Perhaps... something for me to think about anyway...
The Official Author's Hangout Winter Holidays 2012 Contest Support Thread
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Perhaps... something for me to think about anyway...
lovecraft68
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To your first part, simple difference of opinion. Revisiting existing people/premises for a contest is a bit of a cop out. Again, my opinion.
Second part, well if it sucked before not sure why you would try again, but maybe at that point the author likes the characters.
But if it had some success, then the author is now bringing a "fan base" to the next installment.
sr71plt
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It takes skill and is an interesting exercise to use characters from previous stories in later ones. I often have characters appear from another story. It's an added "interest point" for regular readers of my work, as it is if I include even essentially the same scene or setting as I've used before, except seen from a different perspective and set in a story with a different theme. Since I'm using them like I would any new character or new scene in a different standalone story, they don't intrude on the reading by readers who haven't read the earlier stories. The latter is what makes them standalone stories. They don't require any preknowledge on anything from previous stories.
A few winters ago I entered four stories like this in the contest. No one gave a peep about it. It would be denying creativity in writing to not allow this--it, in fact, isn't permitted in the survivor contest, I don't think, and it's one of the reasons that I've said that, in terms of developing a writer, the survivor contest here is more harmful than helpful. It rewards quantity over quality and does nothing to promote better writing, plotting, or character construction.
A few winters ago I entered four stories like this in the contest. No one gave a peep about it. It would be denying creativity in writing to not allow this--it, in fact, isn't permitted in the survivor contest, I don't think, and it's one of the reasons that I've said that, in terms of developing a writer, the survivor contest here is more harmful than helpful. It rewards quantity over quality and does nothing to promote better writing, plotting, or character construction.
Darkniciad
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Fucking work...
I'm probably going to squeak in at the last minute. On my normal work schedule, I'd have finished this story last week. Lucky if I manage 500 words every couple of days as it is.
Thank heavens I knocked out a good portion of it back before my schedule went stupid, and that I had pre-scheduled a bunch of days off.
That's exactly what I do with mine. The main characters that the story focuses on are never the same ones as previous stories. Characters from previous stories usually appear, but they're peripheral characters with minor roles. I could often replace them with Joe Schmoe, or at least a previously unknown person in my world setting. I took even greater pains with this when the chapter rule was introduced.
They're there for the people who have read all the stories, to smile at seeing a familiar face, or for people who will go back and read the stories where those cameo characters were the stars.
The end result each and every time has been a sharp spike in votes, views, etc. on previous stories. It's proven to be one of the most effective means of hooking new readers and getting them to go through my back catalogue.
I'm probably going to squeak in at the last minute. On my normal work schedule, I'd have finished this story last week. Lucky if I manage 500 words every couple of days as it is.
Thank heavens I knocked out a good portion of it back before my schedule went stupid, and that I had pre-scheduled a bunch of days off.
That's exactly what I do with mine. The main characters that the story focuses on are never the same ones as previous stories. Characters from previous stories usually appear, but they're peripheral characters with minor roles. I could often replace them with Joe Schmoe, or at least a previously unknown person in my world setting. I took even greater pains with this when the chapter rule was introduced.
They're there for the people who have read all the stories, to smile at seeing a familiar face, or for people who will go back and read the stories where those cameo characters were the stars.
The end result each and every time has been a sharp spike in votes, views, etc. on previous stories. It's proven to be one of the most effective means of hooking new readers and getting them to go through my back catalogue.
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PennLady
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How is it a cop out when you have a new and different idea for those characters that you haven't addressed before?
Actually, I meant what if the new story sucked, even if the original story didn't.
Isn't the author doing that, or possibly doing that, just by being the author? We've all talked about name recognition from time to time, and how readers will find you, etc. Many of us, no doubt, have had people say things to the effect of "Glad to see something new from you," which indicates we have some fans. If bringing a "fan base" to the contest is a problem, then should we all submit anonymously?
lovecraft68
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All I'm saying is in contests the word original should be what is focused on. You can write about your "favs" all year long. There are 6 themed contests and the point of a contest with a theme is to stretch yourself as an author.
I tie a lot of my "random" stories together, by featuring a character previously used or mentioning something that happened in another story. I consider them "in jokes" and like to see if anyone catches them.
Being raised on comic books I also like the idea of a "crossover" good for ratings as well.
But in a contest I think its about doing something different not "Okay Bill and Kate do V-day then nude day then earth day, then Halloween.
Darkniciad
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It's not a bad idea, but so many people would work around it ( especially in the age of Twitter, Facebook, Tumbler, etc. ) that it would be almost pointless to try to run a contest anonymous.
You could make the argument that someone who writes a lot of incest shouldn't be allowed to write incest in a contest, because they're bringing their fanbase. Or maybe they're not allowed to write anything romantic because they write a lot of romances. Casual sex only for you in a contest!
It goes on and on. The only people who aren't bringing a fanbase to the table are those posting their first story to a contest. Even if you write something completely different than what you usually write, you're still bringing your fanbase to the table.
That's what makes them fans.
lovecraft68
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But to me, something like this isn't all about fans, its about me/you as an author.
After making a "name" for myself in incest, I made it a point to avoid it in the first three contests I'd entered to see what happened.
I can tell you by vote totals, my fan base did not follow me. I think I hit the average for each category I entered.
For summer lovin I went back to incest and landed a 2k vote story. The incest fans really do like to keep it in the family.
PennLady
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Not necessarily. The point might just be to write a story you think will win. Every time I "stretch" and try something different, I usually get lower ratings, even when I think the story is one of my better efforts.
But why? Why can't you have characters in standalone stories embarking on different adventures and story lines? All I've gotten from you so far is you don't like it, but that's not a solid reason why it should against the rules.
I wasn't advocating it, just wondering.
Yes, indeed.
Darkniciad
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What it all boils down to is that if you're writing in Lit contests with a goal of winning, you're going to be disappointed far more often that not by the simple laws of mathematics, and likely end up not enjoying the experience -- at best.
If you're writing for the real, tangible benefits that are open and equal to everyone -- fast posting, top billing on the new story list, longer exposure on the contest page -- you're rarely if ever going to be disappointed with the results.
Then if you do win, it's just icing on the cake of an already positive experience.
If you're writing for the real, tangible benefits that are open and equal to everyone -- fast posting, top billing on the new story list, longer exposure on the contest page -- you're rarely if ever going to be disappointed with the results.
Then if you do win, it's just icing on the cake of an already positive experience.
scouries
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… fast posting, top billing on the new story list, longer exposure on the contest page -- you're rarely if ever going to be disappointed with the results…Then if you do win, it's just icing on the cake of an already positive experience.
Icing on the cake? Gimmee a break!
isn’t LAUREL overdoing this icing on the cake thing a bit?
Here's the real deal: If you win with a recycled story (same plot, location, characters, cut-and-paste) that wins even though it was the least read and voted on story in a contest that supposedly is decided by our readers then your name is darkboy
isn’t LAUREL overdoing this icing on the cake thing a bit?
Here's the real deal: If you win with a recycled story (same plot, location, characters, cut-and-paste) that wins even though it was the least read and voted on story in a contest that supposedly is decided by our readers then your name is darkboy
sr71plt
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I think I hear some petty whining in the background. God, this is just a Web site social exercise. It's not like it's a real contest based on story quality. Just stop whining and play for fun or realize that you are over the top in "little world" ambition in taking a mostly meaningless contest so competitively seriously. Sound just like Scouries whining. But I'm not surprised about that. 
This reintroduction of characters and settings --and even themes--across your stories is actually higher level writing. If you can't do it, just stay under your own writing horizons and let those with more talent, creativity, and imagination play through. It's not like contest readers are going to take this much into account.
And, yes, a real contest would somehow be blind judging--which wouldn't be possible by letting anyone but independent judges do the judging. Authors here would just PM around which story(ies) were theirs. It's clear that cheating is as rampant as the system allows--or there wouldn't be massive vote scrubbing.
This reintroduction of characters and settings --and even themes--across your stories is actually higher level writing. If you can't do it, just stay under your own writing horizons and let those with more talent, creativity, and imagination play through. It's not like contest readers are going to take this much into account.
And, yes, a real contest would somehow be blind judging--which wouldn't be possible by letting anyone but independent judges do the judging. Authors here would just PM around which story(ies) were theirs. It's clear that cheating is as rampant as the system allows--or there wouldn't be massive vote scrubbing.
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TxRad
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This message is hidden because scouries is on your ignore list.
And i imagine the biggest whiner of all is still stirring the pot.
Like SR said, quit taking this shit seriously. If you win, you win. If you don't, at least try and have some fun at it.
The old Last Place trophy was a way of poking fun at ourselves. I don't think many of the new people around would find it funny. They take things way to seriously.
And i imagine the biggest whiner of all is still stirring the pot.
Like SR said, quit taking this shit seriously. If you win, you win. If you don't, at least try and have some fun at it.
The old Last Place trophy was a way of poking fun at ourselves. I don't think many of the new people around would find it funny. They take things way to seriously.
Darkniciad
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I managed to snag that just once, on a story I'm perfectly happy with and re-read on a fairly regular basis.
The competition for last place used to be far more ( jokingly ) fierce than anything the main contest generated.
voluptuary_manque
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Heck yeah! I don't enter to win, just to attract attention. Maybe the people who like my contest stories will go look at my other ones and vote for them, too. I'm always surprised when a 'near miss' suddenly sprouts a red 'H'. Pleased, too.
Belongs2Beth
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This a lot of rancor for three stories that are so unlikely to actually win that you would think that smeone of Lovecraft's stature would just ignore them. I must be doing something right because I am pissng off big shots. Either that or the big shot in question feels the need to elevate himself by trashing the efforts of beginners.
I'd take my stories out of contention right now except I don't think cyberbullies deserve to get their way. I think Mr. Lovecraft is little better than Scouries in this respect. Don't worry Lovecraft, I won't challenge you with my serial fiction in the future. These contests aren't worth the bullshit. Sir, you may be a superior writer, but you clearly are a supreme asshole.
I'd take my stories out of contention right now except I don't think cyberbullies deserve to get their way. I think Mr. Lovecraft is little better than Scouries in this respect. Don't worry Lovecraft, I won't challenge you with my serial fiction in the future. These contests aren't worth the bullshit. Sir, you may be a superior writer, but you clearly are a supreme asshole.
Wow. This thread started with me taking hell from sticking my neck out and defending an idea of LC's. Now it turns to him going after my husband. Last time I bother doing anything like that for the cutthroats around here. Laurel saw fit to put them all in the contest as separate and equally qualified entries. That is all that should matter and be the end of the discussion. As he said, funny that you seem so threatened by a beginner being able to carry over an audience from one story to another.
Honestly though this thread, and pretty much this entire forum, has turned into nothing more than a handful of men showing off who has the biggest fucking dick. And I'm tired of it. Like 95% of the authors on this site I think I will stick to writing for my readers and stop wasting time on petty squabbles and bullshit. To those of you who have helped, supported and encouraged me I thank you. The rest of y'all can suck it.
Honestly though this thread, and pretty much this entire forum, has turned into nothing more than a handful of men showing off who has the biggest fucking dick. And I'm tired of it. Like 95% of the authors on this site I think I will stick to writing for my readers and stop wasting time on petty squabbles and bullshit. To those of you who have helped, supported and encouraged me I thank you. The rest of y'all can suck it.
There are more new holiday stories posted today (Wed) than there were for the opening first two days of the contest....I guess people want their stories up closer to Christmas.
Anyway, I'll have my last story up on Friday. I'm kind of nervous about it because it's different than what I usually do, and I'm having mixed feelings about the quality of the story. Oh well. Every story is a risk.
Good luck to everyone in the last few days getting their stories done.
Anyway, I'll have my last story up on Friday. I'm kind of nervous about it because it's different than what I usually do, and I'm having mixed feelings about the quality of the story. Oh well. Every story is a risk.
Good luck to everyone in the last few days getting their stories done.
sirhugs
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New Story Up
Probably not a good idea experimenting with interracial in a contest:
New Year's Chocolate Martini
Probably not a good idea experimenting with interracial in a contest:
New Year's Chocolate Martini
lovecraft68
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Who said anything about winning?
I'm discussing the "chapter" rule.
As someone else said, when there are 90 or so entries odds are you're not winning.
Add to that trolls and an imperfect voting system along with other games, odds aren't in your favor.
But, having said that "its not about winning" is not an attitude I enter anything with.
I'm not saying a person is a loser for losing, but starting anything with, "I know I can't ever win but.... is a loser mentality.
Most people enter with at least a hope of winning.
I've never set out to lose anything, I sure as well don;t always win everything, but the day I decide I've lost before I enter then its not worth entering, that goes for anything.
But why not just get to the real point here. Its not about winning losing or whining, its about having the audacity to talk about a rule and what defines "original.
So as always the "big three" have to come out swinging. You, Pilot and Dark think you run this site.
At least PL whether she agrees or not always remains unbiased
Try it sometime
TxRad
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In the end, you can bitch, whine, moan or whatever, but it still comes down to who approves the stories. If ya got a problem with it, go talk to the site owner. I'm through talking to a closed mind on this subject.
Darkniciad
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This is what comes of the forum having no moderator. When there are zero consequences for acting like a complete ass, it encourages more of the same, attracts other assholes, and frustrates everyone else to the point that the whole place goes to hell.
Slap anyone who irritates you on ignore and hope nobody quotes them. The steadily growing number of jerks pretty much own the place, so it's the only option on the forum.
Don't give up on writing stories for the contests, either. As Beth said, most authors don't come here, and even fewer readers do. The crap that goes on here doesn't really matter. If you can send it off to the la-la land of ignore, you can keep participating and enjoying yourself.
Slap anyone who irritates you on ignore and hope nobody quotes them. The steadily growing number of jerks pretty much own the place, so it's the only option on the forum.
Don't give up on writing stories for the contests, either. As Beth said, most authors don't come here, and even fewer readers do. The crap that goes on here doesn't really matter. If you can send it off to the la-la land of ignore, you can keep participating and enjoying yourself.
theravenfox
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scouries
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I love this little girl. An ex-nun ... an A.I.R. Special Prize winner ... a voice of an angel ... and a slut... hoarse and raspy and lusty one sentence ... but sweet and innocent the next! Listen to this girls work today!
Welcome back!
As for darkboy and his chapter/serial/ immediate sequel/run on/stand alone bullshit he of all people remembers the who, what and why of the rules enactment. And he was all for it until he started to break it...
A judged contest where an author can turn off voting? Sure says our db.
Is it fair that certain categories have an unfair advantage? Sure says our db.
Least read stories should win a contest? Of course says our db.
Let an author edit a story in the middle of the contest but still keep all votes? Sure says our db.
And no one should be abble to discuss these rules because I said so, our db adds.
So now he wants a moderator
. An honest discussion of the contest rules requires a moderator? And I just suppose he believes he'd make a perfect moderator . What he, and his pals really want is no discussion. They want a dictatorship. And they want to be the dictators...
sr71plt
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You pretty much "win" just by entering the contest. A contest story is listed at the top of the New list (my observation on my own stories that get posted near the top is that they get more reader attention there; your mileage may vary). It also is listed on a separate, special list, where it remains visible throughout the contest. Although your mileage may vary, I always get more reads across my story file, including way back in the file, and more author and story "favorite" votes and more e-mail comments during a contest when I have stories entered. So, just entering a story is an immediate "win."
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