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Please Explain Loving Wives

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John988

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:) I don't think that there is an explanation for Loving Wives - not one that makes sense.
 
John988 said:
I swear that every time Loving Wives is mentioned, someone talks about how hostile the readership is. Can someone explain this to me? Like, what actually goes on over there?
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Ohhhhh it’s a lengthy explanation. Go there, read the comments on some of th stories. Realize that if you submit a story there you will experience for yourself the sheer joy of a schizophrenic audience.
 
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John988 said:
Huh... well... ok. Odd response, but sometimes things are odd themselves lol

I'll go give it a perusal, then. "A schizophrenic audience" sounds like it could be entertaining!
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It’s entertaining if you don’t write LW stories. It’s entertaining if yo write there knowing what to expect. It’s not so entertaining if you go in and write their unaware of the hostility that exists from some readers if you write a story they don’t like. Some of them take it personally.
 
John988 said:
I swear that every time Loving Wives is mentioned, someone talks about how hostile the readership is. Can someone explain this to me? Like, what actually goes on over there?
Click to expand...

Here's the deal with Loving Wives.

On the story home page, which lists all the categories of stories on this site, Loving Wives is described this way: "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more."

Seems simple? No.

A significant and vociferous readership has taken residence at this category, and it loudly protests stories that exactly fit this category description: hot wives who have sex with men not their husbands and get away with it. These readers hate these stories and believe wives who have sex outside the marriage should be punished. When they do not, they leave ugly comments with the authors and they bomb the stories with 1s. That's why Loving Wives stories have by far the lowest average score.

Loving Wives is one of the more popular categories of stories in terms of number of readers, but it's also full of angry readers who are highly motivated to bomb stories they don't like. So beware.
 
Speculating, but it seems to be a bit of a battle over what the category is.

You've got a bunch of very different fetishes that all end up grouped together with no good way to sort them. People read a cuckold story when they are looking for a hot wife or swinger story, then they get all pissy that it wasn't what they expected. Then the cuckold crowd sees their pissy comments and retaliates by posting pissy comments in other stories. This circles around endlessly until the whole category is covered in pissy comments. Makes the water sports crowd happy I suppose.

💦💧💦😰🚻
 
John988 said:
I swear that every time Loving Wives is mentioned, someone talks about how hostile the readership is. Can someone explain this to me? Like, what actually goes on over there?
Click to expand...

Loving Wives is not a category that I read nor one that I would naturally write in. The category doesn’t appeal to me. Also having, over a period of time, read comments about the readers in that category I don’t think I’ll attempt to change anything. I’m not that courageous.
 
ChasingAnna said:
Speculating, but it seems to be a bit of a battle over what the category is.

You've got a bunch of very different fetishes that all end up grouped together with no good way to sort them. People read a cuckold story when they are looking for a hot wife or swinger story, then they get all pissy that it wasn't what they expected. Then the cuckold crowd sees their pissy comments and retaliates by posting pissy comments in other stories. This circles around endlessly until the whole category is covered in pissy comments. Makes the water sports crowd happy I suppose.

💦💧💦😰🚻
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it's not quite as simple as they accidentally stumble into a cuckold story. Authors have tried to be clear in the titles and/or the tags...and even have gone so far as to put a warning up front before the story even begins. It appears that these attempts only serve as red flags to a herd of angry bulls. No, it's a cult...and we all know how evil and insidious cults are :eek:
 
John988 said:
I swear that every time Loving Wives is mentioned, someone talks about how hostile the readership is. Can someone explain this to me? Like, what actually goes on over there?
Click to expand...

Here's a LW story for you. My wife read it for the first time Sat night and I could hear her laughing like crazy. Which was funny cause I didn't remember any humour in the story. Turns out she was reading the comments.

https://www.literotica.com/s/transplant

Actually I think Chloe had it right. It's a schizophrenic setup and the readers are battling constantly. The comments have driven away many of the old time authors fed up with the insults.

Before I posted stories I even got death threats and F.O emails for just commenting.

I truly believe the site likes it because it generates so many readers and comments. Good for the search engines.

BUT if you take it all with a grain of salt it can be quite entertaining. Many times the comments are better than the story.
 
Schizophrenic? I think that's a good description. Half of the basement-dwellers there expect wife-cheats-wife-is-punished-husband-gets-better and will flay alive anybody who deviates from that. The other half demands he/she-cheated-and-got-away-unscathed and will flay any deviation from that.

Then tag on the fact that some people there get volcanically incensed at the mere portrayal of any such behaviour - "How dare you write such filth!" It's like they think you were trying to seduce their own wife or something.

I've had a couple of stories which could have (should have?) been submitted there but everything said about the slime-throwing nature of some of the readers (and it only takes some) seems about correct. Life's too short - even for a cult (another good description, BTW).
 
TarnishedPenny said:
I've had a couple of stories which could have (should have?) been submitted there but everything said about the slime-throwing nature of some of the readers (and it only takes some) seems about correct. Life's too short - even for a cult (another good description, BTW).
Click to expand...

As bad as the scores are, as bad as some of the feedback is, there are some good stories in LW. It's rare for a story there to reach 4.5, but when it does, it's likely to be better than a 4.5 story in any other category.
 
NotWise said:
As bad as the scores are, as bad as some of the feedback is, there are some good stories in LW. It's rare for a story there to reach 4.5, but when it does, it's likely to be better than a 4.5 story in any other category.
Click to expand...

I put one in there - an honest effort, not just something to troll - because I wanted to see what would happen and if I had the nerve to stand up to it.

https://www.literotica.com/s/wayward-ellen

Some spoilers so that the mindset over there is clear: The cheating wife is literally / physically punished by being spanked by her husband. Problem is, she finds she likes it. There is make-up sex and a happy ending (for the moment at least). Yet most of the audience (but not all) still didn't like it.

It was like a descent into the maelström but sort of thrilling anyway. I'll probably do a sequel later this year.
 
NotWise said:
As bad as the scores are, as bad as some of the feedback is, there are some good stories in LW. It's rare for a story there to reach 4.5, but when it does, it's likely to be better than a 4.5 story in any other category.
Click to expand...

One cut at this is that there are 38 stories in Loving Wives that have an Editor's Choice Green E (with Laurel, the editor, having set what should be posted to LW). (For comparison, there are 98 Green E stories in Romance.) Only six of those stories are currently hot (rating 4.5 or above). Only two of them have both a Green E and have placed in a contest. And only one of those has a Green E, is Hot, and has placed in a contest.
 
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KeithD said:
One cut at this is that there are 38 stories in Loving Wives that have an Editor's Choice Green E (with Laurel, the editor, having set what should be posted to LW). (For comparison, there are 98 Green E stories in Romance.) Only six of those stories are currently hot (rating 4.5 or above). Only two of them have both a Green E and have placed in a contest. And only one of those has a Green E, is Hot, and has placed in a contest.
Click to expand...

No offence to you or to Laurel, but that speaks more to Laurel's tastes than anything else, does it not?
 
I have 26 LW stories and three that could be there but are in other categories. Some I have the voting turned off. Others have it on. None are higher than a 4.21, most are in the high to mid 3s.

I have written all kinds of loving wives stories...

Cheating wife
Loving wife who has sex with other men with her husbands consent
Shared wife, where the husband and wife have a threesome with another man.
Burn the Bitch, where cheating wife is kicked to the curb
And a bunch of others

I even have one where the husband kills the wife and her lovers

There are three prominent factions in LW...

1. Burn the Bitch, the most vicious of the three
2. Cheating wives, they like wives that cheat on their husbands, making them cuckolds.
3. Sharing wives the kindest of the three.

There are several other groups but they are small by comparison to the three mentioned here.
 
My husband likes to watch me fuck

I have not submitted anything on LW but I am a loving wife and when I first got on Literotica I was planning to write about how my husband and I got into the practice of sharing me.

I posted a few comments on various threads and started getting hostile PM and a few nasty comments. I think the hate comes from insecure men. They can’t understand a real man like my husband Carl that knows that I love him and will never leave him. Carl understands the difference between making love and fucking. He likes to watch me fuck. What real man doesn’t like to watch videos of a woman being fucked? So being right there in the room and sharing in the fun is just that much more exciting.

But for some weak and insecure men the idea of a woman that loves sex just as much as men love sex is too intimidating. One very insecure man even had nasty things to say about me because I commented about menstruation in something I posted. From his viewpoint no woman would dare to speak of something as nasty as her period so he imagines that I must be a guy. So, to your question, where does the hate come from? I think it is guys that are insecure about the size of their penis. I think they should get out their magnifying glass and their masturbation tweezers and have at it. They need a release somehow.

But just ignore them. Like all negative energy people their comments are insignificant.
 
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shelly2inme said:
I have not submitted anything on LW but I am a loving wife and when I first got on Literotica I was planning to write about how my husband and I got into the practice of sharing me.

I posted a few comments on various threads and started getting hostile PM and a few nasty comments. I think the hate comes from insecure men. They can’t understand a real man like my husband Carl that knows that I love him and will never leave him. Carl understands the difference between making love and fucking. He likes to watch me fuck. What real man doesn’t like to watch videos of a woman being fucked? So being right there in the room and sharing in the fun is just that much more exciting.

But for some weak and insecure men the idea of a woman that loves sex just as much as men love sex is too intimidating. One very insecure man even had nasty things to say about me because I commented about menstruation in something I posted. From his viewpoint no woman would dare to speak of something as nasty as her period so he imagines that I must be a guy. So, to your question, where does the hate come from? I think it is guys that are insecure about the size of their penis. I think they should get out their magnifying glass and their masturbation tweezers and have at it. They need a release somehow.

But just ignore them. Like all negative energy people their comments are insignificant.
Click to expand...

I think you are right. It's understandable that many people would not find the shared wife fantasy appealing, but the level of vitriol suggests that some men find this practice, and perhaps the idea more generally of a woman having full control over her sexuality, threatening.
 
shelly2inme said:
I have not submitted anything on LW but I am a loving wife and when I first got on Literotica I was planning to write about how my husband and I got into the practice of sharing me.

I posted a few comments on various threads and started getting hostile PM and a few nasty comments. I think the hate comes from insecure men. They can’t understand a real man like my husband Carl that knows that I love him and will never leave him. Carl understands the difference between making love and fucking. He likes to watch me fuck. What real man doesn’t like to watch videos of a woman being fucked? So being right there in the room and sharing in the fun is just that much more exciting.

But for some weak and insecure men the idea of a woman that loves sex just as much as men love sex is too intimidating. One very insecure man even had nasty things to say about me because I commented about menstruation in something I posted. From his viewpoint no woman would dare to speak of something as nasty as her period so he imagines that I must be a guy. So, to your question, where does the hate come from? I think it is guys that are insecure about the size of their penis. I think they should get out their magnifying glass and their masturbation tweezers and have at it. They need a release somehow.

But just ignore them. Like all negative energy people their comments are insignificant.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much my take on it as well. Plus I think there are those readers who are secretly excited by the stories and then feel ashamed that as a 'real man' they shouldn't be aroused by a cheating woman who has fun. After all they have never made a woman enjoy sex. "By golly, it's her DUTY to submit to my vile and disgusting desires, only a harlot would enjoy what I do to her." And, on the other side of the coin, only a sick weirdo would enjoy reading about it. "I must let people know that I hated it or they might think I'm not a 'real' man."

Or, as I've often wondered, there's some cultish church in some backwater who's minister/leader demands that his congregation troll the stories.
 
I would think that the story parameters to "Loving Wives" means essentially that. There should not be any cheating of any kind for these characters, even if essentially the wife is doing this stuff for her husband. But if you make a story about the wife getting BDSMed by another dude and she is enjoying such things, you're treading on very thin ice.
 
John988 said:
I swear that every time Loving Wives is mentioned, someone talks about how hostile the readership is. Can someone explain this to me? Like, what actually goes on over there?
Click to expand...

Short version?

Imagine that, in the Non-consent section, two popular story sub-genres were "Man has sex with a woman with dubious consent, then either faces the consequence of his actions or has a change of heart and ends up in a loving, consensual relationship with her" and "Man has sex with a woman with dubious consent, then kills her and dismembers her corpse, with the process described in loving detail".

Oh, and sometimes you wouldn't know which kind of story you were reading until page 3 of the 4th chapter.

You'd end up with a lot of angry comments from people who were fundamentally repulsed by the story they were reading and wanted to share their negative feeling with you, and "Hey, that's my fetish" or "But that fits with the category's description!" probably wouldn't cut it.

On a pretty basic level, LW is a struggle between people who want to read interesting stories that involve extra-marital sex (often as a source of conflict in the story), and people who want to masturbate to particular fetishes.

Longer version?

Porn-without-plot "stories" that have no purpose beyond masturbatory fodder for someone who precisely shares your kinks is going to get a poor reception in LW, especially the further to the end of the swinging -> sharing -> cuckoldry spectrum you go and the smaller the audience who shares your specific kinks is.

Masturbatory fodder with a BDSM focus (especially hardcore emotional sadomasochism), which has male/male content, or which is focused on a specific fetish, is likely to get savaged, because Lit has categories for those things, and it's not LW, so (a) a large chunk of the LW audience isn't looking for those things and may or may not be actively repulsed by them, and (b) the people who are looking for those things aren't necessarily reading LW.

The more a story comes off as a cry for help, the more of a negative reaction you'll receive. If, to someone who doesn't share your fetish, the story reads like a husband trapped in an abusive relationship with a sociopath who is, at best, mildly fond of the husband she has no respect for, while he's turning to the reader and saying "Suffering shows how much you love someone, right? Deep down, we have something special, don't we?", then you're going to get negative feedback from people who have sufficiently bought into your work on a narrative level that they sympathize with your characters, but whose reaction (since they don't share your fetish) is orthogonal to what you were going for.

If your work is a thinly-veiled essay on how (a) white men are inferior beings fit only to work to support their wives and those wives' black lovers, (b) women are naturally more sexual beings then men, so the natural order is for wives to take lovers, and/or (c) the truest form of love is a master/slave relationship in which the slave-husband takes his rightful place sucking his wife's lovers' cocks (posted outside of BDSM), then you will receive comments that are not-so-thinly-veiled essays on how you're full of shit.

Stories that are actual stories will do varying degrees of well in LW.

Yeah, you'll probably get negative feedback no matter what you do, since LW has a more-engaged readership than other categories. However, if you have a plot and characters that make sense, a higher percentage of the negative feedback will be less "This story is a piece of shit" and more "This story is secretly a tragedy, because the natural consequences of the actions in this story would be X, Y and Z" and "I disagree with the actions the character chose to take on a personal level" sort of things... which, honestly, I'd consider to be gratifying as an author, because they're implicitly buying into the reality of your work and engaging with it on a narrative level at that point.
 
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Valint said:
Short version?

Imagine that, in the Non-consent section, two popular story sub-genres were "Man has sex with a woman with dubious consent, then either faces the consequence of his actions or has a change of heart and ends up in a loving, consensual relationship with her" and "Man has sex with a woman with dubious consent, then kills her and dismembers her corpse, with the process described in loving detail".

Oh, and sometimes you wouldn't know which kind of story you were reading until page 3 of the 4th chapter.

You'd end up with a lot of angry comments from people who were fundamentally repulsed by the story they were reading and wanted to share their negative feeling with you, and "Hey, that's my fetish" or "But that fits with the category's description!" probably wouldn't cut it.

On a pretty basic level, LW is a struggle between people who want to read interesting stories that involve extra-marital sex (often as a source of conflict in the story), and people who want to masturbate to particular fetishes.

Longer version?

Porn-without-plot "stories" that have no purpose beyond masturbatory fodder for someone who precisely shares your kinks is going to get a poor reception in LW, especially the further to the end of the swinging -> sharing -> cuckoldry spectrum you go and the smaller the audience who shares your specific kinks is.

Masturbatory fodder with a BDSM focus (especially hardcore emotional sadomasochism), which has male/male content, or which is focused on a specific fetish, is likely to get savaged, because Lit has categories for those things, and it's not LW, so (a) a large chunk of the LW audience isn't looking for those things and may or may not be actively repulsed by them, and (b) the people who are looking for those things aren't necessarily reading LW.

The more a story comes off as a cry for help, the more of a negative reaction you'll receive. If, to someone who doesn't share your fetish, the story reads like a husband trapped in an abusive relationship with a sociopath who is, at best, mildly fond of the husband she has no respect for, while he's turning to the reader and saying "Suffering shows how much you love someone, right? Deep down, we have something special, don't we?", then you're going to get negative feedback from people who have sufficiently bought into your work on a narrative level that they sympathize with your characters, but whose reaction (since they don't share your fetish) is orthogonal to what you were going for.

If your work is a thinly-veiled essay on how (a) white men are inferior beings fit only to work to support their wives and those wives' black lovers, (b) women are naturally more sexual beings then men, so the natural order is for wives to take lovers, and/or (c) the truest form of love is a master/slave relationship in which the slave-husband takes his rightful place sucking his wife's lovers' cocks (posted outside of BDSM), then you will receive comments that are not-so-thinly-veiled essays on how you're full of shit.

Stories that are actual stories will do varying degrees of well in LW.

Yeah, you'll probably get negative feedback no matter what you do, since LW has a more-engaged readership than other categories. However, if you have a plot and characters that make sense, a higher percentage of the negative feedback will be less "This story is a piece of shit" and more "This story is secretly a tragedy, because the natural consequences of the actions in this story would be X, Y and Z" and "I disagree with the actions the character chose to take on a personal level" sort of things... which, honestly, I'd consider to be gratifying as an author, because they're implicitly buying into the reality of your work and engaging with it on a narrative level at that point.
Click to expand...

Damn, that was good. One of the best explanations I've ever seen. ;)
 
TarnishedPenny said:
No offence to you or to Laurel, but that speaks more to Laurel's tastes than anything else, does it not?
Click to expand...

As the only one seeing everything go by, yes--which is more than anyone else can say. And, as I noted. She's the one who defined what LW was supposed to be here. She controls the standard of what fulfills the category.
 
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