Hard to read high multi chaptered stories

jaF0 said:

6-9,000 words about chokin' a chicken?


Ya' gotta be shittin'!!!!

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It must have been a big cock!

Stories leave room for many diversions. My relative the mainstream author is an SCA costume freak and often includes great details of period dress in her books. Ian Fleming wrote six-page accounts of 007's dining. (That's a few thousand words.) In a series about a photographer, I wrote much about togging. And some LIT authors rant about hot cars.

Sometimes "They ate lunch," or "They fucked," or even a hint, is enough. But more could be happening there. "It was a nice orgy" demands fleshing-out.

I've found that writing multi-chaptered stories can be harder than reading them! I have at least three, if not more, multi-chaptered stories on here (not including a couple of single chapters that are intended to have follow ups) and I find now that if I don't write them all one after the other, they just don't get written!

Now maybe that's a (negative) comment on my own work, I don't know, but that's how it seems to be for me. Sometimes too, what goes on IRL gets in the way of the writing and it can be next to impossible to get back into a particular 'vibe'; that's happened for at least one of my stories, so now I prefer to write and try to edit/crop later.

As you can tell, though, I won't use one word when ten will do!

The longer stories that I have enjoy tend to be character driven with the sex scenes not being the focal point. Some of my favorite lit stories are ten plus pages, but I will say I tend to check ratings of later chapters before starting the first, gives me some reassurance that the story does not go off the rails.

MelissaBaby said:

I could probably chop several thousand words from my series if I just said "They ate dinner" instead of always feeling compelled to tell the readers what they ate.

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Alternatively don’t have them eat at all. Then they wouldn’t become obese. Scored two with one decision. Yeah!

MelissaBaby said:

In my current series, I plan to follow the character's relationship through their lifetimes. I think that as they age, they will struggle to find ways to keep the sexual part of their lives fresh and interesting. It seems fair, because that's what we creators do all the time.

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I haven’t read the last three chapters of Mary and Alvin and I must admit I feel guilty about it because I’ve been enjoying it as I enjoyed Fall and Rise. I thought it was going to meander along but if you are going to continue over the next twenty/thirty years as they age then you’ve got me back on board.

As someone who has been married for half a century I can tell you that many changes occur in a relationship when you have a relationship of many years. As for sex we no longer swing from the chandelier or legs out of the car windows.

My two penn'orth goes that erotic writing is best served by the short story format. That's because sex, just like any other theme, can become extremely boring if harped on ad nauseam.

If you're going to trot out your thousand pages version of War and Peace, complete with some erotic episodes, that's fair enough...the latter will make for some light entertainment to distract from all that dreadful war, not to mention the ghastly peace...but it won't form the central interest of the work and it would be wrong to label it as erotic.

If the erotic content is to form that central interest, my feeling is that matters should be kept, whilst maintaining credibility, short and snappy. It's precisely that balancing act which shows whether an author has what it takes.

nickydra said:

My two penn'orth goes that erotic writing is best served by the short story format. That's because sex, just like any other theme, can become extremely boring if harped on ad nauseam.

...

If the erotic content is to form that central interest, my feeling is that matters should be kept, whilst maintaining credibility, short and snappy. It's precisely that balancing act which shows whether an author has what it takes.

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Except that erotic writing has an implicit aim (and with stroke stories, a more explicit aim) of getting someone off - so the traditional short story which is what, 5k -10k words? (someone, please correct me if I've got the length wrong**) might not actually be the ideal length because, you know, we've got to work up some arousal. So many Lit stories are a touch longer, precisely to enable a longer touch.

Novel length smut also works, because some readers do want world building, multiple characters to invest in, extended and continued immersion, along with their smut. Your blanket statement is dismissing many writers who do this very well. But I agree, too, that some writers need to learn when to stop.

So what you are saying is a personal preference and not a universal truth; and if you're about to start writing erotica, it might be wise to remember that you're deliberately targeting sexuality and arousal, and the usual "rules of good fiction" don't necessarily apply. You might indeed change your own mind when you get something out there and find, like many of us have, that, "You know, getting people off is quite satisfying, I think I'll give them longer..."

** that might have been better expressed, but you know what I mean.

Yes, I've already acknowledged it's my own personal take.

Multi-chaptered stuff, for me, has to be 'multi-interest' - where each section or chapter contains its own, independent focus of attention which differs from the one before. If you like, this would be a kind of 'collection' with each chapter being a stand-alone in all but name.

Yawns would otherwise begin to set in...

nickydra said:

Yes, I've already acknowledged it's my own personal take.

Multi-chaptered stuff, for me, has to be 'multi-interest' - where each section or chapter contains its own, independent focus of attention which differs from the one before. If you like, this would be a kind of 'collection' with each chapter being a stand-alone in all but name.

Yawns would otherwise begin to set in...

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Yes, that's the approach I took in my Arthurian myth novel - spruiked in my signature block - where each chapter was written to be self-contained but progresses the big-picture plot - a long story arc with multiple characters and multiple kinks.

Your collection idea is the way I did my Floating World series, where each one is stand-alone and with a small cast, and in that case with the same (male) protagonist in each part, so there a place of recognition for readers (and an easier write for me). Both approaches work quite nicely.

I guess I'm suggesting writers shouldn't limit themselves with pre-conceived notions of what might be "best" in terms of story length. Short stories absolutely have their place (one of my best pieces - my opinion, shared by others - is only 8k words; but by the same token a novella length work (33k) has a similar score and a similar number of votes (albeit a lower number of views). So there really is a place for every length story, and once you start writing, getting the feedback, getting the itch, you too might "write them just as long as they need to be, no more, no less."

I reckon everybody has got at least one novel length thing in them, regardless what they might think. The trick is to recognise when they're competent enough to write it - the "rubbish" factor you've rightly identified is too many people starting their big one way before they're ready.

But I'd lay a wager though, that if you get serious about writing, sooner or later, you won't be so dogmatic as to the ideal length. You'll try for the big one, I think all of the long-timers do (it might be their punishment, I don't know) .

How to read them? Do, or don't. If they suck you in, then do. If not, then don't. Writing is about the same. If the story wants to continue, groovy. If not, fine.

It's certainly a valid format. I just tend to think that if something can stand alone, you might as well allow it to do just that. You then have the benefit of a completely fresh start for characters, scenario and action and aren't hemmed in by previously stated 'facts' - what the movie people would call 'continuity'.

The closest I've come to this 'multi-chapter' idea so far is writing a series of very short stories, all loosely set against the geographical and social reality of my home town... but that's all they share; each story has its own 'Ding an sich'.

electricblue66 said:

the traditional short story which is what, 5k -10k words? (someone, please correct me if I've got the length wrong**)

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The traditional length of a short story topped at 20,000 words, which went out of style with the demise of the short story magazines in favor of the Readers Digest format and the average attention span decreased starting in the 1970s. For mainstream competition now, the top rarely goes above 5,000 words and, most often, has a 3,500-word cutoff.

storm_usmc said:

I expect to take a lot of criticism for this comment, but I really don't dig stories that have more than a few chapters. My longest is going to be four. I don't even read them if they go in teens. I find the writing and plot don't capture my interest as much. There are very few exceptions to this rule. Bosom buddies and Saturday Night School being the minor exceptions. Does anybody else feel that way? I see so many stories now that are so many chaptered and it drives me nuts.

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Totally agree, I'm the same way. I rarely read multi-part stories. In fact, when I do check a story, the first thing I do is check the length - multiple pages turn me away (I can handle two, maybe three) just as easily as multiple parts.

TriadWriter said:

Totally agree, I'm the same way. I rarely read multi-part stories. In fact, when I do check a story, the first thing I do is check the length - multiple pages turn me away (I can handle two, maybe three) just as easily as multiple parts.

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Yes indeed. I get the feeling that many people, probably a majority, follow your example.

And from an author's viewpoint isn't there something very satisfying about producing something which both ticks all the boxes and does it in a tight, controlled way?

Brevity for its own sake I can see as just as undesirable as undue length, but as an aim I think it has a lot going for it.

Much of significant 19th century Anglish literature was written as serials in weekly papers and magazines. Chapter after chapter of Dickens, Thackary, Twain, in the next issue. If it was good enough for Melville, Conan Doyle, and Hawthorne, it's good enough for LIT, hey? Much Golden Age SciFi was serialized. Many non-serial novels are chapter after chapter, some long, some short. Whew.

Some readers like vignettes, ultra-shorts, and shorts. Others like long long reads. Write what feels right.

nickydra said:

Yes indeed. I get the feeling that many people, probably a majority, follow your example.

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From the data sets available to writers there is zero way of knowing what readers do or don't do.

Every time this comes around (nickydra, you appear to be new on Lit - this is a regular and cyclic thing you could set your watch by), those who participate in the discussion usually split about 50/50, short vs long. But those who comment are only a tiny tiny fraction of the reader base, so it's hardly a control sample and can't be considered representative.

But, given the attention span of your "average" reader (if the literacy bell-curve, the internet overall and from what I see in the workplace is anything to go by, which I tend to think it is) then you're very possibly right. But what that short attention span says of someone's sexuality, if it's all over in two minutes and easily satisfied by junk porn, is a little sad, don't you think? Here in Australia, we call folk like that Victas - it's a two-stroke lawnmower brand.

Write them short, there are readers. Want a big fan-base? Write them long, you'll get followers. Surely you've noticed by now that the Top Lists are dominated by the multi-chapter offerings (which possibly is the only empirical proof of what the mass of readers want, if there is any).

It's a waste of time basing your writing strategies on what you think readers want - whatever you do, you'll be half right, half wrong. Start publishing though, and you'll find out, for your own little place in the sun. And that's the brightest place there is, where readers read what you want to write.

Get on with it, is all I can say. So far, I'm seeing "expert knowledge" based on personal likes and dislikes, but not much else. I look forward to reading your crisp, tight little pieces .

electricblue66 said:

the Top Lists are dominated by the multi-chapter offerings (which possibly is the only empirical proof of what the mass of readers want, if there is any).

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Indicative of what voting readers want, not "the mass of readers." The data clearly shows (to the extent that the View numbers have any validity) that "the mass of readers" at Literotica neither vote nor comment.

KeithD said:

Indicative of what voting readers want, not "the mass of readers." The data clearly shows (to the extent that the View numbers have any validity) that "the mass of readers" at Literotica neither vote nor comment.

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Yes, I'll agree that clarification - the voting readers are a tiny fraction of the "lumpenreader" - to steal a term from Marx (Karl, not Groucho).

KeithD said:

Indicative of what voting readers want, not "the mass of readers." The data clearly shows (to the extent that the View numbers have any validity) that "the mass of readers" at Literotica neither vote nor comment.

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Readers who neither vote nor comment leave no trace no information, and therefore is of no value for a writer here. While in commercial market a sell is a sell regardless of the opinion of the reader afterwards (well, as long we look at singular isolated work) here a view at best helps the site as a whole by bringing adds revenue.

View count is at most a measure of how efficient clickbait the title/category/blurb etc surface information was. If there was a measure of reasonably confirmed full reads (imperfect, but useful assessment could be done, at least in theory, by gathering behavioral session data, even relatively trivial for multi-page stories: consequential requests of all pages, especially with intervals within range of believable reading speeds), it could be a different story.

Believing that significant share of views on later chapters coincide with full reads on previous chapters is the closest approximation of the true readership authors here can access. It can still be seriously flawed, there may still be large enough blind request counts on all parts. Statistical data imply that is unlikely, but at least in theory each chapter may have unique set of viewers.

While judging and even adjusting one's own work accordingly to discernible reactions is at least conceivable; as it is, any attempt to please imaginative anonymous and silent "mass of readers" has to be seen as borderline absurd endeavor.

I usually read standalone stories, because I like to complete a story in a discrete period of time, and I seldom give myself hours of time to read Literotica stories.

But this is where chaptered stories come in handy. If the chapters are reasonable lengths --2 or 3 pages or so, then I can digest the story in easy chunks rather than having to confront 12+ pages. I can finish a chapter in a reasonable amount of time and come back to the story later.

There definitely is a place for stories published in separate chapters. I've done it, twice, and I think it worked in both cases.

LupusDei said:

Readers who neither vote nor comment leave no trace no information, and therefore is of no value for a writer here. While in commercial market a sell is a sell regardless of the opinion of the reader afterwards (well, as long we look at singular isolated work) here a view at best helps the site as a whole by bringing adds revenue.

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A read on a free-use site is a sale in that realm. It's not quantifiable by statistics available, but it's still a sale. If it's a good sale, the reader will read something by that author again. That too isn't quantifiable by statistics available, but it doesn't make it any less of a good sale. The problem is those who just gotta have statistics to use, whether they are available or not. That's not a problem for me. I spend the time others put to that to writing the next story (which then makes money in the market version). I'll leave it to others who think that they can figure out something meaningful from the largely unmeaningful statistics available on Literotica.

On the issue here, I read almost nothing on Literotica (because I'm here to write, not to read), but, if I did, I wouldn't read anything more than three Lit. pages unless I was given a good reason to want to, and even then, if it was a multiple chapter work, I'd check how long it was and whether it was finished--and if it wasn't finished, there's no way anyone could make me start reading it. Yes, I know that such endless serialization was common in Victorian England, but that isn't an art that is mastered on Literotica on more a rare occasion. Here it's taken more as license to ramble, be verbose, and lose control of the plotline. Sure, it probably is done by some here--but I'll never know because I won't devote the time needed to follow it.

LupusDei said:

Statistical data imply that is unlikely, but at least in theory each chapter may have unique set of viewers.

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Ain't that the truth! When you have a clearly labelled Part 9 of something that pulls down 1600 views in a month, followed by Part 10 which does 2100 views in a week, you've got to scratch your head as to consistent reader behaviour, lack thereof. Continuity and story arc doesn't seem to matter to these folk. Jim Morrison got it right, "People are strange."

Emirus said:

I haven’t read the last three chapters of Mary and Alvin and I must admit I feel guilty about it because I’ve been enjoying it as I enjoyed Fall and Rise. I thought it was going to meander along but if you are going to continue over the next twenty/thirty years as they age then you’ve got me back on board.

As someone who has been married for half a century I can tell you that many changes occur in a relationship when you have a relationship of many years. As for sex we no longer swing from the chandelier or legs out of the car windows.

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Thank you, I am glad that you are still on board.

nickydra said:

My two penn'orth goes that erotic writing is best served by the short story format. That's because sex, just like any other theme, can become extremely boring if harped on ad nauseam.

If you're going to trot out your thousand pages version of War and Peace, complete with some erotic episodes, that's fair enough...the latter will make for some light entertainment to distract from all that dreadful war, not to mention the ghastly peace...but it won't form the central interest of the work and it would be wrong to label it as erotic.

If the erotic content is to form that central interest, my feeling is that matters should be kept, whilst maintaining credibility, short and snappy. It's precisely that balancing act which shows whether an author has what it takes.

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Some people like quickies, some people prefer sex with their long term partners.

Some people like both.