of those goods and services have increased more than average inflation, led by hospital services (+211%), college tuition (+183.8%), and college textbooks (+183.6%). Average wages have also increased more than average inflation since January 1998, by 80.2%, indicating an increase in real wages over the last several decades.
The other seven price series have declined since January 1998, led by TVs (-97%), toys (-74%), software (-68%) and cell phone service (-53%). The CPI series for new cars, household furnishings (furniture, appliances, window coverings, lamps, dishes, etc.) and clothing have remained relatively flat for the last 21 years while average prices have increased by 56% and wages increased 80.2%.
Various observations that have been made about the huge divergence in price patterns over the last several decades include:
a. The greater (lower) the degree of government involvement in the provision of a good or service the greater (lower) the price increases (decreases) over time, e.g., hospital and medical costs, college tuition, childcare with both large degrees of government funding/regulation and large price increases vs. software, electronics, toys, cars and clothing with both relatively less government funding/regulation and falling prices.
c. The greater the degree of international competition for tradeable goods, the greater the decline in prices over time, e.g., toys, clothing, TVs, appliances, furniture, footwear, etc..."
The other seven price series have declined since January 1998, led by TVs (-97%), toys (-74%), software (-68%) and cell phone service (-53%). The CPI series for new cars, household furnishings (furniture, appliances, window coverings, lamps, dishes, etc.) and clothing have remained relatively flat for the last 21 years while average prices have increased by 56% and wages increased 80.2%.
Various observations that have been made about the huge divergence in price patterns over the last several decades include:
a. The greater (lower) the degree of government involvement in the provision of a good or service the greater (lower) the price increases (decreases) over time, e.g., hospital and medical costs, college tuition, childcare with both large degrees of government funding/regulation and large price increases vs. software, electronics, toys, cars and clothing with both relatively less government funding/regulation and falling prices.
Blue lines = prices subject to free market forces.
Red lines = prices subject to regulatory capture by government. Food and drink is debatable either way.
Conclusion: remind me why socialism is so great again.
b. Prices for manufactured goods (cars, clothing, appliances, furniture, electronic goods, toys) have experienced large price declines over time relative to overall inflation, wages, and prices for services (education, medical care, and childcare).Red lines = prices subject to regulatory capture by government. Food and drink is debatable either way.
Conclusion: remind me why socialism is so great again.
c. The greater the degree of international competition for tradeable goods, the greater the decline in prices over time, e.g., toys, clothing, TVs, appliances, furniture, footwear, etc..."
KimGordon67
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Pretty much this.
The reason 'voluntary insurance' doesn't work is because (a) a heap of people think they won't need it, so won't voluntarily pay - people are notoriously bad at anticipating what they'll need at some point in the future; (b) a lot of people who live on the poverty line have to make decisions every day prioritising their spending. If they were forced to choose between 'voluntary' health insurance and putting dinner on the table, it's not rocket surgery to see what choice most people would make. (My understanding is that this is a large part of the reason so many Americans don't have health insurance - it's a perfectly rational decision in the situations in which they live.)
I really don't know what you're all afraid of. The countries listed above that have a state-funded healthcare system haven't disintegrated. Obviously we know it's not 'free' - it's blindingly obvious it's paid for by taxes, and here health is the biggest (or maybe one of the biggest three - it's been a while since I looked at the figures) state expenditures.
As far as I can tell, the main American argument is 'why should I pay for someone else's healthcare?'. No one here complains about 'paying for other people's healthcare', because they know that other people are paying for their healthcare - and it's generally pretty good healthcare. (OK, some people do complain, but they complain about pretty much every single tax under the sun. They're far from the majority though - every single government, regardless of their political stripe, spends around the same amount on healthcare, and none of them would dream of dropping that. Welfare - sure. Healthcare - definitely not.)
BotanyBoy
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Then they are fucked.....fuck em.
The smart people who paid in get covered.
EVERYONE wins.
How is that not working?
Too much freedom for the control freaks to bare???
KimGordon67
Rampant feminist
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Then they are fucked.....fuck em.
The smart people who paid in get covered.
EVERYONE wins.
How is that not working?
Too much freedom for the control freaks to bare???
I guess if the health of the nation isn't a priority for you, then sure. Personally, I would have thought that as a died-in-the-wool capitalist, you'd understand that a healthy (and educated) workforce is actually an economic benefit. But if you're OK with swathes of minimum wage workers not turning up to work on a regular basis, then sweet. (And yes, I know there's a large pool of replacements - but that particular pit ain't bottomless ... especially once you wall off the main supply chain.)
As someone noted above, it is kind of ironic that you'll happily fund 'a' wall (and all it's related paraphernalia) to 'keep America safe', but you're violently opposed to funding a system that would keep America healthy.
BotanyBoy
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The nation is an idea, an actual social construct.
Not the personal health of any particular individual.
A healthy USA is one that's not unduly oppressing it's people, securing their individual rights and striving to maximize opportunities for all of it's citizens WITHOUT fucking any other group of citizens out of their happiness to get it.
I don't think a USA that oppressively taxes it's people and stifles their ability to pursue their happiness by trying to micromanage their lives, is a healthy USA.
I do, that's why I don't hire un-healthy looking or high risk employees.
I hire people who look like they take care of their shit.
See though a major part of capitalism is that its' based on the concept of free choice....it's a voluntary exchange.
Thus the ideological opposition to forcing people to buy insurance or any commodity/services really that aren't necessary for the nation state itself to do it's job of securing the rights of the people.
From the liberal/capitalist perspective if people don't want to take care of their health? It shouldn't become everyone else's problem....let them suffer the consequences of their life choices. It should not be the governments job to forcefully make everyone else suffer with them because they smoked 2 packs a day for 30 years or whatever.
Yea it is....because those same kinda poor decision making minimum wage folks?
They also have very high rates of baby making, and most their kids will be just like them.
And if not? With that supply chain walled off? Labor prices will go up.
That's because they've never taken a US history or civics class and never read the Constitution.
It is EXPLICITLY the governments job to physically secure the USA, the rights of it's citizens and ensure tranquility....that means homeland security, military, cops and courts.
It is NOT the governments job to make everyone suffer everyone else's shit life/economic choices equally by force....that's anti-American commie shit.
Now...that being said if we got together and equally funded (everyone pays the same %....EVERYONE) public hospitals/clinics that everyone could use and didn't compete with or have any say so over private HC more in line with social liberalism instead of a socialistic wealth redistribution program?
You could call that a civil service and it would work without being anti-American.
But it will require the bottom 50% to come up off their lb of flesh too....poor and minimum wage? Still need to pay your fair share and give up 30% of that paycheck.
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KimGordon67
Rampant feminist
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The construct of 'the nation' is primarily composed of the humans that are citizens of that construct - it has no meaning beyond the people within it. Who's safety are you protecting 'the wall', if not the safety of the individuals within the borders of the nation. Even you say it's securing 'the rights of it's citizens' - who are they, if not the individuals who occupy the nation?
You guys already have a higher tax rate than us (source) ... clearly it is possible to provide adequate state-funded healthcare without 'oppressively taxing' the population.
It's a disgusting ambulance-chasing industry.
As much as I'm more conservative myself,I fail to see BB's point when he's defending them: "You're envious” etc etc
I was unwise to not insure my dog, so now I'm paying though my ears.
They have no clue what's wrong with him, he’s getting worse despite all the investigations and treatments, ,yet I’m still paying 180. for every 15 minutes "assessment", nevermind the oxygen and investigations.
I can’t blame the doctors, his symptoms are atypical and they’re just employees and a cog in the system.
It’s a callous ‘for profit’ industry that is gleefully making money out of every minute spent, even when they fail to deliver.
They probably just hate pakis.
BotanyBoy
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No.
The construct is the ideas in the Constitution.
It's what makes us different from other nations.
I know...and that shit along with "progressive" taxation needs to come to a stop.
The bottom 50% needs to start paying their fair share.
No, it's not.
Forcing someone to pay for other peoples stupidity and fuck ups in life is oppressive and un-American in principal....the dollar amount is 100% irrelevant.
Emerson40
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Big pharma spends over 20 billion annually to schmooze, charm, and persuade doctors and medical professionals to use prescription meds.
Throw another 6 billion a year on advertising prescription meds.
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