Unplanned and Unexpected D/s

Somebody mentioned somewhere as a bit of an aside that it's disrespectful to submit without consent. It got me thinking.

I have mentioned it before that I can be a bit of a doormat. I roll over very easily and I'm a people pleaser, and this trait of mine isn't restricted only to an established D/s relationship.

This has lead on a few occasions to a situation where I have realized at some point that I have a very D/s-ish relationship with someone, even though we have never talked about it.

I think the clearest example of this was with a friend years ago. He lived just two blocks away from me, so we spent a lot of time together and got along really well, but never did anything sexual whatsoever. We talked about BDSM a lot, because he was pretty new to it back then, but I guess despite our friendship we never had that spark to even try doing anything sexual together.

Everything was good and dandy between us, until one evening he texted me and asked me to do something that I couldn't do -- it was nothing weird or sexual, I just couldn't do it then. I felt absolutely gutted and like I had failed big time. That's when I realized that little by little our friendship had taken a D/s twist, and looking back it had been going on for a long time. He had very rarely asked me to do anything for him, but I had eagerly jumped on every opportunity I got to please him and, yes, to submit to him without him even asking.

I talked about it with him, and he hadn't noticed it either until after I brought it up, but then it became clear as day to him as well. It messed with our friendship a lot and made things weird for a long time.

After that experience with my friend I've been more guarded, and there's really been only one person after him that I've reacted to in the same way. With this person I noticed my tendency to submit and look for opportunities to submit, and my tendency to think of him as a dominant person. I brought it up with him before anything really happened, despite feeling very weird about doing it myself. I'm not necessarily the strongest of communicators, but I'm glad I bit the bullet and talked about it with him. I also told him that me bringing it up didn't mean that I expected him to do anything about it, because ultimately it was all in my head. Being upfront about the issue was a good thing. Friendship saved, or something.

So, does this ring any bells with anybody or am I the only one to experience something like this? How have you handled those situations? For the D types, how do you feel about somebody totally non-consensually submitting to you like that?

There are a lot of people who can't say "no". I don't like saying it but I will. It all depends on the situation.

One example is a former coworker of a friend of mine. In general I don't like the woman. Personality differences I suppose. But she is elderly and has no one to help her out most of the time. The place she lives in has limited parking so she had to sell her car. And she's not on a bus route.

My friend used to drive her places but her car is getting old, isn't always reliable and her son often just takes it. So I got to where I drive the two of them wherever they need to go. But sometimes it's all I can do to put up with this woman. My friend is starting to feel the same. I won't get into all of her issues here but she is flat out hard to deal with.

I just figure in her case I am doing a good deed and it will all be over in an hour or three.

One of the things that has consistently tickled people "in the know" that also know me at all well has been my insistence that I am not really a Dominant.

Several years ago (at least a decade, I think) someone snapped a picture of me and a friend of mine shooting the shit while burning a smoke out on the patio. I'm not really all that big. At 5'6", I'm well below average height for men for this area. And at the time I was only about 180lbs. The buddy of mine, "Big Drew" is 6'6" and tips the scale somewhere over 400lbs. In the picture, I had hopped up on a brick planter and my feet didn't reach the ground. Drew, on the other hand, was leaning against it with his feet stretched out in front of him. We looked like a Father and Son on a park bench while the son was a toddler.

Now, here's the thing... In the picture, based just on the relative sizes, one would think that I was the toddler. Until you study the body language.

What was actually happening was a bit like a father giving a son some advice. But, it was the other way around. Drew had come to me with a problem he was trying to work out and I was walking him through what he needed to do.

One comment that both of our wives made was that it was so strange when they realized just how much physically smaller I am since I always seem so much larger based on the force of my personality until something like that happens to give an outside physical point of reference.

Now, here's something to twist your noodle. Drew is not in any way, shape, form, or fashion submissive. Not to anyone. Except me. And if he were here, he would tell you that straight up. (Although he would squirm a little bit about the last and insist "it's only because he makes fucking sense.")


*shrug*


I don't know.


My point is that I've kicked my tin can down the side of quite a few gravelled roads and from all I've seen there are certain aspects of our personalities that are just going to out in social dynamics whether sex is even a question or not. I don't really find it all that unusual that submissive people pleaser with that component in their personality is going to find themselves driven to submit to strong personalities in purely platonic social interactions. Nor do I find it all that unusual that certain strong personalities are going to feel a subliminal need to force complete and full capitulation from others in purely platonic social interactions. Not if, in either case, that is truly who they are in their blood and bone and not just a mask they wear in the bedroom.


As far as consensual...


I don't know. I don't know that I had ever considered that consent had to be quite so contractual outside of physical dominance and submission. If touch is at all involved, then yes. I, personally, feel that consent must be clearly obtained. Call it one of my hard limits if you must. Discussions consisting of sex, politics, or religion should, I think, require some mark of consent from all parties, but I may just be showing my age and culture there.

But, giving someone mental and emotional dominance over you without first clearly delineating that is what you are doing?

Off the top of my head, I think if you are doing it consciously, then yes, you have the obligation to make sure they understand just what sort of responsibility you are expecting them to assume and give them the opportunity to say "uh, no. I'm not ready to be taking on that responsibility."

In the case you cited, it seems to have grown organically from who the two of you are in your blood and bone without either of you being aware. And once you became aware, you called his attention to it so that he could also become aware. I think that was both understandable and that you dealt with it in the best of all possible manners. The fairest for both of you as well.


I understand that it made the friendship awkward for a bit. That, too, I think is perfectly understandable. Both of you were wrestling with your own natures, the emotional involvement, and the mental anguish of trying to regulate what had grown from what you both had thought you were and wanted the relationship to be. All perfectly logical. And frankly, as a self-identified submissive people pleaser whom I would imagine to be much more emotionally driven than logically, I for one applaud you for pressing yourself to such a well-reasoned approach.


For myself, I've pretty well long had to come to grips with the notion that I can be more than a little... well, let's just say I can get a tad grumpy when I don't get my way. And I've long since made myself step off and recognize that whether I do actually know better and have the person's best interests in mind, everybody does have the right to cobble their own road to Hell with their own hands any way they see fit.

Typically, beyond that I don't too much worry about it until and unless they start knocking on my door or ringing my phone for piddly shit they should be able to manage without my input. And considering my "don't give a fuck" fashion sense, if they start asking my opinion of clothing choices, I will immediately tell them "um, no. I don't want this responsibility."


Any road, even I'm not sure if I actually addressed the point at hand at this point. And if I haven't by now, I'm probably not gonna. So, I'm gonna mosey on and see what else there is to Puck up and let somebody no doubt smarter than me take the floor on this one and try to clear up whatever I mucked up.


But, best wishes for peace in your head and heart for a better tomorrow.

Ayup Seela I can relate. Oh I can relate. Now in my defense... it started before I ever identified as a submissive. I can safely say that every single relationship I've ever had in my life has had D/ s elements to it, whether the guy or I understood it or not.
That said, I've mentioned a few times that my Sir has known me since college. 5 years after that I asked him outright to be my Dominant and he spazzed out. Saying it did not go well is an understatement. Fast forward 9 more years and last summer he just blurted out " yeah, I can be your Sir." To which my brain malfunctioned and short circuited because I couldn't imagine he had just said that. Hell I thought he had forgotten.
After a few months I asked him WHY. He said " you told me all those years ago that we already were just without the name, and I didn't want to face it. But you are right... you've always been this way. We've always been this way. This is just the relationship we have. Nothing wrong with calling a Spade a Spade."

So in the beginning it was unintended, then rejected when acknowledged. In the end accepted as fact.


Now that I'm self aware would I? I think there is no way for me not to be me. If someone brings out that part of my personality I'm not going to pretend not to be me. That doesn't mean I'm gonna sit next to your chair with my head on your knee looking up at you googly eyes. But am I going to ask your opinion about tough situations I face and ask if I can get you a drink while I'm up... yeah... that's just me.

Angedesoleil said:

~snip~ That doesn't mean I'm gonna sit next to your chair with my head on your knee looking up at you googly eyes. ~snip~

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I see what you did there. Behave.

I have to go back and read later, but yes.
2 ways. One is basic Co-dependency, like Seela mentioned, is not exclusive to D/s.
I was co-dependent with my ex and many other for years. It had nothing to do with sex.

Like Seela, I had a friend that I knew for years. Talked to about this. He said he was a Dom. No. He wasn’t. At all. Nothing about him was dominant except for his intellect, but he’s not as smart as me.
I told him my feelings had changed for a mutual friend who was treating my friend badly. I think my exact words were, “I hate that fucker.”
He told me that he would rather my feelings were different, but in a really strange way. Not wistful, more like, change your feelings.

I told him off, of course. He’d RATHER???
Kiss. My. Ass.
It felt like he was feeling me out to see if I’d listen.
It was creepy.

Thanks for replying everybody!


Farawyn's post brings up a huge difference to what I've experienced. She felt like her friend was gauging her submissiveness and doing so without asking her if it's okay. My experience has been just ending up feeling and acting submissive to someone without either of us actively trying to achieve that.

I wonder how I'd react to someone trying to make me submit in the BDSM sense without getting at least some kind of an okay from me before that. I really don't know.


I think these dynamics that evolve kind of naturally are really interesting also when it comes to them leading to sexual play. In BDSM people are always told to negotiate and seek active and informed consent, and to do it as equals before any power exchange.

So those who have experienced this kind of naturally evolved D/s dynamic, how have you negotiated within the dynamic? Or have you? Do you think it is necessary to address the on-going power exchange and does it make negotiating play different from a situation where you're both equal?

Well, that was a fun week last year for me, LOL. Because it was something Id spent time learning about myself for over a decade as it related to good healthy relationships and such... I felt pretty comfortable explaining it. When he blurted out "I can be your Sir" as much as yeah I jumped on that lickety split... I also then the next day backed down and said ok ... now we need to talk.... you need to understand stuff and understand you and yeah.
So I spent a solid week writing things and sending resources as his time permitted to be sure he understood and try to elicit him to take time and understand the wide world or at least get a pretty decent snapshot.
At the end of the week when I had to fly home I was pretty crushed that he said "I dont feel like I understand anything right now any more than I did a week ago... but I really dont want to. Point is we've always been this way so... it's just that."
The downside for me and why I'm here and why I have a Sir but I dont really is that what we are is yes... natural and yes, real and yes important and yes just exists.... but at the end of the day it is real because me... because of who and how I am. It is real because of who and how he is... but it is a him he doesnt chose to understand or actively function inside of beyond a very specific set point. He is my reality check. My rubric. My designated bullshit caller outer. The one that keeps me from doing the stupid shit I do.
But his lack of interest in learning anything in using anything in growing anything ... that saddens me deeply.

TLDR... yes, I TRIED to negotiate the dynamic... I felt it was necessary... tried and failed. LOL. *waves white flag*

We are who we are naturally. I find that I am submissive regardless of sexual interest to those I respect, male or female. I treat them differently, because I value their opinion. Maybe. I haven't fully thought out "why" - I just know that I've recognized it. I'm fully capable of being in charge when that's my place, and this is more than demurring to their position. It's a feeling. I feel submissive in general, not "you're now my Dom".

I don't think it's necessary to have a Sir/DD who is in "the know" when the dynamic is working out. Yes, it's nice to have it all in place and agreed to... but that, IMO, isn't necessary unless you're doing a scene. The guy who is my DD doesn't consider himself a Dom, wasn't sure if he would ever. But. We just started as friends and it evolved. It's a part of him whether he recognized it or not, he hasn't read up on what his duties are. It just is. I think he's amazing.

barefootgirl69 said:

But. We just started as friends and it evolved. It's a part of him whether he recognized it or not, he hasn't read up on what his duties are. It just is. I think he's amazing.

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when you find that person, treasure them above everything. I've recently lost that kind of gal (ghosting, not death or anything). starting as friends, evolving, not really having duties and such but just falling into D/s in an amazing way. I wish you two the best, very seriously.

I need to read through this more. I am pretty much giving in all of my friendships. I really struggle with saying no. This is definitely something I want to think about a lot more.

formertroll said:

when you find that person, treasure them above everything. I've recently lost that kind of gal (ghosting, not death or anything). starting as friends, evolving, not really having duties and such but just falling into D/s in an amazing way. I wish you two the best, very seriously.

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Thank you.